Daily resource management is bad

I am extremely disappointed that daily resource management has returned more prominently. Over the editions, I've found daily resources to be an annoying mechanic that arbitrarily forces the DM to challenge the party with a certain number of encounters per day. They are also the principal reason for the "5 minute workday" because a lot of people would prefer to get their interesting abilities back rather than sit around casting magic missile the rest of the day.

4e made great progress with this by introducing encounter-based resource management, but unfortunately daily powers were still around.

Why now, do we have even more daily resources that before? Why did you bring back daily resources for the fighter? Why Vancian magic?

Please WotC, don't throw away the progress that's been made by making the game even more daily dependant.
I agree completely.

WotC wants the encounters of D&D Next be faster, and game sessions have more content, but ressources are scarce and force more downtime...
I think that the concern regarding a wealth of Encounter abilities- with few if any Daily abilities- is that the at-wills won't be used as often.  People will run through their encounter abilities first, and only afterwards will they start using their basic attacks and cantrips/orisons. 

  But I agree.  Daily resources are the major cause of downtime issues (not HP) and encourage players to either play very reservedly, or "nuke" in any given encounter. 

  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.

  I think X times per encounter mechanic, drawing from a selection of abilities, would be the best middle ground. Allowing people to use the same ability back to back if they wanted, while limiting the number of encounter powers they can use per encounter, and reducing the need for extended rests.

   Daily rests could be when the Wizard/Clerics choose their spells for the day, but they refresh them per encounter, rather than per day. 
I would suggest an adventure design in which combat happens on the players terms or the monsters.  There a lot of room for that kind of thing, even when the resources are depleted one can still wrangle for Advantage and  improvised traps/distractions take on a lot of importance.  Expanded ritualization and utilitization of magic would address much of this, I was wondering about Ray of Frost for freezing water to create bridges for example.

In the combat area, i hear your concern however.  I like that we have hit dice, and i want to see them powering blood magic.  I'd like to see a backgrounds like a berserker or a blood mage who can sacrifice hit dice in a short rest to recall a daily resource like a fighter surge or a spell.
I too do not like the increase in daily-resource-management elements in the playtest.

The beauty of 4e was the reduction (unfortunately, not the removal) of daily resources. This beauty was shadowed by the overabundance of encounter powers that could add choice paralysis to the event, especially given the ease with which some classes could have minor, move, and standard encounter powers to draw from. These combined to create long, drawn-out combats.

Unfortunately, the playtest seems to throw out the baby with the bathwater (and keeping the soap scum on the edges).


  • The wizard gets a bunch of choices (the equivalent of too many options) but then has most of those options once-a-day. Of course, this doesn't matter much since the clear winner is ray of frost -- a ranged attack of incredible effect that can be used at will while staying out of the way. (Wizards = gods again, even at first level.)

  • Then comes the fighter, with "I swing my axe" as the only combat option. Sure, he can get creative in how he describes swinigng his axe, but the Next fighter has fewer combat choices than an Essentials Slayer.


Fewer choices overall (compared to 4) with more at-will (a la 4e Essentials) would be more appealing.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Fully agree. I think dailies should be thrown out (including the horrible vancian mechanic) and the only daily resources should be HP/healing surges/hit dice.

All the rest should be made up by encounter/at-will resources. This way you'll have no interest in 5 minute workdays unless you'll get seriously beaten in a fight. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/23.jpg)



  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.




You can assume that the character always tries to do the encounter manoeuver, but it is so difficult that he only manages it once per encounter, and other strikes land as at-will duds. This explanation should satisfy the simulationists.


  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.




You can assume that the character always tries to do the encounter manoeuver, but it is so difficult that he only manages it once per encounter, and other strikes land as at-will duds. This explanation should satisfy the simulationists.

Get a dog and a tennis ball, then fake-throw the ball until the dog catches on.
You've just discovered how Encounter Powers work!



  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.




You can assume that the character always tries to do the encounter manoeuver, but it is so difficult that he only manages it once per encounter, and other strikes land as at-will duds. This explanation should satisfy the simulationists.




Wow.. I think you stumbled over a gold vein here...

What if... what if in D&D5 you could do your "special class-moves" as a free action right after you rolled a 19 or 20 ?

