05/15/2012 ReConstructed: "How to Lose a Friend in Ten Turns"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's ReConstructed, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Pretty sure Witchbane does not shut off Hellrider, as it says "defending player" not "target defending player".
How does the Thrumming bird deck contain two Venser, Shaper Savant if it's a standard deck? I think it might have been a different card, as it doesn't even make much sense in the deck either.

Anyawy, ReConstructed is quickly becoming my favourite column on this site, I really like how in depth it is.

As much as I like turbofog, I think Luke Paulsen's Torpor Orb combo deck is by far the best, wish you worked on that instead. And hey, my UG Miracle Infect deck made it to the honorable mentions :]. Wish I could submit a deck for next week but I never played EDH.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
I still have the same problem with this column I've always had: it's well-researched and well-written, but I really don't see the need for yet another Spike column. Shouldn't Magic's official page be about slightly more than competitive deck tweaking?
i loooooove griefy strange decks like this!! <3

and i never thought i'd see Archangel's Light be seriously suggested in any column! it's such a strange thing, and so fitting for a column on a strange deck :-)

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btw, can anyone explain to me how the Standard Storm deck works? it looks so intriuging; i can't figure it out. 
"Improving" a deck by adding a couple money (mythic) rares, oh how original, how clever, how courageous.

Bo-ring!

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The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

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Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

I still have the same problem with this column I've always had: it's well-researched and well-written, but I really don't see the need for yet another Spike column. Shouldn't Magic's official page be about slightly more than competitive deck tweaking?



While I do tend to look at constructed decks for tournament play (even if it is just FNM level), I will happily note that I do plan on doing things focused on the casual level. This week's Commander challenge will be the first of many in that vein.

How does the Thrumming bird deck contain two Venser, Shaper Savant if it's a standard deck? I think it might have been a different card, as it doesn't even make much sense in the deck either.

Anyawy, ReConstructed is quickly becoming my favourite column on this site, I really like how in depth it is.



Glad you like the column! Thanks for sending a deck in. As far as Venser goes, it was just misentered - it should be Venser, the Sojourner.  

Pretty sure Witchbane does not shut off Hellrider, as it says "defending player" not "target defending player".



You're absolutely correct! Thanks for pointing that out. I think you still want it for the burn heavy decks, but the 'Rider is frustrating. I'd just bring in all of the Beast Withins you have and use those to good effect.

There aren't a lot of great answers besides Beast Within. The problem is, since you leave them with so many creatures, often it's going to be lethal the turn it comes down so you won't have the chance to take another turn. That renders cards like Garruk Relentless or Corrupted Conscience no good. If you just need to buy time, Turn to Frog could work. Otherwise, Tumble Magnet, Tower of Calamities, and Helvault can work potentially - but probably aren't worth dedicating sideboard slots to. 

Hope this helps! Sorry about the error - I just presumed it targeted.  
Man, there were a few cool decks in those honerable mentions. Wild Defiance should make sure people at kitchen tables and FNMs the world over continue to hate infect. And Curse of Exhaustion + Knowledge Pool is quite the hard lock. But I am way too excited about that Standard "Storm" deck!

Come to think of it, all of the decks I found interesting here I would love to play but hate to play against. hmmm... 
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i loooooove griefy strange decks like this!! <3

and i never thought i'd see Archangel's Light be seriously suggested in any column! it's such a strange thing, and so fitting for a column on a strange deck :-)

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btw, can anyone explain to me how the Standard Storm deck works? it looks so intriuging; i can't figure it out. 

Get Burning Vengeance out, then cast Past in Flames. Flashback all your mana generating spells, then flashback your card drawing spells, and repeat until the opponent is dead to burning vengeance triggers.

flopfoot, thanks for the explanation.

i dno't play constructed, so maybe it's a stupid question, but if burning vengance is the main (only viable?) way to win with the deck, is it safe to only have two in your deck? or does all the card drawing actually make it okay?
That Torpor Orb deck is awesome! Pure Johnny I LOLed
The interaction that Reclaim/Noxious Revival have with turbo-fog by giving you effectively up to an additional eight draw steps was not mentioned.

I have seen turbofog games come down to a one or two card difference between the players, and giving yourself that many virtual additional draw steps is very useful for keeping you from accidentally decking yourself.
How does the Thrumming bird deck contain two Venser, Shaper Savant if it's a standard deck? I think it might have been a different card, as it doesn't even make much sense in the deck either.


