Playing Blightsteel Colossus for free

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using the affinity mechanic! I want to build a golem deck around using Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus as a win condition, using Artisan Golem to pump up Collosus for the win either next turn, or that turn for an equip on Swiftfoot Boots. i think it could be a damn good combo.

I just barely thought of this idea, but pretty much all 3 of those cards are at least 2 ofs. Probably use blue/green for deck search and control until I get combo pieces out. maybe use some green creature search like Commune with nature, or even better, Gift of the Gargantuan.



Thats what I'm thinking of running!
I am Blue/Green
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Seems like a good deck to me except for the land and the cards that add any color mana to your pool.  You only have two cards that are colored spells, and I assume by Tezzeret's Gamble you mean Tezzeret's Gambit, which also can be cast without islands.

I'd get rid of:

Alloy Myr. Not worth the 3 mana for the two cards he would be useful for.  If you want a myr here for extra mana, put in a few Palladium Myr
Manalith. Not worth the one time you might maybe use it.
Cavern of Souls. All your golems are colorless so this is really not needed.

Add:
2x Forest
2x Island
2x Crumbling Colossus It's a golem, plus if you buff him with your Golem Artisan he can be his own win conditon.
2x Coat of arms Buffs your golems, gets your Mycosynth Golem out a turn quicker.

Just some ideas.

You are Red/Blue!

If you are needing affinity you could perhaps (depending on how friendly your play group is)
go for the artifact lands

such as:
Darksteel Citadel
Ancient Den
Seat of the Synod
Vault of Whispers
Great Furnace
Tree of Tales

I am Black/Green
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Updated decklist. added in DSP because for colossus. theres nothing better than a creature who can't be killed by his own effect.
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using the affinity mechanic! I want to build a golem deck around using Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus as a win condition, using Artisan Golem to pump up Collosus for the win either next turn, or that turn for an equip on Swiftfoot Boots. i think it could be a damn good combo.

I just barely thought of this idea, but pretty much all 3 of those cards are at least 2 ofs. Probably use blue/green for deck search and control until I get combo pieces out. maybe use some green creature search like Commune with nature, or even better, Gift of the Gargantuan.



Thats what I'm thinking of running!



All that artifact land is going to cost a pretty penny.

At most, I'd just have 4 Seat of the Synod and 4 Tree of Tales and then leave the rest as regular Forest and Island.

You could add another win condition by putting a couple Broodstars.  Potentially he could be a 6/6 flyer for 2 by turn 4, who just keeps getting bigger as you play artifacts.

Darksteel Plate wont prevent Crumbling Colossus and Soultether Golem from having to be sacrificed so there's little point to having it.

You are Red/Blue!

using the affinity mechanic! I want to build a golem deck around using Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus as a win condition, using Artisan Golem to pump up Collosus for the win either next turn, or that turn for an equip on Swiftfoot Boots. i think it could be a damn good combo.

I just barely thought of this idea, but pretty much all 3 of those cards are at least 2 ofs. Probably use blue/green for deck search and control until I get combo pieces out. maybe use some green creature search like Commune with nature, or even better, Gift of the Gargantuan.



Thats what I'm thinking of running!



All that artifact land is going to cost a pretty penny.

At most, I'd just have 4 Seat of the Synod and 4 Tree of Tales and then leave the rest as regular Forest and Island.

You could add another win condition by putting a couple Broodstars.  Potentially he could be a 6/6 flyer for 2

Darksteel Plate wont prevent Crumbling Colossus and Soultether Golem from having to be sacrificed so there's little point to having it.



tought DSP would interact by causing indestructible, which means creature abilties can't destroy it? yeah, playset of Seat is about 12 bucks. Dont know bout the others, but I'd say they were exact same. 

what would you add in as alternate to DSP? I would put in 2 more CoA because that abiliy is just amazing!
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Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action. Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands; they run around $1.49 each.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.

You are Red/Blue!

Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.



put in like two Unsummons then? weird that they all cost differently. maybe because of color weight in the set though I guess.
I am Blue/Green
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Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.



put in like two Unsummons then? weird that they all cost differently. maybe because of color weight in the set though I guess.

If you want to save them but generally by the time you are playing and attacking with a [/c]Crumbling Colossus[/c] you wont want to use the mana to bring him back to your hand and then recast him next turn when you could be casting a [/c]Blightsteel Colossus[/c].

What costs differently?

You are Red/Blue!

Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.



put in like two Unsummons then? weird that they all cost differently. maybe because of color weight in the set though I guess.

If you want to save them but generally by the time you are playing and attacking with a [/c]Crumbling Colossus[/c] you wont want to use the mana to bring him back to your hand and then recast him next turn when you could be casting a [/c]Blightsteel Colossus[/c].

What costs differently?



you're forgetting that once Myco golem comes out, all of my 6-7 costs and below become pretty much free.  I can bring out Curmbly for free, and then play Blight for 5-6 mana, which I would need on the field anyways for Myco.
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using the affinity mechanic! I want to build a golem deck around using Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus as a win condition

It would be much easier to simply build around Tinker or perhaps PolyMorph and go mono - :U: .


As your deck stands, I would 100% be running the infinite combo between Palladium Myr and Myr Galvanizer. Since you are running Tezzeret's Gambit, I would also be running EverFlowing Chalice. I would also run a playset of both ThoughtCast and Fabricate.
To sum up:

- 4 SoulTether Golem
- 1 Golem Artisan
+ 1 Palladium Myr
+ 4 Myr Galvanizer

It might also be worth adding both Silver Myr (for extra ramp) and Perilous Myr (for "burn") to help ensure you get some use out of the Myr Galvanizer.

- 4 Gift Of The Gargantuan
+ 4 EverFlowing Chalice

- 2 Crumbling Colossus
- 3 Ponder
- 3 Adaptive Automaton
+ 4 Fabricate
+ 4 ThoughtCast

I would also round out your playsets of Mycosynth Golem and BlightSteel Colossus.

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using the affinity mechanic! I want to build a golem deck around using Mycosynth Golem and Blightsteel Colossus as a win condition

It would be much easier to simply build around Tinker or perhaps PolyMorph and go mono - :U: .


As your deck stands, I would 100% be running the infinite combo between Palladium Myr and Myr Galvanizer. Since you are running Tezzeret's Gambit, I would also be running EverFlowing Chalice. I would also run a playset of both ThoughtCast and Fabricate.
To sum up:

- 4 SoulTether Golem
- 1 Golem Artisan
+ 1 Palladium Myr
+ 4 Myr Galvanizer

It might also be worth adding both Silver Myr (for extra ramp) and Perilous Myr (for "burn") to help ensure you get some use out of the Myr Galvanizer.

- 4 Gift Of The Gargantuan
+ 4 EverFlowing Chalice

- 2 Crumbling Colossus
- 3 Ponder
- 3 Adaptive Automaton
+ 4 Fabricate
+ 4 ThoughtCast

I would also round out your playsets of Mycosynth Golem and BlightSteel Colossus.



you just destroyed the deck by taking out my only small golem, who was good enough on his own to last me a few turns as long as I kept my artis in play, took out my alternate win con vs a control deck, ripped out ponder, whcih allows me to control my draw to get the cards I need early on, took out adaptive automaton, one of my most valuable cards in the deck because he boosts my golem cretures to make them even more powerful, gave me too much mana pull through chalice, and disorganized the deck by adding in random burn, rather than flowing with the empowered trample theme.

what were you trying to acheive?

the only really good card for the deck you named was Fabricate, and only because it can pull out all of my win con easily. I'd lose my Gift for it, as it's same cost for nearly better results (more limited, farther reach.)
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you just destroyed the deck by taking out my only small golem, who was good enough on his own to last me a few turns as long as I kept my artis in play