This way they would be scarce like encounter powers were and players would be excited to do something extraordinary with a good roll.
Unfortunately I think you all are spittin into the wind-  A considerable margin of the playerbase they are trying to bring into the game despise encounter resource management and daily resource management (at least for casters- "mundanes" shouldn't have them as it hurts their Immersion)
Encounter based resource management in an encounter of reasonable length is boring because it's a false choice.

In 4E, for example; you have four encounter powers (three class + one paragon path) at minimum, and an average encounter lasts 3-5 rounds with reasonably well-built characters.  There's no choice here.  Use every encounter power as fast as you can because you won't get the chance to use them at all if you hold on to them, and they'll be back in the next encounter anyway.


Encounter powers don't bother me from a simulationist perspective.  They simply don't add anything to the game because encounters are too short for them to actually be managed.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
I hated encounter powers, and i hope they don't bring them back. 
Encounter based resource management in an encounter of reasonable length is boring because it's a false choice.

In 4E, for example; you have four encounter powers (three class + one paragon path) at minimum, and an average encounter lasts 3-5 rounds with reasonably well-built characters.  There's no choice here.  Use every encounter power as fast as you can because you won't get the chance to use them at all if you hold on to them, and they'll be back in the next encounter anyway.


Encounter powers don't bother me from a simulationist perspective.  They simply don't add anything to the game because encounters are too short for them to actually be managed.



You mean at higher levels, you have too many?
   But you forgot lower levels when you have but one. 

 What they could do is recharge mechanics. You start each encounter with 0 encounter powers, if you roll your recharge dice asnd get a 6, you get your encounter ability.


So you don't know which round it returns or appears since you have to roll a 6 on the dice. If you get lucky, you might get it every round.
"If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you." and "Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb" Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
It's not management no matter how few you have.

In order for it to be management, there needs to be an actual tactical situation in which using them all as fast as you can is NOT the best choice.  And that situation does not exist for 99.9% of 4E characters.  (Once in a very great while, you'll find a character with a power that's actually situational and it isn't optimal to use it as soon as you can.  But almost every power is better when used as quickly as possible.)
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
It's not management no matter how few you have.

In order for it to be management, there needs to be an actual tactical situation in which using them all as fast as you can is NOT the best choice.  And that situation does not exist for 99.9% of 4E characters.  (Once in a very great while, you'll find a character with a power that's actually situational and it isn't optimal to use it as soon as you can.  But almost every power is better when used as quickly as possible.)



The problem then is more the nature of encounter powers. In 4e most encounter attacks were basically At-Wills with a little extra damage tacked on and perhaps a more powerful effect. If we had a system that gave a set boost then a bigger boost under special circumstances it would add the decision to use it right away for its standard effect or wait to get a much more special effect out of it.


  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.




You can assume that the character always tries to do the encounter manoeuver, but it is so difficult that he only manages it once per encounter, and other strikes land as at-will duds. This explanation should satisfy the simulationists.





  But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.




You can assume that the character always tries to do the encounter manoeuver, but it is so difficult that he only manages it once per encounter, and other strikes land as at-will duds. This explanation should satisfy the simulationists.

Get a dog and a tennis ball, then fake-throw the ball until the dog catches on.
You've just discovered how Encounter Powers work!




  Unfortunately, these would not satisfy a simulationist.. They'd point out that you could probably pull the same trick on a dog several times before they finally caught on. They'd insist on a system where you take penalties when using the same trick over and over, or allow it to be used on different enemies, or just making it less reliable overall. Not a system where you auto fail after one attempt.


The explanation given is more narrative based, and narrative based game mechanics are harder for people to get the hang of, hence why this question is always getting asked and many people remain unsatisfied/annoyed at the idea.
It's not management no matter how few you have.

In order for it to be management, there needs to be an actual tactical situation in which using them all as fast as you can is NOT the best choice.  And that situation does not exist for 99.9% of 4E characters.  (Once in a very great while, you'll find a character with a power that's actually situational and it isn't optimal to use it as soon as you can.  But almost every power is better when used as quickly as possible.)



