Humans suck again?!

It's pretty clear cut that the dwarf, elf, and halfling get some cool racial abilities, but the human looks like he got the shaft.  Humans don't see to get any bonus feat or skill points or skill bonuses, or anything.  They appear to be a plain jane, dull race like they were back in 2nd edition.  No one played humans then and if my assumptions are correct and they did get screwed no one will play them now.  3rd, 3.5, 4th and Paizo all did something to address this, I hope this isn't an oversight.  
It's pretty clear cut that the dwarf, elf, and halfling get some cool racial abilities, but the human looks like he got the shaft.  Humans don't see to get any bonus feat or skill points or skill bonuses, or anything.  They appear to be a plain jane, dull race like they were back in 2nd edition.  No one played humans then and if my assumptions are correct and they did get screwed no one will play them now.  3rd, 3.5, 4th and Paizo all did something to address this, I hope this isn't an oversight.  

Well they really should think about something to make humans interesting - my favourite race/class combo (human/fighter) looks really lame... humans haven't been so dull for a long long time...

Ceterum censeo capsum rubeum esse delendam

The only thing I was able to notice was their stats were higher than everyone elses. Maybe they get additional stat points  Cool

Leroy Jethro Gibbs NCIS "A slap to the face is humiliating. A slap to the back of the head is a wake up call."

 

Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th Edition

The only thing I was able to notice was their stats were higher than everyone elses. Maybe they get additional stat points  Cool

Stil kinda lame.  Especially cause my group rolls for Stats, we don't use point buy.  Humans are a dull, blank peice of paper, and may as well be removed from the game if they don't do something to make them intresting.
The only thing I was able to notice was their stats were higher than everyone elses. Maybe they get additional stat points  Cool


That would be the only way I can see at this point that Humans would be worth taking, and even then I don't think it would be enough, as was mentioned above.

And before anyone says it: If someone comes on here and says "play a Human because you want to," I will hunt you down and destroy everything you love. 

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING! YOU SIR WIN THIS THREAD!
The only thing I was able to notice was their stats were higher than everyone elses. Maybe they get additional stat points  Cool

Stil kinda lame.  Especially cause my group rolls for Stats, we don't use point buy.  Humans are a dull, blank peice of paper, and may as well be removed from the game if they don't do something to make them intresting.



What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?

+1 to all abilities seems moderately powerful over time.  We'll see with play testing.
The only thing I was able to notice was their stats were higher than everyone elses. Maybe they get additional stat points  Cool


That would be the only way I can see at this point that Humans would be worth taking, and even then I don't think it would be enough, as was mentioned above.

And before anyone says it: If someone comes on here and says "play a Human because you want to," I will hunt you down and destroy everything you love. 

I agree with you.  I will help you hunt down any one that says play a human because you want to.  Further more why would you want to if they are lame.  You ARE a human after all and playing a dwarf, elf, half orc, ect is more intresting as you are a human.  3rd, and 4th make humans a viable race to play and despite being a human you get some cool perk for being on that makes them worth playing over their other more colorful and intresting counter parts.

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?
+1 to all abilities seems like a very human sort of bonus, and I don't think it sucks at all.  Humans are supposed to be the most flexible and adaptable race, and with ability scores not improving as much in the long term, those extra points will turn out to be a bigger deal than you might think.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?

Never got that myself.  Its like using feet instead of squares.  I have been playing since 2nd edition, and was happy when things changed from 30 feet to 6 squares.  It made targeting with AoE spells easier, as well as calculating ranged attack distance.  Good math design makes the game less number crunchy and more enjoyable for the role playing aspect, if you ask me.

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?

