Helvault: Thoughts? Feelings?

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I was really dissapointed with the quality of the items in the Helvault for all the hype it had. 

Oversized, non-foil, non-alternate artwork commander/EDH cards?  They aren't usable in any other format, so why couldn't we get cool commanders?  Even in commander, they are creating awkward situations if someone Spell Crumple's them.  I didnt mind the token card, I understand the need for filler and I really hope that all token cards become the 2-sided versions.  It would really cut down on the real life space for  token cards.  And the D20 was ok, it was something usable.

As for the Miracle cards? The power level of them seems too rediculous for some, and not high enough for others. Or the mana cost is wrong.  Last night at the prerelease, I had the opponent at 1 life, and he top-decked the miracle card which created an army of angels.  Cool for him, right? Fun game, right? I mean, the need for bombs is there, but the power level of that card for draft is too high if not enough answers are available, correct?

There was an abundance of cards that seemed overly limited in their relevance.   Such as the 1/2 "protection from vampires" guy in white.  There is not a significant amount of vampires in this set, so why is this here?  Was it just a "remanant from the last set's flavor?"  It seemed as if the sets would have played MUCH better together, rather than being a standalone set.
Really?  I loved the inside of the Hetavault.  I wasn't able to trade for a Gisela, but I got an oversized one, so I'm all set for a while for my Commander build.  My friend gave me his oversized Sigarda (who I happend to pull).

I was glad to get another die for my die bag too, and I really liked the tokens.

I thought the whole thing was a blast, and would like to thank Wizards for continuing to provide these types of things to the players.
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I got a giant Bubbles; maybe she could fly as a Commander if my playgroup is fine with that.  Other than that, I love double-sided tokens (I'm a token fiend), and I've always wanted a spindown counter (I'm usually too cheap to buy Fat Packs).  So it's a success for me, but I can fully see why it would be a letdown for other people.
Given the variety of things said to have been found in the various Helvaults, I think to avoid pissing a lot of people off, which WotC did [unintentionally or not] they should have put some of the really good foils, cards, some of the better-than-meh-but-not-really-special cards, etc, AND some of the oversized cards, tokens, dice meh in every one, and that should have been it **UNIFORMLY** - that way there is an even mix of meh and good for everyone, and this whole "select stores get amazing things while most do not" that is pissing off so many people would have never happened.
I just got back into the game after a fairly long hiatus (no sanctioned events between Darksteel prerelease and Dark Ascension prerelease). Compared to Dark Ascension (which I will assume is fairly average/typical for a prerelease), what's to complain about? You still get the normal prerelease prizes and as a bonus there are achievements, which are either fun or easily ignored if you're not into that. And then you get some other fun extras with the tokens and oversized cards. 

Personally I had more fun at the prerelease with the Helvault 'mini-game' than I did at the Dark Ascension one (in terms of enjoying the event independent of my competitive success). 
"what's to complain about? ? You still get the normal prerelease prizes and as a bonus there are achievements, which are either fun or easily ignored if you're not into that. And then you get some other fun extras with the tokens and oversized cards. "

Not to come off as a jerk, not AT ALL my intention, if you ask "what's to complain about?" I politely suggest Googling, as it is very apparent WotC did not make the Helvaults uniform in any sense of the term TO THE POINT where **some** but VERY FEW get several of a 100+ dollar card and other things people would kill for, while most of us got oversized cards, dice, and tokens.

I like the oversized card - being EDH legal I can finally make a Co/R/W [or R/Co, or W/Co, or R/W, or W, or R] EDH deck and use it as my general, I just feel consistency would have made things better overall.

And IIRC my store didn't give us the a promo card - and figured that because it was a helvault event that it would take the place of giving them out.  
What are the numbers on those Judge foil Demonic Tutors? My LGS got non-foil Commanders, the dice, and that angel/demon token.
If the official previews for the Helvault event stated that "Only 5% of Helvaults will have TOTALLY AWESOME **** OMGWTFBBQ, while the rest have meh stuff. Good luck finding the worthwhile vaults lolololololol," I'd be fine with that.

