ok, give five rules that needs to be tweeked so far.

the initial playtest has been interesting , but far from perfect. so  let's start giving honest opinions of what needs to be reworked.


my top five:


5) spell ranges are way crazy. 1oo feet for the majority of them, could we knock them down a bit 80 seems like a realistic range.

4) magic missile as a cantrip. should be made into a minor that does 1d6+ magic number.

3) i'd liker to see spell components eliminated. (material ones anyways .)

2) a better variant on critical hit gamage..max damage is so anti climatic.

1)bnetter math in describing how you determine attack and magic level bonuses.


those are my thoughts so far.
-star26        

     
        
I'm with you on material components there!

0. General design ethos.
* Verbal/ Somantic / Material for spells
* Vancian Magic as default/only wizard option.
* Unbalanced classes
Fix? Start over please with a fun balanced core instead of a 1e clone.

1. 12 hours of unconciousness with your companions tending to your wounds is less effective (1hp) than 5 minutes of bandaging yourself up (hit dice hp). PCs should be able to aid a friend back to health. Fix: 5 minutes out of combat with a friend bandaging you and caring for you allows you to get the benefits of a short rest. Same fix to long rests.

2. Hit-dice mechanic too swingy. My fix? As an option at character creation for those that want it you can choose to have your hit-dice random or as a permanently set number.
1d4 = 3hp
1d6 = 4hp
1d8 = 5hp
1d10 = 6hp
1d12 = 7hp
(max roll on dice / 2 , + 1)

3. GP = HP. My fix? Healing kits are free to make, but take a day to scavenge the components with a skill check. A healer-theme can make three in an hour.

4. A drunk with advantage is just a character with 1d6 damage reduction! Fix: Intoxication gives -2 penalty in addition to disadvantage.

5. Monster design & spell design requires lots of page flipping. My fix? If a monster has a power list the effect there too, don't just say "monster has spell x". If a spell has an effect give the conditions of that effect in the spell itself (shield spell grants 3/4 cover - but I need to flick t the rules to 3/4 cover to figure out what that does).
1. Armor Class for Heavy Armor seems goofy -- not enough incentive for anyone to wear it at the current AC levels.

2. Some sort of action point/bennie mechanic would be cool to add.

3. Wizard's Shield spell should at least give +4 AC vs Ranged attacks.

4. Cleric healing seems too weak, and mostly useless as is.

5. Intimidate -- as it is now, is it a Cha vs Wis thing? Cha isn't something big scary ugly guys have much of. 
Tim Callahan Staff Writer at Tor.com and Comic Book Resources Blog: Geniusboy Firemelon
Hmm... in no particular order...

1) Rolled hit points.  You're stuck with one roll for the lifetime of your character.  That's frustrating.  Replace with a flat system.

2) Armor only explicitly gives disadvantage to sneaking.  Even recognizing the more freeform skill system that seems to be in this build of the game, there should be a line in there about disadvantage "for other ability checks that require unencumbered movement" or some such language.

3) With the caveat that I haven't actually run a combat with this system yet, it seems unrealistically easy for monsters to just walk around the fighter and get at the casters who are trying to hide behind him.  Maybe marks and opportunity attacks are too complicated and maybe they're not, but I'd be reassured if I saw something to help the meatshields run interference.

4)  I'd like to see a little more to differentiate some of the weapons.  A rapier should not be identical to a shortsword but for cost.

5)  The intoxicated condition definitely should not have a roll for damage reduction.  That's just a bunch of rolls we don't need.  Make it a flat -3 or something.


4. Cleric healing seems too weak, and mostly useless as is.



Just want to make sure you checked the cleric of pelor's third level ability called healing touch.  You know where he maxes every bit of healing he does.  oh I made this potion it will give max hit points.  Oh with one use of my med kit I will fix everyone up in this short rest.  Any hit die you take as part of this rest are maxed.  Any healing spell I drop will give the max hitpoints it can.  At level 5 when I get cure mod (assumes that level 5 is when you get that spell) that will likely be like 20 HP no questions(assumes the 18 in stat and the idea of 2d8 as the die ammount).  In the spells we have seen there is a spell the cleric of pelor can prep that is heal someone within 50 feet for 1d6 and then make an attack as well.  no matter what that hands out 6 hit points to someone that may not be a bunch for the clerics and fighter, but for the rogue and wizard 6 HP guarunteed is not to shabby and it might be just enough to get the fighter or someone back in the game.

1. That said I think they need to clean up some language to make it less confusing.

As dumb as I think the misinerpretation of the reach weapon rules are it should be clarified that it doesn't permanently increase your reach but that it increases your reah while you are attacking on your turn.

