UW Tamiyo and friends...

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 I didn't want to highjack the other UW thread so I made this one.
I been testing and tweaking this deck and it seems to have great matchups against practically everything.
I beat BW tokens 2-0 (twice)
I even beat Wolfrun 2-0
and had a couple draws but got 3rd place tonight at FNM with the following list....

After FNM I seen some changes that needed to be made and changed them. Here is the new list
[deck]
4 day of judgment
3 terminus
2 righteous blow
2 oblivion ring
4 think twice
3 ponder
4 mana leak
3 snapcaster mage
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
3 entreat the angels
3 tamiyo, the moon sage
2 gideon jura
1 elspeth tirel
4 seachrome coost
4 glacial fortress
4 ghost quarter
7 island
7 plains
[/deck]
I just didn't think timely and batterskull weren't  worth the spots in the deck. Also alot of times i drew WSZ and wished it was just entreat the angels.
Any thoughts? Suggestion?
Blue White CONTROL
Bump? 
Also I tested my changes and so far I think my original list was better.
What is everyone elses thoughts on the two lists?
 
Blue White CONTROL
Looks good what's your Wolf Run matchup like?

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Looks good what's your Wolf Run matchup like?


 Really good! I played against one of the best players in our store last night in Round 5 and I (2-0'd) him! I control the board heavy with sweeps and PWs tapping down whatever needs to be tapped or use Gideon as a meat shield. I deal with inkmoths with the 4 Ghost Quarters and Righteous Blow. Snapcaster can flashback Righteous blow to deal with additional Inkmoth nexus as well. 
Here is a story I will not forget for a long time.
I was at 10 life and 8 poison , he had a Primeval titan and activated all 4 Inkmoth knowing I could have Righteous Blow and snapcasters in hand so he wanted to be sure to make the kill. He moves to combat and before attackers I think twice. Draw terminus! Proceeded to play Tamiyo, he plays Titan. I play Elesh Norn, tap Titan. He passes the Turn. Top deck Entreat the Angels for 5! He draws and scoops!
That is a story Haha. I have good matchups against practically everything I have tested against thus far.
Terminus and Entreat are absolutely amazing.
Blue White CONTROL
What makes this list awkward is that it's a control shell on a combo deck, but unlike Solar Flare you aren't just stuffing a powerful combo into an intrinsicly powerful control shell. Or in plain English, you're trying to play too much like Solar Flare with a completely different strategy. Superfriends decks thrive on their ability to cast as many spells with their planeswalkers as possible within any given span of turns. You care less about actually interacting with and dominating the board than you do crushing your opponent with pure value casting. For this reason, you really want to push strong draw/filtration, early turn survival tricks and cheap, minimally interactive removal
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What makes this list awkward is that it's a control shell on a combo deck, but unlike Solar Flare you aren't just stuffing a powerful combo into an intrinsicly powerful control shell. Or in plain English, you're trying to play too much like Solar Flare with a completely different strategy. Superfriends decks thrive on their ability to cast as many spells with their planeswalkers as possible within any given span of turns. You care less about actually interacting with and dominating the board than you do crushing your opponent with pure value casting. For this reason, you really want to push strong draw/filtration, early turn survival tricks and cheap, minimally interactive removal


You do realize control is all about interactivity, right? At any given point where they Mana Leak your spell, it's interaction. At any given point where they Go for the Throat or Doom Blade a creature, it's interaction. At any given point where a Day of Judgment occurs, it's interactivity. Tamiyo's +1 is interactivity, Sorins' vampire tokens entering combat is Interactivity, Gideon's abilities are interactivity. Because control is usually a reactive strategy, it cares all about interacting with the board or the stack.



You do realize control is all about interactivity, right? At any given point where they Mana Leak your spell, it's interaction. At any given point where they Go for the Throat or Doom Blade a creature, it's interaction. At any given point where a Day of Judgment occurs, it's interactivity. Tamiyo's +1 is interactivity, Sorins' vampire tokens entering combat is Interactivity, Gideon's abilities are interactivity. Because control is usually a reactive strategy, it cares all about interacting with the board or the stack.





