Opinions on a Dragon Sorcerer.

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Just looking for some opinions on this Sorcerer I built.

As for a weapon, he will be using a Flaming Incendiary dagger. We are playing without themes, and in an inherent bonus system.
This is the hardest hitting sorcerer I could come up with without going into specific magical items that our DM would force us onto an epic quest for. ;P

While we were leveling, his defences were what hurt him the most - plus, he's one of two strikers in our group. The other one being a Two-Weapon Ranger, bastard sword and lots and lots of attacks. XD

Andor Sten, level 7
Human, Sorcerer
Spell Source: Dragon Magic
Dragon Soul: Dragon Soul Fire
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 21.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18.



AC: 17 Fort: 17 Reflex: 17 Will: 23
HP: 53 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 13


TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +9, Arcana +8, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Intimidate +13


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +3, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +3, Stealth +4, Streetwise +8, Thievery +4


FEATS
Human: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 1: Improved Defenses
Level 2: Unarmored Agility
Level 4: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 6: Implement Focus (Dagger)


POWERS
Sorcerer at-will 1: Ensorcelled Blade
Sorcerer at-will 1: Burning Spray
Sorcerer encounter 1: Tearing Claws
Sorcerer daily 1: Grounding Rebuke
Sorcerer utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle
Sorcerer encounter 3: Flame Spiral
Sorcerer daily 5: Slaad's Gambit
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Horror Blast





 
While we were leveling, his defences were what hurt him the most

FINAL ABILITY SCORES

Str 13, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 21.


Issue found.

Your attack score might come from Charisma, but your Soul Damage bonus and AC, two other incredibly important stats for you, ride right off of Strength. Why you have it at a 13 is beyond my understanding.

Also, think about weighing the option of grabbing either Blazing Starfall or Dragonfrost for your extra At-Will, as you need some sort of Ranged utility should you be stuck in the back row for whatever reason.
Blazing Starfall.
Area attack so ignore cover/concealment/invisible attack penalties.
It's fire (yum) AND Radiant.

And yes it is better to have a 14 str.  13 dex is usually for dual implement spellcaster.  Given the premise of low magic items, I would drop it.

I've noticed you taken a bunch of the 'hit me and regret it' powers...your DM still pounds you?  If he does, swap out a feat for White Lotus Riposte.

Makes your at-wills, especially Dragon Breath, into 'atk me (any attack), take damage', 'hit me in melee, take more damage.'. 
An enemy melee attacker gets dinged twice.  Once for attacking (hit or miss), twice if he hits you.
 Oops. Yes. I totally forgot that dex is a dump stat. XD
Changed it now. also, added blazing starfall, and switched the lv 7 encounter power.
Plus, added in WLR by removing Unarmored Agility. I think Imp Def is slightly better atm, since our DM usually attacks our defender with the AC-hitting monsters.
Our DM NEVER ignores our Knights aura. Its very nice for this little sorcerer. But that simply means everything ranged is targetting him or our cleric first. and on top of that, this poor little sorc just simply couldn't do respectable damage compared to the ranger in our group. Until now. ^^ 

Comments?



Andor Sten, level 7
Human, Sorcerer
Spell Source: Dragon Magic
Dragon Soul: Dragon Soul Fire
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 21.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18.



AC: 16 Fort: 18 Reflex: 16 Will: 23
HP: 53 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 13


TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +10, Arcana +8, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +13, Intimidate +13


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, History +3, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +3, Stealth +3, Streetwise +8, Thievery +3


FEATS
Human: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 1: Improved Defenses
Level 2: White Lotus Riposte
Level 4: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 6: Implement Focus (Dagger)


POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Blazing Starfall
Sorcerer at-will 1: Burning Spray
Sorcerer at-will 1: Ensorcelled Blade
Sorcerer encounter 1: Tearing Claws
Sorcerer daily 1: Grounding Rebuke
Sorcerer utility 2: Shield of Flames
Sorcerer encounter 3: Flame Spiral
Sorcerer daily 5: Slaad's Gambit
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Blazing Bolts


 
Blazing Starfall is ok if you actually need a ranged option (ie. your DM uses flying creatures), otherwise just having Heroic Effort and a ranged encounter or daily is better.

