D13 - Born of Flame deck list and strategies

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Spoiler for Chandra's Fury.
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That's a lot of damage to the face along with board clearers, although most of it's pretty pricey mana wise. Wonder what other creatures she's going to get to help hold down the fort long enough for significant mana for all those X spells, although magma phoenix is a really good start.
I guess this deck is even more focused on direct damage and mass removal than the 2012 deck.

IMAGE(http://oi39.tinypic.com/14mvxh5.jpg)

I'm liking it very much for now, but I need to see the rest to form a better opinion.

PS: I bet Inferno Titan will make an apparition too.
A revist of Big Red (essentially Koth's deck) seems awesome to me. Kind of hoping I can shape her deck in a similar manner. Love the Phoenix creatures too, one of my favorite creature types in the game and I love both Chandra's and Magma Phoenix. So thumbs up for having both in the game again.
Wow! Pyre Charger is an awesome card in this deck. A cheap hasty firebreathing creture, it will be a game winner in so many games.

@Brodo

Specially in the same deck!
Looking at all the confirmed cards for the Green deck, and then seeing Fire Elemental in this deck, makes it tough not to laugh everyone in the house awake.
Looking at all the confirmed cards for the Green deck, and then seeing Fire Elemental in this deck, makes it tough not to laugh everyone in the house awake.

Yeah, but Garruk has his own junk like Bountiful Harvest. At least Fire Elemental is borderline playable.

Kind of hope this deck gets something like Tyrant of Discord though. Would love to play with that in Planechase.
Looking at all the confirmed cards for the Green deck, and then seeing Fire Elemental in this deck, makes it tough not to laugh everyone in the house awake.



It's a bad card, but every Chandra deck has it in. It's like a standard condition. I don't like it at all, but it's flavorful and as Brodo said the card is borderline playable.

The only other fire elemental that fits the cost is Scourge of Geier Reach, which I prefer. But unfortunately it dies by the flames of Magma Phoenix.
Looking at all the confirmed cards for the Green deck, and then seeing Fire Elemental in this deck, makes it tough not to laugh everyone in the house awake.


So what sounds are you going to make when you inevitably se Craw Wurm in Garruk's deck?
Looking at all the confirmed cards for the Green deck, and then seeing Fire Elemental in this deck, makes it tough not to laugh everyone in the house awake.


So what sounds are you going to make when you inevitably se Craw Wurm in Garruk's deck?



Or Mahamoti Djinn :P

Oh hypocrisy! A World full of n00bs indeed!

Or....[C]Ember Shot[/C]? Laughing

IMAGE(http://oi39.tinypic.com/14mvxh5.jpg)

a deck speculation thread when we only know 11 cards....    you guys follow all breadcrumb trails?

You're a lose cannon.

 

 

"I played 70 card decks before it was cool to play 70 card decks." -Random M:tG hipster

Craw Wurm would indeed suck. But Mahamoti Djinn is decent for Duels of the Planeswalkers, and Ember Shot, while tremendously overpriced, is still prefered over Fire Elemental as dealing 3 damage to something of your choice, and drawing a card, impacts a game alot more in your favor than a deadweight 5/4 for 5 (yes, indeed, I just there called it weaker than Ember Shot). I rather have an overpriced card with a decent effect, than one of the worst cards ever for less overpriced (of course, I have to admit: I write it down exaggerated just to let others know what I think of Fire Elemental. I played Shalandar, so I know there are tons worse cards).
No, Ember Shot is terrible. A Fire Elemental is at least a threat at a moderate cost, even if outclassed in today's game.
No, Ember Shot is terrible. A Fire Elemental is at least a threat at a moderate cost, even if outclassed in today's game.



Totally agree. Almost never you are able to use a card of more than 6 mana, unless you construct the whole deck to do that and when you play it you are supposed to win.

a deck speculation thread when we only know 11 cards....    you guys follow all breadcrumb trails?


Not speculation, facts from screenshots. There was a gameplay video released in case you missed it.

These are the confirmed ones so far. We could name more cards for other decks, but it isnt of much use when you dont know which decks they go and deck name. The ones listed here are for sure, though. Unless they took screenshots of expansion cards (or less likely, challenges. But you can recognize that most of the time).
a deck speculation thread when we only know 11 cards....    you guys follow all breadcrumb trails?


You doubt that we'll see Craw Wurm or Ember Shot? That's good of you to say, I hope you're right.
a deck speculation thread when we only know 11 cards....    you guys follow all breadcrumb trails?



So wait, you dont play or like 2012, you always come into threads to put people down and argue with their opinions? Now, the best time for magic is when new cards get leaked and people get excited and throw card/deck ideas around and your bashing them for it?