But everyone went to a Helvault event expecting to get something wicked awesome out of it.  A select few did, while the rest of us got mere trinkets.
I wasn't expecting much from the Helvault, and even though I had low expectations, I was still disappointed by how sucky it turned out to be.
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If the official previews for the Helvault event stated that "Only 5% of Helvaults will have TOTALLY AWESOME **** OMGWTFBBQ, while the rest have meh stuff. Good luck finding the worthwhile vaults lolololololol," I'd be fine with that.

But everyone went to a Helvault event expecting to get something wicked awesome out of it.  A select few did, while the rest of us got mere trinkets.



THIS Exactly.
Some Helvaults had 54 copies of foil promos ranging from Judge Balance, Judge Demonic Tutor, Judge Decree of Justice, Exalted Angel and Wrath of God.

In these Helvaults, the oversized cards and the tokens were foil.

So...yeah.


It makes sense.  They put out a larger number of regular Helvaults because they knew some would be cracked.  They changed up the super secret cards because they didn't want uniformity and they'd rather surprise some people over no people.

Works for me.  It cost the same as any other prerelease event and if it didn't, you need to contact WotC about your LGS.

It's like complaining that some people got Power 9 and Duals from Zendikar boosters.

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Out of curiosity, what are those oversized cards found inside the helvault (I already know about the tokens and dice)? I keep hearing the legends found in Avacyn Restored but are there more of them?
I'm completely bored, can't you tell?
I am exceedingly skeptical of claims of these "Special Helvaults". This is the Internet, things like that can be faked by people with an afternoon to kill, and only for the reason of "watch these magic players go ape trolololo!". The usual cry of "pics or it didn't happen" aren't going to work for me, because of the fakery which can be done. I can, and yes would, believe a bunch of players who had these cards decided to put one over on the Internet after a case of beer / bottle of booze and decided to see if they could kick gamers into a frothing mass over this.

We're predictable that way.

Yes, I'm rather jaded when it comes to these things. Unless I was there, *IN PERSON* to witness it being opened and these $100+ cards spilling out like candy from a pinata . . . I have a nice big hunk of skepticism waiting to call bullcrap on it. Even if I was there in person, I'd still probably think something was up. If Wizards says "sure we did that", then I'll sit down, shut up, and drink my tea. Overall it was a fun event from me as I pulled Temporal Mastery, Avacyn, and two rares I wanted for other decks. And the promo foil is something I sure as heck am going to have fun with (as I pulled one to use in the game and got a taste of "omg angels!" for a few matches . . . it was hilarious).
Out of curiosity, what are those oversized cards found inside the helvault (I already know about the tokens and dice)? I keep hearing the legends found in Avacyn Restored but are there more of them?



They were the trio of angels (known to some as "the Powerpuff girls"), Avacyn, and the demon. I traded my large Avacyn for a large Sigura because I wanted her for a potential Commander deck.

My only complaint is i wanted a 2nd double sided token for my collection (hard to show off in my pro-binder when theres black mesh between each side of the page LOL) 

other then that i had a fun time i managed to get Gisela commander card and another player gave me his Griselbrand which i was originally hoping to get (demons are cool \m/ (^_^) \m/ )
 
what would have been awesome would be an alt-art helvault promo with the helvault broken and the demons/avacyn being released
 
For me, the biggest problem with the Helvault was that it wasn't anything...good. I mean, this is what's supposed to replace the Magic Player Awards. That was a program that got me out to so many tournaments I was qualifying for the highest amount of promos that I could get. Once they cut it, my tournament play swiftly declined to now where I only go out for Pre-releases and FNMs.

Now I'm not sure if I want to even go to pre-releases. It really sucks to know that I could have gone to the Advanced WPN store and gotten some sweet judge promos.
Well, I prefer collectibles to cash (although I'd have both if I have the chance), so the Helvault doesn't seem so bad to me. But the stuff inside isn't worth a lot, yeah.

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As much as I was dissappointed with the contents of the vault, the prerelease was fun and I still have to say I walked away a winner. 