If you are planning on making it to epic, the only stat array worth a damn is 15/10/13/10/8/17

Level 1 Daily - Lightning Breath
Level 1 Encounter - Tempest Breath (slightly better than tearing claws)
Level 5 Daily - Glacial Armor
Level 7 Encounter - Crushing Sphere if you want a ranged option, otherwise Thundering Gust so you have a real Nova (Flame Spiral AP Thundering Gust)

White Lotus Riposte is a decent suggestion, at the very least get rid of Implement Focus for Dual Implement Spellcaster and hold another dagger in your off-hand (I don't know if the builder supports it, but you'll add your Inherent Bonus to all damage rolls again with DiS)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Unfortunately... DEX is not a dump stat. You're going to want at least 15 by the time Epic rolls around for the 19-20 critical threat range feat.

For Strength-based Sorcerers, having a 20 post-racial Charisma is actually a big no-no, due to the dependence on Strength for your damage and AC on top of Dexterity riding a lot of honestly valuable feats (some people adore Superior Reflexes for the chance at a sweeter first-turn turnaround).

For you, a spread of 16/16/13/11/10/8 would be much preferred, the 16s going into STR/CHA, the 13/11 going into DEX/CON respectively and the other two divvied as you see fit. Yes, you'll lose a point of attack and damage, but quite frankly your other stats contribute too much to other facets of your character to neglect them as you have.

Right now you're riding on Level+9 AC, which is abhorrent for optimization. You're working in cloth, so naturally it's not going to be a stellar amount, but you have ways of fixing that - Unarmored Agility, Rhythm Blade Daggers, etc. being key areas of that. Unfortunately, that'll whisk feat support away from feats like White Lotus Riposte. Even as a Human, you're choked up on feats as it is, so you may want to leave Improved Defenses alone until about halfway into Paragon. Your AC as a Skirmisher Striker is way too important, even taking into account your DM's staunch loyalty to your Knight's aura.
 (I don't know if the builder supports it, but you'll add your Inherent Bonus to all damage rolls again with DiS)

Dual Implement Spellcaster doesn't give one hoot about Inherent Bonuses, as it specifically looks for the enchantment bonus of your offhand implement - which Inherent Bonuses do not impart.
I don't have the DS book, my bad. That's absoltuely silly though, that would mean stuff like Incisive Dagger or Staggering Weapon don't scale, and neither would Critical Dice; unless there's a specific clause that says they do, in which case I'd argue that DiS should work.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The only reason I went fully into CHA was because I was sure that Dual Implement Spellcaster was worthless in a Inherent Bonus system. :S
But it seems I was wrong. XD

Either way. I experimented a bit more. It seems I can still get as much juice out of the damage..
The problem is the "to hit". +11 is really too low. The Knight and the Ranger are both on +16.
I feel as if I need something else to bring to the table if the to-hit will be so low at the moment. >.<

+13 damage on the fire keyword spells is really nice though. ^^



- Edit

Scratch that.. It seems that I only got the illusion of an increase in damage thanks to the Dual Implement feat..
Since I equipped him with a rythm dagger.. Which had a +1 on it.. *Sigh*
Suggestions?
I really want this sorc to shine in our group. >.< 
I don't have the DS book, my bad. That's absoltuely silly though, that would mean stuff like Incisive Dagger or Staggering Weapon don't scale, and neither would Critical Dice; unless there's a specific clause that says they do, in which case I'd argue that DiS should work.