The problem then is more the nature of encounter powers. In 4e most encounter attacks were basically At-Wills with a little extra damage tacked on and perhaps a more powerful effect. If we had a system that gave a set boost then a bigger boost under special circumstances it would add the decision to use it right away for its standard effect or wait to get a much more special effect out of it.



I think this statement pretty well satisfies it. While I would say that I'm still relatively new to DnD (I don't have more than a year or 2 experience) I have been trying to think of smoething that balances out Vancian magic's expansive options and requring deep thought/luck with the functionality 4e had with Encounter and Daily powers. The new Next system just too heavily favors vancian for my taste. Half the reason I never got into D&D during 3 and 3.5 was Vancian magic. I saw that system and immediately didn't like it as I felt it was unnecessarily restrictive. 4.0 is nice in that it doesn't feel like all my resources are arbitrarily limited to daily uses.

When I think about it logistically, a short 10-15 minute rest recovers most of my immediate stamina, but some of that simply won't come back til I really lie down for the night and maybe not even then. My suggestion, then, is this:

Each class has 1 primary and 1 secondary resource they drawn upon. Their primary resource is determined by their class and draws from that class' primary stat (A fighter might fuel his special attacks through brawn, drawn from Strength being his primary stat). Their secondary resource is initially determined by class, but can be altered through choice of theme (same fighter as above who defaults to, for the sake of argument, dexterity as his secondary resource, but he choses the 'tactician' theme [imaginary theme] which allows him to, should he choose, change his secondary resource to Intelligence). Your primary resource would recover during a short rest with your secondary resource recovering only over a long rest.

Spell casters would still memorize their spells as before, but if they don't memorize spells with appropriate resources they could soon find themselves SoL.

This also solves a certain amount of the above for people just blowing encounter powers before they begin using basic attacks as you could still have basic attacks, but different class features or feats that you take could allow you to draw on a certain amount of your designated resource to get those encounter/daily effects.
I am extremely disappointed that daily resource management has returned more prominently. Over the editions, I've found daily resources to be an annoying mechanic that arbitrarily forces the DM to challenge the party with a certain number of encounters per day. They are also the principal reason for the "5 minute workday" because a lot of people would prefer to get their interesting abilities back rather than sit around casting magic missile the rest of the day.



Ok, I hate being the guy to say this but, "If you are having a 5 minute workday, then it is yours and your DMs fault".
I have been playing Pathfinder/3.5 = since 3e came out in 2000. In the beginning we did have problems with the short work day. But what slowly, and surely, happened was that we learned that if we blew our load on the first battle, we were relegated to sucking the rest of the time. Just because you are out of spell does NOT mean the party has a right to rest. As a DM I have made my players learn to respect daily limits. Some days they only have 1 encounter? Some days that have 10. They have to be prepared for both. If my sorcerer decides to waste all his spells in the first encounter, that's his fault. By level 10 you have a ton of spells per day anyway. If you use them all in the first couple of combats, maybe your DM should tone down the encounters.

Now, 4th edition and Pathfinder(Taking a cue from 4th) have brought in the idea of minor spells, or at wills, to allow casters to not feel useless after delivering their payload. I think this is a wonderful idea and rounds out the weaknesses of the classic per day system. It gives them spells they are not afraid to use often, but are balanced by a relatively low power level. I run a weekly Pathfinder game, and my bard/sorc and the wizard use Ray of Frost/Acid Splash all...the...time. It may only deal 1d4+1 damage, but hey if they wanted to they could do 10d6! Just less times per day. This is definately a step in the right direction.

Finally, the point of being a spellcaster has ALWAYS been resourcse management. That was the appeal of the Fighter in 1st and 2nd ed. You could go in there and swing all damn day. But the casters had to pick and choose. However at higher levels, even with all the complaining people do around here, no one could argue that spellcasters weren't more powerful.



My two copper.
Jenks, Don't "hate being the guy to say..."  because it's true.

  I always remind my players not to blow their Dailys in the first combat when I start a new player.  Not just in D&D either, it's not the only system that uses resource management.  Deciding when to use your big guns is part of playing the game.  One thing that came out of 4e a lot was,

 "Don't waste an encounter, just use your At-will, he's just a minion."

Even a Wizard can kill a Kobold in hand to hand.