How is SoulTether Golem that good?
I also suggested a handful of Myr if you were worried about the early game.

took out my alternate win con vs a control deck

What is your alternate win vs a control deck?

ripped out ponder, whcih allows me to control my draw to get the cards I need early on

Fabricate fetches the card you need specifically and ThoughtCast should reliably have a cost reduction (and it draws more than Ponder ). I would rather run those two over Ponder.
You may want to consider running Halimar Depths.

took out adaptive automaton, one of my most valuable cards in the deck because he boosts my golem cretures to make them even more powerful

I feel that you need to focus 100% on summoning + playing both BlightSteel Colossus and Mycosynth Golem and not muddling around with playing creatures in the early game and trying to win a damage race.
 
gave me too much mana pull through chalice,

You want mana. How are you going to cast a BlightSteel Colossus (without a Mycosynth Golem on the field) without plenty of mana?

and disorganized the deck by adding in random burn, rather than flowing with the empowered trample theme.

You mean the Myr?


I stand by all my suggestions.

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you just destroyed the deck by taking out my only small golem, who was good enough on his own to last me a few turns as long as I kept my artis in play

How is SoulTether Golem that good?
I also suggested a handful of Myr if you were worried about the early game.

took out my alternate win con vs a control deck

What is your alternate win vs a control deck?

ripped out ponder, whcih allows me to control my draw to get the cards I need early on

Fabricate fetches the card you need specifically and ThoughtCast should reliably have a cost reduction (and it draws more than Ponder ). I would rather run those two over Ponder.
You may want to consider running Halimar Depths.

took out adaptive automaton, one of my most valuable cards in the deck because he boosts my golem cretures to make them even more powerful

I feel that you need to focus 100% on summoning + playing both BlightSteel Colossus and Mycosynth Golem and not muddling around with playing creatures in the early game and trying to win a damage race.
 
gave me too much mana pull through chalice,

You want mana. How are you going to cast a BlightSteel Colossus (without a Mycosynth Golem on the field) without plenty of mana?

and disorganized the deck by adding in random burn, rather than flowing with the empowered trample theme.

You mean the Myr?


I stand by all my suggestions.



He's golem centric for Coat of Arms/Adaptive Automaton, and pretty freakin' good considering he costs two, and as long as I play 1 creature a turn he stays alive until killed by regular means.

My alt. win con is Crumbling colossus who benefits from my Adaptive automaton and from Coat of Arms, to give him any amount of power I need.

as for ponder, your not understanding. Ponder is for the early game where I need to control EXACTLY what I draw to keep my Soultether in play, get my mana base up, draw basically what will keep me alive.

The point is not winning the damage race, but boosting all my creatures up to prevent a faster deck from Trampling all over me, if possible.

The point is that against a control deck, I'm NEVER going get out blightsteel. He'll keep me pinned all day with mana leak and such. thats what alts are for.

The whole theme is golem. that doesn't mean adding in more myrs, but keeping the off type cards to a minimum.

If I only wanted Blightsteel out, then your choices are better. But its stupid to rely on one move for your win when control is so popular right now. They'll just wait you out an Mana Leak and Unsummon you to death. Contingencies for control decks are necessary to play right now.
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I'm going to continue this conversation within the spoiler tags, as it is becoming quite lengthy and neither of us should clutter up your thread.
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I'm gonna move this point up the front because it's the whole crux of my argument with you:

The whole theme is golem. that doesn't mean adding in more myrs, but keeping the off type cards to a minimum.

I am gonna be honest with you here, your deck will improve if you abandon either the subtheme of BlightSteel Colossus or the Golem tribal. I feel that by trying to do two things, you are really limiting yourself.
This is, admittedly, due to the fact that Golems aren't a fantastically supported Tribe. This could potentially work with Elves, for instance.

He's golem centric for Coat of Arms/Adaptive Automaton, and pretty freakin' good considering he costs two, and as long as I play 1 creature a turn he stays alive until killed by regular means.