Well, it gives all the bonuses solely to the implement or weapon used to actually invoke the power in question. The offhand weapon garners no bonuses, unless it was already enchanted to begin with, in which case it would grab those bonuses and not the Inherent ones for DIS.
The only reason I went fully into CHA was because I was sure that Dual Implement Spellcaster was worthless in a Inherent Bonus system. :S
But it seems I was wrong. XD

It is, but you do have a fair few feats that want your Dexterity to not suck (Superior ReflexesArcane ReachSorcerer Implement Expertise).

Either way. I experimented a bit more. It seems I can still get as much juice out of the damage..
The problem is the "to hit". +11 is really too low. The Knight and the Ranger are both on +16.
I feel as if I need something else to bring to the table if the to-hit will be so low at the moment. >.<

+13 damage on the fire keyword spells is really nice though. ^^ 

Are they at +16 with combat advantage? You have to remember that you attack NADs (except with Ensorcelled Blade, of course - which should be at +14 for you if you're at +11 with your other attacks), so the bonus is going to be lower; you're attacking defenses that are, 9 times out of 10, lower than its AC stat.

Unfortunately... DEX is not a dump stat. You're going to want at least 15 by the time Epic rolls around for the 19-20 critical threat range feat.

For Strength-based Sorcerers, having a 20 post-racial Charisma is actually a big no-no, due to the dependence on Strength for your damage and AC on top of Dexterity riding a lot of honestly valuable feats (some people adore Superior Reflexes for the chance at a sweeter first-turn turnaround).

For you, a spread of 16/16/13/11/10/8 would be much preferred, the 16s going into STR/CHA, the 13/11 going into DEX/CON respectively and the other two divvied as you see fit. Yes, you'll lose a point of attack and damage, but quite frankly your other stats contribute too much to other facets of your character to neglect them as you have.



Covered what I was going to say. I find buying a pre-racial 18 is generally not worth the cost to everything else in your build and rarely a good idea unless it covers Attacks, AC, HP and you don't have much rider/prerequisite stat dependence. 
To be honest. The sorc is a friend of mine. I'm the groups Knight. 
I'm not sure we really have a decent way of causing combat advantage. Unless I've misunderstood something about flanking and close-blasts/bursts?... Hmm.. But if I skip DiS.. What would be a decent other feat? Preferably some nice way to cause more damage or hit better. XD

Our usual playstyle usually revolves around the ranger running in picking of single targets. I move in with my aura, protecting the cleric and sorcerer. Since our DM never, NEVER ignores my aura, I'm actually using Full Defense most of the time.  Quite successfully I might add. Problem is.. My knight is "sticky" since our DM doesn't want to ignore my aura. But that also means that I never get to apply my nice effects on the monsters. (Slow/Prone/CA..)

Is there any obvious way that me and the sorc could combo play and wreak some havoc that way? (Getting the Ranger to play that way is impossible. :P) 

Is there any obvious way that me and the sorc could combo play and wreak some havoc that way? (Getting the Ranger to play that way is impossible. :P) 


You're going to be a beacon for every mob that wanders in your path. Have your Sorcerer friend park himself near you and just let him rip Hell with all his blasts and bursts, the friendlier the better.

You may want to see if your DM allows retraining.  That way you can tweak your stats every now and then.  
Otherwise it is a looooong haul to epic.

Sorcerers suffer somewhat from MAD (multiple attribute dependency). In your case you need Cha, Str and Dex.
You will not be able to do everything, so you will have to decide which direction to go.

If you folks really want more team play (with the knight) controllery then I am afraid wizard may be a bit better.  Or more melee based sorc... 

Just my 2 coppers.  YMMV.

I have 2 LFR sorcerers (dragonborn dragon magic and drow storm/ mc bard) and they are a blast.

 
The only reason I went fully into CHA was because I was sure that Dual Implement Spellcaster was worthless in a Inherent Bonus system. :S
But it seems I was wrong. XDEither way. I experimented a bit more. It seems I can still get as much juice out of the damage..
The problem is the "to hit". +11 is really too low. The Knight and the Ranger are both on +16.
I feel as if I need something else to bring to the table if the to-hit will be so low at the moment. >.<
 

Are they at +16 with combat advantage? You have to remember that you attack NADs (except with Ensorcelled Blade, of course - which should be at +14 for you if you're at +11 with your other attacks), so the bonus is going to be lower; you're attacking defenses that are, 9 times out of 10, lower than its AC stat.



