The Dungeon Survival Handbook Excerpt - Rewards

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Rewards
Dungeon Survival Handbook Excerpt
By Bart Carroll

In today's preview of the Dungeon Survival Handbook: Into the Unknown, we look at the reasons why adventurers risk life and limb to explore the game's dungeons in the first place—the promise of untold riches!

Talk about this Preview here.



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that kobold is riding a dragon...isn't that like a dwarf using Moradin as mount?
Well!  What a nice little (retro- throwback) surprise to put in the Dungeon Survival Handbook!  Scrolls of Power, go figure!Tongue Out

-DS
Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.


These have no rarity. They are given out as rewards to amazing quests and feats of heroism. They're like artifacts. Completely DM controlled.
holydoom.weebly.com: Holydoom! A lighthearted RPG in progress. Loosely based on 3.5. 4, and GURPS. Very, Very, Very loosely. Seriously, visit it now. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29086701/I_HIT_IT_WITH_MA_SWORD!_(like_this!):_A_Slayers_Handbook An attempt at CharOp
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While one report may say that FLGS report a greater amount of book sales, one cannot forget the fact that the 71000 DDI subscribers paying 6-10 dollars a month don't count as "Book Sales."
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General thoughts, feelings, and info on DDN!
Stuff I Heard Mike Say (subject to change): Multiclassing will be different than in 3.5! That's important. There is no level cap; classes advance ala 3.5 epic levels after a set level. Mundane (AKA fighter and co) encounter and daily powers will probably not be in the PHB (for the lack of space), but nor will they be in some obscure book released halfway through the edition.
You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.


These have no rarity. They are given out as rewards to amazing quests and feats of heroism. They're like artifacts. Completely DM controlled.



This.

Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

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Less silly, then.  Reassuring.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

Yeah, I like that these are not really spells or items, but rather controlled by the DM. This is the smart way to run it because it can be used to enhance the game with some great fantasy elements rather than derail it. I like it, good stuff.


The art for this is amazing. The Kobold looks so happy. I can just imagine him riding around the dragon, whooping it up like a big kid. Awesome!


Yeah, I like that these are not really spells or items, but rather controlled by the DM. This is the smart way to run it because it can be used to enhance the game with some great fantasy elements rather than derail it. I like it, good stuff.


The art for this is amazing. The Kobold looks so happy. I can just imagine him riding around the dragon, whooping it up like a big kid. Awesome!




The artist did a wonderful job with the description.
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
I love the artwork, and am thrilled at the prospect of this idea. Now I just need a good power card maker program so I can make the rewards for my players
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
I find it sad that now that 4th is nearing it's end, they've finally gotten back around to books I want from day one.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I find it sad that now that 4th is nearing it's end, they've finally gotten back around to books I want from day one.



Better now than never, I suppose. I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for, admittedly ;)
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
I find it sad that now that 4th is nearing it's end, they've finally gotten back around to books I want from day one.



Better now than never, I suppose. I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for, admittedly ;)



Wasn't specifically looking for a response.

I suppose what I'm saying is that Essentials materials took 4th in a direction I wasn't really interested in in the slightest, and only the last few books have really started to move back towards the material I was interested in and drawn to in the first place. 

So I suppose as you have credits on this, that's a credit to you. ;)

But things such as the Heroes of Shadow book (Which made me so sad to see how the Shadow source was being crammed into a half source) as an example, was exactly the kind of thing I never really wanted to see in 4th ed.

I find it telling that up until now I have only books of a hardcover nature that date from release up to August 2010.

But this book sounds super awesome, and I've kind of liked the previous two player books, the feywild one and elemental chaos one.  Not tons, but more it continued to get more like what I was interested in seeing in a game.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Yeah, I wish I could give you more insight. I hope you like this book, it should be right up your alley. I see it also holding weight across the spectrum... meaning, useful tips for exploration and dungeoneering that might apply to other games as well. It was a ton of fun to work on.
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.

It has that what-the-heck last-gasp sort of feel to it.  On the one hand, it's continuing the trend of HotFW and HoTEC, in that bits of it have their act together and are reasonably good design.  OTOH, they're throwing back in foolishness like Scrolls of Power, just because (it's nostalgic, and how much harm can it do, given that the edition will be dead soon?) and wasting space with what amount to multi-page advertisments for old modules.

Still worth picking up for the good bits, though.

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

and wasting space with what amount to multi-page advertisments for old modules.

Still worth picking up for the good bits, though.




Ouch. Twisting the knife. I'm sorry you don't like some of my work. I hope others will find value where you found nothing.
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

Follow me on Twitter!
Don't take it personally, you're just writing at the bitter-sweet closing end of an edition.  No reflection on your talent, just on what your bosses chose to use it on.

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.

It has that what-the-heck last-gasp sort of feel to it.  On the one hand, it's continuing the trend of HotFW and HoTEC, in that bits of it have their act together and are reasonably good design.  OTOH, they're throwing back in foolishness like Scrolls of Power, just because (it's nostalgic, and how much harm can it do, given that the edition will be dead soon?) and wasting space with what amount to multi-page advertisments for old modules.

Still worth picking up for the good bits, though.



