Advantage and Disadvantage

My initial feeling is poor on this one.  Hey look I rolled a 20 but I am at Disadvantage, fml.  I am also concerned when other features will affect this mechanic, lots of math probability in this mechanic.

But I haven't played using it yet. 
My initial feeling is poor on this one.  Hey look I rolled a 20 but I am at Disadvantage, fml.  I am also concerned when other features will affect this mechanic, lots of math probability in this mechanic.

But I haven't played using it yet. 

What about when you have advantage and roll a 20 instead? FTW instead?

I haven't played yet, but I find this aspect to be the most exciting idea they have implemented.  
I am incredibly excited about advantage and disadvantage. I mean, no idea if it works or not, but on the abstract, I think it's the best idea I've seen in the entire packet... it's quick, it's intuitive, and most importantly it's visceral. There's a literal, physical THING that represents your fortune, good or bad, which is so much more THERE than mere mental arithmetic. 

I'd go further to suggest that a clever DM would get a handful of, say, white and gold d20s to hand out for advantage, and some red and black ones for disadvantage. Promote that visceral and visual element. Yeah.

Besides, if you are at a disadvantage, than getting a critical hit SHOULD be dramatically unlikely, shouldn't it? If you want to roll a twenty and have it count, then fid some way to get the advantage! 
Besides, if you are at a disadvantage, than getting a critical hit SHOULD be dramatically unlikely, shouldn't it? If you want to roll a twenty and have it count, then fid some way to get the advantage! 

1 in 400 unlikely? 

Haven't finished reading, but do Advantage and Disadvantage offset, or how does that work?

EDIT: They do cancel each other out. 

They cancel each other if they are both in play.
Besides, if you are at a disadvantage, than getting a critical hit SHOULD be dramatically unlikely, shouldn't it? If you want to roll a twenty and have it count, then fid some way to get the advantage! 

1 in 400 unlikely? 

Haven't finished reading, but do Advantage and Disadvantage offset, or how does that work?




Yeah, 1 in 400 unlikely. Why not? Getting a crit when you're hanging by one arm from a branch or whatever should be astonishing. Like, the Most Epic Roll of the Game astonishing.

And yeah, looks like Advantage + Disadvantage = neither, which seems reasonable. Although that does bring up a question... since advantages and disadvantages don't stack with themselves, what happens if I have two sources of advantage and one source of disadvantage (e.g.: I'm hiding, and attacking someone who is paralyzed, but I'm also drunk). Does that leave me neutral, rolling one die, or does one set cancel out, leaving me with a single advantage, and rolling two dice?

I wonder what the math on Advantage and Disadvantage is?

Yeah, that's an open call to anyone who knows how to compute it. 
Not saying it has to be in graph form, but I figure someone will express it that way, lol.

Thanks to those smarter than I.
Besides, if you are at a disadvantage, than getting a critical hit SHOULD be dramatically unlikely, shouldn't it? If you want to roll a twenty and have it count, then fid some way to get the advantage! 

1 in 400 unlikely? 

Haven't finished reading, but do Advantage and Disadvantage offset, or how does that work?




Yeah, 1 in 400 unlikely. Why not? Getting a crit when you're hanging by one arm from a branch or whatever should be astonishing. Like, the Most Epic Roll of the Game astonishing.

And yeah, looks like Advantage + Disadvantage = neither, which seems reasonable. Although that does bring up a question... since advantages and disadvantages don't stack with themselves, what happens if I have two sources of advantage and one source of disadvantage (e.g.: I'm hiding, and attacking someone who is paralyzed, but I'm also drunk). Does that leave me neutral, rolling one die, or does one set cancel out, leaving me with a single advantage, and rolling two dice?




I would rule that you have Advantage. You can have multiple sources of Advantage (or disadvantage) but you never roll more than 1 bonus / penalty dice. But I would say that (+1, +1, -1) is still (+1).

I_Roll_20s @twitter. Not always SFW. I may prefer 4e, but I will play and enjoy almost any edition, and indeed almost any table top RPG, with my friends. Down with Edition Wars. Shut up and roll your dice. :P
Besides, if you are at a disadvantage, than getting a critical hit SHOULD be dramatically unlikely, shouldn't it? If you want to roll a twenty and have it count, then fid some way to get the advantage! 

1 in 400 unlikely? 

Haven't finished reading, but do Advantage and Disadvantage offset, or how does that work?




Yeah, 1 in 400 unlikely. Why not? Getting a crit when you're hanging by one arm from a branch or whatever should be astonishing. Like, the Most Epic Roll of the Game astonishing.