They must be at +16 w/ Combat Advantage and even that's probably one high IF they both bought a pre-racial 18 STR (which is usually a REALLY bad idea for a melee Ranger. It's a sack of potatoes unless you feat in to heavy armor. )

I have 2 LFR sorcerers (dragonborn dragon magic and drow storm/ mc bard) and they are a blast.



Obvious pun is obvious. Sealed



They must be at +16 w/ Combat Advantage and even that's probably one high IF they both bought a pre-racial 18 STR (which is usually a REALLY bad idea for a melee Ranger. It's a sack of potatoes unless you feat in to heavy armor. )




With my Knight I went 18, yes. But he's a Int-Knight, going Eldricht Knight on paragon. And that's eithout CA.

+5 Int Mod
+3 half level
+3 proficiency bonus (Longsword)
+1 Weapon Talent (Knight feature)
+1 Feat Bonus (Heavy Blade Expertise)
+2 Enhancement bonus (Inherent Bonus)

That's 15.. But I've got a Master's Longsword. >.< Which means +1 in an untyped bonus to attack as long as I'm in a stance. And I could use Poised Assualt to get an additional +1 if need be.
So the Knight Could get as high as +17 at the moment. 

As for the Ranger, it was one of the cookie butter builds suggested in the Ranger guide here. Totally ripped from there. Heavy Armor feats included.

You may want to see if your DM allows retraining.  That way you can tweak your stats every now and then.  
Otherwise it is a looooong haul to epic.

Sorcerers suffer somewhat from MAD (multiple attribute dependency). In your case you need Cha, Str and Dex.
You will not be able to do everything, so you will have to decide which direction to go.

If you folks really want more team play (with the knight) controllery then I am afraid wizard may be a bit better.  Or more melee based sorc... 

Just my 2 coppers.  YMMV.

 



Our DM allows retraining, that is what this is actually. ^^; I'm trying to help him get the most out of the character. >.< Since he feels a bit left out. His current lvl 6 character has +10 to hit with any attack.. Our DM might be hard, but we haven't seen a monster with lower defenses then 22 for quite some time. (He might be bumping them, or simply having us face harder monsters, since our healers is Awesome, and the Knight and the Ranger are a bit too opted.)


Hmmm...

Well, optimizing to hit:

Cha 20

Feat: Superior Implement
Feat: Implement Expertise 
Feat: Cunning Striker (cbt adv if no one else adj to enemy.  you can be adjacent though)

+5 (ch)+1(imp) +1(i exp)+3(lvl)+2(ca)+2(enh)
+14 vs. Reflex to hit

optimizing damage
Str 14
Feat: Sup Imp

Items (you will have to work out the inherent equivalents)
Dragonshard Augment
+2 (enhancement).

+5(ch)+2(st)+2(enh)+2(sup imp)+1(shard)
+12 dam with fire sorc powers. (+14 if the owlbear option is allowed).

Not great, but okay.  15 damage on a die roll of 1 is decent at low to mid-heroic for aoe casters.

And you will never out single-DPR a ranger, so don't try.  
My sorc at level 6 managed 220 points of burst damage, but that was against multiple mobs.  
Our ranger did 90 points, but it was a single target.

If all themes are legal, grab Fey Beast Tamer.  The level 5 ability of all the pets is aura 1 enemy grants CA.  Which frees up a feat.
If you go owlbear, he also has a nice +2 damage aura. He is a nice companion for the Knight, while the sorc can hang back and range nuke em.
Enemies with 22 Reflex are roughly level 10 creatures, they should also have 24 AC (except soldiers will have 26), that's a bit high to "always face" although your DM seems to be softballing by obeying the aura.

