Legends and Lore Hit Points, Our Old Friend

Legends and Lore
Hit Points, Our Old Friend
by Mike Mearls

Hit points and Hit Dice are the topics of this week's Legends & Lore column. Mike goes over how these two elements work in the game and what they represent.

Talk about this column here.

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HPs are still abstract.  It's looking good for martial healing being a possibility (maybe it allows you to spend HDs in combat).

As for the rest of the article, I'm starting to dig the HDs.  It's cool that they found a resource to tade surges for (especially one that has an iconic place in D&D).  I'm curious as to whether HDs are only a healing resource or whether they are also used to determine your HPs as you level.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Pasted from the comments:


So, here's what I get from this:

Say I have a 3rd-level Fighter with 3 Hit Dice, so 30 HP assuming I use full Hit Dice rules (and that HP are based off of HD). Over the course of a (short? extended?) rest, I can use my HD to recover HP. I get the impression that I have to roll those dice to know how much I heal during that rest.
Therefore, after a combat encounter that reduced my HP to 10, I figure I might as well take an extended rest because I have no access to magical healing. I am unlucky however and roll three times 1 on my d10, healing me up to 13 HP. I pretty much have to sit out the next day because I won't be able to last long enough. Do I roll again and hope I don't heal only 3 HP again, further delaying quest progress?
One would hope that there ways to improve those rolls so that you don't spend days on end without doing anything during time-sensitive missions. Maybe the CON modifier applies to each roll? Could somebody trained in the Heal skill and/or using a Healer's Kit give a buff (this kind of goes towards the direction of no longer relying on magical healing)? Is there a difference between short and extended rests? Short ones would allow to expend only one HD, whereas there is no limit during extended rests?

I'm reading too much into this, but being so close to the playtest and having this article... teasing me... Argh!

So Hit Dice are a randomized healing surge? Better than nothing I suppose. At least I'm sure that making HD a constant value can be easily done with or without a module.

Still a little worried that it won't be enough to leave the medic Cleric at home; 1 randomized surge per level is not much to work with, especially at lower levels.

L&L with crunch and reveals! Things are getting a bit more interesting now.

Still a little worried that it won't be enough to leave the medic Cleric at home; 1 randomized surge per level is not much to work with, especially at lower levels.


Yeah....it sounds nice and simple, but taking a Short Rest and rolling a '1' on your only Hit Dice would mean you may as well set up a tent.

Not sure what this means for a non-magical healer, to be honest. Perhaps a Warlord's Inspiring Word will let an ally spend a Healing Sur...er, Hit Die to recover HP equal to the max roll, perhaps with an extra random rolled die?
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
Yay abstract HP and surges are back!

Too bad you have to roll for healing.

Why not just make the healing fixed to avoid the problem of rolling a few 1's in a row?
Yay abstract HP and surges are back!

Too bad you have to roll for healing.

Why not just make the healing fixed to avoid the problem of rolling a few 1's in a row?


Well, we don't have the whole system in front of us.  There may be bonuses (maybe you get to add your healing skill) that we don't know about.  However, it's an easy enough thing to houserule.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.


Pasted from the comments:


So, here's what I get from this:

Say I have a 3rd-level Fighter with 3 Hit Dice, so 30 HP assuming I use full Hit Dice rules (and that HP are based off of HD). Over the course of a (short? extended?) rest, I can use my HD to recover HP. I get the impression that I have to roll those dice to know how much I heal during that rest.
Therefore, after a combat encounter that reduced my HP to 10, I figure I might as well take an extended rest because I have no access to magical healing. I am unlucky however and roll three times 1 on my d10, healing me up to 13 HP. I pretty much have to sit out the next day because I won't be able to last long enough. Do I roll again and hope I don't heal only 3 HP again, further delaying quest progress?
One would hope that there ways to improve those rolls so that you don't spend days on end without doing anything during time-sensitive missions. Maybe the CON modifier applies to each roll? Could somebody trained in the Heal skill and/or using a Healer's Kit give a buff (this kind of goes towards the direction of no longer relying on magical healing)? Is there a difference between short and extended rests? Short ones would allow to expend only one HD, whereas there is no limit during extended rests?

