Monster Advice needed

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Hey all,

Has anyone done any conversions of MM and MM2 monsters to reflect the new damage suggestions put out by erratta?

I have read in a few places to double the damage and half the hp of monsters...how deadly are games that do this? 

If a creature did 2d10+3 damage, did you literally double it to 4d10+6?

I am reigniting my 18th level campaign and could use some advice to make it more challlenging.

Best,

BG.
The monster math changes do not double damage or half hp, this is a houserule used by those wanting faster combat. It likely wont make games more deadly, but will make them more swingy as more is dependant on fewer dice rolls since enemies are presumably dead faster.


My advice to make enemies more challenging would be to give enemies either increased damage or aoe effects, as well as to give enemies way to nimbly move around.


Also things with dominate, especially on MBA classes, can really tick players off Tongue Out 
Hey all,

Has anyone done any conversions of MM and MM2 monsters to reflect the new damage suggestions put out by erratta?

I have read in a few places to double the damage and half the hp of monsters...how deadly are games that do this? 

If a creature did 2d10+3 damage, did you literally double it to 4d10+6?

I am reigniting my 18th level campaign and could use some advice to make it more challlenging.

Best,

BG.

The updated damage expressions are approx. monster level+8 for average damage (Though I recommend +16 at paragon and +24 at Epic).  Pretty easy to do on the fly.
Hey all,

Has anyone done any conversions of MM and MM2 monsters to reflect the new damage suggestions put out by erratta?

I have read in a few places to double the damage and half the hp of monsters...how deadly are games that do this? 

If a creature did 2d10+3 damage, did you literally double it to 4d10+6?

I am reigniting my 18th level campaign and could use some advice to make it more challlenging.

Best,

BG.



you could double it and it would likely still be too weak to be honest. heres my two cents

i make my solos immune stun and dominate. usually my elites as well.

you can go line by line on the errata for damage, but even then you will have some pretty weak monsters vs even moderately optimized level 18s. for mm1 and mm2 monsters you can try something like this

frothsof4e.blogspot.com/2012/03/quick-fi...

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"1. attack bonuses-easy thing to fix. since they are pre mm3 monsters, and as such have lower damage expressions, go ahead and make attacks vs ac level+6 and vs nads level+4. very simple, just remember +6 and +4. the accuracy boost goes a long way
2. make both the ranged basics and melee basics allow two attacks. this dramatically increases accuracy obviously and that is the balance vs the weaker damage. so if you see that its a basic attack, just tell yourself you can make it twice. pretty simple. you may have to designate a ranged at will as a basic attack on some older monsters
3. lower the recharge number of powers by one. so a recharge 5 power becomes a recharge 4. encounter powers change to recharge on a 6. easy to remember
4. add 1/2 their level to the damage rolls. simple
5. depending on how the encounter is going, let them free action attack when they are bloodied and/or when they die"



you would need to push that a little more for level 18s. i would experiment with your group in play to find the balance. there are other ideas on my blog as well

bottom line, multiple attacks to increase accuracy with increased damage. also try some auto-damaging auras, 10-15 damage entering or starting their turn in the aura, or autodamage environmental stuff

if you dont want to go the multi-attack/autodamage route, here are some other interesting ideas

dmg42.blogspot.com/2012/02/boot-on-face-...


its a shame that wizards is going ahead with a new edition while knowingly leaving paragon and epic so broken. i have run epic games doing 30 damage to every pc at the start of their turns with a solo that makes six attacks and only killed one pc 
User FROTHSOF has a nice short blog titled: Fixes to Old Crappy Mosters

frothsof4e.blogspot.com/2012/03/quick-fi...

Basicaly:

1. attack bonuses-easy thing to fix. since they are pre mm3 monsters, and as such have lower damage expressions, go ahead and make attacks vs ac level+6 and vs nads level+4. very simple, just remember +6 and +4. the accuracy boost goes a long way
2. make both the ranged basics and melee basics allow two attacks. this dramatically increases accuracy obviously and that is the balance vs the weaker damage. so if you see that its a basic attack, just tell yourself you can make it twice. pretty simple. you may have to designate a ranged at will as a basic attack on some older monsters
3. lower the recharge number of powers by one. so a recharge 5 power becomes a recharge 4. encounter powers change to recharge on a 6. easy to remember
4. add 1/2 their level to the damage rolls. simple
5. depending on how the encounter is going, let them free action attack when they are bloodied and/or when they die.
Well then...