I don't know how he could only have +10 to hit, he should have +11 to hit Fort/Will, +12 to hit Ref, and +14 to hit AC with Ensorcelled Blade. Unless the power is really really good (Thunder Leap, Glacial Armor) he should only use powers that target Ref. Unfortunately, being human was just a really bad choice to start out with as a Sorcerer since they lack a 2nd stat increase and don't have the important feat support Sorcs kinda need.

There is one other option to consider for increasing his DPR, and that's Charging, though that mostly works well in a higher magic setting (and he'd need to be Dex based instead of Str based). Still, it's a +1 to hit (more in paragon) and you can quickly add on extra damage.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Clearly you are in the middle of a campaign and all, but I am curious... why human? There has been no discussion around any benefits resulting from being human so I would greatly consider being a different race. Anything that gives you a +CHA and +DEX or +STR would work fine. These solve many of your stat problems as well as giving you better options of racial feats.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Don't underestimate a bonus feat and Heroic Effort (seriously, the 3rd at-will is pointless on a sorc if you don't have a warlord, and even then you should probably specialize) Human trumps the second Cha/Str race (Vryloka) for Dragon Magic, even though it does lose to just about every Cha/Dex race, and at least 2 Cha/x races (Half-Elf, Tiefling) simply because they have more relevant feat support.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
but but but...

Dragon...

Born...

**head explodes** 
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Dragonborn make terrible sorcerers. There, I said it
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Dragonborn make terrible sorcerers. There, I said it



Dragonborn make great Sorcerers if they are not excusively a Sorcerer. Hybrid Barbarian or Paladin and they get significantly better.

Back to the topic on hand. At late heroic, I see little gained from the human race choice for Sorcerer. An extra feat is about it. As Zathris said, there are better options even if you must have Dragon Magic and no +STR boost.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Dragonborn make terrible sorcerers. There, I said it



Dragonborn make great Sorcerers if they are not excusively a Sorcerer. Hybrid Barbarian or Paladin and they get significantly better.

Back to the topic on hand. At late heroic, I see little gained from the human race choice for Sorcerer. An extra feat is about it. As Zathris said, there are better options even if you must have Dragon Magic and no +STR boost.



This just isn't true. Dragonborn make stellar Sorcerers, I was being facetious. Hybriding those don't make you significantly better, in fact, they weaken you a fair bit.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Dragonborn >>>> Tiefling/Dead Genasi/Dead Dragonborn (WHY?) >> Drow/Pixie/Satyr/Halfling/Half-Elf/Dead Stuff > Human/Hamadryad > The Rest

IMNSHO
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Is this for Dragon Sorcs or for all Sorcs Zath?
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Dragon

All Sorcs would be Dead Genasi>Tiefling>Dragonborn>*
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
What do those races bring a Storm Sorc over other races?  A Tiefling could pick up a Flaming Dagger and all of his fire support, but the others?
The dead genasi gets a boost to Cha (the living one doesn't) and still gets promise of storm (racial power for 1d8/tier damage to all thunder and lightning powers UEoNT).
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
For the sake of my own credability, I did say "all sorcs". (If I were rating things) Dragonborn are Gold for Dragon Magic, Sky Blue for Cosmic, and Blue for both Wild and Storm. Tiefling and Dead Genasi are Sky Blue across the board. By comparison Drow (top 3 of the dex/cha race) are more Blue, Blue, Sky Blue, Sky Blue. The Dex Sorcs have 7 or 8 Sky Blue races, which really doesn't work well in the rating system.

Tiefling also have Secrets of Belial which is just sexy, and Imperoius Majesty.

Implement Focus doesn't apply to ESB or LC, Draconic Spellcaster does, and even without Ancient Soul, Dragon Beath is still a minor action blast/burst attack that can apply status conditions and do average damage. 
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Sorry, I think my post came off as more combative than intended.  I was genuinely curious as I'm still learning what all these races do and bring to various classes through racial support.  I'm still trying to learn everything a Tiefling does, for instance.