Cavern of Souls Question

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My opponent plays a Cavern of Souls and mistakenly names Titan as the creature type.  According to the current Competitive rule set, I do not have to correct him.  Later in the tournament, he tries to use that Cavern to cast a Sun Titan and only has 1 source of white mana.  When I call the judge over, what is the call?
since Titan is not a valid creature type he can't choose it in the first place

but i'm not sure what the consequences of that are.
proud member of the 2011 community team
My opponent plays a Cavern of Souls and mistakenly names Titan as the creature type.  According to the current Competitive rule set, I do not have to correct him.

This is not correct. You no longer need to point out your opponent's triggers for them, but you can't let them take illegal actions like naming a non-existent creature type. This is still failure to maintain game state if accidental and fraud if intentional.


All Generalizations are Bad
According to the current Competitive rule set, I do not have to correct him.

3. GAME PLAY ERRORS<br />Both players are expected to maintain the game rules and to share some responsibility for any errors that may occur involving public information. As a result, no attempt should be made to determine or correct any advantage gained in assessing the penalty and associated procedures for fixing the offense. Additionally, for most Game Play Errors&nbsp;not caught within a time that a player could reasonably be expected to notice, teammates and opponents receive a Game Play Error &mdash; Failure to Maintain Game State penalty. In multiplayer games, all participants in the match other than the offending player should receive this penalty if they meet the criteria.</p><br /> <p>3.6. &nbsp;Game Play Error &mdash; Game Rule Violation<br />Philosophy<br />While Game Rule Violations can be attributed to one player, they usually occur publicly and both players are expected to be mindful of what is happening in the game. It is tempting to try and &ldquo;fix&rdquo; these errors, but it is important that they be handled consistently, regardless of their impact on the game.</p><br /> <p>3.7.&nbsp;Game Play Error &mdash; Failure to Maintain Game State <br />Definition<br />A player allows another player in the game to commit a Game Play Error involving an effect or action that he or she does not control, and has not pointed it out immediately. If a judge believes a player is intentionally not pointing out other players&rsquo; illegal actions, either for his or her own advantage, or in the hope of bringing it up at a more strategically advantageous time, the infraction is Cheating &mdash; Fraud. Not pointing out an opponent&rsquo;s missed trigger is never Failure to Maintain Game State or Fraud.</p><br /> <p>Philosophy<br />If an error is caught before a player could gain advantage, then the dangers of the ongoing game state becoming corrupted are much lower. If the error is allowed to persist, at least some of the fault lies with the opponent, who has also failed to notice the error. Judges should not usually upgrade this penalty, as players will be reluctant to call a judge if they believe that they could receive a significant penalty as a result.


You are liable for anything that goes wrong. None of this says otherwise. In fact, if he casts the Sun Titan and you call him out for it, if I were the judge, you would get the infraction. That would be a clear display of you recognizing an illegal game state and not ammending it for your own personal gain.

The penalties range from a Warning (standard illegal game state) to a Disqualification (cheating).

lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
You are liable for anything that goes wrong. None of this says otherwise. In fact, if he casts the Sun Titan and you call him out for it, if I were the judge, you would get the infraction. That would be a clear display of you recognizing an illegal game state and not ammending it for your own personal gain.


That would be jumping to conclusions. I, for example, wouldn't necessarily know off the top of my head whether or not Titan is a creature type, but I can see that it's not a creature type of Sun Titan. In that case, the mistake was not known until the Titan was being cast.

However, the OP has inferred that he did know, and chose not to say anything, believing that he was not required to do so. 

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

That would be jumping to conclusions. I, for example, wouldn't necessarily know off the top of my head whether or not Titan is a creature type, but I can see that it's not a creature type of Sun Titan. In that case, the mistake was not known until the Titan was being cast.

However, the OP has inferred that he did know, and chose not to say anything, believing that he was not required to do so. 


If a player names Titan and tries to cast a spell named Titan, it would be fairly obvious that he intended to use the mana to cast a Titan-like creature. Most solutions to illegal game states are resolved by an Occam's razor approach of the "most simple answer is often the most correct". If the players did not take it upon themselves to simply change the Cavern of Souls to "Giant" and called over a judge (which is actually proper), one of two explainations is likely to happen...

1) "Hey, we read Sun Titan and noticed that 'Titan' isn't actually a creature type. What should we do with this Cavern of Souls?"

2) ... is malicious. 
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
...you can't let them take illegal actions like naming a non-existent creature type. This is still failure to maintain game state if accidental and fraud if intentional.