It isn't really a fault of the system if players use there big powers too early.  Unless there is something that is a real threat, why is the Wizard dropping Burning Hands instead of Ray of Frost or Magic Missile?

I know it comes down to knowing your GM's style of play but, one thing I found listening to other people play and my own group, if you get in the mindset of the "5 min. work day", You're giving the PC's too much time.  Op4 won't wait for you to rest up, they will attack when you are at your worst, or villains plans will carry on if you do something or if you do nothing.

As GM, be fare but keep the story moving.
I pretty much agree with this.
What if... what if in D&D5 you could do your "special class-moves" as a free action right after you rolled a 19 or 20 ?


This is a good idea, but it's only viable for things that normally involve rolls.
IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/2.jpg)
Jenks, Don't "hate being the guy to say..."  because it's true.

  I always remind my players not to blow their Dailys in the first combat when I start a new player.  Not just in D&D either, it's not the only system that uses resource management.  Deciding when to use your big guns is part of playing the game.  One thing that came out of 4e a lot was,

 "Don't waste an encounter, just use your At-will, he's just a minion."

Even a Wizard can kill a Kobold in hand to hand.

It isn't really a fault of the system if players use there big powers too early.  Unless there is something that is a real threat, why is the Wizard dropping Burning Hands instead of Ray of Frost or Magic Missile?

I know it comes down to knowing your GM's style of play but, one thing I found listening to other people play and my own group, if you get in the mindset of the "5 min. work day", You're giving the PC's too much time.  Op4 won't wait for you to rest up, they will attack when you are at your worst, or villains plans will carry on if you do something or if you do nothing.

As GM, be fare but keep the story moving.



This is not a healthy way of thinking. Sure, while I do agree that blowing you dailies right away is a smart thing to do being forced to use MBAs and RBAs for 10 consecutive rounds before using a precious spell is boring as hell.

I'd rather have less powerful spells that I get to use more often.
In my recent campaign (3.5) I had cast three spells. I followed it up with a crossbow bolt. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy, but I announced the enemy wasn't worth the spell. With MM as a minor, I'll use spells more often.
My wife took pictures during field day. It wiped her out (temp in the mid 90's F). A barbarian having rage limited to a certain number of times a day makes sense. First encounter of the day is a giant ant. Should you rage/spell? No, wait because who knows what you might encounter later. Someone suggested to our barbarian to rage as much as possible, the rookie player said the enemy hadn't attacked him yet so why would he rage.
If players abuse the long rest, remember 1/day and any combat or spell cancels it. Send half dead kobolds in to attack. They get killed, but spoil the rest.
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
As a DM I have made my players learn to respect daily limits. Some days they only have 1 encounter? Some days that have 10. They have to be prepared for both.

I'm sorry, this just isn't fun to me.  I hate when D&D devolves into a guessing game between the players and DM.

Finally, the point of being a spellcaster has ALWAYS been resourcse management.

No, the point of being a spellcaster is that you get to use magic.  If the point were resource management, they would name the class Mystical Resource Manager.

I do agree that encounter powers as implemented in 4E present a false choice, with no real strategy involved in their deployment.

I think the stronger powers should be fueled by hit points.  Encounter-strength powers could use up a certain fraction of your total HP, and daily-strength powers could use up a greater amount.

This makes sense from a realism AND a resource management perspective.  You use a super-power, and you become exhausted, less able to fend off that killing blow.  But you can easily recharge that energy in between encounters.  It also allows for heroic moments where the adventurer puts everything he has into an attack, possibly saving the day but knocking himself out in the attempt.

In such a system, I would also advocate a certain allotment of free (resourceless) healing between encounters.  Otherwise, it's just a different kind of daily resource management, which defeats the purpose.  But the free healing is limited to, say, half your hp total -- after that, you have to use hit dice/healing surges/whatever.  This keeps a modicum of resource managment so players refrain from going all-out in every single fight.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
I am extremely disappointed that daily resource management has returned more prominently. Over the editions, I've found daily resources to be an annoying mechanic that arbitrarily forces the DM to challenge the party with a certain number of encounters per day. They are also the principal reason for the "5 minute workday" because a lot of people would prefer to get their interesting abilities back rather than sit around casting magic missile the rest of the day.



