grixis zombie mix

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my main deck is very consistant, just not sure about my side deck

creatures

4x vexing devil
4x gravecrawler
4x diregraf ghoul
4x snapcaster mage
4x phantasmal image
4x geralf's messenger
2x falkenrath noble

sorceries

4x bump in the night
4x killing wave

instants

4x incinerate

lands

4x cavern of souls
4x darkslick shores
4x blackcleave cliffs
3x drowned catacomb
3x dragonskull summit
2x swamp
1x mountain
1x island

4 basic incase anyone uses ghost quarter on me

side

4x vapor snag
4x tragic slip
3x ratchet bomb
4x act of treason

act of treason casue with 4 mana i can steal a titan swing with a titan and killing wave for 0 and sac the titan
vapor snag, cause i wasnt sure what to put in, considering steel sabotage, diregraf captain, or mana leak

please just help me with my side deck, mono red burn, ramp decks and planes walker control decks are my weakest points, and if i lose their life is usually 5 or less when i lose
the only card i have issues with is the snapcaster mage because he just seems subpar in a deck with 3 targets and 2 are sorceries...
the only card i have issues with is the snapcaster mage because he just seems subpar in a deck with 3 targets and 2 are sorceries...

for 3 mana snapcaster mage hits a player for 3 life, for 4 mana snapcaster mage does 3 damage to creature or player, its made to burn a player quick, and withoptions to switch out to control, or removal, my weakness so far is gr ramp decks
the side deck right now is

3x tragic slip
3x mana leak
3x act of treason
3x ratchet bomb
1x falkenrath noble
2x blood artist

i'm thinking about 2x grimgrin, corpse-born in place of the 2x blood artist, for those ramp gr ramp decks
I'd swap the Falkenrath Nobles for Blood Artist. He does the same thing, and he's half the mana cost.

Otherwise, though, looks good.
I'd swap the Falkenrath Nobles for Blood Artist. He does the same thing, and he's half the mana cost.

Otherwise, though, looks good.



i've been considering it but when i playtest on cockatrice, blood artist doesny work as well as falkenrath noble cause i can attack with falkenrath noble, blood artist sits there waiting for killing wave
I'd swap the Falkenrath Nobles for Blood Artist. He does the same thing, and he's half the mana cost.

Otherwise, though, looks good.



i've been considering it but when i playtest on cockatrice, blood artist doesny work as well as falkenrath noble cause i can attack with falkenrath noble, blood artist sits there waiting for killing wave

Yeah, that's true, but the Blood Artist has the same ability as the Noble. So Killing Wave would be rather foolish on your opponent's part.

Plus, if you're worried about BA doing damage, toss in a Rakish Heir, and throw, I dunno, a machete or something on him. Ta-da~! +1/+1 counter, and go from there.

Just a thought, though.
You're going to have problems with that mana base. Most of your lands will come into play tapped at a critical time when you should be casting creatures. Naming zombies on your cos will increase your difficulty playing early illusions and vampires. Likewise, naming illusion or human will have the opposite effect. I think I would dump the island, mountain and 4-cos for swamps and dual lands. That is my opinion.

Also, you really aren't running enough instants/sorceries for snapcaster and with only 22 lands the blood artist is far better than the noble.
Blood Artist allows you to get your engine moving faster and put pressure on the opponent earlier. With the noble you have to wait until turn 4 to even start. I disagree that he justs sits there waititng for the killing waves. Killing wave certainly works very well with him but its not the only reason to play him. He will only sit there if your not attacking or nothing is being killed. The fact that the noble attacks makes it easier for him to be killed and gives more reason to kill him.
100th post on 5/29/12 500th post on 8/20/12
See, this deck is strange. It has cards that are generally good on their own, but then blends them into a different deck entirely. Snapcasters in here are more of a cheap trick instead of a tactic, and though vexing devil is pretty good, it just seems strange here. Also, I agree with the others, blood artist is much better, especially considering that noble/artist are not creatures that you generally want to attack with anyway.
You're going to have problems with that mana base. Most of your lands will come into play tapped at a critical time when you should be casting creatures. Naming zombies on your cos will increase your difficulty playing early illusions and vampires. Likewise, naming illusion or human will have the opposite effect. I think I would dump the island, mountain and 4-cos for swamps and dual lands. That is my opinion.

