05/03/2012 FtL: "Darts: Avacyn Restored"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

In the last deck, Alchemist's Refuge</a> is listed as a creature, while it's actually a land. Also, Soul of the Harvest is a creature, but it's listed as "other spells".
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
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For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
Just thought I'd point out that the Misthollow Griffin deck can theoretically pop off on turn 2, with a perfect hand and turn 2 draw.

T1 - Forest, BoP / Hierarch.*

T2 - Land, Food Chain
Sac mana critter, 2 mana, Wall of Blossoms*.
Sac Wall, 3 mana, Drift of Phantasms*.
Sac Drift, 4 mana, Misthollow + infinite creature mana shenanigans.

* it can work with any combination of T1 accelerant, any one- or two-drop, and any other one- to three-drop.  All that really matters is the number of critters for Food Chain to eat.

It is possible (but very unlikely) to have this happen without additional draw, as 2x land, BoP, Food Chain, 2-drop, 3-drop, Griffin, and Maga (or Soul of the Harvest, for full deck draw) are 8 cards total.
Wouldn't the primal surge deck mill itself out, because you can't choose not to exile the top card, so you would be forced to exile a card from your library that is't there?
"Exiling the top card of an empty library" is not a condition that causes you to lose the game; it's just an impossible instruction that has no effect when executed. Only effects that specifically draw a card from a library with no cards are sufficient to trip the state-based action for losing the game, and Laboratory Maniac conveniently acts on anything and everything that would do that.

(Though it would probably help to have Alchemist's Apprentice or something in the deck, so you can stop "Response to the draw triggers, Disperse the Asceticism and Dismember the Maniac" by just drawing more cards on top of all that.)
Concerning the Foodchain Griffin deck:

I ran a few games with it and made the following changes:

-1 Forest
-2 Island
-4 Wall of Blossoms
+3 Halimar Depths
+4 Coiling Oracle
+1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary

leaving me with a 61 card deck.

Aside from the really really rare turn 2 win that is disabled by the 2-coloredness of the coiling oracle I really found the deck to run smoother with the possible acceleration from the oracle and the tutoring of Momir Vig. (And i just love the halimar depths, no matter if they enter play tapped or not).

Just my 2 cents

~DocGrog
Misthollow Griffin also works with City of Shadows, Soul Exchange, Cadaverous Bloom, Commandeer, Descent into Madness, Force of Will, Forsaken City, Gemstone Caverns, Holistic Wisdom, Misdirection, Snapback, and Wormfang Behemoth.  If you include Painter's Servant, there are a few other alternate-cost cards that work, but this is unlikely to be worth the effort.

Rules question though, what if Misthollow Griffin is exiled face down?  Everything suggests that you can still cast it.


(Though it would probably help to have Alchemist's Apprentice or something in the deck, so you can stop "Response to the draw triggers, Disperse the Asceticism and Dismember the Maniac" by just drawing more cards on top of all that.)



Still figuring out how things like this work in MtG so I hope you don't mind a couple questions. How does the timing work in regards to cards put into play with Primal Surge? Once Surge goes off (isn't countered somehow), can your opponent respond to each card as Surge repeats or do they have to wait until Surge mills the whole deck to repsond? Assuming she is played via Surge, would Avacyn's "all permanants you control are indestructible" save the Maniac from that Dismember?


(Though it would probably help to have Alchemist's Apprentice or something in the deck, so you can stop "Response to the draw triggers, Disperse the Asceticism and Dismember the Maniac" by just drawing more cards on top of all that.)



Still figuring out how things like this work in MtG so I hope you don't mind a couple questions. How does the timing work in regards to cards put into play with Primal Surge? Once Surge goes off (isn't countered somehow), can your opponent respond to each card as Surge repeats or do they have to wait until Surge mills the whole deck to repsond? Assuming she is played via Surge, would Avacyn's "all permanants you control are indestructible" save the Maniac from that Dismember?