2. maybe adding AOOs

I can't think of any more off the top of my head I'll take a look tomorrow night if I don't entirely lose track of this thread

Only 5?

1) Define more explicit conditions for giving advantage and disadvantage (flanking, higher/lower ground, etc.)

2) Opportunity attacks, at the very least, if not full-on opportunity actions.

3) Swift/minor and free actions, instead of incidental actions.

4) AC values for heavy armor need to be bumped up (probably by +2 or 3). Hard to make too many math adjustments at this stage, but this one was obvious.

5) Someone who is not proficient with a weapon should never be able to cancel the disadvantage he gets from wielding that weapon (via an advantage). Non-proficiency needs to hurt.
1. Restoring all HD after an extended rest is fine, but you should not automatically regain all hps as well given the description of the 'below half hp'. I'd be fine with allowing regain of all hps if you are over half...

2. Yeah, the intoxicated thing takes 'feeling no pain' to an all new level - that needs work.

3. The move/action/move thing is fine for everything except melee. I don't really want the return of AoO's in general, but there needs to be a mechanic for breaking off from melee.

4. Comprehend Languages needs to be added to the spells that can be cast as rituals (as should most future utility spells as they are added).

5. (EDITED TO ADD A FIFTH) Apply disadvantage for armor to swimming and climbing in addition to stealth.

I'm pretty happy with the limited rules we've seen so far.

Veteran of The Transfer... Add 700 to my post count... 

1. Definitely get rid of the drunken damage resistance. The first thing noted by a friend of mine was that drunken fist fights (punch = 1d4) are never going to end.

2. Advantage/disadvantage. I love what you guys are trying to do here, but the proposal as is just seems too limiting. There is no room for smaller bonuses or penalties. And I certainly don't like that your level of skill determines how effective/hindering the advantage/disadvantage. Everyone should benefit equally from the same advantage. 

3. Inflation. Just say no. Why is searing light and other spells doing so much damage compared to earlier editions? Any attempt to curb inflation will reduce the game's overhead and play drag.


That's about it for now. Tell you more after running it.
 
Help make Combat Mastery happen: If you like the idea of Combat Mastery, as outlined below, for fighters copy it onto your signature and add interesting combat maneuvers to the list. Two new examples could be throat punch or spit in eye. Combat Mastery: When a Fighter performs combat maneuvers such as bull rush, disarm, sunder, trip, hip toss, eye poke, ball kick, hair drag, blind with sand, slide down banister, swing on chandalier, walk on barrel, use enemy as shield, interpose self in front of arrow trying to kill wizard, intimidate, pick up kobold by the neck, etc, the minimum die result is 10. Fighter Combat Maneuvers: On a given round the fighter can bull rush, disarm, sunder, trip, hip toss, eye poke, ball kick, hair drag, blind with sand, slide down banister, swing on chandalier, walk on barrel, use enemy as shield, interpose self in front of arrow trying to kill wizard, intimidate, etc, in place of his/her move action. This is a nonattack action that might cause the fighter's opponent to be rendered prone, unarmed, blind for a round, etc, or otherwise grant the fighter advantage or his/her opponent disadvantage as the Fighter sees fit.
1. Definitely get rid of the drunken damage resistance. The first thing noted by a friend of mine was that drunken fist fights (punch = 1d4) are never going to end.
 



1d4 + str so might do damage or you can roll a 4 on the damage and a 1 on the DR no matter what they would end.  It might take forever but it would end.  Have you watched a drunken fight.  That is kinda how it goes.  any problem posed by the drunken DR is counteracted by the fact that only is exploitable if you are drunk 24/7 you don't get drunk by drinking at the start of the fight you are going into.  Alchohol doesn't work that fast.  If your player's characters are running around hammered all the time then you should just start making them make checks for menial tasks, they have disadvantage to all attacks and checks.  

"Oh you want to walk down the street gordamor?"
"You have been drinking and maintaining  level of intoxication for over a week now." 
"I'm gunna need you to give me a check for walking down the street"
"lets make that a balance check"
"And your second die roll is a nat one, awesome" 
"you make it five feet then fall straight on your face"
"I roll a d4 of damage and get a 4, go ahead and roll your DR"
"Oh you rolled a six so you didn't feel the hit" 

From there you can just start asking for more and more checks as the DM can call for a check any time he thinks there is a chance of failure.  You have been drunk for  week straight.  There is a chance of failure in everything you do.

Also dwarfs are immune to the condition unless it is created by non poison based magic.

although dialing it back to maybe a d4 of resist wouldn't be off the mark. 



2) a better variant on critical hit gamage..max damage is so anti climatic.

