AVR x3 draft 2

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HARVESTER. I loves him.
I am White/Black
Harvester is the clear pick.

Much more interesting is what would you take if this was a junk rare.  I think it comes down to Vanguard, Commander and the Shade.  The Shade may be the strongest card but is also the most mana intensive.  Commander is a real pain to deal with as flicker effects can make his ability hard to deal with in combat.  Vanguard is a 3 power flyer that draws you a card. 

I think I would take the Vanguard but what do others think?
Harvester of Souls

I'm not thrilled to be passing on the Evernight Shade and potentially putting the next person into black, but can't do anything about that.
Harvester.

I think if it were a junk rare I would go with with the Commander, but I am partial to white. Vanguard and Shade are both good as well as the Thunderbolt and the Thatcher Revolt.
Harvester.

If it wasn't here, I think the clear pick would be the Commander or Thunderbolt.  Commander is very strong, and puts you into a very good color.  Thunderbolt is extremely good removal and would allow you to force R/x pretty easily.  I think red based aggro can be very strong in this format.

I've yet to be impressed by the Shade.  It's terrible without huge mana investment.  I don't think it will be in the next 3-4 picks, so we shouldn't be worried about putting someone near us into black.
Harvester... with a rare that good there's little reason to look at the other cards. Aside from possible soul bond combos I can't think of anything better in the uncommon or common picks.
Harvester over Shade and Commander.
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I've been really, really unimpressed with how Harvester actually plays, so I want to take the Goldnight Commander instead.  Of course, to take it we're passing the Thatcher Revolt that becomes Ball Lightning+Overrun with the commander in play, but the fact remains that we don't want to be in black, and we want to put the guy into our left in black if possible.

Harvester is a trap.

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I agree with Tevish.  Black isn't where we want to be, and I'm happy to take a worse card if it puts me in a better color and keeps the guy on my left in something subpar.  The [Card]Goldnight Commander[/Card] is pretty powerful, so I'm into it.  catowner seems to value [Card]Gryff Vanguard[/Card] appropriately too I think.  My vote's for Goldnight Commander.

That said, the Harvester is the best card in this pack for sure.
I want to try making Harvester work. I think a lot of people think of black as worse than it is. Because Black can be boss in AVR if you do it right.
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Keep in mind that black being consider weak also helps us.  More people will stay out of the color, allowing us to pick up very late playables.

I've seen the Harvester do some awesome work.  I'm not sold on it being a trap.

Because Black can be boss in AVR if you do it right.

I did it.  In sealed no less.  Harvester underpreformed there.  I'd much rather have a reliablly solid card like the Commander, especially when it positions us for flickering and soulbond goodstuff *or* red centric creature-layin' aggro.

The best thing about draft is Death Wind, and if people are smart we won't get passed any of those no matter how hard we cut black.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

harvester may be a trap but he's still a huge monster at very least.
Harvester.

In AVRx3, I'm not sure I buy the argument black is not a good color to be in; it has about the only removal of consequence.
I can't believe people are considering taking anything else other than Harvester here it's the clear pick regardless of how powerful black is in the format.
In fact mono black can be a fairly strong archetype if you force it early I've found in the few drafts that I've done so far.

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harvester.
It's also not unreasonable to splash for him in a green-based deck.
harvester

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I still think we're making a big tactical blunder here, and harvester is quickly reaching "Most overrated" in my esteem.  You all seem to think that the harvester is worthy of bomb status, that it's going to swing FTW or fill your hand up effectivley or both.

I once thought as you did.  If we actually text-dueled out the results of these drafts, perhaps you would come to understand its... mediocrity... as I have.

That said, I see the writing on the wall.  After this post, I'll try to not complain about in the thread, because the last thing we need is another Argument About Past Picks.  Just understand that in my view, We are not committed to black.  It's a horrible color to be in and unless we manage to pull 5+ copies between Death Wind, Bone Splinters, and Barter, forsaking the efficency of red and/or the share of set mechanics (flicker, Soulbond) that we see powerfully in blue, green, and white is just not worth it to allow Black to make a full contribution to a final deck that doesn't make better pulls than Harvester.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

My pick is for the commander. There isn't much white we're passing here, and we can easily go , , or even if enough of the green soulbond guys come around
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While black certainly looks like it will be a bad color in AVR, I don't think you can bet against the Harvester itself. It's exactly the sort of card that wins limited games. I wouldn't bet against it anymore than I would bet against Bloodgift Demon or Murder of Crows.
Harvester for sure.  I love going into underdrafted colors.
Harvester.

Black may be the weakest color this time around, but we don't have to cut it hard. Also, I've seen quality black cards stay in the packs stupidly long, as everyone is doing their best to avoid it.