And yeah, looks like Advantage + Disadvantage = neither, which seems reasonable. Although that does bring up a question... since advantages and disadvantages don't stack with themselves, what happens if I have two sources of advantage and one source of disadvantage (e.g.: I'm hiding, and attacking someone who is paralyzed, but I'm also drunk). Does that leave me neutral, rolling one die, or does one set cancel out, leaving me with a single advantage, and rolling two dice?




I would rule that you have Advantage. You can have multiple sources of Advantage (or disadvantage) but you never roll more than 1 bonus / penalty dice. But I would say that (+1, +1, -1) is still (+1).


That's how I see it, and it seems to be the way the rules are leaning as well.
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
Yeah, it would make sense that you could still gain advantage through good tactics (i.e. stacking two conditions), even if you're drunk or something.

I absolutely love this mechanic. It works on so many different levels... my inner Melvin can't stop giggling. 
I think this is a good change.  It's a more intuitive mechanic then say, combat advantage in that it can be applied to everything (skill checks, combat rolls, saving throws, competitions etc...) basically anything that determines a roll now has a global rule stating that the DM can either give advantage or disadvantage based on the situation.  Since it applies to everything, there is no need for any of the mechanics from 4e that only applied to a certain situations but essentially functioned in the same logic (combat advantage).

Good change in my opinion.
I do like this change. Combat advantage with "only" a +2 mod to attack always felt a little forced. Pick the best (or worst) roll from 2 dice is a fun and elegant solution.
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
I'm excited about this change as well, it makes Advantage much more significant. Its also important that they broadened it to Skill Checks and everything else where you roll a d20.

I agree with the other posters that as a DM I would give you Advantage if you had 2 sources of Advantage and 1 of Disadvantage.

As to rolling say a 20 and a 4 when you have Disadvantage, as a DM I would be inclined to say your Critical Success allowed you to overcome your Disadvantage and ignore the lower result. I'm not sure if I would give you a Critical Hit or not, but I'd let you use the result of 20 for your To-Hit Maths. 
I wonder what the math on Advantage and Disadvantage is?

Yeah, that's an open call to anyone who knows how to compute it. 
Not saying it has to be in graph form, but I figure someone will express it that way, lol.

Thanks to those smarter than I.

It depends on the difference.  It ranges from +1 (if you hit on a 2, or a 20) to +5 (if you hit on a 10+).

But most of the time it's worth +4.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Wait, what?  It's not just a +2/-2?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Wait, what?  It's not just a +2/-2?

It's roll twice, take the highest/lowest.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

That's...bizarre.  I have no idea why they went away from +2/-2, that worked just fine.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I find the site Anydice invaluable for calculating dice.

For these two cases, it's:
<br />output [highest 1 of 2d20]<br />output [lowest 1 of 2d20]<br />

Which shows a 9.75% chance of a roll of 20 on Advantage and 0.25% on Disadvantage.

Also, rolling low is unlikely on Advantage; rolling high is unlikely on Disadvantage, which gives it a mechanical flavour a flat bonus lacks - About 50% at or below about 7 for lowest; 15 for highest.

OTOH, I only signed the playtest stuff recently, so I haven't gotten my download yet, so I can't put this into any context outside of dice math. OTOH, now you have the dice math.
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?



Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

I don't know if multiple Advantage(s) and Disadvantage(s) cancel each other individually or as a group. 

But that example would probably cancel each other out. 

The elegance of CA was it didn't matter how many sources you had, if Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other individually we'll lose that.  If they cancel each other as a group, the mechanic won't be used as often which would make it special and I could get more excited about it.
That's...bizarre.  I have no idea why they went away from +2/-2, that worked just fine.



My guess is that a +2/-2 modifier can throw the system's math out of alignment pretty easily, since general modifiers and target DCs are much lower.
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?



Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Yeah, it would make sense that you could still gain advantage through good tactics (i.e. stacking two conditions), even if you're drunk or something.

I absolutely love this mechanic. It works on so many different levels... my inner Melvin can't stop giggling. 



This should also inspire better team play 
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?



Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.



Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm assuming opportunity attacks will eventually be put in sometime down the road (unless the bombshell Next gives us is that there are no more opportunity attacks!)

The Prone condition specifically states that Melee attacks have advantage while Ranged attacks have disadvantage unless the Ranged attacker is next to the prone creature. In my opinion that rules definition overrules the one where Ranged attackers have disadvantage when there is an enemy in melee range. 
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
That's...bizarre.  I have no idea why they went away from +2/-2, that worked just fine.

