spell format

I dont know if its just becaue of the fact its a playtest but the format of the spells is not good.

1) put ALL spells first in each classes section (even if they repeat), then order them by the level they are gained.

2) lay them out clearly, something like this:




spell name


fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff  fluff 


level X


[keyword 1] [keyword 2]

area: (if a area spell, type of area and size of it, for example "15 foot sphere")

range: XXXft

duration: (what duration the spells has, or instantaneous if its like fireball)

target: (what spell targets, enimies whatever)

save or ranged attack: (if its a ranged attack or a save, if save what type, if you can save for half, "int save for half")

effect: (what happens, "2d4 fire damage, things in area caught on fire")
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
And don´t forget duration, the length of time effects remain.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

Yeah, not having access to a brief rundown of a spell's effect in the wizard and clerics sheet threw me off. I had to go digging through the main section of the .pdf to find it. I understand, though, that the actual 5e game will have spells laid out in it much like it is in the playtest .pdf, with all the magic at the back of the book (Like 3rd edition, how about that!!)

All the DMs need to do is make sure that their players have a couple of copies of the spell lists to pass around before and during the game, and they'll be kosher for the playtest!
Why dont use dnd4 format for spells?
We have, for exemple, read all the spell text for founding spells can be played in reaction.

ok, its a play test, but using dnd3 spell description format is not a good idea.

I don't really see a big issue. Since the spell list is pretty short at this time, it won't be hard to just write up a quick reference sheet of the mechanical effects of each spell, and if the gygaxian prose keeps the people who are into that sort of thing happy, I'm willing to put in a little extra effort to filter through the fluff.
Agreed. The 4E format is much clearer and easy to parse.
waterfairy21,
Ergonomy is very important. It's the difference between used thing and unused thing.
Yet I find this just as clear and more pleasfull to read. And it gives what I belive is a better bind between fluff and mechanics.
At very least, color code the at-wills.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Range, duration, etc. should definitely be separated from the bulk text for ease of reference during play.
Yet I find this just as clear and more pleasfull to read. And it gives what I belive is a better bind between fluff and mechanics.



dont forget it is much easier for new players to understand the spells if you have them put in a format that is easy to read.

the biggest reason though is speed, I want to be able to quickly read through a spells and know what it does and how it does it. if I want to know the range of fireball, it should take no longer then looking up the fireball spell (which of course is under wizard, then with spells of its level) and looking at what is after "range:"

it means you dont have to parce through 2 paragraphs to find one number.

-----

and for the love of all that is holy do NOT have spells reference other spells (like say lesser restoration "this is like restoration but you gain back 5 hp per level instead of 1") each spell should be self contained
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
Spells should also be listed under their own class.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

if I want to know the range of fireball, it should take no longer then looking up the fireball spell (which of course is under wizard, then with spells of its level) and looking at what is after "range:"



And looking it up in alphabetical list by name is faster since it doesn't rely on you remembering which class and level it is to find it, which since your looking it up implies its a spell you don't have memorised or use a lot. And requires only printing once even if used by multiple classes, which lowers word count and opportunity for typos.
if I want to know the range of fireball, it should take no longer then looking up the fireball spell (which of course is under wizard, then with spells of its level) and looking at what is after "range:"



And looking it up in alphabetical list by name is faster since it doesn't rely on you remembering which class and level it is to find it, which since your looking it up implies its a spell you don't have memorised or use a lot. And requires only printing once even if used by multiple classes, which lowers word count and opportunity for typos.



because if I want to look at the wizard class I want to be able to look through wizard spells, it should not take 20mins to look at every level 1 wizard spell because I have to flip through the entire book 10 times.

besides if I am wizard, it is kind of easy to know what class to look through.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
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