Probably the other Venser.

"Improving" a deck by adding a couple money (mythic) rares, oh how original, how clever, how courageous.


Yeah, it would me nice if there was a column on this site about building decks without the use of expensive cards. Building "on a budget", if you will.
blah blah metal lyrics
lol at storm!! really nice, that one should have been done this week. 
Wow. This deck is brilliant! And it was almost the deck I thought of in the intro. My personal favorite that is very close to this is Turbo-Stasis. Dear wizards, please make a Stasis reprint that allows this deck to come back.
Wow. This deck is brilliant! And it was almost the deck I thought of in the intro. My personal favorite that is very close to this is Turbo-Stasis. Dear wizards, please make a Stasis reprint that allows this deck to come back.



Negative.  No.  Ixnay.  Nein.  Never.

I used to play Turbo Stasis, and it is the least fun deck ever made in the history of MTG.  Why are you even playing Magic if the goal of your deck is to make it so that nobody can actually PLAY Magic?  Wizards' whole deal with current sets is to -increase- interactivity, because interactivity makes the game fun.  They will never make anything even remotely like Stasis ever again.  If you want to play that horrible monstrosity, take it to Legacy.
This seems like the least fun deck I have ever heard of. Not for the opponent, but also for you. Decking an opponent naturally is the last way I ever want to win a magic game, EVER. Feeling powerful is different than denying everyone the chance to get into the nitty-gritty and winning without win conditions.
Wow. This deck is brilliant! And it was almost the deck I thought of in the intro. My personal favorite that is very close to this is Turbo-Stasis. Dear wizards, please make a Stasis reprint that allows this deck to come back.



Negative.  No.  Ixnay.  Nein.  Never.

I used to play Turbo Stasis, and it is the least fun deck ever made in the history of MTG.  Why are you even playing Magic if the goal of your deck is to make it so that nobody can actually PLAY Magic?  Wizards' whole deal with current sets is to -increase- interactivity, because interactivity makes the game fun.  They will never make anything even remotely like Stasis ever again.  If you want to play that horrible monstrosity, take it to Legacy.

+1



Ooh, a commander deck reconstruction.  Too bad my one commander deck I have (mono-G Fatties) I sincerely doubt needs any tweeking.  Not saying it's perfect, but it's quite awesome where it is.  Aw what the heck.  I'll send it in anyway.

I do have one more commander deck in the works, but it's a theme deck that draws inspiration from outside of MtG (Touhou) and I doubt the author would get it.  And even if he did get it, not enough people here would care about it to make it worth writing a column about so...I guess I'll just read about someone else's brew reconstruction next week. =)

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Wow. This deck is brilliant! And it was almost the deck I thought of in the intro. My personal favorite that is very close to this is Turbo-Stasis. Dear wizards, please make a Stasis reprint that allows this deck to come back.



Negative.  No.  Ixnay.  Nein.  Never.

I used to play Turbo Stasis, and it is the least fun deck ever made in the history of MTG.  Why are you even playing Magic if the goal of your deck is to make it so that nobody can actually PLAY Magic?  Wizards' whole deal with current sets is to -increase- interactivity, because interactivity makes the game fun.  They will never make anything even remotely like Stasis ever again.  If you want to play that horrible monstrosity, take it to Legacy.




I respect that, and I bet there is enough of that sentiment that they never will.

But I loved the tension between seeing if I could draw into the components I needed to keep the lock in play or if I would miss and open the floodgates to my doom. Perhaps if they made the New Stasis have some sort of effect that guaranteed that if it left play then there would be a window of opportunity for your opponent before you can reset the lock. 
Ooh, a commander deck reconstruction.  Too bad my one commander deck I have (mono-G Fatties) I sincerely doubt needs any tweeking.  Not saying it's perfect, but it's quite awesome where it is.  Aw what the heck.  I'll send it in anyway.


Eh, I just chose to send in a deck that isn't my best or favourite but rather the one I think could actually use the help. If I send in my Dralnu deck, either Gavin won't pick it because he can't find enough to tweak or he will pick it and I will disagree with 99% of what he does. So I won't.
blah blah metal lyrics
Ooh, a commander deck reconstruction.  Too bad my one commander deck I have (mono-G Fatties) I sincerely doubt needs any tweeking.  Not saying it's perfect, but it's quite awesome where it is.  Aw what the heck.  I'll send it in anyway.