Ok, I hate being the guy to say this but, "If you are having a 5 minute workday, then it is yours and your DMs fault".
I have been playing Pathfinder/3.5 = since 3e came out in 2000. In the beginning we did have problems with the short work day. But what slowly, and surely, happened was that we learned that if we blew our load on the first battle, we were relegated to sucking the rest of the time. Just because you are out of spell does NOT mean the party has a right to rest. As a DM I have made my players learn to respect daily limits. Some days they only have 1 encounter? Some days that have 10. They have to be prepared for both. If my sorcerer decides to waste all his spells in the first encounter, that's his fault. By level 10 you have a ton of spells per day anyway. If you use them all in the first couple of combats, maybe your DM should tone down the encounters.

Now, 4th edition and Pathfinder(Taking a cue from 4th) have brought in the idea of minor spells, or at wills, to allow casters to not feel useless after delivering their payload. I think this is a wonderful idea and rounds out the weaknesses of the classic per day system. It gives them spells they are not afraid to use often, but are balanced by a relatively low power level. I run a weekly Pathfinder game, and my bard/sorc and the wizard use Ray of Frost/Acid Splash all...the...time. It may only deal 1d4+1 damage, but hey if they wanted to they could do 10d6! Just less times per day. This is definately a step in the right direction.

Finally, the point of being a spellcaster has ALWAYS been resourcse management. That was the appeal of the Fighter in 1st and 2nd ed. You could go in there and swing all damn day. But the casters had to pick and choose. However at higher levels, even with all the complaining people do around here, no one could argue that spellcasters weren't more powerful.



I've heard this response too many times before. It's ignorant to blame the DM. In order to prevent the 5 minute workday it often requires the DM to arbitrarily restrict the party's ability to rest. So a party is travelling through the woods and decides to rest after 1 fight. So the obvious option for the DM is to punish them by ambushing them while they rest. Ok so the party got ambushed, and now they rest again. Are you going to continually ambush them every 2 hours to make sure they don't get a full rest? That seems very silly.

I've heard this response too many times before. It's ignorant to blame the DM. In order to prevent the 5 minute workday it often requires the DM to arbitrarily restrict the party's ability to rest. So a party is travelling through the woods and decides to rest after 1 fight. So the obvious option for the DM is to punish them by ambushing them while they rest. Ok so the party got ambushed, and now they rest again. Are you going to continually ambush them every 2 hours to make sure they don't get a full rest? That seems very silly.




Resting takes time in-game.

Why are they traveling?  Is it something that they could be late for?  If it's anything other than 'to explore ancient ruins' the answer is YES, they can be late.  And even if they are exploring ancient ruins, maybe someone else got there first.


If you have never in your life run/played an adventure with a time crunch, we are playing completely different games.  If you frequently run/play adventures with no time crunch, at least they're the same genre, but still very different.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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Wow.. I think you stumbled over a gold vein here...

What if... what if in D&D5 you could do your "special class-moves" as a free action right after you rolled a 19 or 20 ?

This way they would be scarce like encounter powers were and players would be excited to do something extraordinary with a good roll.



I give this 5 thumbs up with gold stars on them.
In 4e terms, you use your basic attack/at-will-power, until you get that magic 20 (or 19-20). Like daily/encounter powers, but with more random.
In 3e terms, you havea variety of options for what makes your crit critical. If you know rolling a 20 allows you your whirling dervish attack or healing or a follow-up fireball, it gets a lot more exciting.
This is exactly what happened in our playtest.

Encounter 1: we face an ogre, our fighter almost dies and we have no cleric.
... ok, so we head back to town.
... we rest up then trek back to the ruins

Encounter 2: the fight is too hard, we flee, and take another long rest. By then we ran out of time to play.

However, I think this is largely a function of design on the adventure author's part, and cunning authors will recognize how to avoid it.
Balance.

Casters have limited spell usage because it's the balancing mechanic. If you want to have no limitations on casting, then you better come up with another balance mechanic or casters will dominate every other class.

Simple to say, not so simple to do. Good luck.

stouty 
This is exactly what happened in our playtest.