Why not simply run Guard Gomazoa or Fog Bank here? Yes, you sacrifice Tribal Synergy, but you get something even better at stalling your opponent.

My alt. win con is Crumbling colossus who benefits from my Adaptive automaton and from Coat of Arms, to give him any amount of power I need.

But he's a big obvious target for a CounterSpell, which means he will always likely be hit by one and he can only hit once!
While not a Golem, I would consider running JuggerNaut as my alternate win con.

as for ponder, your not understanding. Ponder is for the early game where I need to control EXACTLY what I draw to keep my Soultether in play, get my mana base up, draw basically what will keep me alive.

I would also run Halimar Depths here too then, since you aren't always gonna have a Ponder and you seem to like this card.

But its stupid to rely on one move for your win when control is so popular right now.

What? You didn't mention Format anywhere. Where are you gonna be playing this?


For funsies, I spitballed up my version of this deck:
 

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I'm going to continue this conversation within the spoiler tags, as it is becoming quite lengthy and neither of us should clutter up your thread.
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I'm gonna move this point up the front because it's the whole crux of my argument with you:

The whole theme is golem. that doesn't mean adding in more myrs, but keeping the off type cards to a minimum.

I am gonna be honest with you here, your deck will improve if you abandon either the subtheme of BlightSteel Colossus or the Golem tribal. I feel that by trying to do two things, you are really limiting yourself.
This is, admittedly, due to the fact that Golems aren't a fantastically supported Tribe. This could potentially work with Elves, for instance.

He's golem centric for Coat of Arms/Adaptive Automaton, and pretty freakin' good considering he costs two, and as long as I play 1 creature a turn he stays alive until killed by regular means.

Why not simply run Guard Gomazoa or Fog Bank here? Yes, you sacrifice Tribal Synergy, but you get something even better at stalling your opponent.

My alt. win con is Crumbling colossus who benefits from my Adaptive automaton and from Coat of Arms, to give him any amount of power I need.

But he's a big obvious target for a CounterSpell, which means he will always likely be hit by one and he can only hit once!
While not a Golem, I would consider running JuggerNaut as my alternate win con.

as for ponder, your not understanding. Ponder is for the early game where I need to control EXACTLY what I draw to keep my Soultether in play, get my mana base up, draw basically what will keep me alive.

I would also run Halimar Depths here too then, since you aren't always gonna have a Ponder and you seem to like this card.

But its stupid to rely on one move for your win when control is so popular right now.

What? You didn't mention Format anywhere. Where are you gonna be playing this?


For funsies, I spitballed up my version of this deck:
 




Good idea. The tribal synergy actually makes this deck work in this case. because they are all golems, Adaptive Automaton is actually useful, as almost every creature in the deck benefits from it. As for Fog bank and such, again, not golems, not as powerful P/T wise, and limited by defender, which keeps them from being viable for my 3rd win con, Coat of Arms.  My golem is weakened by his time counters, but the risk is minimized by the amount of draw/search in this deck. Halimar depths is what I didn't see in your other posts. (sorry for missing it.) I would definitely add it in, because it is like a free ponder.

You are right about Crumbly being an obvious target for control, but that's the point. If I waste my opponents control cards on all my different power golems (crumbly, Artisan, even Coat of Arms), that gives my main combo an even better chance of winning, especially with the deck search and the topdeck control provided by Halimar/Ponder!

Your deck is an excellent myr deck, although you missed a gem in Myr Enforcer and Myr Retriever. Possibly Myr Welder and Shimmer Myr as well. They are GREAT Myr creatures.