I dont care if i get banned or this post is deleted. Youre a ****. plain and simple  
You can add to your decklist: Flamebreak

Edit: Now is for sure.


No, Ember Shot is terrible. A Fire Elemental is at least a threat at a moderate cost, even if outclassed in today's game.



Totally agree. Almost never you are able to use a card of more than 6 mana, unless you construct the whole deck to do that and when you play it you are supposed to win.




Correction: not in the real game will you ever get so far. In Duels of the Planeswalkers, things are entirely different.

An Ember Shot can at least take down some 3-or-lower toughness creature with an annoying effect that is controlling the game: there are tons of them (no idea how many there will be in this game, of course). What can Fire Elemental do? It can only sit there and do nothing since your opponent's 5-mana creature will have no trouble dealing with it, and if you burn one to death (such a waste of a good burn cards if you're only doing so for Fire Elemental, rather than for a bigger purpose), your opponent will have more of them waiting.
You can add to your decklist: Flamebreak

Edit: Now is for sure.


Done, I was hesitant about Incinerate before your edit.

So far, 3 different sweepers. Which is good to protect metagame against aggro. But I suspect Garruk's deck won't be bothered with this kind of sweep damage. Which is as it should be. 

Correction: not in the real game will you ever get so far. In Duels of the Planeswalkers, things are entirely different.

An Ember Shot can at least take down some 3-or-lower toughness creature with an annoying effect that is controlling the game: there are tons of them (no idea how many there will be in this game, of course). What can Fire Elemental do? It can only sit there and do nothing since your opponent's 5-mana creature will have no trouble dealing with it, and if you burn one to death (such a waste of a good burn cards if you're only doing so for Fire Elemental, rather than for a bigger purpose), your opponent will have more of them waiting.

Seven mana >>>> five mana in Magic, including DotP, especially since 2012 as the format became faster. You'll have 5 lands on average turn 6/7 with the 24 landbase while you'll average 7 lands not until about turns 11/12. Three damage at that stage in a game can be utterly terrible in certain metagames as 3 or less toughness creatures are almost irrelevant and the game is most likely over. It's was hard to swallow in '09 and it was outright terrible in 2012. But, hey it's great to draw a card too after Ember Shot uses all of your mana for the turn, right?.

Fire Elemental also doesn't just "sit" there and do nothing. I'd love to bring in the phrase, "You're doing it wrong" because not only does Fire Elemental come into play well before Ember Shot can be used, it can win in 4 turns by itself if uncontested. Sure, you can just go and say the opponent will have better creatures. How about everyone has better spells too that no one in their right mind should be using Ember Shot? If you take it in the context of a weaker metagame, Fire Elemental is still loads better because it comes down earlier. It can block with more early creatures and live, trade with most midrange creatures, and will most likely require an answer out of your opponent, either through a double block, trade, or removal spell. Thus, Fire Elemental potentially gains you card advantage in the process, something Ember Shot could do as well. Except it not only does it earlier, it aggressively pushes your board forward.

Anyways, really happy to see Flamebreak in this deck. Was always a card I wanted in Chandra's deck.
Correction: not in the real game will you ever get so far. In Duels of the Planeswalkers, things are entirely different.

An Ember Shot can at least take down some 3-or-lower toughness creature with an annoying effect that is controlling the game: there are tons of them (no idea how many there will be in this game, of course). What can Fire Elemental do? It can only sit there and do nothing since your opponent's 5-mana creature will have no trouble dealing with it, and if you burn one to death (such a waste of a good burn cards if you're only doing so for Fire Elemental, rather than for a bigger purpose), your opponent will have more of them waiting.

Seven mana >>>> five mana in Magic, including DotP, especially since 2012 as the format became faster. You'll have 5 lands on average turn 6/7 with the 24 landbase while you'll average 7 lands not until about turns 11/12. Three damage at that stage in a game can be utterly terrible in certain metagames as 3 or less toughness creatures are almost irrelevant and the game is most likely over. It's was hard to swallow in '09 and it was outright terrible in 2012. But, hey it's great to draw a card too after Ember Shot uses all of your mana for the turn, right?.

Fire Elemental also doesn't just "sit" there and do nothing. I'd love to bring in the phrase, "You're doing it wrong" because not only does Fire Elemental come into play well before Ember Shot can be used, it can win in 4 turns by itself if uncontested. Sure, you can just go and say the opponent will have better creatures. How about everyone has better spells too that no one in their right mind should be using Ember Shot? If you take it in the context of a weaker metagame, Fire Elemental is still loads better because it comes down earlier. It can block with more early creatures and live, trade with most midrange creatures, and will most likely require an answer out of your opponent, either through a double block, trade, or removal spell. Thus, Fire Elemental potentially gains you card advantage in the process, something Ember Shot could do as well. Except it not only does it earlier, it aggressively pushes your board forward.