Eh, I just chose to send in a deck that isn't my best or favourite but rather the one I think could actually use the help. If I send in my Dralnu deck, either Gavin won't pick it because he can't find enough to tweak or he will pick it and I will disagree with 99% of what he does. So I won't.


Well I only have one constructed EDH deck and I figured it couldn't hurt to send it in. XD

But yah, I figure mine won't make it.

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

flopfoot, thanks for the explanation.

i dno't play constructed, so maybe it's a stupid question, but if burning vengance is the main (only viable?) way to win with the deck, is it safe to only have two in your deck? or does all the card drawing actually make it okay?



With 12 artifacts and (potentially) 8 Kuldotha Rebirths, you might be able to club them to death with goblin tokens. I might try 3-4 Burning Vengeance and only 2-3 Reforge the Souls, but it's kind of hard to tell without playing the deck first.

A single Goblin Chieftan or Hellrider might be pretty spicy too.
I sent in a god awful Tibor and Lumia deck. It would have to be a miracle for him to pick it. I'm sure I'll get around to fixing it someday. It's my calling.
I like this column a lot, but it's only helpful for making decks more powerful, and advice for that is everywhere. I wish someone would cover the challenge of how to make a deck more fun and fair.
I like this column a lot, but it's only helpful for making decks more powerful, and advice for that is everywhere. I wish someone would cover the challenge of how to make a deck more fun and fair.



There's a column that publishes this same day called Serious Fun, ya know. It's about how to make fun decks. You should check it out.
Eh, I just chose to send in a deck that isn't my best or favourite but rather the one I think could actually use the help. If I send in my Dralnu deck, either Gavin won't pick it because he can't find enough to tweak or he will pick it and I will disagree with 99% of what he does. So I won't.


Heh, good point. I was all set to send in one of my two favorite decks and even started sorting it to make an up-to-date decklist easier, but then I thought it might be more interesting to send in my other favorite deck. But I probably wouldn't be interested in making too many changes to them. Thanks for the reminder of what we're actually looking for here. Instead of either of those, I'll probably send in my Kaalia deck: designed to be quick and straightforward and brutal, just needs a little help with it.
flopfoot, thanks for the explanation.

i dno't play constructed, so maybe it's a stupid question, but if burning vengance is the main (only viable?) way to win with the deck, is it safe to only have two in your deck? or does all the card drawing actually make it okay?



With 12 artifacts and (potentially) 8 Kuldotha Rebirths, you might be able to club them to death with goblin tokens. I might try 3-4 Burning Vengeance and only 2-3 Reforge the Souls, but it's kind of hard to tell without playing the deck first.

A single Goblin Chieftan or Hellrider might be pretty spicy too.




haha, the thought of all those goblin tokens winning, and being created in such a (to me) strange way, somehow amuses me.
I have been playing a very good turbo fog since Dark Assention release that has done pretty well. 

it plays entirely differently though.

I call it Mill-Fog because it activly mills the opponent instead of just waiting for them to die slowly.

Creatures - 6
 viridian Emisary -      4
 Snap Caster Mage - 2

Planes Walkers - 2
Jace, memory Adept - 2

Other Spells - 32
Fog      -                       4
Terrifying Presence -    3
Clinging Mists -            4 
Blunt the Assault -       3
Increasing Confusion - 4
Surgical Extractioon -   4
Increasing Confusion - 4
Blue Sun's Zenith -       2
Rights of Flourishing -   4


Lands - 20
Forests            -      8
Islands            -      8 
Hinterland Harbor - 4

Sideboard          - 15
Beast Within       3
Negate                3
Norn's Annex       2
Terminus         -   2
Glacial Fortress - 2
Sunpetal Grove - 2
Random card - 1


Viridian emisary is the first unexpected card, the 4 in this deck are used to protect you in the early rounds when using a fog to block 2 or 3 damage seems a bit of a waste. not only that it also gets you a land thinning the deck for late game needs win/win/win (note the deck is short on land because the emisary is minimal but effective ramp)

The 4 types of Fog are of course the name sake of the deck but 14 seems to work fine and I will even go down to 11 when I sideboard the 3 terrifying presence to replace with  negate,  beast within,  Norn' Annex, or terminous if i also swap the non-basics. Remember you have 2 snapcasters to reuse them if necessary and the truth is this deck works faster than most turbo mill because of...