EDIT: thought of a great way to explain it. Think of this deck like one BIG magic trick. It has lots of juicy targets to draw your eyes away from the real threat. A control deck can run only so many controls, so eventually they are going to be left with the 12 or so BIG creatures they were running, with no good way to protect them, and will have nothing to stop me from doing anything. It's like a trap that forces them to keep controlling, until they are squeezed dry and easy pickings. Because of Automatons on the field, giving my creatures probably an average of +2/+2 per match (because of draw), its easy for me to deal with even some of the biggest badder baddies running in blue currently.
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Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.



put in like two Unsummons then? weird that they all cost differently. maybe because of color weight in the set though I guess.

If you want to save them but generally by the time you are playing and attacking with a [/c]Crumbling Colossus[/c] you wont want to use the mana to bring him back to your hand and then recast him next turn when you could be casting a [/c]Blightsteel Colossus[/c].

What costs differently?



you're forgetting that once Myco golem comes out, all of my 6-7 costs and below become pretty much free.  I can bring out Curmbly for free, and then play Blight for 5-6 mana, which I would need on the field anyways for Myco.



Oh I didn't forget that, but you can't count on getting him out that quickly, maybe you wont ever draw him, and then you end up with 2 Unsummons in your hand and nothing to bounce.

You are Red/Blue!

I think Totothecat is trying to avoid making the typecast myr deck like everyone else does.  If I'm trying to make a golem/combo deck then I'm trying to make a golem/combo deck.  There is a fine line between giving suggestions for a deck to help it, and then just suggesting an entirely different deck.

You are Red/Blue!

Blinkmoth Urn could be something for making alot of mana sans-myrs.

Lodestone Golem is probably one of the best Golems printed.

I'm not a fan of Crumbling Colossus or the Vanishing guy - both are pretty subpar.

One idea could be to go UW and have stuff like Blade Splicer and Wing Splicer.
Blinkmoth Urn could be something for making alot of mana sans-myrs.

Lodestone Golem is probably one of the best Golems printed.

I'm not a fan of Crumbling Colossus or the Vanishing guy - both are pretty subpar.

One idea could be to go UW and have stuff like Blade Splicer and Wing Splicer.



I switched Vanishing guy for Battered Golem. He just works better for the deck.

I'll switch out Crumbly for Lode. He should help against control decks.
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Yes it makes them indestructible.

Rules:
700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

Seat of the Synod is actually the cheapest of the artifact lands.  A playset of all the different ones will run you about 60-70 bucks conservatively.  There isn't much you can do to prevent having to sacrifice those creatures unless you Unsummon or Saving Grasp them to your hand after you attack or they are about to die.



put in like two Unsummons then? weird that they all cost differently. maybe because of color weight in the set though I guess.

If you want to save them but generally by the time you are playing and attacking with a [/c]Crumbling Colossus[/c] you wont want to use the mana to bring him back to your hand and then recast him next turn when you could be casting a [/c]Blightsteel Colossus[/c].

What costs differently?



you're forgetting that once Myco golem comes out, all of my 6-7 costs and below become pretty much free.  I can bring out Curmbly for free, and then play Blight for 5-6 mana, which I would need on the field anyways for Myco.



Oh I didn't forget that, but you can't count on getting him out that quickly, maybe you wont ever draw him, and then you end up with 2 Unsummons in your hand and nothing to bounce.




well, thinking like that, I could end up putting most of my golems to the bottom, and just use Blue Sun's Zenith in my deck to pull more draw instead of Tezzeret's Gambit. After that, I even get Deck shuffle, which is really nice.

Drop Ponder for a cheaper draw maybe.
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The stuff that works well with blightsteel collossus also works with other artifacts/golems, which is good, but there isn't much to actually get BC out. So until you get more you're going to have a decent golem deck but you're unlikely to pull BC out.  Having only 2 BC makes it even less likely to draw him, but OTOH with little to bring him out that may be good since they're often dead draws anyway.  Tezzeret's Gambit isn't that great since it only works well with BC and not everything else too.  I'd say adding more targets to proliferate would be the wrong solution to that issue, since it adds a new focus to your deck when you should stick to the artifact/golem focus and pick cards that work well with those.