I took home the actual Hellvault, and it's now my deckbox. 
I normally try to hit multiple pre-releases, but the sheer dissappointment with Wizard's marketing of the Helvault really turned me off, and made me want to get away from MTG for a little while. Won't last long I am sure, but it was a real turn off with the way they handled this event. Not a good experience at all.
Out of curiosity, what are those oversized cards found inside the helvault (I already know about the tokens and dice)? I keep hearing the legends found in Avacyn Restored but are there more of them?



They were the trio of angels (known to some as "the Powerpuff girls"), Avacyn, and the demon. I traded my large Avacyn for a large Sigura because I wanted her for a potential Commander deck.




Thanks!
I'm completely bored, can't you tell?
I was dissapointed as well with the Helvault. The first event I did it was ok. Got some different looking tokens and a spindown. The oversized cards was no big deal. But getting the same thing from a different Helvault at the same store for a different event was very dissapointing.
Kereminde, the fact that these cards existed in helvaults is actually now fairly well known, let me try looking up some Google stuff for you that may help ease the skepticism. 



It's like complaining that some people got Power 9 and Duals from Zendikar boosters.



No, it **really** is not - in my opinion of course.

In Zendikar, we KNEW there would be old cards as bonuses, AND we knew they were not in every pack, with really good ones being even more rare, and we KNEW not everybody had a chance, but unlike this, the chance was CONSISTENT [as in every booster box having the same odds] - and WELL ANNOUNCED.  It wasn't like only 5% of the boxes had an old card in them [and even fewer having a power 9], and that wasn't made clear, which is more analogous to the Helvault situation again IMO.

At first I was happy about the Helvault because I don't like to complain about free stuff. However, I hate seeing that a select few stores got Judge promo cards in addition to everything else. I just don't understand why this happened. Why should some stores get better prizes than others? Why the favoritism for certain stores? 

All this pre-release has done is make me lose faith in the pre-release prizes. I didn't care much for the $1 or so worth of product that I received from the vault, but knowing that some people received cards that are actually playable in a sanctioned event just makes me feel shafted. No ihss, you don't get usable cards, only the lucky people do. 


Note: I'm not complaining simply because I didn't get one of the promos. I'm complaining because even if I had gotten one, a majority of the players wouldn't have. I'd rather have no pre-release bonuses than unequal bonuses.
I am exceedingly skeptical of claims of these "Special Helvaults".



Yeah, it's not like the oversized cards and the tokens were foiled in these vaults.  I mean, how easy would that be to check

;) 
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Some Helvaults had 54 copies of foil promos ranging from Judge Balance, Judge Demonic Tutor, Judge Decree of Justice, Exalted Angel and Wrath of God.

In these Helvaults, the oversized cards and the tokens were foil.

So...yeah.



Honestly, this just makes it worse.  So the winner of one event gets some random tokens and the 54th placing person at one across town gets a judge foil of a vintage card? 


It's like complaining that some people got Power 9 and Duals from Zendikar boosters.



It really isnt...

Everyone had a chance to get those Zendikar hidden treasures.  You can buy boosters anywhere, you can order them online, etc.  This event was entirely dependent on what store you went to.  If you dont live near one of the stores that got one of the ridiculous helvaults sent to them, you were just out of luck.

I dont see how they are at all comparable.


It makes sense.  They put out a larger number of regular Helvaults because they knew some would be cracked.  They changed up the super secret cards because they didn't want uniformity and they'd rather surprise some people over no people.



Why not just put something half decent in every helvault instead of sending super huge $$$$$ helvaults out to certain select stores and leaving everyone else with garbage?

The only people who like this kind of surprise are the ones that get selected to recieve it.  So a small fraction of their customers are really happy now.  That sounds like a bad idea from a business perspective.

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Guys the people who didn't get judge promos didn't pay for them.  Those who did didn't pay either, but we shouldn't hold it agains them.
Guys the people who didn't get judge promos didn't pay for them.  Those who did didn't pay either, but we shouldn't hold it agains them.



Wait, what?

I don't get what you're trying to say.

Guys the people who didn't get judge promos didn't pay for them.  Those who did didn't pay either, but we shouldn't hold it agains them.