I know that such is the rule.

What I still don't understand is how such a rule ever came to be
(beside the fact that it was copy-pasted from Chess Tournament Rules).
What justifies such a rule? How does one demonstrates its pertinence?
I cannot fathom WHY I, as a Player, should be acting as Judge when faced with an incompetent Opponent.

I've said this before, and I've heard numerous «arguments» to «justify» this rule.
None yet registered as valid. Each one I heard -yet- sums up to hogwash.
  


 
I'll bet someone will still reply with such powerful «argument» as «The rules says you have to maintain gamestate!»...
     
So I repeat: I know that such is the rule.
I'm just saying it should be deleted. 

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

what would be the alternative to that rule?
proud member of the 2011 community team
I say delete it.

Thus, the alternative is an empty space.

 

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

The rule exists to prevent a massive hate-filled ball of "wrong" that would inevitably and consistantly occur if the rule didn't exist.

"A third or subsequent Warning for a Game Play Error offense in the same category should be upgraded to a Game Loss."

If your opponent continuously ****s up and you call it out, they will be punished and you rewarded for your hard efforts of using common sense. Offenses do build up at higher events. Your opponent won't just recieve a thousand slaps on the wrist. However, if you're playing at an FNM-like event, you're likely to see the thousand slaps. In that case, it's your own damn fault for expecting more from a casual event.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
So Chaikov what happens when your opponent tries to cast it with the protection? You say "tough luck"?
While you may not like the rule, I like it a lot.

This is a card game, not a war. Our goal should be to have fun and learn strategy to win, not beat the opponent because he/she is unfamiliar with a complex 200 page rulebook.

The change of that rule would do more to destroy the atmosphere of friendliness that makes the game fun that anything I can think of.

I understand that it is not your responsibility to let your opponent win, but it is appropriate that those who understand the rules use that knowledge to help, not hurt, others.

Just my two cents.
So Chaikov what happens when your opponent tries to cast it with the protection? You say "tough luck"?

Not «tough luck».
I would call a judge for illegal play: Cavern is set on Titan, but Sun Titan is a Giant. 



Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

While you may not like the rule, I like it a lot.

Rules (and laws) should not depend on whether you and I like them or not;
they should exist if they are Fair and Logical.
I don't dislike that rule; I just believe it's illogical (and unfair!). 


This is a card game, not a war. Our goal should be to have fun and learn strategy to win, not beat the opponent because he/she is unfamiliar with a complex 200 page rulebook. (...) I understand that it is not your responsibility to let your opponent win, but it is appropriate that those who understand the rules use that knowledge to help, not hurt, others.

That's perfectly fine for CASUAL Magic.
Tournament play, with prizes of 50000$ is another story!
Even Pre-release, with prizes around 100$ (booster boxes) should not allow such illogical rules.

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

So Chaikov what happens when your opponent tries to cast it with the protection? You say "tough luck"?

Not «tough luck».
I would call a judge for illegal play: Cavern is set on Titan, but Sun Titan is a Giant.

since it can't be set on "Titan" what is the consequence there?

proud member of the 2011 community team
I am usually a stickler for rules, and agree with different rules at REL levels. Maybe that is a good suggestion for high level play, but at FNM etc it just turns people off.
That's perfectly fine for CASUAL Magic.
Tournament play, with prizes of 50000$ is another story!
Even Pre-release, with prizes around 100$ (booster boxes) should not allow such illogical rules.


Then what's your problem with calling out your opponent? Within this scenario only. Why are you against simply calling out your opponent?
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
I am usually a stickler for rules, and agree with different rules at REL levels. Maybe that is a good suggestion for high level play, but at FNM etc it just turns people off.

Agreed.
At FNM, I would allow my opponent to change the setting to (the obviously intended) Giant.



Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

That's perfectly fine for CASUAL Magic.
Tournament play, with prizes of 50000$ is another story!
Even Pre-release, with prizes around 100$ (booster boxes) should not allow such illogical rules.


Then what's your problem with calling out your opponent? Within this scenario only. Why are you against simply calling out your opponent?

I don't understand the question. Please rephrase.



Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

since it can't be set on "Titan" what is the consequence there?


He can use it only for colorless and get no counter protection I guess.

since it can't be set on "Titan" what is the consequence there?


"The penalties range from a Warning (standard illegal game state) to a Disqualification (cheating)."

Realistically, a "Caution" is also realistic. Unless it's deemed cheating or unsporting, nothing severe will ever happen.