Encounter 1: we face an ogre, our fighter almost dies and we have no cleric.
... ok, so we head back to town.
... we rest up then trek back to the ruins

Encounter 2: the fight is too hard, we flee, and take another long rest. By then we ran out of time to play.

However, I think this is largely a function of design on the adventure author's part, and cunning authors will recognize how to avoid it.



No.False.Incorrect. You CAN and are encouraged to run away. Read the intro to the adventure. It's an open ended player killer. It is designed to keep the players and the DM to a certain extent, on thier toes. Yes you can go there, just don't be suprised if there are 30 orcs there too.  Follow the hooks, and the advice to warn players, albeit subtly, about wandering into dangerous territory.

   This isn't a PC/console game where you can't run off cliffs, you can't attack NPC commoners, the guards will always sacrifice themselves to save you from the train of monsters chasing you to the city gates. This is what 1st lvl adventures USED to be like.

BTW, check out the name of the less than cunning author you criticized...GARY GYGAX. I'm pretty sure the adventure is EXACTLY the way he wanted it.  nuff said.

  On the whole magic thing.....Spell Points. We, as a community, really overlook and ignore spell points. DDO works well with them. The Skills & Powers books worked well with them. PSP's in the Will and the Way worked well. System is simple to use easy, to tweak during playtesting, and gives both sides what they want. I want verbal,somatic and material components along with resource management; and you want cast whatever spell I want/need and not be limited to lower or certain spells. You gain X# points per lvl plus wis/Int/Cha bonus ( normally 10/lvl +mod). You regain all SP with full rest and some (let's say stat mod) on short rest. That way you always have some coming back but never more than 1/3 or so ( with 20 Int @1st =15sp, gain 5 back/short rest). This ,like DDO allows caster and Psi's to spend SP/PP for added effects (max/extend/etc) spell cost SP equal to lvl of spell.  It would be ok to allow 1 or 2 at will cantrips ( negligible effect heal 1d4/deal 1d4) for those abushes at night, back to back bosses, etc.
Count me in the group of people that are severly dissapointed witht he resurgance of reliance on daily resouces and away from encounter resources.  That was always one of my least favorite things in 3.x  (and worse in pathfinder) and all previous eddition spells and not something I welcome back.  I also don't like the return to the saving throws per individual stats and lack of scaling for level for anything but HP, I don't like that as you level your HP go up and new tricks get added but there's not a base line chance for saves (please bring back non ac defenses) ac and attack barring magic items.  I'm also particularly dissapointed with the lack of effect for positioning in combat, (I found no flanking or charging rules and with hiding requiring a standard action a rogue getting a sneak attack seems to be a rare thing now).

There also doesn't seem to be an effect on saving throws based on calse, theme or anything besides ability scores which feels wrong and too simplistic.

 
If you're not going to bother with resources, why bother with weaker spells at all.  Or the fighter class. Or healers. Just make your wizards 'nuke' spell at will and problem solved.  Every encounter gets the nuke.  After casting any spell, your wizard gets a free healing surge that restores his maximum hits each time.  Of course, there is an unlimited number of surges available to him.  Any enemy that survies the nuke, automatically fails against the wizard's intimidate skill roll (which is also a free action).

Honestly, does 'interesting' power for eveyone mean the one that does the most damage?  How are you going to be worried about your character surviving the adventure if you meta-game out all of the problems and dangers he might face?  Perhaps that is the aim.  It is (almost) universally acknowledged that in 4e you couldn't die; do people really want 5e to be a game in which you can't fail?
carldot34, I am trying to see how your post fits in this thread, what argument you are railing agaisnt, and what point you are trying to make. I do not mean this as a jab. I am trying to understand. So I think you may need to help me by offering a bit more explanation.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
The questions should to know if "day", or "spending a certain amount of game time" is the best way to manage ressources in all circumstances, for all styles.
In some adventures, you may want to have many encounters in short amount of time ("you have one hour to save the world!"). In others the PCs are supposed to have a lot of time to explore a dungeon, in still others, fights and occasions to spend your ressources are scarce, and you may have days between encounters (like travel for instance).

I think the "basic rules" should propose an alternative between "fixed time ressource management" for those who like their teams to be always low on ressource, and "regain ressources every X encounters" for those who like the ressource management to be dependent on the story, and not the other way around.
Remember Tunnel Seventeen !
What I thought carldot34 was getting at, and I agree, is that if everything was at will the mage class would overpower. Throw your most powerful spells at everything. If you take damage healing surge.