Totally... I mean, if WOTC started reprinting P9, but only handing them out to friends and family of WOTC employees... that would be totally ok.  I mean, they didnt pay for them, and we didnt pay for them either...

Of course we shouldnt hold it against the people who got the judge promos, they just went to the right store.  We should hold it against WOTC.

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Comments or suggestions are always welcome

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Guys the people who didn't get judge promos didn't pay for them.  Those who did didn't pay either, but we shouldn't hold it agains them.



I don't think anyone is angry at the people that actually got the promos, just at WotC for allowing this kind of distribution to occur.
Guys the people who didn't get judge promos didn't pay for them.  Those who did didn't pay either, but we shouldn't hold it agains them.



This makes no sense.

First off, the anger, outrage, shock, etc is not aimed AT THE PEOPLE who GOT the cards, that should be excessively clear to anyone, second, we all more or less paid for the same thing - a helvault, some more than others.... how much we did or didn't pay didn't change the rarity of the good stuff being unlocked, and how very few got that versus the rest of us who got a bunch of tokens, oversized cards, etc. 

The only people who like this kind of surprise are the ones that get selected to recieve it.  So a small fraction of their customers are really happy now.  That sounds like a bad idea from a business perspective.



I didn't receive a better Vault than usual and yet I like this surprise.

It was done perfectly.

By releasing a majority of Vaults that were the standard and some that were special, it was unlikely the internet would spoil the special Vaults ahead of time.

Even when a Vault was broken open and the contents were spoiled, some people were still surprised.  That is a win.
 
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I am now extremely bummed that the ones that got opened weren't the ones full of judge foils.
The backlash would be hysterical.

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The only people who like this kind of surprise are the ones that get selected to recieve it.  So a small fraction of their customers are really happy now.  That sounds like a bad idea from a business perspective.



I didn't receive a better Vault than usual and yet I like this surprise.

It was done perfectly.

By releasing a majority of Vaults that were the standard and some that were special, it was unlikely the internet would spoil the special Vaults ahead of time.

Even when a Vault was broken open and the contents were spoiled, some people were still surprised.  That is a win.
 



But does the win outweigh the lose from the fact that so disproportionately few got special things in their helvault, and WotC doing the Helvault his way instead of having a consistent assortment of awesome/good/ok prizes for everyone [with specifics in those categories being random] with each helvault?

IMO I would hardly call THE WHOLE THING a perfect execution just because the vault content for the secret helvaults was not spoiled, as there are more variables to it than that.
Even when a Vault was broken open and the contents were spoiled, some people were still surprised.  That is a win.



Except it is only a win for 5% (even less probably) of the playerbase. For the rest, it is either the same (if they didn't know or don't care) or much, much worse (if they feel the distribution of goodies is wrong)


I think that this was a bad promotion overall.
I really don't see why they made some helvault superspecial and some bland. There is such a huge difference in the contents, it's plain stupid. You either get extremely lucky (well, if you go to an Advanced Store) or it's just bland.

Why not give everyone a foil Demonic Taskmaster or Emancipation Angel? They are playable and would give everyone something valued. The judge foils would also not drop a lot in prices (I can see people getting angry at that as well).

I am really mindboggled that someone would think up a promotion like this. The helvault itself was a supercool idea. And we really need to have more like that in the future.
But either don't differ the content or give out something random and equal value (and playable!) to everyone. It doesn't even need to be super big. Like 1/4 get foil tokens, 1/4 get foil oversized, 1/4 get foil uncommon and 1/4 another foil uncommon. The prices then would not be so far apart, and there would still be some excitement as to what people get.




The only people who like this kind of surprise are the ones that get selected to recieve it.  So a small fraction of their customers are really happy now.  That sounds like a bad idea from a business perspective.



I didn't receive a better Vault than usual and yet I like this surprise.

It was done perfectly.

By releasing a majority of Vaults that were the standard and some that were special, it was unlikely the internet would spoil the special Vaults ahead of time.

Even when a Vault was broken open and the contents were spoiled, some people were still surprised.  That is a win.
 



You dont count, you've clearly been possessed by Tibalt.  Jokes aside though, your own opinion is just anecdotal.