     
        



Lol, and rolling a 1 and getting below max damage on a crit in 3.5 isnt? That was WAY worse in my opnion.


My 5 are

1) Armor - This system needs to be reworked or at least explained. I'm so confused by their build on this.

2. Ray of Frost - Unlike magic missile, which most people are freaking out about, this is the spell I am concerned with. Turn after turn, keeping an enemy rooted in place? A smart group of players could EASILY break this

3) Rolling for Healing - Since I have played 4th edition, I have come to see how a set amount of healing is more favourable to rolling it. I posted this in another thread that it's like selling something. If you sell it well, then you did your job. No one is happy, just content. If you roll well then it did what it was supposed to do. If you sell something poorly, then people are dissapointed.  So rolling for healing only makes room for being dissapointed. There's no real GREAT result. So static healing just feel right.

4) ...wow I couldnt even make it to 5. I really like the design so far!


My two copper.


3. Inflation. Just say no. Why is searing light and other spells doing so much damage compared to earlier editions? Any attempt to curb inflation will reduce the game's overhead and play drag.

 



The reason that this is more powerful is because it never gets any stronger, unlike in previous editions. It seems that not a single spell, save magic missile, scales at all. I would be more afraid of these spells being left behind than being too strong.

My two copper.
1.) Intoxication shouldn't give any damage reduction at all, IMO. On top of what someone earlier said about drunken fistfights lasting forever, it also suggests that knifing someone in a tavern brawl will have absolutely no effect whatsoever, which is just silly.

2.) Specify that your AC is 10+armor bonus+other bonuses, instead of saying that your AC depends entirely on your armor (leather is 12+, etc etc). Why? One word: Unarmored. If your AC is almost entirely coming from your armor, then why isn't the Wizard's base AC 0? It's obvious that the AC is 10+armor bonus, so say so.

3.) Rolled hit points. I like what they did to mitigate this - a minimum HP gain equal to your CON bonus - but it's still not enough to fix how swingy the dice roll is gonna make it, especially for high-HP characters like fighters.

4.) Take Electrum coins back out. The CP/SP/GP system was really nice in that it was all in multiples of 10 and really really easy to calculate exchange rates. Putting Electrum in is like suddenly deciding that the inch is now a legit part of the Metric system.

5.) Crit damage needs to be bonus dice to roll. Max damage is nice, but I can do that on a normal hit. And the excitement of rolling a natural 20 on an attack has always been further increased by getting to roll lots of dice for damage - making it max damage actually takes away the opportunity to roll any dice for damage at all, which takes out a bunch of the excitement that nat 20 came with in the first place!



But I love the rules so much, from what I've seen so far, that I feel bad naming 5 things I think are bad, so I feel like I also have to point out at least one thing that I feel is amazing and needs to stay forever:

Advantage/disadvantage. Some people say that this mechanic needs tweaking, and that may be true, but just the concept itself takes out so much needless complexity. An example that springs readily to mind is armor check penalties - in 3e (not sure how this worked in 4e, never played it) it was such a pain to remember which armor had which armor check penalties, and masterwork armor would change it again, and it affected some abilities and not others...but in this version, wearing medium or heavy armor gives you disadvantage on stealth-related rolls. Simple as that. No more confusion. Glorious.
With the knowledge that "Hit Dice" (i.e., surges) are an optional part of the system, and that alternate HP recovery rates are being provided, I'm left with only one major issue: infinite auto-damage. Both the Fighter and the Wizard have this type of attacks, and any character can (and will, once character construction is available) get either one -- why bother with with ranged weapons if you can have an auto-hit, high damage spell? For melee characters it might lead to combos where high AC and DR are used at the expense of attack, knowing that as long as the character can avoid blows, he's still going to inflict some damage. This leads to boring fights.
End of the line, infinite auto-damage needs to go away.
To be more constructive, I'd change the Reaper feat to add even more damage on a hit (although I fear it might become a tax feat), and reformulate Magic Missile as a first level spell.
Well, actually I'd reduce cantrip to minor effects, and give wizards more 1st level slots if needed for balance.

Other than that, there are minor issues such as what appear to be inconsistencies between the character sheets and the weapon/armor listings (finesse weapons not using the higher bonus, odd change in greataxe damage), and "suspicious" elements such as the sneak attack feature (seems overpowered).

On the plus side, spells other than cantrip look good, rituals are finally done well, advantage/disadvantage seems a good idea and less unbalanced than one might think, in the end is not much more than the 4e combat advantage and aid another bonuses, if taking into account that advantages do not stack.
1st. We need attacks of opportunity back. Reckless movement and highly focused actions must be penalized for doing in the fray of battle.

2nd. armor categories, bonuses, dex calculation, skill penalties all need much work.

