Tactician's Armor and warlord feats

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The property of tactician's armor is: "When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value other than your attack bonus, add 1 to that value. This does not change your Intelligence modifier for any other purpose."

Suppose a tactical warlord has Int 20, the Tactical Assault feat, and is wearing tactician's armor. When an ally spends an action point, would he get +5 or +6 to damage rolls from the warlord?

(Essentially, what "calls on" your Intelligence modifier in this situation? Is it the Tactical Presence class feature or the Tactical Assault feat?)

Similar situation: a tactical warlord has Int 20, the Tactician's Word feat, and is wearing tactician's armor. When he uses inspiring word, does the target get +2 or +3 to its next attack roll?
The property of tactician's armor is: "When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value other than your attack bonus, add 1 to that value. This does not change your Intelligence modifier for any other purpose."

Suppose a tactical warlord has Int 20, the Tactical Assault feat, and is wearing tactician's armor. When an ally spends an action point, would he get +5 or +6 to damage rolls from the warlord?

(Essentially, what "calls on" your Intelligence modifier in this situation? Is it the Tactical Presence class feature or the Tactical Assault feat?)

Similar situation: a tactical warlord has Int 20, the Tactician's Word feat, and is wearing tactician's armor. When he uses inspiring word, does the target get +2 or +3 to its next attack roll?



My Tactical Warlord has Tactician's Ringmail (definitely worth the feat investment for proficiency since her AC is higher than in Chainmail and she doesn't have that pesky speed and skill armor penalty...) and that's how my LFR group has always played it.  The feat modifies the class feature or power.  Now, if you take a feat that just flat out adds something based on your INT modifier, then it wouldn't be modified (unless it's also a power) but if the feat modifies a class feature (INT mod to Initiative?) or a power (half-INT mod as additional hit points from inspiriting word), then the tactician's armor still applies.

Also, note: if you use your INT-modifier for *damage* in a power, it applies.  So, a Wizard or Swordmage wearing tactician's armor would have +1 to their damage rolls.   
intmod++
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Now, if you take a feat that just flat out adds something based on your INT modifier, then it wouldn't be modified (unless it's also a power) but if the feat modifies a class feature (INT mod to Initiative?) or a power (half-INT mod as additional hit points from inspiriting word), then the tactician's armor still applies.

So, you're saying:

Yes for Combat Commander and Tactical Inspiration.

No for Shared Resources, Tactician's Word, Tactical Assault, and Versatile Word.

Is that correct?
I would say yes to all of the above. Shared Resources, Tactician's Word and Versatile Word all apply your Int mod to something done with a power (Inspiring Word). Tactical Assault modifies a class feature.
I would say yes to all of the above. Shared Resources, Tactician's Word and Versatile Word all apply your Int mod to something done with a power (Inspiring Word). Tactical Assault modifies a class feature.



Yeah.  Basically, if you had a feat that said "Your attacks gain a power bonus to damage equal to your INT-modifier" then Tactician's armor would not apply to that because the feat is granting a global bonus to all attacks, thus the bonus is coming from the feat.

However, if you have a feat that says "When you use x power, add INT-modifier damage." then Tactician's Armor *would* apply to that since it's the power dealing the damage and the feat is merely adding to it. 
I would say yes to all of the above. Shared Resources, Tactician's Word and Versatile Word all apply your Int mod to something done with a power (Inspiring Word). Tactical Assault modifies a class feature.



This makes the "power or class feature" largely useless, since nearly everything in the game modifies one of those two things.

Feats are not affected by this.  If a feat says "blahblahblah int modifier blahblahblah" it doesn't work.  Paragon path and ED features are not affected.  Properties of items are also out.  Only powers and class features are in, because that's what the armor says.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I would say yes to all of the above. Shared Resources, Tactician's Word and Versatile Word all apply your Int mod to something done with a power (Inspiring Word). Tactical Assault modifies a class feature.