Also, you really aren't running enough instants/sorceries for snapcaster and with only 22 lands the blood artist is far better than the noble.



deck runs pretty fast, gr ramp my only enemy
See, this deck is strange. It has cards that are generally good on their own, but then blends them into a different deck entirely. Snapcasters in here are more of a cheap trick instead of a tactic, and though vexing devil is pretty good, it just seems strange here. Also, I agree with the others, blood artist is much better, especially considering that noble/artist are not creatures that you generally want to attack with anyway.



i've lost more using blood artist then using falkenrath noble
Vexing Devil is really bad in every deck you could ever conceivably use him in. Just cut him.

EDIT: Incidentally, Blood Artist is probably better than Falkenrath Noble. 
he really is amazing, you just don't know, people either take 4 damage(which life loss and damage to life is what this deck is about), waste a kill spell or lose creatures him and die to him
Vexing Devil is really bad in every deck you could ever conceivably use him in. Just cut him.

EDIT: Incidentally, Blood Artist is probably better than Falkenrath Noble. 


 in all play test online and in person falkenrath noble is better the blood artist, and vexing devil kills my opponent
"You just don't know"? Mr Indigo? Uhhh no, clearly you don't know.

I'm sorry to say it, but you don't seem to realise why he is bad. NEVER give your enemy a choice between hurting themselves or not hurting themselves. It is never worth it. You are better off with a Pillar of Flame, simply because it will do what you want it to every time. It's also more useful than a 4/3 that may or may not turn up.

How is Noble better than Artist? You shouldn't be using either for anything other than sitting there and looking pretty, waiting for creatre death. You certainly shouldn't be swinging or blocking with them, they're too valuable to the overall plan.

I'm not even going to talk about Killing Wave and Bump in the Night.
"You just don't know"? Mr Indigo? Uhhh no, clearly you don't know.

I'm sorry to say it, but you don't seem to realise why he is bad. NEVER give your enemy a choice between hurting themselves or not hurting themselves. It is never worth it. You are better off with a Pillar of Flame, simply because it will do what you want it to every time. It's also more useful than a 4/3 that may or may not turn up.

How is Noble better than Artist? You shouldn't be using either for anything other than sitting there and looking pretty, waiting for creatre death. You certainly shouldn't be swinging or blocking with them, they're too valuable to the overall plan.

I'm not even going to talk about Killing Wave and Bump in the Night.



and spirits kill me without a flying blocker

"You just don't know"? Mr Indigo? Uhhh no, clearly you don't know.

I'm sorry to say it, but you don't seem to realise why he is bad. NEVER give your enemy a choice between hurting themselves or not hurting themselves. It is never worth it. You are better off with a Pillar of Flame, simply because it will do what you want it to every time. It's also more useful than a 4/3 that may or may not turn up.

How is Noble better than Artist? You shouldn't be using either for anything other than sitting there and looking pretty, waiting for creatre death. You certainly shouldn't be swinging or blocking with them, they're too valuable to the overall plan.

I'm not even going to talk about Killing Wave and Bump in the Night.



and spirits kill me without a flying blocker




the metaplay is aggro, this set up wins when i don't get mana flooded

Which is why you shouldn't run Wave, you should run BSZ. Think about it. Why give them the option? Just kill EVERYTHING. Similarly, why run bump? Run Slagstorm. Your goal is to have Blood Artist (cheaper, same effect) down and protected OR down when you kill everything. If he dies, take out everything with you. Gain life, suck the opponents, laugh at their puny attempts. You want the Gain/Loss effect out ASAP, and that means Artist for T2. You should also look at a 1 of Bonfire of the Damned. Even if you have to hard cast it, it can make a massive difference.