As for resolution, that is up to the judge and/or players. The most likely scenario is simply that Titan becomes Giant. 
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
I meant if the rule was removed as Chaikov suggested
proud member of the 2011 community team
So Chaikov what happens when your opponent tries to cast it with the protection? You say "tough luck"?

Not «tough luck».
I would call a judge for illegal play: Cavern is set on Titan, but Sun Titan is a Giant.

since it can't be set on "Titan" what is the consequence there?


It depends.
If the mistake goes unnoticed, then so be it!
The Cavern will only be able to produce colorless mana. Boo hoo!

If anybody (player, judge or even bystander) reports it quickly, then THAT player gets a slap. But NOT ME!
Why would I get punished for my OPPONENT's mistake?

 

Wizards of the Coast: NOT ANYMORE outsourced to Elbonia

I don't understand the question. Please rephrase.


Your issue is that you have to play the judge. If you are competent enough to play the judge, you should be able to recognize faults and call a judge before the mistake can become associated with yourself. Yet, you seem to have a problem with this. Why?
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
If anybody (player, judge or even bystander) reports it quickly, then THAT player gets a slap. But NOT ME!
Why would I get punished for my OPPONENT's mistake?

you don't get punished for your opponent's mistakes, you get punished for YOUR mistake of failing to mention it earlier

proud member of the 2011 community team
So Chaikov what happens when your opponent tries to cast it with the protection? You say "tough luck"?

Not «tough luck».
I would call a judge for illegal play: Cavern is set on Titan, but Sun Titan is a Giant.

since it can't be set on "Titan" what is the consequence there?


It depends.
If the mistake goes unnoticed, then so be it!
The Cavern will only be able to produce colorless mana. Boo hoo!

If anybody (player, judge or even bystander) reports it quickly, then THAT player gets a slap. But NOT ME!
Why would I get punished for my OPPONENT's mistake?



Actually, choosing "Titan" would be an illegal action and the game state would be rewound.  Choosing a creature type is a mandatory action, and the game rules only allow existing types to be chosen (205.3e of the Comp Rules).
Actually, choosing "Titan" would be an illegal action and the game state would be rewound.  Choosing a creature type is a mandatory action, and the game rules only allow existing types to be chosen (205.3e of the Comp Rules).



And missing your Bitterblossom trigger to lose a life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue token into play.  But if you forget to do that, tough luck on your part, since I am not required anymore to play your deck for you.  My question is for Competitive or higher level events. 
And missing your Bitterblossom trigger to lose a life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue token into play.  But if you forget to do that, tough luck on your part, since I am not required anymore to play your deck for you.  My question is for Competitive or higher level events. 


And so is my answer. Also, regarding Cavern of Souls, that is still not an instance of a missed trigger.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
The magic rule book is more detailled than a Truck engine manual. It is unrealistic for especially new players to know all those little rules. Magic shouldn't be that complicated, but given that it is... they should iliminate any rule regarding not knowing the very minor details of the game that could grant a player a loss.

My oppinion, if my opponent makes a mistake and I am not aware of the rule, and someone points out that there was a mistake and the judge gets called and gives me a warning... that is completely wrong.

First off, I really dislike to see questions and answers of this nature escalate to name-calling and insults.  Let's all play fair in the forums.  A question was asked to us, the community, and he (or she) would like an answer.  Let's all work together on that.

This is a question for the Tournament Rules, not the Comprehensive rules.  A post on the previous page included copy-and-pasted tournment rules that are relevant to this situation.  Competetive events are where valuable prizes are at stake, or high recognition or event coverage, etc. Playing in this manner by both opponents is not permissible. Page 1 of the Infraction Procedure Guide says, "It [the Infraction Procedure Guide] exists to protect players from potential misconduct and to protect the integrity of the tournament itself. Rules violations usually require a penalty or they are unenforceable."

The original starter of this thread (danhenneke) assumed he (or she) did not have to correct his opponent.  He (or she) had thought it was like not having to point out a missed, lapsing trigger.  However, missed triggers are a separate part of the tournament rules.  This instead falls under game rule violation (not failure to maintain game state).  The danger is that the error was not pointed out right away, and that possibly the error was not pointed out because danhenneke hoped to gain an advantage later in the game by his opponent not being able to cast a creature spell with the word Titan in it.  But there are quite a few creature types in the comprehensive rules.  Maybe danhenneke didn't know Titan wasn't on the list.  After all, who knew that Mutant, Ninja, and Turtle are on that list, hm?  Where's Teenage?