Sorin's Vampire tokens and Gideon's last ability are not interactive (they don't require your opponent to have anything but a life total), but otherwise your statements are correct.
 Can anyone explain to me how I am a combo deck with a control shell? Because I just don't see it. 
Is it the think twice into terminus/Entreat the Angels that makes me a combo deck? I see those two cards as what control needed to actually survive and possibly thrive in the meta.
I am not reanimating anything so how am I solarflare?
Sorry guys I am not trying to contradict anyones opinions or thoughts. I just don't see anything Wynzerman said there.
The deck works though, atleast in my meta and I plan on taking it to a SCGIQ next weekend to see how it does there.
 
Blue White CONTROL
Hayne's list that just won the block pro tour I feel like that deck could easily be ported into standard with a few changes what are people's thoughts on this?

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Hayne's list that just won the block pro tour I feel like that deck could easily be ported into standard with a few changes what are people's thoughts on this?




Main Deck
60 cards


4 Evolving Wilds
13 Island
10 Plains
27 lands


0 creatures


4 Devastation Tide
1 Dissipate
4 Entreat the Angels
4 Feeling of Dread
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
29 other spells


4 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
4 planeswalkers


Sideboard
1 Angel's Mercy
4 Cathedral Sanctifier
3 Dissipate
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Midnight Haunting
2 Snapcaster Mage
15 sideboard cards

I really like the list here and I believe with some work it can be carried over to standard. I wouldn't run mastery though but I do like Devastation tide in there. Seems this deck would just run through the top 8 decks at the PT easily. 


Also I think my original decklist performed far better than the 2nd one does. Although I would like more ponder in there to manipulate my draws. 
Blue White CONTROL

What makes this list awkward is that it's a control shell on a combo deck, but unlike Solar Flare you aren't just stuffing a powerful combo into an intrinsicly powerful control shell. Or in plain English, you're trying to play too much like Solar Flare with a completely different strategy. Superfriends decks thrive on their ability to cast as many spells with their planeswalkers as possible within any given span of turns. You care less about actually interacting with and dominating the board than you do crushing your opponent with pure value casting. For this reason, you really want to push strong draw/filtration, early turn survival tricks and cheap, minimally interactive removal


You do realize control is all about interactivity, right? At any given point where they Mana Leak your spell, it's interaction. At any given point where they Go for the Throat or Doom Blade a creature, it's interaction. At any given point where a Day of Judgment occurs, it's interactivity. Tamiyo's +1 is interactivity, Sorins' vampire tokens entering combat is Interactivity, Gideon's abilities are interactivity. Because control is usually a reactive strategy, it cares all about interacting with the board or the stack.




Ofcourse Control is about interactivity. It's just befuddling to me why people try to build Superfriends decks to use control methods. What I said is what I meant, you have to interact, but you really want to do so on a minimal basis (like Day of Judgment) until you have an oppressive amount of value. With these kind of decks, you don't want to play control for too long because that burns time where you could be getting more value (which is what planeswalkers are all about.)

Can anyone explain to me how I am a combo deck with a control shell? Because I just don't see it.


Because you're trying to win via extreme value, but play control to get to that point, hence why I compare it to Solar Flare which is a Control deck that focuses on a reanimation combo. An interesting example is with Junkwalkers you are often either board wiping the entire game to interact only as much as necessary, or you are trying to ramp out the Planeswalkers and gain the value too quickly to deal with. It's a pretty neat hybrid effect for deckbuilding.
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What makes this list awkward is that it's a control shell on a combo deck, but unlike Solar Flare you aren't just stuffing a powerful combo into an intrinsicly powerful control shell. Or in plain English, you're trying to play too much like Solar Flare with a completely different strategy. Superfriends decks thrive on their ability to cast as many spells with their planeswalkers as possible within any given span of turns. You care less about actually interacting with and dominating the board than you do crushing your opponent with pure value casting. For this reason, you really want to push strong draw/filtration, early turn survival tricks and cheap, minimally interactive removal


You do realize control is all about interactivity, right? At any given point where they Mana Leak your spell, it's interaction. At any given point where they Go for the Throat or Doom Blade a creature, it's interaction. At any given point where a Day of Judgment occurs, it's interactivity. Tamiyo's +1 is interactivity, Sorins' vampire tokens entering combat is Interactivity, Gideon's abilities are interactivity. Because control is usually a reactive strategy, it cares all about interacting with the board or the stack.