I know Maalfeld Twins is another 6 drop but I don't want to follow up a double black spell with a double white spell in a set with almost no fixing outside of green. 

We can also try to go for the single creature black deck but that will depend on us finding some Barter in Blood, Demonic Rising, Demonic Taskmaster etc.

I'd say go with Twins. Thunderbolt, Defy Death and Seraph are all viable, but Twins work great with sac mechanics.
I think we take a non-black spell here and see if the black cards wheel.  I don't think anyone else will be in black, and I don't really want to have to pick any of those cards second.  I'd be happy to have any of them in our deck if we were absolutely going to be heavy black, but I'm not sure we are yet.

I don't feel we have to restrain ourselves from taking a single colored cost card here.  Yes, Harvester is double black, but it's also a six drop.  If we can't reliably hit BB by turn 6 (or so), then we're likely in a 3-color deck, which is very bad.

I'm a bit torn here between Seraph of Dawn and Thunderbolt.  The Seraph is very good, and can hold off a lot of damage.  The Bolt is just a good removal spell all around.  I think red lends itself to a much more aggressive build, which might pair well with black's loners.  However, I feel that B/W control/big stuff can also be a decent deck.  If we feel like being aggressive, I think we take the Bolt.  If we want to be more controling, we take the Seraph.

I think I'd take the Seraph here.  It's very good and can fit into a lot of decks.  If we take it, the person to our left might not end up in white, giving us a little cushion in later packs.
Twins are TERRIBLE.  I played with them and never wanted them for a moment.  Grave Exchange is better bang for 6 mana.

Seraph of Dawn is the objectivley best card in this pack.  If we want to do this black thing, Soulcage Fiend is amazing for us, having a 3-power body at 3 mana, with a usually beneficial ability.  Aside from removal, Soulcages are, along with marrow bats and drivers, the sort of thing we need to make a black deck actually work.

I'm happy with either of the two, though I must say I'm partial to Mad's plan of nabbing the seraph and seeing if the black (especially the soulcage) wheels.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I was just about to write what Tevish said. If a black card is to be picked from this pack, it should be Soulcage Fiend. If not, it should be Seraph.  Personally I would like to draft an AVR deck with Seraph.
Seraph of Dawn

Pretty much for MadAdmiral's reasons. If the Soulcage Fiend wheels then that's a great sign and we can go all-out mono black (or close to it), otherwise let's see what the next couple of picks give us and go from there.
I'm fine with Serpah, but I think you are seriously underestimating a 4/4 that drops 2 bears on death. Trade twins with something -> Barter in Blood or Bonesplitters (or just throw on a trident).

Sucks that it's six, but it is still a good card.
Guys, there's a Vessel in there.
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Soulcage fiend... are you guys insane?   Vessel is good too.
I am White/Black
I generally like to stick to best card in the pack for the first few picks unless I'm trying to force something. Pretty much following the Admiral's reasoning I like Seraph here and seeing if we get passed any of the black removal that would make us want to go heavy black.
i think i'm liking vessel as well.
Vessel is fixing, and fixing at 3 mana.  9 times out of ten, it's worse than a Signet.  It shouldn't be going higher than 4th pick and should probably go somewhere in the 5-8 range in general unless a pack is psychotically weak.  When this has Seraph and Soulcage, it is not that kind of weak.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Seraph, for the reasons stated.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Vessel is a 3 cmc mana fixer and producer.

Seraph of dawn creates 4-point lifeswings every turn with an evasive body.

How is this even a contest? 



Thank goodness shock wasn't up for consideration, apparently that is a contest :-p
Vessel is a 3 cmc mana fixer and producer.

Seraph of dawn creates 4-point lifeswings every turn with an evasive body.

How is this even a contest? 



Thank goodness shock wasn't up for consideration, apparently that is a contest :-p



I saw that conflict play out in the last draft, and I thought you were right.  Subsequently, I think this is a pretty hilarious comment.  Touche!  I'm in for [Card]Seraph of Dawn[/Card], but I like [Card]Soulcage Fiend[/Card] too.
Vessel is a 3 cmc mana fixer and producer.

Seraph of dawn creates 4-point lifeswings every turn with an evasive body.

How is this even a contest? 



Thank goodness shock wasn't up for consideration, apparently that is a contest :-p


If you're referring to the second pick, I sided with you on that one.
If you're referring to the third pick, by that time we were clearly r/x aggro, and angel isn't good in aggro. 



I think the Angel is good in everything. It's a card I would include as many copies of as possible (the only stipulation being that I wouldn't want to completely clog my 4 slot) I don't think you can decide for certain what architype and colors you are in until you've drafted at least 4 cards.