effective binder/paladin hybrid...am i dreaming?

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
so fey binder/paladin hybrid. you spam fascinating shadows. white lotus riposte and this power make the targets you pull adjacent take damage if they attack me. if they dont attack you they take divine sanction damage (well at least one creature does, but i can get more than one marked for about half the combat with a utility). they cant hit you bc you have hybrid talent pally armor. at level 12 its like 11+ xtra damage whether they attack me or dont attack me. if i like i can always make it rattling but doesnt really matter my armor is so stout. meanwhile i have all sorts of immediate action powers, based on whether they attack me or my allies, including an encounter that dominates.

Fascinating Shadows

You create a dizzying array of images out of the shadows, lulling your enemies into drawing closer.


At-Will        Arcane, Implement, Psychic, Shadow
Standard Action      Close blast 5


Target: One or two creatures in the blast


Attack: Charisma vs. Will


Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and you pull the target up to 2 squares. The first time the target attacks you before the end of your next turn, it takes psychic damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.


its not going to win awards but am i dreaming that a binder can be somewhat effective?

The sorcerer does this much better with ensorcelled blade.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
ok. but does this still mean the binder can be worth something somehow? someway? you do get to attack two targets from range as opposed to one melee target...
The sorcerer does this much better with ensorcelled blade.



You won't have a spell source if you'r Hybrid, so the damage on being attacked doesn't happen, and you want HT for Pally armor.

But you can White Lotus Riposte for cha-mod damage with EB.

I've been working on a Warlock | Palladin or Cavalier build of a similar fashion likely using White Lotus Ripsote but possibly using Hellish Rebuke.
ok. but does this still mean the binder can be worth something somehow? someway? you do get to attack two targets from range as opposed to one melee target...



Hybrid Binder can be very valuable. If you're a striker, hybrid star pact binder gives you a free invisibility every time you kill something...
interesting, thanks for the feedback

im trying to pick up some stance type powers that do auto damage to creatures for starting next to me, but it is tough to get this to be able to multiclass fighter and still boost int. any other classes w auto damage stances come to mind?
Ring of Circling Fangs might be a good addition.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Wrathful Warrior only requires 13 CON, which isn't a horrible investment for a defender-type anyway.
Wrathful Warrior only requires 13 CON, which isn't a horrible investment for a defender-type anyway.



yes, i will likely do that to get a daily stance power. im also thinking the gladiator theme would work simply to get this bad boy once a day

Show
Bloody Blades

You whip your weapons around you to keep your enemies from blocking your progress to a swift victory.


Daily        Martial, Stance, Weapon
Standard Action      Close burst 1


Effect: Before the attack, you move your speed. Each enemy that makes an opportunity attack against you during this movement takes damage equal to your primary ability modifier and is pushed 1 square after its attack.


Target: Each enemy you can see in the burst


Attack: Primary ability vs. AC


Hit: 2[W] + ability modifier damage.


Effect: You can assume the stance of the bloody blades. Until the stance ends, as a free action you can deal damage equal to your primary ability modifier to any enemy that starts its turn adjacent to you. Any enemy you deal damage to cannot shift until the end of your next turn.



but then i thought the fircrafter theme aura could maybe work

still trying to make the pieces work
Binder paladin is an excellent build for an invisible defender. You also turn invisible when an adjacent enemy is reduced to zero by any means.

Here is a build I posted using Cavalier Binder hybrid
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
heres what im looking at for a level 12 one shot

basically, i spam fascinating shadows, if i hit i pull 2 targets adjacent, its 9 damage if you attack me (15 when my firecrafter aura is on), and 8 if you attack my allies. if i dont have you marked and you attack me i also get an ir (riposte). one of my irs if you attack me dominates you (touch of command)-thats an encounter, one of my interrupts goes off if you attack my ally (ray of reprisal).

its not a record breaker but it works, and has some other fun stuff

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
binder paladin 12, level 12
Human, Paladin/Warlock (Binder), Academy Master
Pact: Fey Pact (Binder)
Hybrid Paladin Option: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Hybrid Warlock (Binder) Option: Hybrid Binder Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Firecrafter
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 16, WIS 11, CHA 22
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 11, DEX 9, INT 15, WIS 10, CHA 17
 
 
AC: 31 Fort: 24 Ref: 29 Will: 28
HP: 90 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 22
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +17, Diplomacy +17, Intimidate +17, Streetwise +17
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Athletics +3, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +4, Heal +6, History +9, Insight +6, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +9, Stealth +2, Thievery +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Firecrafter Attack: Blazing Corona
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Warlock Utility: Cloud Sight
Warlock Attack: Fascinating Shadows
Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Paladin Attack 1: Valorous Smite
Paladin Attack 1: Frost of Letherna
Human Utility 2: Extra Effort
Warlock Attack 3: Eldritch Rain
Warlock Attack 5: Roaring Storm of Cania
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 7: Touch of Command
Paladin Attack 9: Ray of Reprisal
Paladin Utility 10: Cleansing Spirit
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
 
FEATS
Level 1: Arcane Initiate
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 4: Implement Focus (Staff)
Level 6: Improved Defenses
Level 8: Improved Initiative
Level 10: Staff Expertise
Level 11: White Lotus Riposte
Level 12: White Lotus Master Riposte
 
ITEMS
Heavy Shield x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Acrobat Boots x1
Accurate staff of Ruin +3 x1
Amulet of Resolution +3 x1
Magic Gith Plate Armor +3 x1
Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier)
Belt of Lucky Strikes x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Power Jewel
Counterstrike Guards (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======
Try hybrid Binder|Blackguard .. it's delicious! 
Are you going to be primarily ranged? If so, you are going to lose your binder invisibility exploit. Also, at paragon, you are going to find yourself immobilized more often, endangering your divine sanction. Too many commas,,,,I know.