You can't cover all the bases by fighting like with like. Don't fight fliers with fliers, fight them with destruction. Don't fight aggro with aggro, fight them with life gain. Focus on the core cards and their effects, being Blood Artist + Burn. Capitalise on getting as many creatures dead as quickly as possible, no matter the source.
cause if they play life they die if they lose creatures and play out their hands they die
Which is why you shouldn't run Wave, you should run BSZ. Think about it. Why give them the option? Just kill EVERYTHING. Similarly, why run bump? Run Slagstorm. Your goal is to have Blood Artist (cheaper, same effect) down and protected OR down when you kill everything. If he dies, take out everything with you. Gain life, suck the opponents, laugh at their puny attempts. You want the Gain/Loss effect out ASAP, and that means Artist for T2. You should also look at a 1 of Bonfire of the Damned. Even if you have to hard cast it, it can make a massive difference.

You can't cover all the bases by fighting like with like. Don't fight fliers with fliers, fight them with destruction. Don't fight aggro with aggro, fight them with life gain. Focus on the core cards and their effects, being Blood Artist + Burn. Capitalise on getting as many creatures dead as quickly as possible, no matter the source.


 i dare you to try this set up and you will see it consistantly wins
You're not making any sense now, nor are you arguing the points raised by others. You're clearly happy with your deck and do not value commentary or arguments provided, so there's nothing else I feel compelled to add. Good luck.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

There's the explanation about Vexing Devil. 
the only card i have issues with is the snapcaster mage because he just seems subpar in a deck with 3 targets and 2 are sorceries...

for 3 mana snapcaster mage hits a player for 3 life, for 4 mana snapcaster mage does 3 damage to creature or player, its made to burn a player quick, and withoptions to switch out to control, or removal, my weakness so far is gr ramp decks



Things to do for 3 mana or less in red/black that work with your deck.

brimstone volley
volt charge (seems sub-optimal with nothing to proliferate)
thatcher revolt (swing for 3, when they die sets off blood artist/falkenrath noble 3 times)
phyrexian metamorph over image if you get rid of blue.
mortarpod
mimic vat (swing every turn and at worst they lose one you gain 1, at best your hasty creature gets in)
vulshok replica (deal 4, gain 1)
moriok replica (both players lose 1, you draw 2 cards)
blood artist (cheaper falkenrath, that works in tandem)
slagstorm
blasphemous act (what? could cost less, kills pretty much everything, and you'll gain x, they'll lose x, even if they have titans)
bone splinters
bonfire of the damned
fume spitter
galvanic blast
goblin arsonist
infernal plunge
typhoid rats
undying evil
altar's reap (altar's reap)
black cat
disciple of griselbrand
doom blade
go for the throat
fling
geth's verdict
reassembling skeleton
skirsdag high priest
smallpox
torch fiend
victim of night
whipflare
act of treason
blind zealot
blistergrub
chandra's phoenix
dismember
furnace celebration
liliana of the veil
pyreheart wolf
rolling tremblor
royal assassin
soulcage fiend
tribute to hunger
unhallowed pact

Did I miss anything?




You're not making any sense now, nor are you arguing the points raised by others. You're clearly happy with your deck and do not value commentary or arguments provided, so there's nothing else I feel compelled to add. Good luck.


 luck is not a factor
the only card i have issues with is the snapcaster mage because he just seems subpar in a deck with 3 targets and 2 are sorceries...

for 3 mana snapcaster mage hits a player for 3 life, for 4 mana snapcaster mage does 3 damage to creature or player, its made to burn a player quick, and withoptions to switch out to control, or removal, my weakness so far is gr ramp decks



Things to do for 3 mana or less in red/black that work with your deck.