The fighter feat we saw lets the fighter take a double turn twice a day. If this were at will, the fighter would get two actions every turn. If it were on an encounter basis, the fighter would have taken 4 actions by the end of the second round.

How is a five minute workday any different than instantly recovering all HP, spells, and abilities at the end of every combat?

Players: Wow that was a tough attack.
DM: So what do you do now?
Players: Long Rest.
DM: Okay, you are healed and recover your spells now what?

Versus

Players: Wow that was a tough attack.
DM: Okay, you are healed and recover your spells now what?

If XP is based off of challenge level, wouldn't attacking the next group of enemies be more challenging with a weakend party?

I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
For me, what is interesting about vancian spellcasting is the ability to prepare spells for the day not the daily ressource management.

There are other ressources for bigger spells than at-will than daily spell points or spell slots. The caster could accept some encounter long penalties or just invest more actions.
It makes sense to see something like a three rounds casting spells generating the equivalent cumulative effects of three at-will + a compensating effect for the delayed action. It has the advantage of not introducing an encounter breaking effect on the first round and not having to force an artificial limit to the number of casting.

Another way to manage big spell through actions is to remove normal at-will spells and make that during the rounds spent to cast a big spell, you have the ability to generate effects equivalent to an at-will. Or this can reversed, at-will spells generating the power needed to cast the big spells.

I think there are a lot of  ways to avoid the daily casting part of the vancian spellcasting.

Daily ressources are totally artificial and should be avoided just because it bars our characters to travel to worlds where days are shorter Tongue Out
Spellcasting aliens from jupiter are too powerful for our characters with days shorter than 10 hours.

If you like pure Vancian spellcasting, you don't like spelcasters from jupiter, Saturn, Uranus or Neptune (unless you are allowed to play them, I suppose).

And how a character manage daily ressource ?
Is it aware of the planet rotation or is it managing its ressources by waiting the sun to return, as it can take a very loooong time ?

 Daily ressources make no sense as long as they are not based on a clock.

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

But then there are those people who question why their character should only be capable of one certain action once an encounter.



Once an encounter makes a lot more sense than twice a day. Which on some days might mean you can do it every fight, while other days you might use the ability first thing in the morning and have 10 other combats but not be able to do the same thing.

I agree with those who say that Encounter resources become dull.  In 4E, even when you have but one such power, it is nearly always better than your at-wills.  So it isn't really resource management: you always use the big one first and then go to your at-wills.  By the time you are level 11 and have 4 encounter powers, you don't see at-wills being used much at all.  If the fight is very long of if someone needs to take out a minion, but otherwise every fight just has players using encounter powers with the occasional daily when they need a big gun.

So what has happened?  Encounter powers become the new at-will powers.  Every fight has each character using all of their encounter powers.  If this is the case, why even have at-wills?  Or, alternatively, why have encounter powers?  Instead, have at-wills and scale down monster hp.

I personally enjoy managing daily resources, but I know that others do not.  I am excited to see what the combat maneuvers are like for fighters; hopefully there will be special attacks you can use at any time (for example, perhaps you could trip, knocking down your target but doing much less damage than a standard attack).

Regarding the 5-minute workday: the only way to ever prevent the urge to rest after one hard fight using the rules would be to have no daily resources (including HP, which would fully recover after every fight).  This is something that is covered much better in game.  Have time be an issue: players can rest all they want, but things will happen when they do.  And I'm not just talking about attacking them while they rest (typically not the best DM tactic...better to just say, "This isn't a safe place to rest.")  The Caves of Chaos adventure gives advice to DMs for keeping it dynamic...when the PCs return to town to rest, things change.  Monsters move around, etc.