A couple other options to look into are copper gnomes and Deathrender.  And the various colorless lands that make more than 1 mana like the locuses, urzatron and ancient tomb.

More ponder/preordain would be better than halimar depths.  Same cost, greater benefit.  Or get both.  But regardless I'd get at most 3 so that you don't get stuck paying the mana (coming in tapped) whether you like it or not.  It's a pain having 3 bad top cards and nothing to do about it, or even 1 bad card and merely delaying it 2 turns.  Reordering cards like these are useful in general, and they are especially good for pulling off your combos.


A 3 card combo of 2 drops is hard to ever draw. Even 4 drops would be a 50:50 shot by turn 6. The key to deck reliablity is alternatives: either alternative ways to pull off your main strategy or alternative things you can do instead of your main strategy.


A couple other options to look into are copper gnomes and Deathrender.


Your alternative seems to be golems, which is good, but make sure they mesh well as a backup. I don't see why you have Tezzeret's Gambit with nothing to proliferate except blightsteel collossus. The rest of the time it's 3-4 mana for +1 card advantage. The rest works well with both blightsteel colossus and other golems, so they're more reliable and good.  Ya you could add more things to proliferate and keep Tezzeret's Gambit, but it's not good for reliability to spread yourself into too many goals.  You seem to already have an artifact/golem focus so I'd stick with that.  The second thing is that while your combo also benefits other artifacts/golems (good), if you don't have the combo then a blightsteel collossus is a dead draw.  Which might be tolerable since you only have 2, but alternate ways to get him in that also benefit your other artifacts/golems might be nice.


I'd run only 3 halimar depths because it eats a mana and unlike ponder or preordain it only delays bad cards. With only 3 you're much more likely to have a choice between island and halimar depths as needed, rather than being stuck.  For that matter I'd rather have more ponder/preordain and zero halimars.  It's the same mana cost with greater benefit.  Or run both the spells and halimars (still at most 3), so you can ditch your top cards if they're bad.

To save space and time I haven't gotten into the specifics of the probability with all this, but it exists.




Instead of Tezzeret or Preordain, how about Counsel of the Soratami? It nets me two cards, and costs only three. Deep Analysis is also good AND comes with a flashback.

I would drop blightsteel to two, but against removal and such, it would be a bad idea to drop him to one. Normally, with all the draw I want in the deck, I should be able to pull almost any card I need unless I pulled some really screwed up shuffle and all my power cards end up on bottom. Worst case scenario is I have nothing that shuffles me and lose to extreme unluck. Thats why I wanna run two or three Blue Sun's Zenith, in case I need a good shuffle and I have almost no cards in hand, I can pull out something awesome.

As for Halimar, it also taps for blue mana, and allows me to do EXACTLY what Ponder does, for free though. Might be a mistake to have 4 of each in the deck though. I'd drop Ponder, and use those extra three slots for 2 Blue Sun's Zenith. Use Gambits open spots for Counsel of Soratami or Analysis, depending on how well each plays. that turns my spell list to:

2 X Coat of Arms
3 X Unsummon
4 X Fabricate
4 X OR Deep Analysis
2 X Blue Sun's Zenith

Maybe put 4 Death render in SB with 2 coats One more BSZ, 2 extra mycos/Artisans and 4 Loxodon Warhammer.

That should give me enough different plays to deal with nearly any kind of deck. Use Lox for battered golem if possible for early power against ramp/burn decks. against control decks I can add in extra Mycos/Artisans/Coats (depending). Facing decks that runs arti/creature hate, I can use the extra BSZ to find my power cards faster and end the game ASAP.

what do ya think?
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
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Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.

Halimar comes in tapped so you basically pay ponder's cost whether you like it or not, whether you need it or not.  Especially if you run 4 and sometimes it ends up being your only option for a land drop.  And it doesn't let you shuffle if the top of your deck is bad like ponder does.