3rd. still have no clue about skills, who gets how many, how will you improve them etc.

4th. Charge needs to get back in ASAP. Archers should look for cover, rubble, trees and whatnot to break the line of charge but should not get auto win on open plains.

5th. magic missile seems to much with auto hit. maybe and intelligence attack vs. touch AC would give the feel of aiming and accomplishment. 

 

Bold numbers are my real points, the other are comments.


1. Restoring all HD after an extended rest is fine, but you should not automatically regain all hps as well given the description of the 'below half hp'. I'd be fine with allowing regain of all hps if you are over half...


2. Yeah, the intoxicated thing takes 'feeling no pain' to an all new level - that needs work.


[...]


4. Comprehend Languages needs to be added to the spells that can be cast as rituals (as should most future utility spells as they are added).


1. Yes, it made me think on how recovering work in Alien vs Predator (2011) for the marine: 5 sector and you auto-recover only the lowest sector.

We could make that in a night you can auto-recover only to bloodied-value if more than 0 and to full if you had more than half HP.


2. OH MY... I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REDUCTION FOR INFLICTED DAMAGE!


No, no no, no... this is stupid! You are less able to fight, not to withstand damage! You only don't perceive them, but they are still there!



4. Completely agree...


1) Rolled hit points.  You're stuck with one roll for the lifetime of your character.  That's frustrating.  Replace with a flat system.
[...]

5)  The intoxicated condition definitely should not have a roll for damage reduction.  That's just a bunch of rolls we don't need.  Make it a flat -3 or something.


1. Agree...

5. Agree... but for GIVEN damage.


5) spell ranges are way crazy. 1oo feet for the majority of them, could we knock them down a bit 80 seems like a realistic range.
[...]
2) a better variant on critical hit gamage..max damage is so anti climatic.

1)bnetter math in describing how you determine attack and magic level bonuses.


5. I thought that too... but at least they are giving weapon the same treatment, and now they a lot more realistic.

I've made a futuristic campaign setting for 4e, and when I looked back for actual crossbow range to make the sinper rifle not too powerful I felt bad... in earlier edition, they were more realistic.


2. As I said many time in the past, rolling a double 1 is way worst. I think there will be bonus for magic weapon like 4th, and hoping there will be high-crit weapon with extra damage.


1. Agree... It's hard to understand if you have to hit or not... and you have to hit on AC even if the attack is a spell?


Why don't get 4th edition style? It's better if it's the player to hit a defense with a bonus given by his abilities and spell instead to let the DM doing all the work. I have to track down everything else, I roll enough dice, wizards roll fewer then average character. Distribuite rolls.
This is especially true when the wizard attacks a large group of enemies.


You've set a lovely mechanics for saving throws, I love it. But I feel they should work for after-effects, like Hold Person, for traps, special effects...


In this, I insert my last point (since there is a dedicated thread on armors):


X: I really hope that spells are written so bad, as long as many other rules, because this is a draft...


You guys made a splendid work with 4th edition handbook, under every aspect: page layout, colors, presentation... The rules are so clear that I can't find anything written better.
This document is horrific, some rules repeat themselves many times to express the same concept. Hell, critical is explained twice and only the second time we get that extra dice are also maxed out.


Power and monsters where the quintessence of readability and understandability. The layout perfect, if you have any doubt you can find easily what you need to know. Please, mantain the same level for spells.
You can give description for movements and the appareance of the effect in the... description. And range/radius in a dedicated section.


In the effect section we need to know what they do on the game mechanic side: we already get that the mage hand is spectral (unless you meant ethereal which really means something in game rules).


Hold person: is "struggle" an action cover by rules? No? Than say what we need to know, if it requires an action or not. (I prefer that these kind of saves will be better explained: do they require an action? When can you do that? At the start of your turn? At the end? At start of end of the caster turn?)


I feel that divine spells have less or none repetition, so I think it's just a refinement work.



Thanks.

I will add a point I found interesting regarding the coup de grace rule:

As it stands, if you hit the target, you slay it outright, reducing its hp to 0.

This may be problematic, however.  Consider a creature that is purposefully designed to be easy to hit but have bucketloads of hitpoints, like a hulking brute that gets smacked by the fighter round after round but keeps coming.

Find that same creature asleep?  It is as easy (or perhaps easier) to kill than a goblin in one strike.

Personally I found nothing wrong with the old coup de grace grants free critical hit.  This made incentive for the fighter to walk up and smash the thing as hard as possible, rather than someone trying to hit it with a rock and kill it.

