## Feet and squares

Luis_Carlos
Joined Jun 2006
3618 Posts
I´m Spanish and here we use metric system. I would rather using squares that feets.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius

Yeah, there's no reason for not giving us both measures (unless they are afraid that if they say "square" somewhere, they are going to drive some grognards away).
orebs
Joined Dec 1969
Never thought about metrics but now i see how much of a pain in the butt it is
ludanto
Joined Dec 1969
Just an idea, not feet, not meters, not squares.

"Paces".

A "real world" relative measure.  What's a "pace"?  It's a square, or 5 feet, or 1 meter.  Whatever.

Yes, I know a meter is more less than 5 feet.  It doesn't matter as long as it's close-ish and everybody is using the same measure.
Don't see that much of a problem converting feet into squares, or squares into feet. I will be playing TotM style so "square" doesn't mean anything to me, but I can easily convert it to feet in my head. I think I lean a bit towards using squares, just because it's a little more universally applicable.

^^^^ Creating another word to house all those measurements would be same difference to me. But "pace" means one step. 5ft is a big step, and 1 meter is even bigger. Any immersion benefit you get from reading paces instead of squares kind of gets washed away by it's meaning IMO.
Quick point: 1 meter is not bigger than 5 ft.

I think putting squares next to the ft. numbers is a great idea.  Dividing by 5 isn't hard, but it is an extra step of math that slows down the game.
Actually, a "pace" is two steps, not 1.  The word is derived from latin: passuus.  As in "mille passus" (thousand paces) the root for the word mile (which is 5280 feet).  Wikipedia actually has a pretty good definition of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_(unit)
ludanto
Joined Dec 1969
Quick point: 1 meter is not bigger than 5 ft.

I think putting squares next to the ft. numbers is a great idea.  Dividing by 5 isn't hard, but it is an extra step of math that slows down the game.

Doh.  Meant that the other way around.  5 feet is about 1 and 1/2 meters.  Fixed.

And yes, "pace" and "square" are just words, but if you never use a grid then "pace" sounds less weird.

Actually, a "pace" is two steps, not 1.  The word is derived from latin: passuus.  As in "mille passus" (thousand paces) the root for the word mile (which is 5280 feet).  Wikipedia actually has a pretty good definition of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_(unit)

Well there you go!  Now a pace is closer to 5 feet / 1 meter!

I don't care either way, but it does seem like an easy way to avoid the imperial / metric divide.
Quick point: 1 meter is not bigger than 5 ft...

Haha, whoops. I blame Ludanto, he was my source.

Actually, a "pace" is two steps, not 1. The word is derived from latin: passuus. As in "mille passus" (thousand paces) the root for the word mile (which is 5280 feet). Wikipedia actually has a pretty good definition of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_(unit)

New Oxford American Dictionary said: "a single step taken when walking or running." I admit, I read "single step" not thinking about how that is bigger while you're in the middle of moving. But a walking step still feels smaller than 5ft to me. (Unless I'm power walking.)

Oh well, as I said it's same difference measurement wise. (1 square = 1 pace. Not much math there.) However, it should be noted in the book that it's a human pace, cuz not everyone in D&D is human sized.
D&D has always used feet, so it makes sense to stick with it. Although if it were all based around multiples of 3', so you could just use yards instead, and pretend a yard is a meter (as long as it's done consistently), that would help those using a metric system. Of course that would bump all squares up to 6' instead of 5.

Given that all the other options are complicated, I'm fine with just keeping feet as is. Compatibility sometimes trumps logic.
wpgdave
Joined Dec 1969
I prefer using the term "space".  If using a grid one space = one square or one hex (allows for different kinds of grids).  And what's a space from an in-character perspective?  It's your "personal space": the physical space immediately surrounding someone, into which any encroachment feels threatening to or uncomfortable for them.
I actually like that they've removed references to squares altogether.  It means that if you want to change the scale, you can.  Buildings in 4e especially were ludicrously gigantic because you needed them to be a certain size to maneuver at all.  A small inn in the game would be the size of a small mansion in real life, and churches in many modules were the size of a stadium.

On the other hand, I haven't yet seen a rule about how much space a person takes up.  Haven't finished digesting everything yet, though.

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book
The Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.

I actually like that they've removed references to squares altogether.  It means that if you want to change the scale, you can.  Buildings in 4e especially were ludicrously gigantic because you needed them to be a certain size to maneuver at all.  A small inn in the game would be the size of a small mansion in real life, and churches in many modules were the size of a stadium.

On the other hand, I haven't yet seen a rule about how much space a person takes up.  Haven't finished digesting everything yet, though.

In the DM Guidelines book it has info on how much space you take up, and it uses the numbers from 4E.  So small and medium take up a 5 ft square (see, it is just a word, don't be scared).

You can change the scale even if the standard battle square is 5 ft. on a side.  The rules are guidelines, nothing more.  Buildings in 4E were only big if you needed them to be big.  There was no rule saying you couldn't have a fight occur in an inn that was 20 ft. long and 30 feet wide.

edwin_su
Joined Aug 2007
6105 Posts
5 feet = 1.524 m = 1 unit
( I use unit as this aplies to hexes squares and mesured inches.)
and we round down to 1.5 M

in the PHB i would like to see the notation 5 feet/1 .
and a short rule somwhere that 5 feet is 1,5 meters.

the digital character builer ( i have no doubr there eventualy will be one )
should have the option to display meters instead of feet if you so desire.
and the option to remove the unit notation if you don't use a grid or hexes.

there should be rules for characters partly in a area of effect.

and wizards should sell us nice durable templates for the most comonly used area of effects.