I'm not usre if anyone can respond between triggers, my gut feeling says no, but dont quote me on that. Also, the even if a permant is indestructible, if its toughness is reduced to 0 it will still be destroyed as a state based effect.


Still figuring out how things like this work in MtG so I hope you don't mind a couple questions. How does the timing work in regards to cards put into play with Primal Surge? Once Surge goes off (isn't countered somehow), can your opponent respond to each card as Surge repeats or do they have to wait until Surge mills the whole deck to repsond? Assuming she is played via Surge, would Avacyn's "all permanants you control are indestructible" save the Maniac from that Dismember?




No spells or triggers happen until the spell is completely finished resolving. The spell is not completely finished resolving until the "if you do" clause is finished and unfulfilled, then the spell goes to the graveyard and triggers  and spells can start happening.


Ah, I get it. Dismember says it "gets -5/-5" which is not the same as "damage".
And good to know the Surge can't be interrupted. I caught one in prerelease and was thinking of trying this combo for fun this weekend.

Thanks for the responses.


Your work today was fabulous NdC.  I loved all three decks, and I honestly can't pick a favorite.  Granted the Bloodbath deck was slightly less exhilirating only because I already knew about it, but it's still wacky good fun.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

(Though it would probably help to have Alchemist's Apprentice or something in the deck, so you can stop "Response to the draw triggers, Disperse the Asceticism and Dismember the Maniac" by just drawing more cards on top of all that.)


Running a second Maniac would work equally well.
blah blah metal lyrics
And then you run across the player whose response of choice is an instant-speed cantrip into a miraculous Devastation Tide, and you're right back where you started.
My preferred Primal Surge deck would use Urabrask the Hidden and Craterhoof Behemoth to win with a massive attack on the turn they all come out. There are even better ways to grant haste to all your army outside Standard, but Urabrask should be more than enough. A quick version, based closely on NdC's:

I don't have the time right now to do the math on how much damage that attack would be for, but I think it would be a lot.

The Elixir keeps you from dying right away if they manage to delay you for one turn, because chances are there's something in your graveyard by the time you cast Primal Surge. As for Devastation Tide or whatever, sure, the combo can be interrupted, but which ones can't? There are damn few comboes that are truly, completely unanswerable.
I've done the math. The creatures have a total power of 75 on their own, completely unenhanced. If you manage to cast Primal Surge and attack with everything, that's 29 creatures. You have four Craterhoof Behemoths, and each gives a total power bonus equal to the number of creatures you have, squared. 29 squared is 841, times 4 is 3364. Also, the Caged Suns should be set to green, so that's +4/+4 to the Birds, Behemoths, and Slimes. 4 for each of 12 creatures is 48. Also, the Myr Galvanizers give +3/+3 to the mana Myr and +2/+2 to each other. 3 times 8 plus 2 times 3 is 30. 75 + 3364 + 48 + 30 is a total of 3517 damage. All of which tramples, some of which also flies. 3517 damage.

That's the best-cast scenario possible, of course, and unlikely. Chances are you'll have cast any fatties you've drawn and used a Rune-Scarred Demon to tutor for the sorcery, so your opponent will have had a chance to kill several big creatures. And your opponent will probably have killed some of the mana dorks, whether with targeted removal or by forcing you to chump-block, and they can't attack if you tapped them for mana to cast the the sorcery. And calculating the damage from creatures is pointless anyway because two mana Myr, two Myr Galvanizers and the Hellkite just go infinite. And if your opponent Dismembers Urabrask, you won't have the Behemoths' ETB trigger next turn. And of course, one Mana Leak counters the Surge.

But still, even a quarter of the theoretical maximum would be enough to wipe out everyone at once in most multiplayer games, and would be completely insane in Standard. And the thing is, this deck could be much better. With four Caged Suns, you probably don't need quite this many Myr. With all this ramp, you might as well throw in a few more fatties. One Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite would be great here. Mikeaus, the Unhallowed is good insurance. Wow.