I'm reading too much into this, but being so close to the playtest and having this article... teasing me... Argh!



Here's my guess:

Use a healing surge hit die in combat, roll randomly.
Use a hit die during a short rest, gain maximum amount.
@Arcane_Guyver

I don't wanna derail this into a Warlord thread, but...

More likely than not, the Warlord's primary ability as a healer will be to allow the use of a surge in battle. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that, of course; just one HD per Inspiring Word sounds pretty dinky. Would it grant a static bonus HP? Would it double the dice per HD? Extra temp HP? Would it also enable an attack?

EDIT: Don't think so OneEye. Seems quite clear that HD can only be spent on a rest.

Yay abstract HP and surges are back!


Ummm.....that is the least abstract description of hit points that I've ever read from 1e through to 4e.  It is drawing a direct line from what percentage of hit point damage a character takes to the extent of physical injury.
It seems to me, you can have a universal rule that you can ALWAYS substitute a constant value for any hd (hitdice), whether for leveling or for healing, or for any other hd value.

1d8 = 4.5 hp ≈ 5 hp

You can always substitute 5 hp for a 1d8. So normally, player characters gain about 5 hitpoints per level unless rolling randomly.

By extention:
• “Good hd”: 1d10 or 6 hp
• “Average hd”: 1d8 or 5 hp
• “Poor hd”: 1d6 or 4 hp

The Wizard gets a “poor” 1d6 hd, so hopefully neither the 1d4 nor the 1d12 exists for player characters.

It is important to round up the .5 fraction of the average to help reduce the disparity between the resulting poor and good hds. It also helps the healing be more reliable. For poor hd, that extra hitpoint is important.



Its funny, the players who like to roll hd for hitpoints are gambling addicts. They will continue to roll with a gleam in their eye even when they know the option exists to take the rounded up average with a slight advantage. They cant help it. They must roll.
Let's see ...
Like:
We want to make the cleric as optional for a group as a fighter, wizard, or rogue.
we want to reduce the party's reliance on healing magic.


Dislike:
If mundane bandages are all the fighter's companions have on hand, it will take a couple of days for the fighter to return to action. -- If this means 'returning at full strength', then I will probably find it acceptable.  If it means 'fighter must spend a couple of days lying flat on his back and doing nothing', significantly less likely.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

… Ehhhhh, not sure if want. I hate that, "should I waste a heal or not?" feeling you get after a combat. In 4e it only came from having like 4 damage when a HS would fix 10. Now with a random aspect, I can choose "yes" then roll a 2 and still not be up to full.

Although, part of me does kind of like the sound of it for some reason. Maybe it gives healing more of a specific action feel when you have to roll dice. I don't know, I'll play it and see. My head is already brewing up some house rules, but I'll still give it a try.


… Ehhhhh, not sure if want. I hate that, "should I waste a heal or not?" feeling you get after a combat. In 4e it only came from having like 4 damage when a HS would fix 10. Now with a random aspect, I can choose "yes" then roll a 2 and still not be up to full.

Although, part of me does kind of like the sound of it for some reason. Maybe it gives healing more of a specific action feel when you have to roll dice. I don't know, I'll play it and see. My head is already brewing up some house rules, but I'll still give it a try.




Yeah, I'm anticipating setting a minimum value, or just saying 'forget dice, use the average amount'.  Maybe instead of, say a d10, fighters roll a d6+4.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I hope they include some type of rule about non-abstract situations: "when someone slits open a sleeper's throat, it kills", or "whenever you cut off someone's good hand, he loses X% HP and receives penalty Y" for non-combat.
Also, whenever some of the described factors wouldn't apply (say, a character is tied to a post during a fight and can't dodge or deflect attacks) HP or damage should shift consequently.
I'm pretty sure that, even if you can roll your HD for healing during rests, there would be the option (at least as a module) to take the average (or even the max.). Also, I hope the maths for expected rests and recovering rate are taken into account when designing adventures.
While slightly better than surges I hate the idea of characters being able to heal themselves without magic... It is a purely game mechanical construct that serves to please players who do not want a healer. It makes no sense whatsoever that people can decide their body to regenerate a few time per day. This fits a CRPG in which the health meter just keeps popping up after fights... not PNP RPGs, we can have a higher standard. However, I do think I can houserule this away... It is easier to houserule away than martial healing which messes up the features of a class when removed.


