Crafting

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Hi all, did a search on this and found some discussions about bards and instruments, not sure if anyone can shed some light.  First off, running my first dnd 4th edition game starting tomorrow.  Haven't dm'd in over 10 years, and it was a 2nd edition game.  I've played 3rd ed and 3.5 and they had rules for creating not magical items through various feats....but in 4th ed I cannot find a single feat/skill/ability that allows for the creation of items.  A character in my game would like to make jewelry.  She has the Merchant background.  What would signify the quality of the jewelry she makes.   Is there a list somewhere of basic jewelry or do I just assign a number based on the amount of time she spends on it.    I realize there are rituals for imbuing magic into mundane items but nothing to create every day normal rings/necklaces/amulets/tiaras etc.  

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. 
That's a background element that doesn't really warrant mechanical representation, so the rules leave it open.  It's up to you.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Its what I figured, I did a search in the Compendium and got nothing but I like being thorough.  Thanks for the reply, this edition is so vastly different from the DND that I'm used to....its almost more akin to an MMO in my opinion.
Its what I figured, I did a search in the Compendium and got nothing but I like being thorough.  Thanks for the reply, this edition is so vastly different from the DND that I'm used to....its almost more akin to an MMO in my opinion.



You created an account just to bring up this old argument again? 4e isn't like an mmo, though. MMO's have crafting.

You tie it into backgrounds, and if you absolutely have to roll some dice to say you made a sword, consult page 42. 
Its not an argument friend, I was asking if there was anything in 4th edition like a crafting skill/feat.  The answer I got was no.  Seeing as how I am just starting this edition tomorrow and having played DnD for over 15 years, I've simply offered my opinions on it.  So far it seems to me to resemble an mmo.  How you may ask?  Well in the case of spells and martial powers, you have your spam moves, and you have your cooldown moves.  No offense meant or implied.

Also, I find it humorous that you think I signed up to DnDinsider, created a forum profile JUST to dredge up for you what is an old argument.  I'm new, shoot me. 
Yep, D&D never had cooldown times before ... (looks over all the X per day abilities, including the entire spellcasting system)
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Well, it sort of had cooldown moves...you had to rest and re-memorize your spells to get them back.  Melee just attacked with their weapons. :P
Its not an argument friend, I was asking if there was anything in 4th edition like a crafting skill/feat.  The answer I got was no.  Seeing as how I am just starting this edition tomorrow and having played DnD for over 15 years, I've simply offered my opinions on it.  So far it seems to me to resemble an mmo.  How you may ask?  Well in the case of spells and martial powers, you have your spam moves, and you have your cooldown moves.  No offense meant or implied.

Also, I find it humorous that you think I signed up to DnDinsider, created a forum profile JUST to dredge up for you what is an old argument.  I'm new, shoot me. 



It's a logical fallacy that has been beat to death on these boards. I could throw the same argument to 3e, as 3e IS an mmo. DDO is 3e based. Seeing someone with 1 post come on here saying that is an instant red flag, and a very bad way to introduce yourself. 
Well, it sort of had cooldown moves...you had to rest and re-memorize your spells to get them back.  Melee just attacked with their weapons. :P



You still have to rest to regain your abilities. There are just 2 different kinds of rests. MMO's have nothing like this. They just have static timers.

In any case, back to crafting. Just roleplay it out. Again, if you have to roll some dice, just use page 42. You just no longer have to pay a massive opportunity cost for something as mundane as crafting. That is best handled through backgrounds and roleplaying. 
Well, it sort of had cooldown moves...you had to rest and re-memorize your spells to get them back.  Melee just attacked with their weapons. :P


Those are just your faceroller classes who just have to spam "1".  

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

Well, it sort of had cooldown moves...you had to rest and re-memorize your spells to get them back.  Melee just attacked with their weapons. :P


Those are just your faceroller classes who just have to spam "1".  



Even the martial classes had cooldowns. How many times per day can a Barbarian rage? Or how often can a monk use quivering palm?
I find it humorous that you think I signed up to DnDinsider, created a forum profile JUST to dredge up for you what is an old argument.  I'm new, shoot me. 

Right: to put his response in context, there actually had been posters that did basically just that (i.e. created a new alias, post a question about crafting skills specifically to create a flame war, then never post outside that thread). So it's become a "fool me once..." sort of thing.
Going to end this now by first apologizing, honestly I didn't mean to start a confrontation.  I got my response from Salla (thank you ever so much).  Move along move along, nothing further to see here.
There is one way to create non magical items - -one of the martial practices does it.   Martial practices are like rituals. You can pick up the ability with a feat  - and you learn the martical practices rather like learning rituals
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There is one way to create non magical items - -one of the martial practices does it.   Martial practices are like rituals. You can pick up the ability with a feat  - and you learn the martical practices rather like learning rituals.

Ah... Master Artisan. Good catch!

Which is really a waste of a feat ... you should just be able to do that if your background supports you having the skill to do so.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Its not an argument friend, I was asking if there was anything in 4th edition like a crafting skill/feat.  The answer I got was no.  Seeing as how I am just starting this edition tomorrow and having played DnD for over 15 years, I've simply offered my opinions on it.  So far it seems to me to resemble an mmo.  How you may ask?  Well in the case of spells and martial powers, you have your spam moves, and you have your cooldown moves.  No offense meant or implied.