I am also interested in what other people thought of this rule?  Perhaps I am over thinking it.
Just a couple of responses

1) Magic Missle damage and no attack roll -> This is one of the things that was brought up repeadetly in edition war threads.  I think that we might see an adjustment to its damage but magic missle is going to be an auto hit.  Its also going to be always available.

2) Crits shouldn't do anything more than max damage.  The problem with 3.X crits was that they were like getting an extra attack. 

3) I don't think that skills, saves, attack rolls, defenses, or really anything except damage and hit points advance that much across the game.  This is an interesting math fix but we do need to see more about the games math in order to know this for sure.

My 5 things I want to see changed:
1) Rogue needs lots of work.  His abilities are all edge cases anyway and they need to more clearly be advantages.

2) Fighter needs work.  The fact that his character sheet fits on one page while all the others pretty much take up all of 2 is extremely disapointing.  I think there are compromise positions between people who don't want encounter/daily type powers on the fighter/martial types and people who want more intreicate fighters.  Basically, the game HAS to have a fighter who is in all ways as complex as a wizard.  Even if his powers are all at wills, he would just have a stunning number of them.

3) Rolled hit points seem problematic, possibly extremly so. 

4) Not enough healing without a cleric.  I don't particularly care for a simulationist playstyle.  If my group doesn't have a healer it should be possible to play with the hit dice mechanic.  Instead the stupid healers kit is more of a block than a help.  Further, second wind, at least for the rogue and fighter REALLY needs to return.

5) Bonus control -> Advantage/Disadvantage is brilliant.  DO NOT REMOVE THIS.  Instead there needs to be a LOT more control of bonus from other sources.
1. Definitely get rid of the drunken damage resistance. The first thing noted by a friend of mine was that drunken fist fights (punch = 1d4) are never going to end.
 



1d4 + str so might do damage or you can roll a 4 on the damage and a 1 on the DR no matter what they would end.  It might take forever but it would end.  Have you watched a drunken fight.  That is kinda how it goes.  any problem posed by the drunken DR is counteracted by the fact that only is exploitable if you are drunk 24/7 you don't get drunk by drinking at the start of the fight you are going into.  Alchohol doesn't work that fast.  If your player's characters are running around hammered all the time then you should just start making them make checks for menial tasks, they have disadvantage to all attacks and checks.  

"Oh you want to walk down the street gordamor?"
"You have been drinking and maintaining  level of intoxication for over a week now." 
"I'm gunna need you to give me a check for walking down the street"
"lets make that a balance check"
"And your second die roll is a nat one, awesome" 
"you make it five feet then fall straight on your face"
"I roll a d4 of damage and get a 4, go ahead and roll your DR"
"Oh you rolled a six so you didn't feel the hit" 

From there you can just start asking for more and more checks as the DM can call for a check any time he thinks there is a chance of failure.  You have been drunk for  week straight.  There is a chance of failure in everything you do.

Also dwarfs are immune to the condition unless it is created by non poison based magic.

although dialing it back to maybe a d4 of resist wouldn't be off the mark. 

I am planning on having any torchbearers and porters I bring with me remain drunk and will constantly Dodge.  +4 AC, -1d6 damage.  Then they can carry my dead body home along with the treasure we collect.

One tweak to the Intoxicated condition is that it should grant Advantage to any opponent as well as giving you Disadvantage. 
Some of these will be things others have said or things I have said in other places butwha the heck maybe it will get through

1) Light/medium/heavy armor- needs fixed in a bad sort of way- as it stands now the best fighters will be ultra-high dex swashbuckler types and while I think there is a place for such characters they should not be hands down the best fighter

2) Better guidelines on what provides advantage/disadvantage

3)  Magic missile- okay we know the iconic mm is 1d4+1 scaling with level autohit but making it an at will 1d4+1 scaling autohit is a bit much imo especially when you've gotten rid of scaling for other spells (3a I also think ray of frost imobilize is a bit much -maybe slowed but that doesn't concern me as much as the mm does)

4)  Racial bonuses - not a huge fan of immunities to some races -also not a fan of human's LACK of bonuses even if they have some hidden bonuses that we can't see (like +1 to all stats) those are not as interesting to me as the flavor of some of the other stuff.

5) Intoxicated DR- no.  I understand that pain threshold etc are part of taking damage but including the DR for being intoxicated offends me mightily.  It would be fairly easy to create a wizard who rarely if ever has to roll attacks (instead making his opponent roll saves or using autohit spells like MM) and doesn't suffer much from the intended drawback but benefits from the DR- so just say no to drunken wizards.
 
The reason that this is more powerful is because it never gets any stronger, unlike in previous editions. It seems that not a single spell, save magic missile, scales at all. I would be more afraid of these spells being left behind than being too strong.