Ofcourse Control is about interactivity. It's just befuddling to me why people try to build Superfriends decks to use control methods. What I said is what I meant, you have to interact, but you really want to do so on a minimal basis (like Day of Judgment) until you have an oppressive amount of value. With these kind of decks, you don't want to play control for too long because that burns time where you could be getting more value (which is what planeswalkers are all about.)

Can anyone explain to me how I am a combo deck with a control shell? Because I just don't see it.


Because you're trying to win via extreme value, but play control to get to that point, hence why I compare it to Solar Flare which is a Control deck that focuses on a reanimation combo. An interesting example is with Junkwalkers you are often either board wiping the entire game to interact only as much as necessary, or you are trying to ramp out the Planeswalkers and gain the value too quickly to deal with. It's a pretty neat hybrid effect for deckbuilding.



BUT sadly all those Superfriends decks don't perform they way most wish they would.
Would you of had a different view on the deck had it not been called Tamiyo and friends? Myabe I should of called it UW miracle control.
The walkers are in there for their utility. Cawblade played a number of Jace, gideon and occasionally Elspeth but it wasn't considered superfriends.
Control has to evolve to deal with the meta as it is now. A year ago DOJ would of been enough but now there a creatures that just get around that. The deck works, don't knock it til you try it.
Blue White CONTROL

BUT sadly all those Superfriends decks don't perform they way most wish they would.
Would you of had a different view on the deck had it not been called Tamiyo and friends? Myabe I should of called it UW miracle control.
The walkers are in there for their utility. Cawblade played a number of Jace, gideon and occasionally Elspeth but it wasn't considered superfriends.
Control has to evolve to deal with the meta as it is now. A year ago DOJ would of been enough but now there a creatures that just get around that. The deck works, don't knock it til you try it.



It just seemed like you are trying to make a Superfriends deck, so I'm commenting on it as such :P  As for the meta, it's fairly unstable but SCGOs suggest that it's heading towards a Rock Paper Scissors of R/G Aggro, Delver and R/W Humans.
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BUT sadly all those Superfriends decks don't perform they way most wish they would.
Would you of had a different view on the deck had it not been called Tamiyo and friends? Myabe I should of called it UW miracle control.
The walkers are in there for their utility. Cawblade played a number of Jace, gideon and occasionally Elspeth but it wasn't considered superfriends.
Control has to evolve to deal with the meta as it is now. A year ago DOJ would of been enough but now there a creatures that just get around that. The deck works, don't knock it til you try it.



It just seemed like you are trying to make a Superfriends deck, so I'm commenting on it as such :P  As for the meta, it's fairly unstable but SCGOs suggest that it's heading towards a Rock Paper Scissors of R/G Aggro, Delver and R/W Humans.

Well I wasn't trying to make an arguement out of the deck either. So its all good

As for the Rocl/paper/scissors format of the SCGOs I have tested against those decks and I have good matchups against them all. Many of my friends at the store I play at commented that my deck has great matchups against all the popular decks at the moment. And to improve on the engine of the deck I made some more changes.





Blue White CONTROL
how is ramping into a PW a combo?

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how is ramping into a PW a combo?



I have no clue.
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how is ramping into a PW a combo?



