Lvl/HD bonuses to "Checks" are gone now, correct?

Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything during my initial read through of the play test documents. But I don't recall seeing anywhere that you add a +1 per Level and or Hit Dice of the Character/Monster to dice check rolls as was done in 4th Edition.

Is this correct, or did I miss something.

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Not sure how I feel about it if they have been removed from D&D Next. It just seem "right" to me to get better at things as you leveled up. As well as a flat, across the board +1 to all checks per level gained was a very simple mechanic to impliment and calculate.

Is this an oversite, or is it intentional by the designers of the PlayTest doc?

I recall on another thread some comments about how even a 1 Hit Dice Orc would be able to hit a lvl 20 Fighter just as easily (more or less) as a lvl 20 Daemon (baring feets or other mechanics we haven't seen implimented yet).
Dirty Deeds, DONE DIRT CHEAP!







I recall on another thread some comments about how even a 1 Hit Dice Orc would be able to hit a lvl 20 Fighter just as easily (more or less) as a lvl 20 Daemon (baring feets or other mechanics we haven't seen implimented yet).



But the 1 HD Orc will have less relative effect on said Fighter. Removes the need for explicit Minion classes of creatures since creatures will become irrelevent as threats as you level passed them.

At least, that is how I understand the goal. 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Yeah, it "seemed" right to get a +1 bonus as you leveled up, but since the DCs just went up as well, it might as well be nothing. I like this system better. A) it doesn't waste space throwing in something that actually does nothing and B) it feels old school.
You are correct, if you are trained in a skill, you get a +3 bonus to ability checks when using them for that task. After that, there are no rules so far for how to improve in it beyond the initial training. However, keep in mind that we do not have the full rules yet, and that they have hinted that there will be other ways to increase your bonuses to skills. If I recall correctly, they propsed the idea of gaining an additional background-esque package of skills and other such bennys at level 6, I think. Also, I believe they mentioned that if you gain training in a skill you are already trained in, you get an additional +1 to it (for a total of +4) rather than the full +3.

None of this is in the playtest, obviously, since it only covers the rules needed to run these five characters up to level 3. But I read it somewhere, it was either an L&L or an interview with someone... I'll see if I can find the source for you.

EDIT: Oh wait, do you mean to attack and/or damage rolls? Nope, not from what we've seen in the play test. But these characters are only like 6.6% of the way up the level progression track, assuming a cap of 20, and we don't even know if that will be the case yet. Patience grasshopper, you may get your to hit bonuses yet. 








I recall on another thread some comments about how even a 1 Hit Dice Orc would be able to hit a lvl 20 Fighter just as easily (more or less) as a lvl 20 Daemon (baring feets or other mechanics we haven't seen implimented yet).



But the 1 HD Orc will have less relative effect on said Fighter. Removes the need for explicit Minion classes of creatures since creatures will become irrelevent as threats as you level passed them.

At least, that is how I understand the goal. 



The point of minions was that they were NOT "irrelevent as threats". You could mow them down easily, but they still had appropriate damage, defenses, and to-hit to be a match for the characters. Creatures that cause irrelevent damage and have pitiful hitpoints compared to the characters will just be a waste of time, not to mention how certain creatures will always have too many hitpoints to give the "mowing down the horde" effect of minions. What if I want to show how strong the party has become by letting them blast through ogres? "Just throw an orc at your level 15 party" is not a good replacement for minions.
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
zgrose & masqueofhasutur I hear ya both too.

I'm 51%/49% against/for the change. I'm sure I'll be swayed in the end if the new way is the correct case.

As long as the math is sound I'll be happy.
Dirty Deeds, DONE DIRT CHEAP!
Also remember that a high level character will do a lot more damage and have more hit points than a low level orc so the high level character will still be able to mop the floor with low level monsters even though his attack bonus doesn't improve much. Keep in mind that hit points, particularly in DDN, are an abstraction of how hard it is to land a killing blow on something. So the more hit points a fighter has the longer he can defend himself before a serious hit lands. Likewise the more damage the fighter does "per hit" the more likely it is each round that the fighter will land a killing blow.


So in DDN it's not how often you "hit" but how many hit points your opponent loses per hit that's the big factor seperating low level from high level. 

The point of minions was that they were NOT "irrelevent as threats".



agreed, bad choice of words

 You could mow them down easily,but they still had appropriate damage, defenses, and to-hit to be a match for the characters.



agree, disagree, agree, agree

Minions do damage, and perhaps it hinges on what you mean by appropriate, but a 4e minion isn't doing as much as a standard creature of the same role.

What if I want to show how strong the party has become by letting them blast through ogres? "Just throw an orc at your level 15 party" is not a good replacement for minions.



Well true, you can't minion-ize creatures "early" in DDN. I'm not sure that's a bad thing though.

"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387

Well true, you can't minion-ize creatures "early" in DDN. I'm not sure that's a bad thing though.




Why not?

I mean that in a non sarcastic way (to much of that on the forums). I mean litterally just give the mob 1hp and use the same stat block otherwise. Then just make them 1/10th the normal exp?
Dirty Deeds, DONE DIRT CHEAP!
Sure. Let me re-phrase: WotC doesn't appear to provide the 4e Minion mechanic out-of-the-box for those people that only like playing in-the-box.

I'm not a big fan of level 15 kobolds and 1 hp level 15 demons so I like where they seem to be going with this *but* I haven't had a chance to try it out and I'd be interested to see how it plays out as it scales up towards max level (material not available yet).


"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387