Increasing Confusion is the win condition. trust me you dont need any more mill than this and Jace. 8 effective chances to mill your opponent speeds up the game and works well with Jace, not to mention....

Surgical Extraction. This card, believe it or not, is absolutly critical to the deck. After your opponent hits you with a counter, powerfull direct damage, some kind of undying combo or just tries to snap cast a powerfull card Surgical Extraction ends those shennanigans and mills a few cards in the process. 

Rites of Flourishing, Jace and Blue Sun's are your card draw engins. And all of them will or can also work to mill your opponent. 

I have found this deck to be effective and actually quite fun even for most opponents in the current environment because its unexpected and the mill component means the games do not go mind nummingly long. 


I just want to thank Gavin for these off the beaten path decks, and I definiely appreciate a budget and an "upgraded" version. I feel like this column appeals to a lot of folks!

Would have been cool to hear some play testing results on the TurboFog deck! 
Negative.  No.  Ixnay.  Nein.  Never.

I used to play Turbo Stasis, and it is the least fun deck ever made in the history of MTG.  Why are you even playing Magic if the goal of your deck is to make it so that nobody can actually PLAY Magic?  Wizards' whole deal with current sets is to -increase- interactivity, because interactivity makes the game fun.  They will never make anything even remotely like Stasis ever again.  If you want to play that horrible monstrosity, take it to Legacy.


Oh, so that's why they've been printing cards you can very easily interact with and are not frustrating to lose to at all!

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Negative.  No.  Ixnay.  Nein.  Never.

I used to play Turbo Stasis, and it is the least fun deck ever made in the history of MTG.  Why are you even playing Magic if the goal of your deck is to make it so that nobody can actually PLAY Magic?  Wizards' whole deal with current sets is to -increase- interactivity, because interactivity makes the game fun.  They will never make anything even remotely like Stasis ever again.  If you want to play that horrible monstrosity, take it to Legacy.


Oh, so that's why they've been printing cards you can very easily interact with and are not frustrating to lose to at all!


They've admitted that those two are mistakes, but that it's just going to take some time for us to see that kind of power dropping back out because of how far ahead they work.

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

***************************************************************************************

Post #777

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Sweet to see another deck of mine (the Flicker control deck I call 'Flicker op', which is a dutch wordplay for 'get lost') getting an honorable mention! Unfortunately it was a list in which I 'typoed' Emancipation Angel; it should've been Restoration Angel.

Ah well, time to finish up on my commander list I've been brewing on for a week so I can send it in!
Psh, this guy doesn't know about Standard T-Fog.
I've been playing it for months and months with the same list, and let me tell you:

Otherworld Atlus is okay, but a little to slow. I'd rather just have like 2 or 3 Rites on the field.
Miracle cards like Terminus are lifesavers, especially when combo'd with Noxious Revival.
Entreat the Angels is the most hilarious alternate wincon for the same reason

Terrifying Presence is better than Moonmist a good portion of the time. Moonmist can literally kill you if your opponent is running almost any form of G or RG deck. Against these decks, TP is almost always more useful because they've either Beast Within'd something of yours (TP can target your beast, and bam, fog) or they have a manadork like Birds on the field. TP also works in conjuction with Tamiyo wonderfully.

The article also makes no mention of Divine Deflection, which is just dandy. When a game lasts a half hour and you have a bunch of Rites on the field,  you have more mana than you know what to do with. Hitting them for like 15 with one of these is lolsome

iirc he also doesn't mention that Thalia and Grand Abolisher hose Turbofog entirely. So boardwipes are important.


The GW Terboferg deck that I've been trolling around with uses Chalice of Life as the main win condition. It's in the middle of being updated for AVR right now.

4x Chalice of Life
4x Rites of Flourishing
3x Druidic Satchel
3x Elixer of Immortality

4x Blunt the Assault
4x Clinging Mists
3x Terrifying Presence
1x Moonmist
4x Fog

3x Noxious Revival
2x Terminus
1x Day of Judgment
1x Gideon Jura
1x Entreat the Angels

4x Evolving Wilds
4x Sunpetal Grove
6x Plains?
8x Forests?

the board is always changing, but i run Cages, Orbs and Celestial Purges generally. Also, Autumn's Veil against control xd