It's not ramping into them xD It's having 3 or 4 Planeswalkers in play that tends to be the point of comborific. Free spells out the wah-zoo. ;p
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Your definition of combo seems to differ from most other peoples'.
I have been really happy with the way the new list has been performing then when Rorix pointed out Hayne's UW block list I thought what of thhought scour?
What are  the thoughts of thought scour vs ponder?
I like the fact of another instant draw spell, but it doesn't manipulate my draw much like ponder.
Blue White CONTROL
I have been really happy with the way the new list has been performing then when Rorix pointed out Hayne's UW block list I thought what of thhought scour?
What are  the thoughts of thought scour vs ponder?
I like the fact of another instant draw spell, but it doesn't manipulate my draw much like ponder.



How much do you need Ponder?

Ponder is useful in the midgame to dig for answers, e.g. Turn 3 or 5 when you need to find a Day of Judgment or whatever. In such a circumstance, you can usually accept the two dead draws that follow because you've removed an immediate threat.

For general draw-bettering, it isn't so good. It's alright for land drop finding, I suppose, but often you will have to shuffle the top 3 because it's full of rubbish cards you don't want (e.g. if you need two running land drops, and you only see one there, you need to shuffle and risk not getting either land drop). It's not like Scry - you need to have ways to mitigate the cards you DON'T want, which is normally achieved with fetchlands and other shuffle effects.

Thought Scour I'm not sure about - I think it gets better when you go in heavily enough with Miracles, but I still feel a bit antsy about it in a deck without much graveyard recursion. It is a good way to enable miracles on the opponents turn, though, because its low cost instant speed. 
Maybe I should slide 4 thought scour in place of ponder for some games and see how it plays? It obviously worked well for Hayne at the PT so its possible it may be better than the ponder is in the miracle decks.
Blue White CONTROL
I don't necessarily think Thought Scour will be better here. The lack of graveyard interactions has me scared that you'll be removing answers.
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suggesting thought scour simply as another means of drawing at instant speed just to maybe enable a miracle on the opponent's turn is convincing me that maybe the deck relies to much on getting lucky.  it sort of seems like you're putting to much stock and faith into the fact that you had a game in which you go lucky with terminus against WRR and now you're convinced that this should be how the deck wins games.

personally, i'd never play thought scour in this deck.  its not a card drawing spell, its a useless cantrip.  it only makes sense in delver because of snapcaster mage, its cheap, and pike.  don't run it in UW control.  relying on termius to hit nexus tells me you need a better way to beat nexus. 

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No Thought Scour.  Use Gut Shot.  It also deals with Delver, Stromkirk Noble, Grim Lavamancer, birds, champions, etc.  With 4 Ghost Quarters main and 4 Gut Shots in the board, you shouldn't have a problem dealing with Nexus.


And as a bonus, Tiago can flash the 'shot back.

 Thank you forest. You have saved me from myself( I tend to go to extremes when I find something I like). That said the deck deals with Nexi just fine with righteous blow and ghost quarter.


I really wanted more instant speed draw power so I could hit Entreat more often so I don't go to time often at FNM.


The deck is fun and powerful and just seems to have great matchups against my meta. Resolved Titans don't mean a thing when I just ghost quarter the Wolf Runs or Nexi.

I made alot of the suggestions like more draw and miracles because I wanted to see if I could transform my list into a ported over version of Hayne's UW, just to see if it could be done. But if it isn't broke don't fix it.
With all this said maybe the original list I posted is the better list, it answered everything. Well everything but late game hard counters... Which is why I went a 3/2 split on leak and dissipate later in a revised list.

Blue White CONTROL
I am not trying to be defeatist here, but to be completely honest with you, I just don't see how this has a good matchup against WRR....or at the very least, any better of a matchup than any other Control deck does(namely U/B and Esper).

How exactly do you figure this has a good(or better) matchup against WRR than any other Control deck?

You are running roughly the same number of Counterspells and Ghost Quarter as your average U/B Control deck. So it is not like those are doing anything for you that they wouldn't do in a U/B shell anyways, and we still have Cavern of Souls in the meta as a foil to Counterspells.

Most of the removal doesn't do any better against WRR than the removal in U/B does. Righteous Blow actually does WORSE in this matchup than Tragic Slip does, since you can't use Righteous Blow on mana dorks early on to slow down your opponents ramp. Since they shouldn't be attacking you with their dorks until their Prime Time has already hit the table.