Never got that myself.  Its like using feet instead of squares.  I have been playing since 2nd edition, and was happy when things changed from 30 feet to 6 squares.  It made targeting with AoE spells easier, as well as calculating ranged attack distance.  Good math design makes the game less number crunchy and more enjoyable for the role playing aspect, if you ask me.
Humans are as smart as elves, as durable as dwarves, as quick as halfings and wiser, stronger and more charismatic too?
+1 to all abilities seems like a very human sort of bonus, and I don't think it sucks at all.  Humans are supposed to be the most flexible and adaptable race, and with ability scores not improving as much in the long term, those extra points will turn out to be a bigger deal than you might think.

A plus one or 2 to a stat would be a boon.  I'd like to point out I said that extra skill points would be lame as most people I know don't use a point buy system to generate stats.
Humans are as smart as elves, as durable as dwarves, as quick as halfings and wiser, stronger and more charismatic too?



Well, one's a pointy-eared, wimpy, tree-hugging freak, another's a stumpy, drunken grump and the third's a lazy shrimp who eats and smokes too much.


So yeah. ;)
Humans are as smart as elves, as durable as dwarves, as quick as halfings and wiser, stronger and more charismatic too?



Well, one's a pointy-eared, wimpy, tree-hugging freak, another's a stumpy, drunken grump and the third's a lazy shrimp who eats and smokes too much.


So yeah. ;)

Make fun of the elves and halfings all you want, but you leave my Dwarves alone! lol

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?



Well said.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
+1 to all abilities seems like a very human sort of bonus, and I don't think it sucks at all.  Humans are supposed to be the most flexible and adaptable race, and with ability scores not improving as much in the long term, those extra points will turn out to be a bigger deal than you might think.

A plus one or 2 to a stat would be a boon.  I'd like to point out I said that extra skill points would be lame as most people I know don't use a point buy system to generate stats.



Not that I support rolling stats, but ...

Couldn't you just roll the stats then add the point(s) somewhere?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?



What's with these people who think name calling is appropriate or even neccesary when discussing a game where a bunch of dudes or dudettes sit around a table and pretend to be wizards and knights and shiz?
+1 to all abilities seems like a very human sort of bonus, and I don't think it sucks at all.  Humans are supposed to be the most flexible and adaptable race, and with ability scores not improving as much in the long term, those extra points will turn out to be a bigger deal than you might think.

A plus one or 2 to a stat would be a boon.  I'd like to point out I said that extra skill points would be lame as most people I know don't use a point buy system to generate stats.



Not that I support rolling stats, but ...

Couldn't you just roll the stats then add the point(s) somewhere?

I suppose you could, and its better than a kick in the teeth but still not as enticing as dark vision, or a re-roll.  Extra feat was always an awesome bonus.
They would be really tough if they would get +1 to all ability scores, but I seriously doubt that.

Ceterum censeo capsum rubeum esse delendam

Since stats cap at 20, wouldn't +1 on everything account for something?
Since stats cap at 20, wouldn't +1 on everything account for something?

where did you read that stats cap at 20?

What ever happened to D&D being a role- (verses roll-) playing game?



What's with these morons who think good math/design somehow inhibits roleplaying?



What's with these people who think name calling is appropriate or even neccesary when discussing a game where a bunch of dudes or dudettes sit around a table and pretend to be wizards and knights and shiz?



This. ^^


On topic: What would be an example of a well done human race?


o Stat bonus? Obviously not (enough)? Done before.

o Skill bonus? Obviously not (enough)? Done before.

o A write-up with strange and exciting special abilities? Maybe, but wouldn't we lose the non-exotic standard race by that? Of course the classical counter is flexibility, adaptibility in racial powers/feats/multiclassing. Done before.

So how would you do it?            
It does seem like Humans are lackluster.  Sure, they're suppose to be middle ground but...so far they are bland.  If they only get a +1 to stats I mean it makes sense because of how Next seems to be set in terms of defenses it's equivalent to the +1 defense bonus they get now in 4e.  A +1 to those stats I think from my understanding of the rules in terms of being attacked, saving throws, etc, would give them a little extra edge over other races.  Though it does make me think that most of the max builds will be based on a human race because of the extra +1 to everything.