Regarding the age-old "issue" of a party that is traveling and has a fight...
1) DMs need to think about the purpose of any encounter.  If the PCs are traveling from A to B, and it will take 3 days, you know they will be able to rest after a fight on Day 2.  So why have the fight?  If the point is just to illustrate how dangerous it is to travel, why not just say, "Travelling is very dangerous.  Orcs roam the countryside.", and see how your players react.  If the point is a quest hook ("Wow, I didn't expect to see Orcs here...I wonder what is going on?"), then it doesn't matter if they get to rest.
and
2) The great advantage of how fast fights are in D&D Next helps a lot here.  You can toss in a fight just to show how scary a place is, knowing that it won't take long.  This also helps with the issue of needing frequent rests at low level.  Resting doesn't take time in real life.  I am confused with what RCanine wrote above.  His group had a fight against an ogre and got so beaten up that they had to go back to town to rest.  Then they came back and had another hard fight, requiring another rest.  And at that time he said they ran out of time to play.  Two fights don't take long, so it sounds as if there wasn't much time to play; so even if they had two easy fights they would have run out of time.  Having to rest often at low levels doesn't slow down gameplay...it just illustrates how dangerous things are at low levels.
I feel like the problem your describing is a result of the module. This is the first time I have played this module and it feels combat heavy.

Playing a Wizard, I don't feel the limit of 6 spells a day to be to harsh at all. It forces me to save the big guns for the big bad guys. While at the same time, I'm not forced to haul around a bow and quiver to stay useful on the weaker enemies. Since I can always throw out a cantrip, I can always do something wizardly in combat.

To avoid 5 minute work days it helps if the DM designs some sort of greater plot motivation to explore the caves quickly. Which is what our DM has done. However, the nature of the module seems to make this difficult. Whenever we follow a plot hook to a cave, the DM seems to be rolling randomly to decide which cave we've stumbled into. As exciting as this makes the combat, it makes it hard for him to work in plot elements that make us feel like we are getting closer to our goal.

We often have to return to town to rest or sell loot(and hobgoblins drop a lot of loot). But we also are in a hurry. Therefor, we often trek back to town victorious in combat, but with our heads hanging low in defeat. Another day closer to the "Too Late" plot event; all we have to show for it is more scars and more coin.

There in lies the fun. The challenge is how far can we press ourselves without dying and its working for us. If I could cast sleep twice in every battle, the challenge wouldn't be there. If I couldn't cast magic missile at will, I would be back to the boring task of throwing darts.

I think the greater plot should motivate the party to press themselves so they are not rotating through a 5 minute work day. But, I don't feel like the module is supportive of the DM's effort there.
At wills (cantrips whatever) are great. Encounters i'm fine with although I don't think are needed. Dailes I wish would go away totally. 
This is something has I have dealt with in my own personal gaming group in the past.  Basically, I feel like the fighter should be able to do more than swing his axe, and he should also be able to keep using his powers, if a fight really drags out,  he should still be able to keep using impressive abilities.

Wizards didn't do nearly enough in 4e, IMO, I loved how they were handled in 3.5. 
So... I combined the 4e Fighter with the 3.5 Wizard.  I made some adjustments, like Meta-magic feats being encounter powers that don't modify the spell slot, and concentrating on a spell cost a minor/move/standard action, and it ended up working beautifully.
I would also rather like to see daily ressources go away. They are kind of metagamey and cause a lot of problems.

Instead I would like  to see a recovery mechaniks like the one in 3.5 Tome of Battle for all classes.

I would propose something like the following mechanic:

All characters have 2-3 at-will abilities that they can use all the time.
Additionally they have something around 8 additional abilities that they can use "sometimes", depending on the flow of battle.

At the beginning of an encounter, each character draws 4 of their additional abilities as cards. As an action they can use the ability printed on the card, then draw a new card. If the player uses an at-will ability, he or she can also mix all additional ability cards and draw a fresh set of 4 cards.
That way the character always has 4 options to choose from and uses the one that fits the tactical situation best. If no option is satisfying or the player wants to save them for later use, the player uses an at-will ability. 

For Spellcasters that are supposed to prepare spells, one could make a spell list of maybe 50 spells. The wizard or cleric than creates his own deck by choosing 8 spells from that list. He can also choose a spell multiple times to increase the odds that a specific spell appears. That deck is than used for the additonal ability deck described above.

This mechanics in my opinion describe nicely that not all options are always available in battle. You need some luck to be able to use a specific maneuver or to use a spell in the current situation. It is also a lot more flavourful than daily abilities.



 
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