brimstone volley
volt charge (seems sub-optimal with nothing to proliferate)
thatcher revolt (swing for 3, when they die sets off blood artist/falkenrath noble 3 times)
phyrexian metamorph over image if you get rid of blue.
mortarpod
mimic vat (swing every turn and at worst they lose one you gain 1, at best your hasty creature gets in)
vulshok replica (deal 4, gain 1)
moriok replica (both players lose 1, you draw 2 cards)
blood artist (cheaper falkenrath, that works in tandem)
slagstorm
blasphemous act (what? could cost less, kills pretty much everything, and you'll gain x, they'll lose x, even if they have titans)
bone splinters
bonfire of the damned
fume spitter
galvanic blast
goblin arsonist
infernal plunge
typhoid rats
undying evil
altar's reap (altar's reap)
black cat
disciple of griselbrand
doom blade
go for the throat
fling
geth's verdict
reassembling skeleton
skirsdag high priest
smallpox
torch fiend
victim of night
whipflare
act of treason
blind zealot
blistergrub
chandra's phoenix
dismember
furnace celebration
liliana of the veil
pyreheart wolf
rolling tremblor
royal assassin
soulcage fiend
tribute to hunger
unhallowed pact

Did I miss anything?






 i really hate mortor pod, dismember, only have one chandra's phoenix, my phyrexian metamorphs are in a mono red deck, act of treason is in the side, stagstorm in my mono red, can't pull any bonfire of the damn and i'm poor, the same with mimic vat, considered fling for the longest and the rest is crap
i dare everyone who commented on the post to try my deck, double dare you

 i really hate mortor pod, dismember, only have one chandra's phoenix, my phyrexian metamorphs are in a mono red deck, act of treason is in the side, stagstorm in my mono red, can't pull any bonfire of the damn and i'm poor, the same with mimic vat, considered fling for the longest and the rest is crap




brimstone volley
volt charge
blood artist
bone splinters
galvanic blast
doom blade
go for the throat
geth's verdict
whipflare
liliana of the veil
tribute to hunger



... wut? Surprised

Get outta here! I mean, you complete and deliberate avoidance of arguments, resorting to immature, childish dares, and false bravado already had me thinking troll, but calling those cards crap? Nah, you gotta be full of it at this point. How could anyone call any of those cards let alone all of them crap?!

 i really hate mortor pod, dismember, only have one chandra's phoenix, my phyrexian metamorphs are in a mono red deck, act of treason is in the side, stagstorm in my mono red, can't pull any bonfire of the damn and i'm poor, the same with mimic vat, considered fling for the longest and the rest is crap




brimstone volley
volt charge
blood artist
bone splinters
galvanic blast
doom blade
go for the throat
geth's verdict
whipflare
liliana of the veil
tribute to hunger



... wut?

Get outta here! I mean, you complete and deliberate avoidance of arguments, resorting to immature, childish dares, and false bravado already had me thinking troll, but calling those cards crap? Nah, you gotta be full of it at this point. How could anyone call any of those cards let alone all of them crap?!


i own no liliana's and she cost too much to buy, doom blade doesnt kill black creatures,, blood artist cant do anything but sit there, whipflare in my mono red deck go for the throat can hit artifact creaure, and my deck isn't about control it's about my opponent's life hitting 0 before mine does
regardless of whatever they may do, i don't care what they play
and i would drop red before i drop blue i'm a blue player
Which is why you shouldn't run Wave, you should run BSZ. Think about it. Why give them the option? Just kill EVERYTHING. Similarly, why run bump? Run Slagstorm. Your goal is to have Blood Artist (cheaper, same effect) down and protected OR down when you kill everything. If he dies, take out everything with you. Gain life, suck the opponents, laugh at their puny attempts. You want the Gain/Loss effect out ASAP, and that means Artist for T2. You should also look at a 1 of Bonfire of the Damned. Even if you have to hard cast it, it can make a massive difference.