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




EDIT: Don't think so OneEye. Seems quite clear that HD can only be spent on a rest.



On a second read through, you are right.
It is a purely game mechanical construct that serves to please players who do not want a healer. It makes no sense whatsoever that people can decide their body to regenerate a few time per day.



The character is supposed to be bandaging and the like. Also, HP aren't suppossed to be only physical. I guess that, if you haven't access to mundane healing, the HP recovering should be a bit lower, but still it does make sense.
While slightly better than surges I hate the idea of characters being able to heal themselves without magic... It is a purely game mechanical construct that serves to please players who do not want a healer. It makes no sense whatsoever that people can decide their body to regenerate a few time per day. This fits a CRPG in which the health meter just keeps popping up after fights... not PNP RPGs, we can have a higher standard. However, I do think I can houserule this away... It is easier to houserule away than martial healing which messes up the features of a class when removed.



Please go back and actually read the article, specifically the point about what hit points are, which you appear to have skipped entirely.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I hope they include some type of rule about non-abstract situations: "when someone slits open a sleeper's throat, it kills", or "whenever you cut off someone's good hand, he loses X% HP and receives penalty Y" for non-combat.



The former is called Coup De Grace, and has existed in some form or another since 1e.
The second is best left to DM fiat, considering that it would be quite a bit of rules to cover ever possible action one could take with a hand, for something that isn't likely to come up very often.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
So, they take the current healing surges, disconnect it from in combat healing (Cleric,warlord bard etc) and make it a random - limited chance to get some HP back.

Call me unimpressed. This design is complex and cluttered and will be prone to either: 1 causing the 5 minute workday because I just rolled 4 ones on my 4d10 for the day OR 2: will be houseruled to average/max hp gain back to actually make the damn things work correctly.

Secondly this does nothing to decrease the reliance on magical healing. You cannot run a dungeon delve (apparently the goal of much of this design) when you might find that after the first big fight you have less than 1/2 your hp left because you rolled crap dice. This is exactly the same as running out of healing spells but more limiting. More importantly magical healing can take place during a fight while these hit dice appear to be explicitly for post combat recovery. This means that a party with a real healer can defeat a more challenging fight because they flat out take more killing. As presented I have to give the idea a D- must try harder.
While slightly better than surges I hate the idea of characters being able to heal themselves without magic... It is a purely game mechanical construct that serves to please players who do not want a healer. It makes no sense whatsoever that people can decide their body to regenerate a few time per day. This fits a CRPG in which the health meter just keeps popping up after fights... not PNP RPGs, we can have a higher standard. However, I do think I can houserule this away... It is easier to houserule away than martial healing which messes up the features of a class when removed.



Please go back and actually read the article, specifically the point about what hit points are, which you appear to have skipped entirely.



No... I haven't... I read the article... My guess that you didn't.. You just read "abstract HPs" and stopped reading... Even with these abstract HPs (which I hate), you start recieving bodily injury after half HPs... with 0 HPs indicating a direct hit... The "magical luck fluff stuff" only explains part of the equation...

Part of the damage is physical injury which you shouldn't be able to heal... If I have 10 HPs... get a sword cut that puts me at 0... then roll 10 on the HD regen I feel as fine as when I woke up... That means physical regeneration at will... 


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




Mearls, now that you've solidified the claim that HP is not entirely just physical injury, show it within the game mechanics! Do this by changing the piece of fridge logic that's been plaguing D&D since it's inception: magic healing.