I opend this thread in a new tab to read later, and when I got to replying, FROTHSOF already beat me to it! lol
it is much appreciated! the topic comes up a lot and it is dear to my heart as i have been 'that dm' that ran the epic game that was a cake walk before. so thanks pgaither!
question to FROTHSOF:

When you say make two attacks, do you mean two rolls, or two physical attacks? As in, the creature attacks twice in it's turn?
question to FROTHSOF:

When you say make two attacks, do you mean two rolls, or two physical attacks? As in, the creature attacks twice in it's turn?



yeah go ahead and attack the full attack twice instead of once, damage and all. the added chance to hit makes the lower damage not matter as much. a lot of monsters already have a double attack, but this is giving them all one if they were pre-mm3.

at level 18 even my tips are not going to be enough, i would def use some auto damage. level 18 pcs are quite tough. but different groups are different so i would experiment with what works with your party

another thing, its kind of a small tip but always give minions a ranged and melee attack so they always get an attack no matter where you place them. i would always give them a death attack of some sort
I want to run a KotS soon with my friends. What changes would you make? We are also looking at a 3 PC party, not 5-6.
I want to run a KotS soon with my friends. What changes would you make? We are also looking at a 3 PC party, not 5-6.



hmm. thats more than i can answer in one post. it would be a combo of running the weaker encounters as-is, taking out monsters of other encounters and adjusting the ones you leave in, and docking hp on solos and elites, or some combo of all of these. one of my groups is a three player group and there are some adjustments you might have to make just based on their role and whether they are ranged or melee.

it could be a great opportunity to use my henchman and hireling rules, as well as my morale rules for 4e. in fact, that could be really fun

frothsof4e.blogspot.com/2012/04/henchmen...

frothsof4e.blogspot.com/2012/04/morale-i...



I'm reading all that now... n00b question: What is nads?
I'm reading all that now... n00b question: What is nads?



non-armor class defenses. fort, ref, and will
gaither-one other tip with my henchman rules, dont pick too many themes. it will be a pain to track. maybe have half be outlaws, half mercenaries, something like that
Lower level monsters tend not to be the issue math-wise, its mostly how stuff scales over levels.
Frothsof, that's a great blog.  I'm sorry I hadn't seen it before.  I've added it to the Dungeon Master Resource.
thanks wrecan, thats a big compliment!
Hey all,

Has anyone done any conversions of MM and MM2 monsters to reflect the new damage suggestions put out by erratta?

I have read in a few places to double the damage and half the hp of monsters...how deadly are games that do this? 

If a creature did 2d10+3 damage, did you literally double it to 4d10+6?

I am reigniting my 18th level campaign and could use some advice to make it more challlenging.

Best,

BG.

For 18th level PCs, you might also considered reskinning triggered powers. Some powers (such as exploding monsters upon death) work a lot better as Free Actions or No Actions rather than Immediate Actions.

With the insane amount of dazed, stunned, dominated conditions that PCs throw around, reskinning these triggered action makes for a much fun combat.   
no doubt, i always change that unless it has to be an interrupt to work properly. that is sound advice
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I like to throw lots of minions at the party. Running a game where everyone is a striker--tough monsters drop with brutal speed. At 1st level they took on a lvl4 solo and creamed in in 4 rounds. Most fights only last 3 rounds, and the last round is pure mop-up.

But minions...
Does not matter how much damage you do, but having 4-5 times the number of targets made a big difference.
One thing I would suggest is to give minions HP=LVL. Lvl 8 minion has 8hp. Static damage is usually enough to destroy them, but not always.

Monster auras that let them do a basic melee are nice ways to beef up the encounter. I made a creature based on a horror-clix mini. It was a zombie in a straight-jacket chained to a pole. Gave him aura 3 to attack anything that entered his area, and a close burst at-will. No problem for the ranged strikers, but really tough on the melee guys. Plus there were other monsters that pushed. The undead circus... great fun.
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