Hopefully that makes things clearer and easier to understand.  Should username danhenneke continue to play this way in a tournament, it may not a fair environment for his (or her) future opponents.  Judges could believe that this player is always looking for illegal game plays by an opponent in order to gain an advantage and advance in the rounds and up the ranks.  Therefore, there must be a penalty so that all players are always on high alert in the game to maintain legal game state.  That way, those that win prizes have done so due to skill, rules knowledge, and luck, as opposed to trickery and deceipt.

Out-of-game, here on the forums, I can't say which penalties would have been applied.  I would say, though, that this would be a 3.6 Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation and the penalty would be a Warning to both players.  I also took note of the Additional Remedy section.  It says, "the judge should leave the game state as it is...and not attempt any form of partial 'fix'--either reverse all actions or none, with the following exceptions:"  The first bullet listed is, "If a player made an illegal choice or failed to make a required choice for a permanent on the battlefield, that player makes a legal choice."  Danhenneke's opponent would choose Giant at this time.  That opponent should, in the future, name a legal creature type when playing Cavern of Souls.

Teachable Level 1 Judge
Danhenneke's opponent would choose Giant at this time.  That opponent should, in the future, name a legal creature type when playing Cavern of Souls.



What if the opponent is unaware of the creature type "Giant", or forgets that the type "Giant" exists, or knows that "Giant" exists but can't remember the creature type of a Titan?

Are you going to just inform the player of the correct creature type? That looks highly like giving strategic help to a player during an event.
Danhenneke's opponent would choose Giant at this time.  That opponent should, in the future, name a legal creature type when playing Cavern of Souls.



What if the opponent is unaware of the creature type "Giant", or forgets that the type "Giant" exists, or knows that "Giant" exists but can't remember the creature type of a Titan?

Are you going to just inform the player of the correct creature type? That looks highly like giving strategic help to a player during an event.


A player can ask a judge for the oracle text of any card they can uniquely identify.
All Generalizations are Bad
Danhenneke's opponent would choose Giant at this time.  That opponent should, in the future, name a legal creature type when playing Cavern of Souls.



What if the opponent is unaware of the creature type "Giant", or forgets that the type "Giant" exists, or knows that "Giant" exists but can't remember the creature type of a Titan?

Are you going to just inform the player of the correct creature type? That looks highly like giving strategic help to a player during an event.


A player can ask a judge for the oracle text of any card they can uniquely identify.



Oh right. Hmm, guess that's a moot point then.

First off, I really dislike to see questions and answers of this nature escalate to name-calling and insults.  Let's all play fair in the forums.  A question was asked to us, the community, and he (or she) would like an answer.  Let's all work together on that.
...
The original starter of this thread (danhenneke) assumed he (or she) did not have to correct his opponent.  He (or she) had thought it was like not having to point out a missed, lapsing trigger.  However, missed triggers are a separate part of the tournament rules.  This instead falls under game rule violation (not failure to maintain game state).  The danger is that the error was not pointed out right away, and that possibly the error was not pointed out because danhenneke hoped to gain an advantage later in the game by his opponent not being able to cast a creature spell with the word Titan in it.  But there are quite a few creature types in the comprehensive rules.  Maybe danhenneke didn't know Titan wasn't on the list.  After all, who knew that Mutant, Ninja, and Turtle are on that list, hm?  Where's Teenage?

Hopefully that makes things clearer and easier to understand.  Should username danhenneke continue to play this way in a tournament, it may not a fair environment for his (or her) future opponents.  Judges could believe that this player is always looking for illegal game plays by an opponent in order to gain an advantage and advance in the rounds and up the ranks.  Therefore, there must be a penalty so that all players are always on high alert in the game to maintain legal game state.  That way, those that win prizes have done so due to skill, rules knowledge, and luck, as opposed to trickery and deceipt.

Out-of-game, here on the forums, I can't say which penalties would have been applied.  I would say, though, that this would be a 3.6 Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation and the penalty would be a Warning to both players.  I also took note of the Additional Remedy section.  It says, "the judge should leave the game state as it is...and not attempt any form of partial 'fix'--either reverse all actions or none, with the following exceptions:"  The first bullet listed is, "If a player made an illegal choice or failed to make a required choice for a permanent on the battlefield, that player makes a legal choice."  Danhenneke's opponent would choose Giant at this time.  That opponent should, in the future, name a legal creature type when playing Cavern of Souls.