The spell's not called "Cure Serious Luck" for a reason; the target of magic healing should actually have to be injured (bloodied or negative HP) in order for such spells to function at full capacity (or function at all)

While slightly better than surges I hate the idea of characters being able to heal themselves without magic... It is a purely game mechanical construct that serves to please players who do not want a healer. It makes no sense whatsoever that people can decide their body to regenerate a few time per day. This fits a CRPG in which the health meter just keeps popping up after fights... not PNP RPGs, we can have a higher standard. However, I do think I can houserule this away... It is easier to houserule away than martial healing which messes up the features of a class when removed.



Please go back and actually read the article, specifically the point about what hit points are, which you appear to have skipped entirely.



No... I haven't... I read the article... My guess that you didn't.. You just read "abstract HPs" and stopped reading... Even with these abstract HPs (which I hate), you start recieving bodily injury after half HPs... with 0 HPs indicating a direct hit... The "magical luck fluff stuff" only explains part of the equation...

Part of the damage is physical injury which you shouldn't be able to heal... If I have 10 HPs... get a sword cut that puts me at 0... then roll 10 on the HD regen I feel as fine as when I woke up... That means physical regeneration at will... 



so in your opinion should you only be alouwed to spend hit dice this way as long as your not under half hitpoints ?
as you only take real woulds after you drop below half hitpoints.
Butcha, half the stuff you're worrying about's unjustified. From the example given, it really looks as if ko'd characters can't even regain hitpoints without several days of complete rest or magical healing.

Potentially, these hitdice of healing are an anti-vancian mechanic.


• A “long rest” (say 1/10 of a day, about 2-odd hours) can recharge hitdice.
• A “short rest” (say 1/100 of a day, about 15 minutes) can spend hitdice.


This mechanics can exist without any reference to 24-hour days. Finally, the characters can take rests that make sense according to the story that they are in.


If someone wants to sleep for about seven hours (now apparently the ideal amount of rest on average), it equals 3 “long rests”.

 
Likewise these same periods of time - “short sessions” and “long sessions” - can be used to prep spells, perform rituals, search rooms, and so on.


All without ever needing a mechanic for a 24-hour day.


Notice: As such, a character that is bed-ridden gains 10 hitdice of healing per day.
Butcha, half the stuff you're worrying about's unjustified. From the example given, it really looks as if ko'd characters can't even regain hitpoints without several days of complete rest or magical healing.



I'm filing that in the 'not a good thing' category.  It sucked in previous editions having to wait eons for natural healing to kick in at a meaningful level.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.


so in your opinion should you only be alouwed to spend hit dice this way as long as your not under half hitpoints ?
as you only take real woulds after you drop below half hitpoints.



Actually.. my preference would be that all HP loss accounts for a hit... Thus everything is physical...

When you get better and earn more HPs, you turn hits that would previously have been lethal into lesser lethal blows such as cuts, bruises, blunt injuries etc... As your HPs decrease you wear out and more and more hits become dangerous drawing more and more blood.

Bruises and cuts will take days to heal... While you are still feeling the effects of these, you will fight worse thus more easily opening yourself up to more dangerous blows. 

When I narrate a battle and someone hits... I don't want to be narrating it as "Oooh... the orc really made you exhert yourself to parry that blow" every time someone hits. I want to narrate it as "The orc's blade draws a deep gash across your chest" or "The orcs smacks you over your head with his pommel"... etc...

While not perfect (no increasing HP system will be very logical), it is a lot more narrative and less game mechanical to me. And it makes for much better narration... I hate people being gored by sharks and then just taking a short rest... it makes for a horrible horrible story.


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




Butcha, half the stuff you're worrying about's unjustified. From the example given, it really looks as if ko'd characters can't even regain hitpoints without several days of complete rest or magical healing.



I'm filing that in the 'not a good thing' category.  It sucked in previous editions having to wait eons for natural healing to kick in at a meaningful level.



Agreed. Really grinds my teeth when the mecanics dictate "you must be this magical to ride".