Your sweepers don't do anything more for you than they would in any other Control build. Esper usually runs Day of Judgment and Terminus and neither are that great in the WRR matchup. Going U/W even cuts you off from Curse of Death's Hold which is arguably the best "sweeper" in the format for dealing with WRR, since it shuts off both their Inkmoth Nexus AND their mana dorks(which become relevant once Wolf Run hits the table).

As for the PWs, Gideon and Tamiyo don't really do much to stop a Prime Time/Wolf Run once it hits the table. I guess Tamiyo's +1 could be used to permanently lock down a Kessig Wolf Run since it is "target permanent". Even then, I just don't see how they are any better here than they are in the U/B and Esper variants.

The only thing here I really see that is good against the WRR matchup is Entreat the Angels, and that is assuming you can miracle it early and blow them out with 2+ 4/4 fliers before they can ramp into Titan/Wolf Run. Even then, it seems to me it could be run just as easily in an Esper build.
 

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  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.
Blue White CONTROL
  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.


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  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.





The only removal I mentioned was worse in his build than the average U/B build is Righteous Blow, since it doesn't hit mana dorks early(I will admit, this is less of an issue with Sphere of the Suns seeing more play as the go to ramp spell), and isn't able to kill a Titan/Elesh Norn once they ramp into it. I mentioned how he loses out on being able to play Curse of Death's Hold by going U/W, but his own Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite should work to the same effect(although if he were playing Esper, he would be able to run both Elesh Norn and Curse).

I am not trying to say that this build is bad, or that it is unplayable, or anything of that sort. As a matter of fact, his deck looks pretty solid.

What I am saying is that this deck does not seem to have any better of a matchup against WRR than any other Control deck does. Not like that is any reason to scrap the idea, just that it doesn't make any sense when the OP says the deck has a good matchup against WRR. It runs the same answers to WRR as U/B and Esper Control do, and both of those decks have a bad matchup against WRR, why should this be any different if it is running those same exact answers?

Edit: Just as a quick aside, right now, Control's best option for dealing with Primeval Titan, outside of Counterspells(which are much less reliable now due to Cavern of Souls) seems to be Memoricide (which gets rid of all your opponents Prime Times) and the Stonehorn Dignitary lock, which locks out Prime Time/Wolf Run/Nexus all in one go.
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  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.




 Thanks Rorix for even considering to play my list, let alone taking it to your playgroup to actually try it. Most will just look at a decklist and pick it apart before even seeing how it performs. I am curious what you tested against and how well it did for you in each individual matchup.
So far the only deck to give me trouble is this WRR four color abomination my friend put together. But even then we were pretty even in the games.
Blue White CONTROL
  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.




 Thanks Rorix for even considering to play my list, let alone taking it to your playgroup to actually try it. Most will just look at a decklist and pick it apart before even seeing how it performs. I am curious what you tested against and how well it did for you in each individual matchup.
So far the only deck to give me trouble is this WRR four color abomination my friend put together. But even then we were pretty even in the games.



All of my playgroup think this deck can be viable I tested it out against RG Aggro, Delver and WRR and none of the matchups were worse than 60/40 in their favour which was better than what I was putting up with Solar Flare especially against RG Aggro.
I'm going to continue to test both decks for a while and see if I can find any reason to play one over the other at the ptq and wcq.
I'll be able to get better testing done once AVR released on MODO so I'm kind of waiting for that.

I could potentially put up some playtest videos online somewhere for people to watch who are interested in playing this deck I'll have to see.

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  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.




With 7-8 wraths and 2 oblivion rings in the original list I am not too worried about big creatures. The righteous blow is for real I promise you. That card kills a strangleroot geist once so I can kill it against with a DOJ. Not to mention it deals with Nexus really well. So I just Wrath or O-ring Titans away and just deal with Nexi with GQ and Righteous blow and when Elesh Norn comes down she ends the Nexus plan. Tamiyo can come down and tap down a Titan. Gideon can be a shield from any pumped up creatures.
One way I have dealt with WRR is to counter their ramp and Huntmasters and keep them off that 6 mana that is so important and land a Tamiyo to delay the Titan long enough for me to gather answers or devise a plan to deal with the eventual resolved titan. Or I just top a Entreat and make a few Angels that do them in quickly.
The deck does well against WRR I designed it to do so while also attacking the Aggro-centric meta we seem to have at the moment.