This makes the "power or class feature" largely useless, since nearly everything in the game modifies one of those two things.

Feats are not affected by this.  If a feat says "blahblahblah int modifier blahblahblah" it doesn't work.  Paragon path and ED features are not affected.  Properties of items are also out.  Only powers and class features are in, because that's what the armor says.



Even if the class feature is modified by a feat or item?
Yeah.  Basically, if you had a feat that said "Your attacks gain a power bonus to damage equal to your INT-modifier" then Tactician's armor would not apply to that because the feat is granting a global bonus to all attacks, thus the bonus is coming from the feat.

However, if you have a feat that says "When you use x power, add INT-modifier damage." then Tactician's Armor *would* apply to that since it's the power dealing the damage and the feat is merely adding to it. 

Your second example, though, assumes that the power already does damage, and the feat is merely increasing it.  This makes sense for Tactical Inspiration, for example -- it causes inspiring word to heal Xd6+IntMod instead of Xd6.

The problem is with feats like Tactical Assault.  ("When an ally who can see you spends an action point to make an attack, the attack’s damage roll gains a bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier.")  Although Tactical Presence is listed as a prerequisite for the feat, the benefit does not actually say that it modifies Tactical Presence. Tactical Presence does not normally affect damage rolls at all.  Is this just a feat-based rider that would fall into the first category?

Yeah.  Basically, if you had a feat that said "Your attacks gain a power bonus to damage equal to your INT-modifier" then Tactician's armor would not apply to that because the feat is granting a global bonus to all attacks, thus the bonus is coming from the feat.

However, if you have a feat that says "When you use x power, add INT-modifier damage." then Tactician's Armor *would* apply to that since it's the power dealing the damage and the feat is merely adding to it. 

Your second example, though, assumes that the power already does damage, and the feat is merely increasing it.  This makes sense for Tactical Inspiration, for example -- it causes inspiring word to heal Xd6+IntMod instead of Xd6.

The problem is with feats like Tactical Assault.  ("When an ally who can see you spends an action point to make an attack, the attack’s damage roll gains a bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier.")  Although Tactical Presence is listed as a prerequisite for the feat, the benefit does not actually say that it modifies Tactical Presence.  Is this just a feat-based rider that would fall into the first category?




Actually, I've played that it would be applicable.  However, I figured that it was obvious that it was adding the damage to the class feature from an ally spending an action point.  Upon further review of the feat, it's obvious that this is just a new feature from a feat which is *not* a class feature.  Bummer.  My Warlord likes giving that bonus damage out .... Oh well, it's just one point of damage so it's not too big of a deal. 
Where can I find this amour, what source is it from?
Where can I find this amour, what source is it from?



Adventurer's Vault, pg. 54.  It is chain, scale or plate only, but note that ring mail armor is considered light armor *and* is considered chain, so it qualifies for it.
Excuse my ignorance, but does this work with commander's strike as the damage of cs is your hit line?
Excuse my ignorance, but does this work with commander's strike as the damage of cs is your hit line?

Yes, that works.
I'm still a bit confused and would like to see a simple list of powers it DOES apply to and maybe also some it does NOT apply to.
Everything that's not a "Intelligence vs Whatever" line, but part of a power or class feature.

Note that "You gain a bonus to attack equal to your Intelligence modifier" does work.  Because you're calculating a bonus to your attack, not your attack bonus.  The wording of the item makes it so that doesn't apply to all Int attack powers, such that Int-primary classes would be getting an always-on attack bonus out of it.  It applies to damage, riders, and everything else except the Int vs Whatever line.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
A Tactician's Armor will add 1 to any INT modifier-based value of benefits or penalties granted by a Power or Class Feature only. Feats or non-Class Features are excluded.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

What about when using 1/2 your Int?

If your Int was say... +4, and you wore tacticians armor, would your bonus be...
(Int mod +1)/2 = 2
Or
(Int mod/2) +1 = 3

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If it's your Int, or half your Int, it doesn't apply, because Tactician's Armor affects the mod only, not the score.