Pasted from the comments:


So, here's what I get from this:

Say I have a 3rd-level Fighter with 3 Hit Dice, so 30 HP assuming I use full Hit Dice rules (and that HP are based off of HD). Over the course of a (short? extended?) rest, I can use my HD to recover HP. I get the impression that I have to roll those dice to know how much I heal during that rest.
Therefore, after a combat encounter that reduced my HP to 10, I figure I might as well take an extended rest because I have no access to magical healing. I am unlucky however and roll three times 1 on my d10, healing me up to 13 HP. I pretty much have to sit out the next day because I won't be able to last long enough. Do I roll again and hope I don't heal only 3 HP again, further delaying quest progress?
One would hope that there ways to improve those rolls so that you don't spend days on end without doing anything during time-sensitive missions. Maybe the CON modifier applies to each roll? Could somebody trained in the Heal skill and/or using a Healer's Kit give a buff (this kind of goes towards the direction of no longer relying on magical healing)? Is there a difference between short and extended rests? Short ones would allow to expend only one HD, whereas there is no limit during extended rests?

I'm reading too much into this, but being so close to the playtest and having this article... teasing me... Argh!




You need to go back and read the article. A short rest allows you to roll to heal using HD. An extended rest allows you to heal the full HD.
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I view hit points as a combination of physical and mental states.

"The Orc swings its club at you, but you block it with your shield, your arm is ringing and going numb."

The fighter just took a couple points of damage. Its more endurance than a physical gash.

"The wizard draws forth your worst nightmare, you fight it off in your mind, but the images haunt you."

The wizard just cast phantasmal killer, the save was made, but the target still took some 'damage'. It might take them a while to shake off the after effects of the spell.
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I rebember when people played videogame Baldruc Gate did a thing: when the PCs were leveling up and there was a "virtual thrown dices", players didn´t save the game ultil he got the numbers he wanted.

I suposse that was the reason 4th hadn´t got hit dices. I like the idea of hit dices to be used for healing, not for leveling up.

* I would like the module or optional system of health levels, like from Storytelling System. Dealing Constitution (undead powers, sickness, poisons, fatal injuries, supernatural curses) would be replaced by penalties to that health/vitality pool. It would be easier, wouldn´t it?

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Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

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Actually.. my preference would be that all HP loss accounts for a hit... Thus everything is physical...

When you get better and earn more HPs, you turn hits that would previously have been lethal into lesser lethal blows such as cuts, bruises, blunt injuries etc... As your HPs decrease you wear out and more and more hits become dangerous drawing more and more blood.

Bruises and cuts will take days to heal... While you are still feeling the effects of these, you will fight worse thus more easily opening yourself up to more dangerous blows. 

When I narrate a battle and someone hits... I don't want to be narrating it as "Oooh... the orc really made you exhert yourself to parry that blow" every time someone hits. I want to narrate it as "The orc's blade draws a deep gash across your chest" or "The orcs smacks you over your head with his pommel"... etc...

While not perfect (no increasing HP system will be very logical), it is a lot more narrative and less game mechanical to me. And it makes for much better narration... I hate people being gored by sharks and then just taking a short rest... it makes for a horrible horrible story.



I think you main problem is that you're clearly playing the wrong game altogether. Never in the story of D&D AFAIK has HP worked like you would like it to work. IMHO you would be better served playing other systems that uses injuries or a similar system instead of abstract HP.

Now, about the L&L column:

OK, HP works as always. Nothing surprising here.

LoL @"We can't risk using "Bloodied" so we're going to use "=>Half Maximum HP"". Brilliant.

The "Hit Dice Recovery Mechanic" (a.k.a. "We couldn't risk using the term Healing Surge again") seems a little silly. It makes again possible infinite magic healing IF they don't change how magic potions work. It also adds unnecessary random elements to recovery. I don't particularly like it, but it's better than nothing, I suppose.
The problem of magic items could easily be resolved by forcing them to use action points. If they use a similar system to 4E action points (you start the day with 1 action point, but you get extra points for reaching 'milestones' one of which is 2-3 encounters without resting). Then just require 2 action points to be used to create a magic item. That means that without adventuring and saving up action points you can't do anything. If you want maybe have an ability to convert 2+ action points to 'residium' or whatever. That way you could save it up over time to get a nice item, but that would be it, you wouldn't be able to create items on just downtime alone, you'd require adventuring...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Should warlords only be able to heal superficial (i.e., pre-bloodied) damage???  That sounds kind of believable, right?  Could it work mechanically?