Counsel of the Soratami is a net gain of 1 card. It's a slight improvement. Deep analysis is a net gain of 3 for 6 mana and 3 life, so it's a better deal. Though up front it's a little more costly. Blue Sun's zenith requires X=4 to catch up so it's usually worse. All 3 could eat all your mana for the turn. I'd rather have ponder or preordain and such to find what you want and still do other things during the same turn. That's better in the short run; draw is better when you completely run out of cards late game.  You don't seem to be turbo spamming spells so I wouldn't kill your early game on it.  Or you might get 2-3 so you never get stuck with too many early when you don't need them.


Ya tutors like fabricate are also good for finding your combos or whatever you need in general.


I wouldn't have more than 3 of any one equipment because drawing duplicate equipment isn't as useful as the first one.  If you want more you could mix in different equipments as 2-3 drops.

In general a 3 drop is a good way to avoid a painful duplicate; the probability of a duplicate drops drastically.  It might seem unlikely for any single card, but if you have five different 4 drops where you don't want duplicates then one of the five is very likely to hit you with a duplicate.

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Halimar comes in tapped so you basically pay ponder's cost whether you like it or not, whether you need it or not. And it doesn't let you shuffle if the top of your deck is bad.


Counsel of the Soratami is a net gain of 1 card. It's a slight improvement. Deep analysis is a net gain of 3 for 6 mana and 3 life, so it's a better deal. Though up front it's a little more costly. Blue Sun's zenith requires X=4 to catch up so it's usually worse. All 3 could eat all your mana for the turn. I'd rather have ponder or preordain and such to find what you want and still do other things during the same turn. That's better in the short run; draw is better when you completely run out of cards late game.  You don't seem to be turbo spamming spells so I wouldn't kill your early game on it.


Ya tutors like fabricate are also good for finding your combos.


I wouldn't have more than 3 of any one equipment because drawing duplicate equipment isn't as useful as the first one.  If you want more you could mix in different equipments as 2-3 drops.





Thats true I suppose, but hali doesn't take up any of my very valuable spell spaces. Its just a land. Your points though are extremely valid for ponder and Preordain. what would you suggest for the spell list?

as for the Lox hammer and Render, they actually help me out with their Trample (because I have a lot of bigger creatures in this deck), and their play (an alternate way to pull out Blightsteel/any other golem for no mana), so I want them as often as possible. It allows me to lose my hand and draw with Counsel and Deep analysis and not worry about discard for my draws.

As for mana spending, with 24 lands and 3 myrs, as well as some cheap (see counsel) draw, I should have more than enough lands to do anything I need to, using a sort of "self mill", but for my hand instead of Graveyard.
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I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Ponder and preordain don't take up space either, since they let you draw a replacement.  In fact they thin your deck a little which is a good thing.  I mean you could run more than 60 cards, increasing your deck size by that many ponders/preordains, keep all your existing spells and it wouldn't hurt deck reliability.  But running 60 with ponder/preordain is even better.  In a sense you're allowed a deck that is less than 60 cards, which is a good thing not a bad thing.  The only drawback is the mana cost which you pay with halimar anyway when it comes in tapped.  If preordain/ponder/serum visions cost 0 then every deck in the world including tournament vintage decks would run all 12 copies because they would have fewer spells and a much better chance of getting the ones they want.

If I'm mistaken and  you burn your hand fast then card draw is fine.

If you really rely on something then a 4 drop is fine in spite of the duplicates you might get, but the ideal would be an alternative that's equally good to avoid duplicates.  Shadow rift is another option for unblockability.  I don't like it much because you only get it once and it eats hand space until you can use it, but in your case you might only need it once a lot of the time.
Ponder and preordain don't take up space either, since they let you draw a replacement.  In fact they thin your deck a little which is a good thing.  I mean you could run more than 60 cards, increasing your deck size by that many ponders/preordains, keep all your existing spells and it wouldn't hurt deck reliability.  But running 60 with ponder/preordain is even better.  In a sense you're allowed a deck that is less than 60 cards, which is a good thing not a bad thing.  The only drawback is the mana cost which you pay with halimar anyway when it comes in tapped.  If preordain/ponder/serum visions cost 0 then every deck in the world including tournament vintage decks would run all 12 copies because they would have fewer spells and a much better chance of getting the ones they want.