You can't cover all the bases by fighting like with like. Don't fight fliers with fliers, fight them with destruction. Don't fight aggro with aggro, fight them with life gain. Focus on the core cards and their effects, being Blood Artist + Burn. Capitalise on getting as many creatures dead as quickly as possible, no matter the source.


 i dare you to try this set up and you will see it consistantly wins


 and lately i've been killing wave for 0, just by paying b, sacking my creatures for the win
So what if your stuff is in another deck? PULL THEM OUT of those other decks, put them in this one, and then try running the deck. 'Sides, a properly built aggro deck would have you facedown in a ditch before your deck can even get off with how you've got it built now.
Whoah, whoah, back up. Did someone call Blood Artist 'Crap'!?!
Also, as someone who mainly plays Aggro, I'd love to face your deck in a tournament. I'd be one win closer to prizes.  
Oops. Sorry for the bravado. Tongue Out

"I will diminish, and go into the west, and there remain SgtPepperjack. Y'know, you really ought to come along with me."

www.nogoblinsallowed.com

So what if your stuff is in another deck? PULL THEM OUT of those other decks, put them in this one, and then try running the deck. 'Sides, a properly built aggro deck would have you facedown in a ditch before your deck can even get off with how you've got it built now.


 i'm not having any issues with aggro decks or control decks, until i ajusted my side board my issue where titan decks, like wolf's run, mono red ramp, inferno titan, and face 3 frost titans, had him at 2 i was at 18 and top decked a land with no hand those were my issues, until i fixed my side deck
Whoah, whoah, back up. Did someone call Blood Artist 'Crap'!?!
Also, as someone who mainly plays Aggro, I'd love to face your deck in a tournament. I'd be one win closer to prizes.  
Oops. Sorry for the bravado. Tongue Out


 its crap, meet me on cockatrice, iamroach is my name
Whoah, whoah, back up. Did someone call Blood Artist 'Crap'!?!
Also, as someone who mainly plays Aggro, I'd love to face your deck in a tournament. I'd be one win closer to prizes.  
Oops. Sorry for the bravado. Tongue Out



i'm waiting

The main thing with Blood artist is that you need to start the extra lifeloss as early as possible. It doesnt matter if he just sits there hes still doing his job when things die and if need be he can still be used as an emergency blocker. Also people are less willing to use removal on a 0/1 that just sits there. dismember? ok. gut shot? sure. If you are worried about fliers im not so sure a turn 4 flier can help all that much. If the board is already clogged up with spirits then they will vapor snag the noble away, if it wasnt countered already. By turn 4 you could have 3 blood artist out as opposed to 1 noble.
100th post on 5/29/12 500th post on 8/20/12
The main thing with Blood artist is that you need to start the extra lifeloss as early as possible. It doesnt matter if he just sits there hes still doing his job when things die and if need be he can still be used as an emergency blocker. Also people are less willing to use removal on a 0/1 that just sits there. dismember? ok. gut shot? sure. If you are worried about fliers im not so sure a turn 4 flier can help all that much. If the board is already clogged up with spirits then they will vapor snag the noble away, if it wasnt countered already. By turn 4 you could have 3 blood artist out as opposed to 1 noble.


 and he's what others are doing like motor pod, i'm original doing my own thing
The main thing with Blood artist is that you need to start the extra lifeloss as early as possible. It doesnt matter if he just sits there hes still doing his job when things die and if need be he can still be used as an emergency blocker. Also people are less willing to use removal on a 0/1 that just sits there. dismember? ok. gut shot? sure. If you are worried about fliers im not so sure a turn 4 flier can help all that much. If the board is already clogged up with spirits then they will vapor snag the noble away, if it wasnt countered already. By turn 4 you could have 3 blood artist out as opposed to 1 noble.


 and if blood artist was a 1/1 not a 0/1 i'd use him
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