I expect that the new advantage/disadvantage will speed play a little. Picking the higher of two rolls will (I think) take marginally less time than adding/subtracting a situational 2.
The more I think about it, I would let a group of Advantage be cancelled by a single Disadvantage.

Take the munchkin striker archer build with lots of Advantage mechanics.  There wouldn't be any penalty to shooting a bow while standing next to a melee enemy. 

Also, thinking about some kind of Feat or Feature (Class, Race, etc.)  that let's you disregard Disadvantage from shooting a bow adjacent to an enemy actually opens up all kinds of Feats or Features.  If Advantage and Disadvantage cancel as a group, the Feats and Features that negate the Advantages and Disadvantages are the true way to get those extra d20s.
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

I don't know if multiple Advantage(s) and Disadvantage(s) cancel each other individually or as a group. 

But that example would probably cancel each other out. 

The elegance of CA was it didn't matter how many sources you had, if Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other individually we'll lose that.  If they cancel each other as a group, the mechanic won't be used as often which would make it special and I could get more excited about it.



I'm inclined to change my opinion after thinking about it more in line with what you're saying actually.  I really don't want to have to keep track of a stack of advantages and disadvantages.  Here's hoping that they collectively cancel each otherout as a group.
Well i missed the spot were those 2 were explained, but from what i read here it looks like a very nice rule that will spice things up! Also i like how they changed resistance-vulnerability. Simple yet effective, thats how rulles should be! Cool Very good impression so far!
The more I think about it, I would let a group of Advantage be cancelled by a single Disadvantage.

Take the munchkin striker archer build with lots of Advantage mechanics.  There wouldn't be any penalty to shooting a bow while standing next to a melee enemy. 

Also, thinking about some kind of Feat or Feature (Class, Race, etc.)  that let's you disregard Disadvantage from shooting a bow adjacent to an enemy actually opens up all kinds of Feats or Features.  If Advantage and Disadvantage cancel as a group, the Feats and Features that negate the Advantages and Disadvantages are the true way to get those extra d20s.

That sounds horribly unoptimal.

Also, there is no flanking rule.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.

Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm assuming opportunity attacks will eventually be put in sometime down the road (unless the bombshell Next gives us is that there are no more opportunity attacks!)

The Prone condition specifically states that Melee attacks have advantage while Ranged attacks have disadvantage unless the Ranged attacker is next to the prone creature. In my opinion that rules definition overrules the one where Ranged attackers have disadvantage when there is an enemy in melee range. 

I disagree, dardor, if your saying there is neither.

They are two seperate mechanics.  Shooting While in Melee gives you Disadvantage.  Since the ranged attacker is next to the Prone creature, they don't suffer Disadvantage that ranged attacks have against Prone creatures.  Prone doesn't overrule the Shooting While in Melee rule.

I'd say the attacker has Disadvantage against an adjacent prone creature.

This is usually where I ask for a Rules clarification. Well WoTC?
Wizard's first rule: People are stupid.
The more I think about it, the more I love the idea. My gut reaction is that this will speed things up, and make for more "Hell Yeah" and "Oh crap" moments... which I feel are the heart of D&D combat. I would also cancel things out if even one of both situations exist.

There are no rules for OAs (or AoOs) and no rules for flanking. I'd be willing to bet that those are higher "difficulty" modules, and will likely have different rules as well (maybe even removing Adv/Dis). Or you just have Classes apply them differently. A Rogue can Feint 1/day (for each Cha mod), this gives him Advantage on his next attack (next round, immediately, whatever in balanced)
I like this advantage and disadvantage, one of my favorite things about D&DN.

It make more impact that CA in 4e.
And my players ever make a request to try this out on our upcoming 4e campain.Laughing
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.

Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm assuming opportunity attacks will eventually be put in sometime down the road (unless the bombshell Next gives us is that there are no more opportunity attacks!)

The Prone condition specifically states that Melee attacks have advantage while Ranged attacks have disadvantage unless the Ranged attacker is next to the prone creature. In my opinion that rules definition overrules the one where Ranged attackers have disadvantage when there is an enemy in melee range. 

I disagree, dardor, if your saying there is neither.

They are two seperate mechanics.  Shooting While in Melee gives you Disadvantage.  Since the ranged attacker is next to the Prone creature, they don't suffer Disadvantage that ranged attacks have against Prone creatures.  Prone doesn't overrule the Shooting While in Melee rule.

I'd say the attacker has Disadvantage against an adjacent prone creature.


wizard has adopted the design philosophy of simple rules, many excepts as such the exception ALWAYS takes priority over the general rule, ALWAYS.

if there is an exception ANYWHERE saying that disadvantage is removed when attacker is prone, then it takes priority
Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.

Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm assuming opportunity attacks will eventually be put in sometime down the road (unless the bombshell Next gives us is that there are no more opportunity attacks!)

The Prone condition specifically states that Melee attacks have advantage while Ranged attacks have disadvantage unless the Ranged attacker is next to the prone creature. In my opinion that rules definition overrules the one where Ranged attackers have disadvantage when there is an enemy in melee range. 

I disagree, dardor, if your saying there is neither.

They are two seperate mechanics.  Shooting While in Melee gives you Disadvantage.  Since the ranged attacker is next to the Prone creature, they don't suffer Disadvantage that ranged attacks have against Prone creatures.  Prone doesn't overrule the Shooting While in Melee rule.

I'd say the attacker has Disadvantage against an adjacent prone creature.


wizard has adopted the design philosophy of simple rules, many excepts as such the exception ALWAYS takes priority over the general rule, ALWAYS. if there is an exception ANYWHERE saying that disadvantage is removed when attacker is prone, then it takes priority

Right.  But this is not an exception, it's just saying you don't get the penalty described here.

When a ranged attacker attacks a prone creature next to the attacker... nothing happens. 

It doesn't say a ranged attacker attacking a prone creature next to the attacker does not have Disadvantage, it doesn't negate Disadvantage from that attack.

Would a ranged attack against an adjacent prone creature have advantage, disadvantage, or neither?

Neither. Of course I don't know how opportunity attacks work in this edition, but that doesn't affect your attack roll.

This is explicitly stated in the rules under the Condition: Prone. 

There are none (unless you have the guardian theme).

Firing in melee is disavantage.  Which is why i'm a bit confused about weather prone specifically cancels that out or not.

Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm assuming opportunity attacks will eventually be put in sometime down the road (unless the bombshell Next gives us is that there are no more opportunity attacks!)

The Prone condition specifically states that Melee attacks have advantage while Ranged attacks have disadvantage unless the Ranged attacker is next to the prone creature. In my opinion that rules definition overrules the one where Ranged attackers have disadvantage when there is an enemy in melee range. 

I disagree, dardor, if your saying there is neither.

They are two seperate mechanics.  Shooting While in Melee gives you Disadvantage.  Since the ranged attacker is next to the Prone creature, they don't suffer Disadvantage that ranged attacks have against Prone creatures.  Prone doesn't overrule the Shooting While in Melee rule.

I'd say the attacker has Disadvantage against an adjacent prone creature.


wizard has adopted the design philosophy of simple rules, many excepts as such the exception ALWAYS takes priority over the general rule, ALWAYS. if there is an exception ANYWHERE saying that disadvantage is removed when attacker is prone, then it takes priority

Right.  But this is not an exception, it's just saying you don't get the penalty described here.

When a ranged attacker attacks a prone creature next to the attacker... nothing happens. 

It doesn't say a ranged attacker attacking a prone creature next to the attacker does not have Disadvantage, it doesn't negate Disadvantage from that attack.


i thought abotu that after.

if there is a general rule : shooting into melee gives you disadvantage
and a general rule : Prone defenders cannot gain advantage

then two questions pop up. does disadvantage conversly give advantage to the other player? if so, then in my mind it resolves like this

first rule
the archer gets disadvantage and the prone gets advantage
THEN
prone defener cannot gain advantage, so attacker cannot be disadvantaged
RESULT
no advantage OR disadvantage.

if not then in my mind it resolves like this
first rule
the archer gets disadvantage
Then
prone defender cannot gain advantage (which he does not have anyways)
Result
Archer still has disadvantage.

have i confused anybody yet?
I think it's a pretty simple rule... damn, you guys can make anything confusing... use your discretion as a DM and enjoy your new found power.
I wanted to visualise the comparison between +2/-2 and Advantage/Disadvantage.

Just realised I've not taken into account the automatic success of a twenty. Or the auto fail of a 1.

[Edit: Better graph a couple of posts down]


Might be worth putting in the 'neutral' line.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Ouch, that means that in the middle ranges you are looking at close to + or - 5 to your expected dice outcome. While I can't prove it mathematically yet I suspect that disadvantage is just too high a penalty to players. This is much much harsher than the -2 from 4th.

What this means is that if you normally hit on 10 you now only hit 25% of the time doubling the time to kill somthing. Things get even worse against hard targets.

I suspect that once we get into testing disadvantage will be so deleterious that people will start to hate it with a burning passion, especially if monsters can inflict it for extended periods of time like the centepeede poison seems to be able to.