Also, I find it humorous that you think I signed up to DnDinsider, created a forum profile JUST to dredge up for you what is an old argument.  I'm new, shoot me. 



It's a logical fallacy that has been beat to death on these boards. I could throw the same argument to 3e, as 3e IS an mmo. DDO is 3e based. Seeing someone with 1 post come on here saying that is an instant red flag, and a very bad way to introduce yourself. 



Funny, seems to me that jumping all over somebody when they clearly say they are just starting to DM again for the first time in 15 years  is a bad way to introduce yourself.  They have an opinon on the way the combat system works and that is all they compared it to.  4th Edition is SO different from 2nd that I see his point of view personally. 

I really like the way the combat system is now but over long fights it can sometimes become stale.  Luckily there are a ton of ways to make combat very interesting outside of the basic mechanics.
Its what I figured, I did a search in the Compendium and got nothing but I like being thorough.  Thanks for the reply, this edition is so vastly different from the DND that I'm used to....its almost more akin to an MMO in my opinion.



While I realize that there are other things that probably lead to this impression, due to lack of context, it sounds like it is the lack of crafting skills that drew you to this conclusion. This is actually one of the things that creates the greatest separation between D&D 4E and an MMO. MMOs are filled with ways for PCs to grind away crafting items for gold and XP. In 4E, this is done entirely through interaction with the DM.

By level 3, the potential profit of crafting mundane items is dwarfed by the profits reaped from adventuring. What you would make in a month of crafting can be made in a couple days of adventuring, and that is in the heroic levels. What you make adventuring in Paragon is miles beyond what you would make in a lifetime of crafting.

As such, mundane crafting is much more suitable as a sideline or background concern, something to give your character depth. In 4E, you almost never need to sacrifice your combat effectiveness to give your character depth. You and your DM do that together through roleplaying and collaborative storytelling. This is a complete 180 from every MMO (and AD&D 2E and D&D 3.x, too).

Its not an argument friend, I was asking if there was anything in 4th edition like a crafting skill/feat.  The answer I got was no.  Seeing as how I am just starting this edition tomorrow and having played DnD for over 15 years, I've simply offered my opinions on it.  So far it seems to me to resemble an mmo.  How you may ask?  Well in the case of spells and martial powers, you have your spam moves, and you have your cooldown moves.  No offense meant or implied.

Also, I find it humorous that you think I signed up to DnDinsider, created a forum profile JUST to dredge up for you what is an old argument.  I'm new, shoot me. 



It's a logical fallacy that has been beat to death on these boards. I could throw the same argument to 3e, as 3e IS an mmo. DDO is 3e based. Seeing someone with 1 post come on here saying that is an instant red flag, and a very bad way to introduce yourself. 



Funny, seems to me that jumping all over somebody when they clearly say they are just starting to DM again for the first time in 15 years  is a bad way to introduce yourself.  They have an opinon on the way the combat system works and that is all they compared it to.  4th Edition is SO different from 2nd that I see his point of view personally. 

I really like the way the combat system is now but over long fights it can sometimes become stale.  Luckily there are a ton of ways to make combat very interesting outside of the basic mechanics.



Someone with a brand new account comes in making a statement that has caused endless wars on the forums looks like a baiting attempt and nothing more. It has happened many times over the years where you'll see someone with a new account come in with statements like that and never make another post nor are they seen viewing the post at any time. Again, it throws up an army's worth of red flags at this point in time. 
When item crafting is importent to the story like-
"Make a gift worthy of a king" or
"Pose as a humble shopkeep to deceive the theives guild"

You can make it a skill challenge.     
Athletics for heavy lifting or hammer banging
Theivery for fine work and tinkering
Endurance to keep at it for a 12 hour shift
Nature if you are working alot of wood or animal products
Dungeoneering for stone or metal working
Any of the CHA skills for dealing with costomers, aprentices, supliers, or the city councile    
    
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
Quote "Which is really a waste of a feat ... you should just be able to do that if your background supports you having the skill to do so."

If a player wants an ability to do some thing that other players cant do - it should cost something, a feat, a skill pick, a theme option (perhaps) or background advantage etc- - - i would have thought. (i might personally agree it would be a waste of a feat)

Master artisan martial practice more geared for adventurers use rather than as a shop keepers. 
  
Quote "Which is really a waste of a feat ... you should just be able to do that if your background supports you having the skill to do so."

If a player wants an ability to do some thing that other players cant do - it should cost something, a feat, a skill pick, a theme option (perhaps) or background advantage etc- - - i would have thought. (i might personally agree it would be a waste of a feat)

Master artisan martial practice more geared for adventurers use rather than as a shop keepers. 
  



It is still a waste. It is something that should be available to everyone without an opportunity cost.
Thread NECROMANCY!

Yeah 4e has Martial Practices, and Rituals. Some of the PHB 1 rituals actually have to do with magic item enchanting. But actual item creation doesn't come along until Martial Power 2.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Thread NECROMANCY!

Yeah 4e has Martial Practices, and Rituals. Some of the PHB 1 rituals actually have to do with magic item enchanting. But actual item creation doesn't come along until Martial Power 2.



Okay, I have to ask. Why? xD (Especially when the Master Artisan practice was mentioned. . . last year.)
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