From the Legends & Lore articles, and also the general spell rules in the packet, it sounds like the intent is to give these spells a greater effect if you prep them in a higher-level spell slot, and those rules simply aren't implemented yet because we only have two levels to work with.  Magic missile scales because it's a cantrip and can't be prepped in a higher-level slot.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

Find that same creature asleep?  It is as easy (or perhaps easier) to kill than a goblin in one strike.


Isn't that the point of a coup-de-grace?  I don't care how big something is, if you unimpeded access to its carotid artery, it should be easier to kill than a goblin that's actively trying to avoid you.
1) Long rest healing, armor, and intoxicated have all been discussed.

2) Crit hits. Throughout my playing time, we have done damage x2, extra attack, and double damage dice. Usually double dice. There is nothing like a fighter getting a crit only to roll double 1's. I wouldn't mind seening max + damage roll.

Magic Missile at 1d4+1 and auto hit has always been the way to go. Now with unlimited uses creates the issue.  The # of missles has changed.

Ray of frost does require an attack roll, and I didn't see anything about touch attacks. My mages are always bad at attack rolls with spells (but great with daggers and staves, go figure).

3) Hit points with level. Starting with Con + HD is a good way to start. I don't mind how they have it, but I always liked the HD+Con bonus.

4) Index - With any new set of rules an index is always helpful. Advantage is in the rule book many times.

5) Multiple sources for rules. While it is fine to have them on the char. sheets, it would be nice to have the casting and turning undead (class features) in the main pdf.

There are other things I would like to see, but I figure I will learn them when the char. gen. material is released.
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
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Find that same creature asleep?  It is as easy (or perhaps easier) to kill than a goblin in one strike.


Isn't that the point of a coup-de-grace?  I don't care how big something is, if you unimpeded access to its carotid artery, it should be easier to kill than a goblin that's actively trying to avoid you.




You misunderstand me.  What I mean is that, it shouldn't be easier to kill the hulking brute while its asleep than it is to kill a goblin that is asleep.
You misunderstand me.  What I mean is that, it shouldn't be easier to kill the hulking brute while its asleep than it is to kill a goblin that is asleep.


I'm afraid I still don't understand you.  How is a sleeping goblin harder to kill than a sleeping ogre?  The same coup-de-grace rules apply to both.
1. Definitely get rid of the drunken damage resistance. The first thing noted by a friend of mine was that drunken fist fights (punch = 1d4) are never going to end.
 



1d4 + str so might do damage or you can roll a 4 on the damage and a 1 on the DR no matter what they would end.  It might take forever but it would end.  Have you watched a drunken fight.  That is kinda how it goes.  any problem posed by the drunken DR is counteracted by the fact that only is exploitable if you are drunk 24/7 you don't get drunk by drinking at the start of the fight you are going into.  Alchohol doesn't work that fast.  If your player's characters are running around hammered all the time then you should just start making them make checks for menial tasks, they have disadvantage to all attacks and checks.  

"Oh you want to walk down the street gordamor?"
"You have been drinking and maintaining  level of intoxication for over a week now." 
"I'm gunna need you to give me a check for walking down the street"
"lets make that a balance check"
"And your second die roll is a nat one, awesome" 
"you make it five feet then fall straight on your face"
"I roll a d4 of damage and get a 4, go ahead and roll your DR"
"Oh you rolled a six so you didn't feel the hit" 

From there you can just start asking for more and more checks as the DM can call for a check any time he thinks there is a chance of failure.  You have been drunk for  week straight.  There is a chance of failure in everything you do.

Also dwarfs are immune to the condition unless it is created by non poison based magic.

although dialing it back to maybe a d4 of resist wouldn't be off the mark. 

I am planning on having any torchbearers and porters I bring with me remain drunk and will constantly Dodge.  +4 AC, -1d6 damage.  Then they can carry my dead body home along with the treasure we collect.

One tweak to the Intoxicated condition is that it should grant Advantage to any opponent as well as giving you Disadvantage. 



how much does the torch bearer cost, how is he at stealth, how much does the alchohol needed to keep him drunk cost and weigh.  

Everyone claiming that people will remain blitzed all the time to reap some sort of benefit neglect the effects it has on every other portion of the character and the campaign in general.  The only way someone can walk around drunk all the time is if the whole group allows that to happen.  disadvantage at all tasks is freakin crazy, but it mkaes sense, and like I said the DM can always say you have been drunk for a week even menial tasks like opening a door have a chance of failure anything you try to do requires a check. 