The only removal I mentioned was worse in his build than the average U/B build is Righteous Blow, since it doesn't hit mana dorks early(I will admit, this is less of an issue with Sphere of the Suns seeing more play as the go to ramp spell), and isn't able to kill a Titan/Elesh Norn once they ramp into it. I mentioned how he loses out on being able to play Curse of Death's Hold by going U/W, but his own Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite should work to the same effect(although if he were playing Esper, he would be able to run both Elesh Norn and Curse).

I am not trying to say that this build is bad, or that it is unplayable, or anything of that sort. As a matter of fact, his deck looks pretty solid.

What I am saying is that this deck does not seem to have any better of a matchup against WRR than any other Control deck does. Not like that is any reason to scrap the idea, just that it doesn't make any sense when the OP says the deck has a good matchup against WRR. It runs the same answers to WRR as U/B and Esper Control do, and both of those decks have a bad matchup against WRR, why should this be any different if it is running those same exact answers?

Edit: Just as a quick aside, right now, Control's best option for dealing with Primeval Titan, outside of Counterspells(which are much less reliable now due to Cavern of Souls) seems to be Memoricide (which gets rid of all your opponents Prime Times) and the Stonehorn Dignitary lock, which locks out Prime Time/Wolf Run/Nexus all in one go.



Blue White CONTROL
  It could just come down to my playstyle , I don't know. All I know is I don't worry about countering Titans now, I just sweep them and sweep them some more, Oring a couple and Ghost Quarter some Wolf runs or Nexus. Righteous blow takes care of Nexus as well as Elesh Norn helps with it too.



I like the build from your OP alot I tested it out with my playgroup whilst experimenting with Solar Flare and it seemed like it's pretty solid across the board to me. I might even sleeve it up for my upcoming ptq after a few tweaks for the local meta. I'm not really sure what Ion is on about it with the removal being worse against WRR than UB and Esper since they don't even play mana dorks except a singleton Birds occasionally and apart from that the matchup seems more than fine to me.

I don't think the miracle version can make it into competitve play not enough library manipulation in the format but that doesn't mean that UW Control isn't a viable strategy I think it definitely is.




 Thanks Rorix for even considering to play my list, let alone taking it to your playgroup to actually try it. Most will just look at a decklist and pick it apart before even seeing how it performs. I am curious what you tested against and how well it did for you in each individual matchup.
So far the only deck to give me trouble is this WRR four color abomination my friend put together. But even then we were pretty even in the games.



All of my playgroup think this deck can be viable I tested it out against RG Aggro, Delver and WRR and none of the matchups were worse than 60/40 in their favour which was better than what I was putting up with Solar Flare especially against RG Aggro.
I'm going to continue to test both decks for a while and see if I can find any reason to play one over the other at the ptq and wcq.
I'll be able to get better testing done once AVR released on MODO so I'm kind of waiting for that.

I could potentially put up some playtest videos online somewhere for people to watch who are interested in playing this deck I'll have to see.



Awesome and thank you for the feedback. I haven't posted the sideboard yet, but the control match becomes better as well and we can bring in other needed answers to help some matchups as well. Here is the board.

Could just make the 2 dissipates into another negate and a second divine offering or revoke existence.
Blue White CONTROL
I am not saying you are lacking answers for the WRR matchup.

What I am confused about is how this deck somehow has a better matchup against WRR than the other Control decks being run at the moment.