I feel pretty comfortable saying that statistically, the majority of people dont gain personal pleasure from being excluded from an opportunity based on arbitrary factors like their location.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment



I really don't see why they made some helvault superspecial and some bland.



IMO, "some superspecial, most bland" is more accurate - and only certain stores being able to have a chance at getting those special Helvaults makes this even more irritating, IMO.

The only people who like this kind of surprise are the ones that get selected to recieve it.  So a small fraction of their customers are really happy now.  That sounds like a bad idea from a business perspective.



I didn't receive a better Vault than usual and yet I like this surprise.

It was done perfectly.

By releasing a majority of Vaults that were the standard and some that were special, it was unlikely the internet would spoil the special Vaults ahead of time.

Even when a Vault was broken open and the contents were spoiled, some people were still surprised.  That is a win.
 


I don't think WotC should be designing prizes that get around the problem of people spoiling them. Especially when there is a very real chance that the entire effort would've been made in vain. 

If one of the special Helvaults were spoiled, this pre-release would've been a much larger fiasco. It is only through luck that it wasn't spoiled first. Is it really in WotC's best interests to design prizes that circumvent one problem and create a larger one?
I am exceedingly skeptical of claims of these "Special Helvaults".



Yeah, it's not like the oversized cards and the tokens were foiled in these vaults.  I mean, how easy would that be to check

;) 



That's easy enough for me to believe. That there were some where the promo cards were all foil-stamped.

It is REALLY hard for me to believe Judge cards were in it, and I still honestly believe it could be attributed to some players with a lot of expensive cards trolling the Internet. I'll shut up about it now; short of Wizards themselves admitting they did that . . . even if my brother came up and showed them to me and said "Look what was in MY Helvault", I'd still ask "Are you sure you didn't pull a Temporal Mastery and trade it?".

Final words? I pulled some good cards from my packs, some weak cards, got my head stomped in as usual, and paid $30 for the priveledge. It wasn't a bad prerelease, in my opinion. (It far exceeded the Urza's Destiny one I tried, wherein I was stomped much harder and there wasn't anything special to distract me from that fact.) I'd do it over again, but maybe not since I pulled a nice good start to a prospective Angel deck this time
Helvault was lame lame lame.  I really wish all the money they spent developing, producing, and distributing these lame promos they keep doing would be put into "normal" prize support instead.  A few years back they cut down the prize support at prereleases to what (to me, at least) feels like a really sad level.  MTGO releases cost $6 less than what my local PR costs and for the record I finished with at AVR (3-1), pay out DOUBLE the packs.  Tell me how that makes any sense.  Pay 20% less, get 100% more prizes.
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I am exceedingly skeptical of claims of these "Special Helvaults".



Yeah, it's not like the oversized cards and the tokens were foiled in these vaults.  I mean, how easy would that be to check

;) 



That's easy enough for me to believe. That there were some where the promo cards were all foil-stamped.

It is REALLY hard for me to believe Judge cards were in it, and I still honestly believe it could be attributed to some players with a lot of expensive cards trolling the Internet. I'll shut up about it now; short of Wizards themselves admitting they did that . . . even if my brother came up and showed them to me and said "Look what was in MY Helvault", I'd still ask "Are you sure you didn't pull a Temporal Mastery and trade it?".

Final words? I pulled some good cards from my packs, some weak cards, got my head stomped in as usual, and paid $30 for the priveledge. It wasn't a bad prerelease, in my opinion. (It far exceeded the Urza's Destiny one I tried, wherein I was stomped much harder and there wasn't anything special to distract me from that fact.) I'd do it over again, but maybe not since I pulled a nice good start to a prospective Angel deck this time



WotC has admitted to it on Magic's PR Manager's Twitter.
The first Helvault event worked exceedingly well in our store; everyone participated and got it cracked pretty quickly. The second one, however, felt like it took significantly longer to open, because many of the players who had been in the first event decided not to bother with the achievements the second time. Dice, oversized commanders, tokens--many of our players liked all of these things, but since the contents of both Helvaults were identical there was much less excitement the second time. Some variation would likely have improved the reaction significantly.

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