Maybe some defined rules on alchohol would be good.

something like:

It takes a number of drinks equal to your con mod to cause a con save vs intoxication (DC set by specific beverage). so if you have an 18 con every 4 drinks you need to make a con save vs becoming intoxicated.

so lets say the drink you are drinking is beer lets make it a halfway decent beer and go with DC 12 for its dificulty.   
you have an 18 con
every 4 drinks you make a con save vs a DC 12

now add on to that a duration that is also drink specific beer will get you trashed for lets say 30 minutes when it finally gets to workin.

Now because no matter what you can always get drunk off anything if you drink enough fast enough we can make it so that if you drink enough fast enough there are negetives.

lets say every con mod drinks even if you pass you have a -2 to all checks vs alchohol/intoxication for the next (drink effect duration)

so an alchohol entry could look like:

Beer Cost:2 gold
DC 12
duration 30 minutes(300 rounds)

that means for a non dwarf with an 18 con they need 4 beers within 30 minutes to need to make a con save vs DC 12
if they pass they have a -2 to alchohol checks for the next 30 minutes if they fail they are intoxicated for the next 30 minutes.  All alchohol negetives to alchohol checks are removed once you become intoxicated.

Oddly enough this does make it potentially easier to stay drunk for a while since after the first failed save you will havve disadvantage for all subsequent checks that take place during your period of intoxication.  Hpwever it still takes 8 gold to even try to get drunk and with an 18 con you have a decent chance at staying sober to drive up the initial cost.  then it will continue to take 8 gold to keep extending it effectively in order to stay drunk all day long you would need(assumes 8 hours of sleep although that would possibly change) 64 gold a day minimum.

also some rules on how to make it so that staying intoxicated for to long makes you in fact pass out, maybe if you drink your con score in drinks while you are intoxicated you need to make a con save vs Unconsciousness. 

Or maybe you could play an actual character that isn't a **** and not try to game the system by being drunk all the time (unless your group is cool with it in which case go for it and don't worry about the afformentioned alchohol rules I just made up).   If you just want the porters to have DR all the time then just give it to them without making them drunk and disadvantaged at all times.  If everyone agrees to it then there is no problem with that.

You could also make up your own alchohol rules.  You may think it should work differently.  It never actually goes over how becoming intoxicated works so you can codify it all on your own. 
I actually like Magic Missle being a cantrip and crits being simply max damage.

That said, I'm sure I can think of at least five things that need tweaking.

1) Random hit points is a big no-no in my book. My character's max HP is too important to be left to chance.

2) I think that Sneak Attack should scale more slowly and that characters should get advantage (and thus Rogues would get Sneak Attack) from flanking.

3) I think they should codify Standard, Move, and Minor actions again. That's just too useful to pass up.

4) Monsters should have levels or CR or something that tells the DM which ones are appropriate for what level of party.

5) There needs to be rules for Bull Rush, Grapple etc, or at the very least Charge. I like the 4E charge rules.

I'm afraid I still don't understand you.  How is a sleeping goblin harder to kill than a sleeping ogre?  The same coup-de-grace rules apply to both.



Say, for example, a goblin has an AC of 12.  But there is a hulking brute creature with 200 hp with an AC of 10.  The hulking brute is easier to kill with a coup de grace than the goblin, because its HP isn't taken into account at all, simply how hard it is to beat its AC.

I admit it is a minor issue (and possibly a non issue) but I thought it was interesting.
3) I think they should codify Standard, Move, and Minor actions again. That's just too useful to pass up.


I'm inclined to agree.  Even if they cut back on the proliferation of minor and out-of-turn actions among most classes, the action budget should still be built into the core rules.

4) Monsters should have levels or CR or something that tells the DM which ones are appropriate for what level of party.


That puzzled me at first as well.  But I remembered reading in Legends & Lore or somewhere that they're looking at an "XP budget" system for encounters instead.  So the DMG might say that a 600-XP encounter is an appropriate moderate challenge for 5th-level PCs.  You could fill that budget with one 600-XP monster, three 200-XP monsters, or twenty 30-XP monsters.  These wouldn't all work in 4e, but with the flatter math of 5e they just might.
Here's my five, from the actual playtest:

1.) Magic Missile looks problematic as a cantrip.  It might scale with the fighter -- we don't know how much damage the fighter will do at level 9 -- so I'm not worried about that.  But it's really good compared to shocking grasp, and it will quickly outpace other spells like burning hands.  I don't know if the solution is to make the other cantrips scale better, or if its to make magic missile a proper spell, but something feels... off.

2.) Either attacking needs to end your movement, or there needs to be some form of AoO for solid melee characters.  I'm fine with either.  AoO for "retreating only" would be much better than the giant list of AoO conditions in 3.5, and could be made much simpler than the mess of immediate actions a swordmage gets in 4e.  Anything to prevent PCs from breaking formation, running up, hitting a monster, than dashing back into formation.  As one player put it "everyone has spring attack!"  Yeah, let's not do that.