With 7-8 wraths and 2 oblivion rings in the original list I am not too worried about big creatures. The righteous blow is for real I promise you. That card kills a strangleroot geist once so I can kill it against with a DOJ. Not to mention it deals with Nexus really well. So I just Wrath or O-ring Titans away and just deal with Nexi with GQ and Righteous blow and when Elesh Norn comes down she ends the Nexus plan. Tamiyo can come down and tap down a Titan. Gideon can be a shield from any pumped up creatures.
One way I have dealt with WRR is to counter their ramp and Huntmasters and keep them off that 6 mana that is so important and land a Tamiyo to delay the Titan long enough for me to gather answers or devise a plan to deal with the eventual resolved titan. Or I just top a Entreat and make a few Angels that do them in quickly.
The deck does well against WRR I designed it to do so while also attacking the Aggro-centric meta we seem to have at the moment.



Everything you say here can be done be either U/B, Esper, or both. Esper even has access to some WRR hate that you don't via Curse of Death's Hold and Memoricide and yet both U/B and Esper STILL have a bad matchup against WRR.

So how exactly does this have a better matchup against WRR than U/B or Esper?

I am not saying your deck is bad or that it doesn't do well. All I am saying is that it is misleading to say it has a good matchup against WRR when all of the decks running the same answers to WRR have a bad matchup against it.

What exactly makes this deck better against WRR than U/B or Esper? I am just not seeing it. If you want to back up your claim, please provide evidence as to WHY it has a good matchup against WRR, or at least why it has a better matchup against WRR than U/B or Esper.
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One thing I can get away with is running 4 Ghost Quarter without making my mana base shaky. That helps.
Blue White CONTROL
One thing I can get away with is running 4 Ghost Quarter without making my mana base shaky. That helps.



That I will accept. 1-2 more Ghost Quarter doesn't seem like it would change the matchup by that much though.

U/B can run 4x Ghost Quarter just as easily. I guess the case could be made that they lose out on a lot of the good stuff from not including white (Terminus, DoJ, Celestial Purge, Gideon, Elesh Norn, O-Ring, Entreat the Angels), but they have plenty of stuff to make up for that (BSZ, Barter in Blood, Liliana, Sever the Bloodline, Despise, Memoricide, Curse of Death's Hold).

As for Esper, they lose out on 1-2 Ghost Quarter but gain the ability to run all of the above mentioned black cards, which seems to me would balance it out to about even with your deck.
"I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God."
Here's my latest version of UW Control I just sleeved up to test inspired by shredders list from the OP.


I'll begin testing when I finish playing D3 which is probably going to be never since I've already been up over 24hrs playing the game I'm just having a break to write this for a minute.

Also Chapin posted an article on UW Miracle Control on premium if you want to check out I suspected somebody would try to incorporate it into standard and there's no one better than him to do that imo.

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Blue White CONTROL
Here's my latest version of UW Control I just sleeved up to test inspired by shredders list from the OP.


I'll begin testing when I finish playing D3 which is probably going to be never since I've already been up over 24hrs playing the game I'm just having a break to write this for a minute.

Also Chapin posted an article on UW Miracle Control on premium if you want to check out I suspected somebody would try to incorporate it into standard and there's no one better than him to do that imo.



Looks good. Glad I have inspired your own build
The ratchet bomb just for tokens? I found my deck to originally just easily decimate tokens. Let me know how your testing goes, I will be testing with friends tonight as well. I will post my findings later on tonight.
Blue White CONTROL
question:  how don't these decks just run outta gas?  the decks are really weak in the raw card drawing area.  i know when i'm playing control these days, i often times just run out of cards.  i hate to suggest it often, but divination really seems important just to not run out of steam, especially trying to go into the late game.  even a blue sun's zenith maybe is ok.

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question:  how don't these decks just run outta gas?  the decks are really weak in the raw card drawing area.  i know when i'm playing control these days, i often times just run out of cards.  i hate to suggest it often, but divination really seems important just to not run out of steam, especially trying to go into the late game.  even a blue sun's zenith maybe is ok.



I don't know what it is but I just never really felt  out of gas when I played this deck friday night. It just provides advantage in its own unique ways I suppose.
I have toyed with the thought of playing USZ in here though.
Blue White CONTROL