If I'm mistaken and  you burn your hand fast then card draw is fine.

If you really rely on something then a 4 drop is fine in spite of the duplicates you might get, but the ideal would be an alternative that's equally good to avoid duplicates.  Shadow rift is another option for unblockability.  I don't like it much because you only get it once and it eats hand space until you can use it, but in your case you might only need it once a lot of the time.



yu should post your version of the spell list. I understand what you mean (I think).

I will tend to burn through my hands really fast if Palladium Myr comes out, because the gives me enough mana ability to pretty much play anything but Blightsteel easily. Using Death Rend, I can play even blightsteel for free by equipping him to one of my Myrs and then attacking with it, and hoping he doesn't chump block me. might add in Lox hammer as well so that he can't ignore the 7/4 and be forced to kill block. Bring out blightsteel with Death Rend for free, equip, they have one turn to figure something out, because he'll start 14/14, gain the bouns that mu golems will have through Coat/Automaton, and then become something like 18/15 or something really huge if it's coat. Pretty much a garanteed win against anything not running counter spells.
I am Blue/Green
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I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
4 Frogmite 4 Myr Enforcer 4 Thoughtcast 4 Qumulox 4 Broodstar 4 Sol Ring 4 Seat of the Synod 4 Argent Sphinx 4 Vedalken Certarch 4 Mox Opal 4 Etched Champion 4 Etherium Sculptor 4 Master of Etherium 8 Island

This Deck has been very Successful and you can just try to fit in your Combo Pieces and Extra Digging if you want.

Mafia Game Slots:

1. Open

2. Hundred Acres (Dead Town)

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I think you have the right idea and it'd take a lot of work for me to make a specific deck list that's correct; better if you put the time in than me pull something out of my rear end.  But I will say this: If you need card draw I'd keep the 4 deep analysis and skip the other 3 draws since they're not that good.  If you go with ponder/preordain back in then you can probably get away with 1 less land since they only cost and worst case scenario you can scry for a land. 
I think you have the right idea and it'd take a lot of work for me to make a specific deck list that's correct; better if you put the time in than me pull something out of my rear end.  But I will say this: If you need card draw I'd keep the 4 deep analysis and skip the other 3 draws since they're not that good.  If you go with ponder/preordain back in then you can probably get away with 1 less land since they only cost and worst case scenario you can scry for a land. 



so basically, keep Analysis, drop other draws for preordain and ponder?
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
4 Frogmite 4 Myr Enforcer 4 Thoughtcast 4 Qumulox 4 Broodstar 4 Sol Ring 4 Seat of the Synod 4 Argent Sphinx 4 Vedalken Certarch 4 Mox Opal 4 Etched Champion 4 Etherium Sculptor 4 Master of Etherium 8 Island

This Deck has been very Successful and you can just try to fit in your Combo Pieces and Extra Digging if you want.



This isn't even relevant to the thread. have you even read the topic post, as well as any of the responses?
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Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
That's just Zokorad.  He attempts, but mostly fails at making sarcastic posts at the expense and annoyance of others.  I think he was trying to say that people should stop trying to point out that there is a fine line between helping your deck and then completely changing it?  Not sure.  See, that's why I said he tries.

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That's just Zokorad.  He attempts, but mostly fails at making sarcastic posts at the expense and annoyance of others.  I think he was trying to say that people should stop trying to point out that there is a fine line between helping your deck and then completely changing it?  Not sure.  See, that's why I said he tries.



well, I suppose every forum has to have their special troll. Oh well, I'll just keep on my toes from now on.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
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