So, what's the problem with Scrolls of Power if they are Special Rewards that are totally within the purview of the DM to distribute or not distribute as he sees fit? 

http://thecordsthatbind.wordpress.com/ "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handy

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Wish.  Ugh.  These had better be Rare items, so that people can avoid them like the plague they are.  Power Word Kill, ditto.  Hey, look, I can see the big bad.  He dies.  Story over.

This book is really turning me in circles.  I've really liked some bits of the previes, and absolutely detested othersl  Like this one.

It has that what-the-heck last-gasp sort of feel to it.  On the one hand, it's continuing the trend of HotFW and HoTEC, in that bits of it have their act together and are reasonably good design.  OTOH, they're throwing back in foolishness like Scrolls of Power, just because (it's nostalgic, and how much harm can it do, given that the edition will be dead soon?) and wasting space with what amount to multi-page advertisments for old modules.

Still worth picking up for the good bits, though.



So, what's the problem with Scrolls of Power if they are Special Rewards that are totally within the purview of the DM to distribute or not distribute as he sees fit? 




Most likely the assumption that DMs have any idea how to hand this kind of thing out and control it in the first place.  There is a fair amount of cynicism (and not a small amount coming from me) that DMs couldn't find their butt with two hands and a flashlight in a sunny day in August; i.e. the assumption that the number of good, solid DMs out there are vastly outnumbered by those who will throw these kinds of things into their games will-he-nil-he and then complain that their game is unbalanced.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]


Most likely the assumption that DMs have any idea how to hand this kind of thing out and control it in the first place.  There is a fair amount of cynicism (and not a small amount coming from me) that DMs couldn't find their butt with two hands and a flashlight in a sunny day in August; i.e. the assumption that the number of good, solid DMs out there are vastly outnumbered by those who will throw these kinds of things into their games will-he-nil-he and then complain that their game is unbalanced.



This isn't cynicism, this is common freakin' sense.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
My problem with (some of) the Scrolls of Power is that they don't have mechanics in any meaningful sense. They're effectively just plot coupons. A DM who actually has any sense is only going to give out a Power Word Kill scroll when the PCs are going up against a BBEG they can't deal with any other way. Likewise, a Wish scroll's true purpose is not to let the PCs actually gain a wish, but to give an excuse for the geas part to kick in and launch them on another adventure. The thing is, though, that any DM who can competently run these sorts of plot coupon items is already quite capable of coming up with the extremely minimal amount of 'rules' they require to operate and doesn't actually need this book in order to use them. All putting 'official' rules for them in a book is going to do is make (some) players think they're somehow entitled to have access to them and mislead less competent/experienced DMs into using them without necessarily thinking through the consequences.

FWIW, I think the Mass Heal one is fine (I've actually given my players access to an almost identical item in the past - so why do I need this book again?). Power Word Kill is potentially campaign-destroying, but so obviously so that any DM that allows it has only him/herself to blame. The Wish one is something I would never allow as written. A permanent +4 increase to an ability score for a single PC is so balance-breaking that I'm just mystified that it made it into print.
"There's an old saying that all it takes for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing. I've always had a problem with that. If you do nothing to oppose evil, then how are you 'good'? To turn aside and allow evil to flourish is to collaborate with it. You ask for mercy. You claim you have done nothing. That 'nothing' is why you deserve no mercy." - Lorian Karthfaerr, drow paladin of Avandra Robin Laws says I'm a Storyteller:
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You're more inclined toward the role playing side of the equation and less interested in numbers or experience points. You're quick to compromise if you can help move the story forward, and get bored when the game slows down for a long planning session. You want to play out a story that moves like it's orchestrated by a skilled novelist or film director. Storyteller 92% Tactician 83% Method Actor 75% Butt-Kicker 67% Power Gamer 67% Specialist 58% Casual Gamer 8%
My problem with (some of) the Scrolls of Power is that they don't have mechanics in any meaningful sense. They're effectively just plot coupons. A DM who actually has any sense is only going to give out a Power Word Kill scroll when the PCs are going up against a BBEG they can't deal with any other way. Likewise, a Wish scroll's true purpose is not to let the PCs actually gain a wish, but to give an excuse for the geas part to kick in and launch them on another adventure. The thing is, though, that any DM who can competently run these sorts of plot coupon items is already quite capable of coming up with the extremely minimal amount of 'rules' they require to operate and doesn't actually need this book in order to use them. All putting 'official' rules for them in a book is going to do is make (some) players think they're somehow entitled to have access to them and mislead less competent/experienced DMs into using them without necessarily thinking through the consequences.

FWIW, I think the Mass Heal one is fine (I've actually given my players access to an almost identical item in the past - so why do I need this book again?). Power Word Kill is potentially campaign-destroying, but so obviously so that any DM that allows it has only him/herself to blame. The Wish one is something I would never allow as written. A permanent +4 increase to an ability score for a single PC is so balance-breaking that I'm just mystified that it made it into print.



I think the above bolded text is a "bold" assertion.  Sometimes it just takes a little push to get even the most competent DMs to think outside their usual box.  That's not to say that some of the things in this book didn't belong in something more akin to an Unearthed Arcana article, but that is sometimes the way it is.


"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]