For melee optimization, I would relace staff expertise with rod expertise (+1 ac and +1 dex).

I would also take flail expertise and pick up an Alhulak for a +4 to hit instead of superior implement.

Finally, versatile expertise for your rod and flail instead of implement focus.
Are you going to be primarily ranged? If so, you are going to lose your binder invisibility exploit. Also, at paragon, you are going to find yourself immobilized more often, endangering your divine sanction. Too many commas,,,,I know. For melee optimization, I would relace staff expertise with rod expertise (+1 ac and +1 dex). I would also take flail expertise and pick up an Alhulak for a +4 to hit instead of superior implement. Finally, versatile expertise for your rod and flail instead of implement focus.



Versatile Expertise will do nothing if they already have rod expertise and flail expertise.  Currently, there is no feat to give "weapon and implement" focus for two items, like versatile expertise gives expertise for two.

Staff Expertise is good for melee since it means the PC can stay in melee and still use their ranged and area attacks without provoking OAs.  Also, with a staff, they get an additional square of reach for their melee attacks.  The question is: do Binders get staff implement proficiency?  I don't remember if they do or not.  If not, then it's a moot point since their implement attacks won't use a staff anyway.   
Are you going to be primarily ranged? If so, you are going to lose your binder invisibility exploit. Also, at paragon, you are going to find yourself immobilized more often, endangering your divine sanction. Too many commas,,,,I know. For melee optimization, I would relace staff expertise with rod expertise (+1 ac and +1 dex). I would also take flail expertise and pick up an Alhulak for a +4 to hit instead of superior implement. Finally, versatile expertise for your rod and flail instead of implement focus.



i dont mind using the -5 to attack me pact boon; after all, i have to in order to get the at will the whole build is based on. its not optimized for melee at all save giving myself an attack i can use for oas. rod expertise does me no good bc i want to use the heavy shield and the bonuses dont stack. at level 13 the only weapon attack it has is the mba. immobilized always sucks but at least i have some ranged attacks; but note that i can save as a minor each encounter so if its save ends i can likely get out of it. at a higher level i could afford the boots where you get an auto save against immobilized and restrained if it continued to be an issue. if i was making this for epic i would make some changes though
The question is: do Binders get staff implement proficiency?  I don't remember if they do or not.  If not, then it's a moot point since their implement attacks won't use a staff anyway.   



they dont, it sucks, i multiclassed wizard

The question is: do Binders get staff implement proficiency?  I don't remember if they do or not.  If not, then it's a moot point since their implement attacks won't use a staff anyway.   



they dont, it sucks, i multiclassed wizard




Actually, take White Lotus Duelist Expertise.  It gives +1/+2/+3 feat bonues to arcane attacks and basic attacks.  Also, it lets you pick one of rod, wand, staff or orb for implement proficiency.
The question is: do Binders get staff implement proficiency?  I don't remember if they do or not.  If not, then it's a moot point since their implement attacks won't use a staff anyway.   



they dont, it sucks, i multiclassed wizard




Actually, take White Lotus Duelist Expertise.  It gives +1/+2/+3 feat bonues to arcane attacks and basic attacks.  Also, it lets you pick one of rod, wand, staff or orb for implement proficiency.



but my paladin stuff isnt arcane
The question is: do Binders get staff implement proficiency?  I don't remember if they do or not.  If not, then it's a moot point since their implement attacks won't use a staff anyway.   



they dont, it sucks, i multiclassed wizard




Actually, take White Lotus Duelist Expertise.  It gives +1/+2/+3 feat bonues to arcane attacks and basic attacks.  Also, it lets you pick one of rod, wand, staff or orb for implement proficiency.



but my paladin stuff isnt arcane



Yeah, I thought about that after I posted.  Not sure what else you could do. 
Be an Eladrin and get the Sun Elf bonuses.
The sorcerer does this much better with ensorcelled blade.



You won't have a spell source if you'r Hybrid, so the damage on being attacked doesn't happen, and you want HT for Pally armor.

But you can White Lotus Riposte for cha-mod damage with EB.

I've been working on a Warlock | Palladin or Cavalier build of a similar fashion likely using White Lotus Ripsote but possibly using Hellish Rebuke.



Oddly if I recall correctly the wording on the power says that spellsource determines damage type not that damage is done.  Since you lack spell source that means the damage would lack a type and oddly that is a valid way to deal damage.
Be an Eladrin and get the Sun Elf bonuses.



thats not a bad idea to get the implement proficiency but its a wash with the xtra human feat and id rather have heroic effort