You never in my recollection have half a mod.  If it were, you'd replace "int mod" with "int mod+1", so (mod+1)/2.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
If it's your Int, or half your Int, it doesn't apply, because Tactician's Armor affects the mod only, not the score.

You never in my recollection have half a mod.  If it were, you'd replace "int mod" with "int mod+1", so (mod+1)/2.


Incorrect. The armor affects the value calculated, not the mod. You add 1 to the final value of something determined somehow using your Int mod. So if a power says e.g. "gain a bonus of half your Int mod", you get (mod/2) + 1, not (mod+1)/2.
Sorry for the resurrect, but would the Tactician's armor Int bonus apply to the Bard class feature Skill Versatility (add +1 bonus to untrained skill checks) when said skills are Int based?
Sorry for the resurrect, but would the Tactician's armor Int bonus apply to the Bard class feature Skill Versatility (add +1 bonus to untrained skill checks) when said skills are Int based?



No, because it's not doing anything directly related to your INT modifier.

If you wear Tactician's Ringmail armor as a Wizard, it *will* increase all of your damage by +1 though, including Magic Missile damage.  Just not your attack rolls.
Undrhil, I'm probably just obtuse, but I don't understand your response. Rolling a skill check does use the relevant ability modifier (and in this case that modifier would be INT). If the item adds a bonus to a class feature that modifies skill checks, why wouldn't it apply in this case?
"When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier ... other than your attack bonus"

Skill versatility:

You gain a +1 bonus to untrained skill checks.


Power or class feature?  Yes.
Call on your intelligence modifier? No.
Other than your attack bonus? Yes.  

Does not meet all conditions. 

Skill versatility does not "call on" anything - untrained skill checks "call on" skill versatility, if any "calling on" is happening at all.

    

   

Thanks, Wibble, that does make it clear. I knew I was being obtuse!
Does tactician's armor augment inspiring word and combat leader when modified by the following feats?:



  • Tactical inspiration

  • Tactician's word

  • Combat commander

I killed Aleena.
No.  Tactician's Armor affect only powers or class features, not feats.


EDIT Yes for Combat Leader + Combat Commander.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

No.  Tactician's Armor affect only powers or class features, not feats.



What if a feat modifies a power or class feature?
If a feat calls on your intelligence modifier to determine a value that modify a power or class feature, it won't add 1 to that value because the game element calling it must be a power or class feature itself, not what it modify. 

AV 54 Tactician's Armor: When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value other than your attack bonus, add 1 to that value.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

If a feat calls on your intelligence modifier to determine a value that modify a power or class feature, it won't add 1 to that value because the game element calling it must be a power or class feature itself, not what it modify. 

AV 54 Tactician's Armor: When a power or class feature calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value other than your attack bonus, add 1 to that value.




So, if a feat modifies a class feature to use your INT modifier, the modified class feature is no longer a class feature?

Combat Commander basically changes Combat Leader to give an INIT boost to your allies equal to your CHA- or INT-modifier value.
Sorry yes in this case it would work because Combat Leader would become a class feature that calls on your Intelligence modifier to determine a value due to the feat. 

I think i forgot the second part of his post where it refers to Combat Leader thanks for bringing it up. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Also, note: if you use your INT-modifier for *damage* in a power, it applies.  So, a Wizard or Swordmage wearing tactician's armor would have +1 to their damage rolls.   


This is actualy pretty funny.  It's kind of a shame there aren't any INT-primary strikers, really.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Also, note: if you use your INT-modifier for *damage* in a power, it applies.  So, a Wizard or Swordmage wearing tactician's armor would have +1 to their damage rolls.   


This is actualy pretty funny.  It's kind of a shame there aren't any INT-primary strikers, really.



The Pyromancer is an INT-primary striker.  :P