3.) We need clarification on the Defender feat.  Does it need to be called before or after the first die roll.

4.) The rogue needs some ways to get advantage, besides taking a standard action to hide.

5.)  Everything in the market place feels off.  So, hobgoblins have 2d6 silver on them as a rule, but there's a barrel of 60 spears which retail for 3 gp each, and they all carry scale mail at 50 gp each?  The armor section makes heavy armour feel useless compared to medium armor for anyone with even a moderate bit of dexterity.  The 1000 gp spyglass is a bizzare holdover.   Most importantly, the gp seems to be the default unit from the get go, which makes players crazy rich.

I know D&D isn't supposed to be simulationist, but it would be nice if the ecnomomy... for once in the many editions... came out with a basic outlining of typical wages available for various trade jobs (like the trade that the rogue can get) and let us translate money into our own terms.  What is a gp in 2012 dollars.  Is it like $100?  When you see a pile of copper coins, is that like a pile of pennies, or a pile of dollar coins?

Also, a section on looting and the local ecnomy would be nice.  When the party tries to dump 8 longswords and 60 spears looted from their adventuring, what happens?
I see crit damage is often mentioned.
max damage isen't spectacular

my sugestion would be give all magic weapons effects that happen on a crit. 
Am I the only one happy with Magic Missile? I think it's great as a cantrip, and fits the game balance fine. The fighter, at first level, deals a minimum of 3 damage to everyone he attacks. Not hits, attacks. Keeping that in mind, MM cantrip makes sense.

On-topic, I don't have 5 yet. I haven't actually done the playtest, so something might come to me when I do. Oh, the math on medium armor makes it almost always useless. If those AC numbers can't change too much, then drop down light armor bonuses or drop medium armor altogether and give the half dex to heavy armor.

  1. No random hit points, please!

  2. Give Fighters more options, or explicit bonuses to improvised manuevers (grapple, disarm, etc)

  3. Give Advantage for flanking to allow rogue sneak attack (maybe only allow rogues to get advantage from flanking? i'm not sure here.)

  4. Backgrounds need a little better "baseline". They come with a generally specified set of skills/perks, but not all skills are equally useful.  The Rogue background skills, from Commoner, are trash. I'd recommend some sort of 1/2 skill value, where some skills are only really worth 1/2 a slot, and so they get two lesser skills.  I think the Knight background actually shows this reasonably well, where the pretty lame (though fluffy!) Heraldric lore is also paired with the lame (but fluffy!) Knights Station benefit. I think the Priest and Sage backgrounds are nice baselines. Four pretty decent skills, and a nice fluffy benefit.  The Soldier would be perfect if it had one more skill (maybe Athletics?). 

  5. Human's deserve a bonus, or other races need penalties (which I'm not actually advocating).


I do think the weapons and armors need some love, but I'm not looking at them directly as rules yet. 
I like most of what I see, but what I would improve:

1. I agree that there needs to be some penalty for moving through a threatened square.  Someone else suggested an extra 5 ft of movement or you get an OA.

2. Armor needs to be looked at.  Why would I buy Ringmail?  It's more expensive and inferior in all ways to studded leather.  If I have even a 12 dex, a Chain Shirt is superior to Chainmail, etc.

3. Ray of Frost seems like it could be boring/abused.  It would make it difficult to have set up a big brute fight - the wizard would just lock it down every round while everyone else just throws ranged attacks. 

4. It may be too early to tell, but it seems like cantrips and minor spells other than magic missile should scale somehow.  At higher levels, shocking grasp and burning hands should still be solid attacks.

5. It looks like rogue sneak attack damage will scale too quickly if it just keeps adding like it does.  Also, it might be difficult for a creature other than halflings to be stealthy enough.  The halfing can hide behind his buddies for sneak attack every round.
I feel like people are getting way to worried about armor. Look at the points about attributes. 10s are average human, 18s are peak human, anything between that and 29 are monsters 30 and up are gods and demi gods. Stat growth doesn't seem like it'll be the same in this edition. I think the armor rules fit very well for the flavor and for practical use. The rogue is currently sitting at 15 armor and it'll take him a while into playing to get any higher than that. 

This is all speculation from reading how they worded the stats and the DC catagories. I feel like PC's will be getting a lot less stat boosts in this edition. The DC section even makes it seem that way. I mean if you roll a  27 you are a completing a task that only a demigod can do, as per what the rules for DC's say.

I understand why you are conserned but if you read the flavor of the rules I think you'll see that I won't be that big of an issue.  
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