Anyways, really happy to see Flamebreak in this deck. Was always a card I wanted in Chandra's deck.



"Coming down earlier" means nothing. Fire Elemental is like a 1/1 costing 2 mana, while Ember Shot is like a 3/3 costing 5 mana (both having no abilities): the 3/3 is definitely more overpriced. But at least it does something: the 1/1 comes on the board way to late to ever matter, while the 3/3 has a whole bunch of cards it can deal with, even if they've already been on the field for multiple turns. Same deal as now: Fire Elemental will never be able to do anything, while Ember Shot can snipe weaker creatures that are there to control the game.

Also, the thing about Fire Elemental isn't simply "there are better creatures". The thing is: better creatures make Fire Elemental useless because it has no ability to do anything while its stats are absolutely abysmal. While Ember Shot can only be stopped by counters that stop Lightning Bolt or Titanic Ultimatum or anything else as well. A weak creature without ability becomes obsolute (unless you can swarm with them, which you can't with Fire Elemental since it's so expensive), while a weak non-creature Spell can always at least do something.

I've been amazed by the number of repeating cards in all decks from DotP 2012. I know that Garruk or Chandra might have similar strategies regardless of their updated decks, but several same cards? maybe just the best and that's it, but why repeat useless cards? It's a bit clearer for Garruk to repeat Garruk's Companion or his pack leader, but Brindle Boars? The same goes for Chandra and Fire Elemental.

Throwing fodder in there doesn't really make it interesting imho, those cards are just screaming to be switched by almost anything. Thought there would be enough Magic cards out there so developers could keep repetition at a bare minimum. Not asking for premium core decks in every DotP iteration, but there are so many crappy, deck fodder cards out there to avoid repeating them. Sounds like laziness. 

  
 


Also, the thing about Fire Elemental isn't simply "there are better creatures". The thing is: better creatures make Fire Elemental useless because it has no ability to do anything while its stats are absolutely abysmal. While Ember Shot can only be stopped by counters that stop Lightning Bolt or Titanic Ultimatum or anything else as well. A weak creature without ability becomes obsolute (unless you can swarm with them, which you can't with Fire Elemental since it's so expensive), while a weak non-creature Spell can always at least do something.



In your "better creatures" scenario, Fire Elemental is still better than Ember Shot.  A Fire Elemental attack/block plus a cheap 3/4 burn damage spell can take down an 8/9 toughness creature by turn 6 (5 to play, 6 to fight and cast spell).  To do the same with Ember Shot, it's gonna have to be at least, what, turn 8 minimum, and likely much higher (for 7 mana to cast ember and an extra mana to cast the other).. and even then it's less damage done (6/7 dmg).  But hey, you get a card.

And that's not even counting the other scenarios where Fire Elemental can kill or block something that Ember Shot itself can't deal with (anything with 4/5 toughness, or being able to block multiple creatures in multiple turns that have less than 4 strength).

Plus, in 2012 at least the red deck rarely gets to 7 mana, but hits 5 pretty often. 

"Coming down earlier" means nothing. Fire Elemental is like a 1/1 costing 2 mana, while Ember Shot is like a 3/3 costing 5 mana (both having no abilities): the 3/3 is definitely more overpriced. But at least it does something: the 1/1 comes on the board way to late to ever matter, while the 3/3 has a whole bunch of cards it can deal with, even if they've already been on the field for multiple turns. Same deal as now: Fire Elemental will never be able to do anything, while Ember Shot can snipe weaker creatures that are there to control the game.

Also, the thing about Fire Elemental isn't simply "there are better creatures". The thing is: better creatures make Fire Elemental useless because it has no ability to do anything while its stats are absolutely abysmal. While Ember Shot can only be stopped by counters that stop Lightning Bolt or Titanic Ultimatum or anything else as well. A weak creature without ability becomes obsolute (unless you can swarm with them, which you can't with Fire Elemental since it's so expensive), while a weak non-creature Spell can always at least do something.

You're getting ridiculous. First off, you can't just "reduce" the costs of the spells and try and use that for your argument. That's not how land drawing probabilities work. Second, Ember Shot is a spell and you can't magically "transform" it into a creature the same way you treated Fire Elemental. A 3/3 would block and kill a 1/1, but last I saw, your Ember Shot can't kill Fire Elemental. The stats are what they are. Fire Elemental a 5/4 for 5. That's a manageable cost with a respectable size. Big deal if it's vanilla, creatures still win games because they can attack, not sit do "nothing" as you put it. Continue to avoid naming all the cards that always deal with this because you magically assume everyone has a better creature on the table or removal in hand. It's winning you this argument. And poor Ember Shot is an Incinerate with a cantrip. That sounds really great! What does it cost, :R::R:? No? 7?! Yeah, it's a great effect that's made terrible by it's casting cost.