Thank you for the clarity in this post.  At times, trying to decipher which things are and are not covered under any particular rules section, subsection and then numbered and lettered sub-sub-subsection is confusing.  It would be easier if on cards like this in the Oracle they would state that "failing to do this is a . . . " and then list what kind of mistake and penalty to apply.  In this case, 'failing to name an appropriate creature type is a failure to maintain game state and must be corrected by the opponent if the mistake is made."  I know it is in the rules, but again, there are how many rules to play this game?  What falls under which corner case?  Finding the people who know the specific corner cases is why these boards exist, and I thank those of you who replied in a humane fashion.


 

There are a few things that raise red flags in my mind about this scenario.  First off, it was a competetive event, not a casual one.  At that level, a player should know some creature types.  Second, it appears to be a constructed tournament (not a limited one).  If I had constructed that deck, and had Cavern of Souls in it, I would really want to prepare well and know what creature types I have in my deck, so that I can name a valid one when that cavern comes into play.

In response to KyCygni's comment, it may look like strategic advise to tell an opponent that Titan is not a creature type, but it's really about keeping the game legal.  If the opponent has the cavern out with the intent to help pay for Sun Titan, then he or she should ask a judge to look up the oracle card and find out what the titan's creature type(s) is (are).  If they don't ask a judge, then they must name some legal creature type such as Goblin, and go with the repurcussions.  But, really, at a competetive event with constructed decks, the opponent should be better prepared than this.
Teachable Level 1 Judge
Chaikov posted
Rules (and laws) should not depend on whether you and I like them or not;
they should exist if they are Fair and Logical.
I don't dislike that rule; I just believe it's illogical (and unfair!). 

Perhaps like was the wrong word choice. I believe the rule is both logical and fair. I like it because I find it both logical and fair.

It is logical for the reasons I gave. It is not possible for there to be a judge constantly watching every move for legality. Therefore, it is up to the community to police itself. Otherwise lawlessness reigns, and nobody has any fun. The game would not be fun and not worth playing.

It is fair because it applies to all players, regardless of race, creed, or orientation. Everyone is required to point out things that create an illegal game state. That is what makes it fair.

If what you are contending is that it is not your fault if a player messes up and does something stupid, I cannot argue with that. However, this rule only applies to things that are not legal. If the player had chosen elf, then there would be no illegality, nor would you be required to say "are you sure you didn't mean giant?"

Here is the same question answered by Eli Shiffrin at cranialinsertion.com. Eli Shiffrin is a level 3 Regional Judge.
Q: My opponent named "Titan" with Cavern of Souls. Can I let that stand since the Titans are actually Giants and he won't get to spend the mana on them?

A: Oh boy, here's a fun loaded question. No, you may not allow your opponent to name an illegal creature type. He has to name a real type that exists in Magic.

Now, the fun is what to do if this has already happened. Your opponent will rewind his current action, most likely casting a Titan, and name an actual creature type, most likely Giant. Both players get a Warning for allowing an illegal thing to happen. Alternatively, the judge might just rule that "Titan" is a fairly clear shortcut for "Giant," since what the player meant is fairly unambiguous, and no one gets any penalties.

However, if you knew this was illegal and wanted him to suffer for an illegal action, your opponent's got a match win because you're getting disqualified. Don't let illegal things happen.

that sounds like a good compromise

if you don't know "Titan" is an illegal choice you can accept it as a "shortcut" for "Giant" (are there any other Giants in Standard right now?)
if you do know and don't stop your opponent you are cheating.
proud member of the 2011 community team
I like the rule.  It requires you to pay attention to what your opponent is doing.  I believe it is the responsibility of both players to ensure that the game is being played according to the rules.  I don't think it's healthy for the game, even at high-level tournaments, for the game to devolve into picking and choosing when to point out your opponent's rules mistakes in order to gain the most advantage.  That's not the game we should be playing.

This rule supports that notion.

(My opinion).
I am unfamiliar with the notion of "fairness" Chaikov appears to endorse. Mine includes, when playing a game with well-defined rules, playing by those rules. When an opponent does something illegal that happens to be to your advantage, knowingly allowing the game to continue after being corrupted in such a manner is not "fairness" but "cheating" which is very nearly the opposite. I really think it's as simple as that, and that is why the rule both is, and should be, on the books.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
The thing with paper Magic is that by themselves, the cards dont do anything - the game doesnt run by itself, so we have to move all the pieces forward, both physically and figuratively. The Game doesnt realise it cant do anything for itself, so assumes everything is going along smoothly, and continues to do so even if we drop the ball. So it is up to us to try to make sure that the game we act like we are playing matches the one that is actually going on. 

~ Tim  
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
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