Nuorn-
A skill bonus could be nice, or some such.  Just because it's been done before doesn't make it anathema to being done again.  I mean look at the Dwarves and Elves, they keep the same basic traits from edition to edition pretty much.  Or at least from 4th to Next.  
Based on the stat blocks in the sample characters, it looks like Humans get a +1 to all abilities and then an additional +2 to an ability of their choice.  That seems pretty good to me.
Nuorn

  I think 4th ed handled it well, a feat, a skill bonus, and a def bonus.  I think Pathfinder hit the nail on the head as well with a +2 to one stat and a feat and skill bonus.  Those things really sell the idea of human diversity.  As far as new ideas, I always though breaking humans down into sub groups would be cool. (Aisan, Egyptian, African, ect for example) and haveing each ethnicity gain different racial bonuses.  That also sells the idea of diversity, and is part of what makes the human race so cool. 
Nuorn

  I think 4th ed handled it well, a feat, a skill bonus, and a def bonus.  I think Pathfinder hit the nail on the head as well with a +2 to one stat and a feat and skill bonus.  Those things really sell the idea of human diversity.  As far as new ideas, I always though breaking humans down into sub groups would be cool. (Aisan, Egyptian, African, ect for example) and haveing each ethnicity gain different racial bonuses.  That also sells the idea of diversity, and is part of what makes the human race so cool. 




LOL! Racisim problems really fast.
Bah, 'umies needed to get knocked down a few pegs...
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe

I was thinking less stat bonus but weapon or armor or skill bonus.
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe

I was thinking less stat bonus but weapon or armor or skill bonus.

Oh! Thats a neat idea .  I was just goofin around.
Based on the stat blocks in the sample characters, it looks like Humans get a +1 to all abilities and then an additional +2 to an ability of their choice.  That seems pretty good to me.

I'm actually thinking that "+2" is just an additional +1 to the favored stat of their class (it appears all classes give a +1 to their "main") stat.  So for the cleric 18 wisdom it was 15 from the array, +1 for general human bonus, +1 for class, +1 more for human class bonus. 
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe

I was thinking less stat bonus but weapon or armor or skill bonus.

Oh! Thats a neat idea .  I was just goofin around.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe

I was thinking less stat bonus but weapon or armor or skill bonus.

Oh! Thats a neat idea .  I was just goofin around.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

Totally not sarcastic when saying it was a good idea, with like different weapon profs. or skills and stuff. Could even just call them like Hill people, or Desert people or islander. Don't have to talk about their looks. Keep it totally PC that way.
Unfrotunatly that's true.  It's too bad we live in a world full of bigots and haters.

Asian +dex or Int?
African +str or con?
Italian +cha? hehe

I was thinking less stat bonus but weapon or armor or skill bonus.

Oh! Thats a neat idea .  I was just goofin around.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

Totally not sarcastic when saying it was a good idea, with like different weapon profs. or skills and stuff. Could even just call them like Hill people, or Desert people or islander. Don't have to talk about their looks. Keep it totally PC that way.

Its something Paizo toyed around with but didn't do anything with aside from description and a home land.  They did a really good job at fleshing these people's cultures and stuff out.  Now we just add some actual game mechanic stuff to add to the fluff, (I like fluff for the record) and you would have some cool human diversity.  Then let the player add a +2 to ANY one stat they want. 

 
Haven't the past few editions gotten at something like that with regional backgrounds? Like +some to a skill, or making something a class skill, or random other bonuses? Not as directly bundled into the race as subrace options are, but playing around in the same area.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
Since stats cap at 20, wouldn't +1 on everything account for something?

where did you read that stats cap at 20?



Read page 3 in "How to Play", under Ability Scores.
19 point buy, starting with 10/10/10/10/10/8, same table as 4th with +1 for your main attribute and the human +1 to all seems to fit.

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