"Coming down earlier" means nothing. Fire Elemental is like a 1/1 costing 2 mana, while Ember Shot is like a 3/3 costing 5 mana (both having no abilities): the 3/3 is definitely more overpriced.



What is really funny about this argument is you say Ember Shot is equal to a vinilla  3/3 for 5 mana. Well, in reality Fire Elemental is a vinilla 5/4 for 5 mana. So it clearly beats a 3/3.
That conversation should be considered over. It was ridiculous of myself to even delve into it.

With that, I'm wondering if this deck, or perhaps that goblin deck will have anything else to disrupt that lifegain deck. Flames of the Blood Hand is cute, but I wonder if we might see something insane like Sulfuric Vortex.
I love how people complain about Fire Elemental being in the deck when you could just easily take it out with the 1st ulocked card
I love how people complain about Fire Elemental being in the deck when you could just easily take it out with the 1st ulocked card

That's kind of the problem. It's essentially an automatic cut for a lot of people and that means one less card that could be used for customizing their list.
Paying 5 mana to draw a card is totally worth it guys. *sarcasm*

Look at Angel of Despair, you get a 5/5 flier for 4 mana, with a standard vindicate. OR you get a 5 cmc 5/5 flier, with a Vindicate for only 2. Vice-versa BOTH scenarios are amazing.

In the case of Ember shot, you either get a 5 cost Incinerate where they can be regenerated so its worse, and a Think Twice that cant be flashed back. Vice-versa BOTH scenarios are BAD.

The Elementals arent that bad in a limited format, sure in paper they are garbage, but in dotp, they are just average. Air Elemental isn't even that bad really in dotp. Its like a Wind Drake, standard vanilla flier. If we're gonna pay 3 for a 2/2 vanilla flier, why not pay 5 for a 4/4? Fire Elemental is for sure worse but still.

We're never going to get 40/40 amazing cards in a deck where we MUST take something great out in order to keep it at 60. I rather it be this way honestly, because it gives a huge disadvantage to anyone whos dumb enough to run a 90 card deck. No offense to anyone who does, but I don't think anyone here does so I'm good. Maybe of the 40 cards, put in 5 fillers to punish people who can't build correctly etc.

Btw fillers don't need to be as bad as Rotting Legion, (I think I saw Warpath Ghoul in Liliana's Deck) Elementals and Ghoul are fine. Ember Shot is NOT. I'd go to say its one of the worst red cards ever printed.
I love how people complain about Fire Elemental being in the deck when you could just easily take it out with the 1st ulocked card

That's kind of the problem. It's essentially an automatic cut for a lot of people and that means one less card that could be used for customizing their list.



Mmm actually some trash cards it's not the end of the world, cause we all know that to have a competent deck your deck must be around 60/65 cards, so in the end of the day youll have to take out lots of cards, trash cards will make the job easier,

Of course i'm only saying this cause i dont mind 2 o 3 trash cards, if we get more than that, then that's the time to get angry
In DOTP, there's no reason to ever have over 61 cards in your deck (the extra is only due to us being forced to run 24 lands in aggro decks, and adding a card does not add a land)
Also those cards are great for beginners to see why certain cards are better than others. I think that's why they leave them in.
If this is a Burn-Control deck (pretty sure it looks like one), I don't see why Fire Elemental can't be the finisher of the deck. Sure, Inferno Titan is much better, but newbies need to know the difference between a good and a bad card.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Also those cards are great for beginners to see why certain cards are better than others. I think that's why they leave them in.


+1.

However...They can do better than Ember Shot.
If they want a really overpriced common direct damage spell, I'd prefer to see Fireblast personally.
But it's free!

That card could actually be really good in the goblin build depending on how aggressive it is.
That conversation should be considered over. It was ridiculous of myself to even delve into it.

With that, I'm wondering if this deck, or perhaps that goblin deck will have anything else to disrupt that lifegain deck. Flames of the Blood Hand is cute, but I wonder if we might see something insane like Sulfuric Vortex.



Maybe Everlasting Torment. Or, even better, Stigma Lasher (this guy would be really fun to play with).

EDIT: I want Malignus too. Fun card against life gain.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

If this is a Burn-Control deck (pretty sure it looks like one), I don't see why Fire Elemental can't be the finisher of the deck. Sure, Inferno Titan is much better, but newbies need to know the difference between a good and a bad card.


Although, we know barely a quarter of what could be the main deck, we know it uses large creatures (Creature Size: 4/5), we know it takes it's time (Deck Speed 2/5) and we know there's lots of ways to build it (Deck Flexibility: 4/5).

Inferno Titan is virtually guaranteed to be in this deck.