Quick Quandries

4 posts / 0 new
Last post
Quick question one of my friends asked about some cards and wants a second opinion:

Let's say Olivia Voldaren makes a creature into a Vampire and swipes it like the theiving...er...lady that she is.  Her ability has resolved and everything.

Now, let's say the person wants to get their creature back and happens to draw Turn To Frog.


My friend's question is this:
If one was to use a card similar to Turn To Frog on a creature taken by that <em>lovely</em> lady, would one get the creature back since the creature no longer has the subtype Vampire?
For that matter, would changing Olivia into a Frog instead cause her to loose the ability that holds the Vampires under her grasp and therefore release ALL of her thralls?


My answer:
Making it loose the Vampire subtype is not enough to return it to your control.  Also, I ruled that Olivia's name hasn't changed - only her creature type.  Her ability says she retains control until you no longer control her and lists her name - you have the named creature still, just in a different form.


What say you?
Custom Races
Kt'Lahn (Last Update: Oct 22, 2010)
Noble tiger people who will do almost anything to maintain honor.

Custom Classes
Soulforged (Last Update: Jul 23, 2010)
Incarnum Defender

PEACH if you would.

I am Red/White
I am Red/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.


If one was to use a card similar to Turn To Frog on a creature taken by that <em>lovely</em> lady, would one get the creature back since the creature no longer has the subtype Vampire?
For that matter, would changing Olivia into a Frog instead cause her to loose the ability that holds the Vampires under her grasp and therefore release ALL of her thralls?

Turn to frog will not cause olivia's effect to end. Neither would changing olivia's name (eg, with Mirrorweave). The effect only ends when you no longer control that object (for example, because olvia gets destroyed or enchanted by Confiscate).
If one was to use a card similar to Turn To Frog on a creature taken by that <em>lovely</em> lady, would one get the creature back since the creature no longer has the subtype Vampire?


No.
611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by the spell or ability creating it (such as "until end of turn"). If no duration is stated, it lasts until the end of the game.


What's stated is "for as long as you control Olivia Voldaren", not "for as long as that creature is a Vampire".
For that matter, would changing Olivia into a Frog instead cause her to loose the ability that holds the Vampires under her grasp and therefore release ALL of her thralls?


Also not stated:


  • "for as long as Olivia Voldaren is a Vampire"

  • "for as long as Olivia Voldaren has this ability"


Also, I ruled that Olivia's name hasn't changed - only her creature type.


Why would that matter?

201.4. Text that refers to the object it's on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

When a card mentions its name, it really just means "this permanent." For example, if another creature were to gain Olivia's ability, the ability would function correctly. If her name were to change, you'd still retain control of the creatures. And as you mentioned, Turn to Frog doesn't change Olivia's name anyway.

Olivia's ability sets up a continuous effect with one end condition: It keeps working until you lose control of her. Even if someone else Mind Controls the affected creature, you get it back when Mind Control is destroyed.
Sign In to post comments