Just thinking.
Should warlords only be able to heal superficial (i.e., pre-bloodied) damage???  That sounds kind of believable, right?  Could it work mechanically?

Just thinking.



could lead to 2 difrent but intresting healing styles.

non magical warlord/bard:
they are best at healing targets that are not under half hitpoints.
They would have many small heals (maybe at will and aura's) and a high focus on never letting a character get under 1/2 HP.
(( when targeting a player that is under half hitpoints that player would get teporary Hp instead))

magical healing Cleric:
they are best at target that are beloe haf hitpoints.
they would have less healing avalible due to the vancian spell slot limit, but healing magic would heal; much larger amounts then the bard/warlord with each healing spell.
(( you can not target a target that has more then 1/2 Hp with magical healing, but it can restore targets to above 1/2 Hp)
could lead to 2 difrent but intresting healing styles.

non magical warlord/bard:
they are best at healing targets that are not under half hitpoints.
They would have many small heals (maybe at will and aura's) and a high focus on never letting a character get under 1/2 HP.
(( when targeting a player that is under half hitpoints that player would get teporary Hp instead))

magical healing Cleric:
they are best at target that are beloe haf hitpoints.
they would have less healing avalible due to the vancian spell slot limit, but healing magic would heal; much larger amounts then the bard/warlord with each healing spell.
(( you can not target a target that has more then 1/2 Hp with magical healing, but it can restore targets to above 1/2 Hp)



Interesting.  

Seems balanced with eachother, and conveys good flavor.


Healing before bloodied conveys alertness and morale.

Healing after bloodied conveys test-of-faith and miraculous healing.
Encounter-based design: Relatively small health meters that are mostly depleted over the course of an encounter. Health restoratives are segregated to in-encounter and out-encounter, to preserve the hermetic seal around the encounter design.
Adventure-based design: Relatively large health meters that are mostly depleted over the course of an adventure. Health restoratives are an adventure-wide resource, used at party discretion, inside and outside encounters.

That's just a thought. I wouldn't mind two systems, for those that want adventure-based gaming, and those that want encounter-based gaming.
Should warlords only be able to heal superficial (i.e., pre-bloodied) damage???  That sounds kind of believable, right?  Could it work mechanically?

Just thinking.



could lead to 2 difrent but intresting healing styles.

non magical warlord/bard:
they are best at healing targets that are not under half hitpoints.
They would have many small heals (maybe at will and aura's) and a high focus on never letting a character get under 1/2 HP.
(( when targeting a player that is under half hitpoints that player would get teporary Hp instead))

magical healing Cleric:
they are best at target that are beloe haf hitpoints.
they would have less healing avalible due to the vancian spell slot limit, but healing magic would heal; much larger amounts then the bard/warlord with each healing spell.
(( you can not target a target that has more then 1/2 Hp with magical healing, but it can restore targets to above 1/2 Hp)




I could see it working like this.

Warlord words could "restore hit points as if they spend a hit die as long as the target has more than 1/2 their HP" and "grant X temporary hit points". A warlord can heal you all day but someone has to keep you over 1/2 and heal your physical wounds.

Cleric spells would "heal 1/5/10/15 HP per level of the slot prepared." A cleric can heal anytime he wants but is limited by spell slots.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I would personally prefer very limited in-combat healing. If in-combat healing is very limited (i.e. not mandatory), then warlords don't need it and this can be one of the cleric's niches.

If out of combat healing is a ritual, you don't need a cleric either.

I have no problem with this system, but it's more or less healing surges by a new name. It doesn't fix the "take a rest and automatically get better" phenomenon that many people dislike.