WoTC will be skunked again

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www.kickstarter.com/projects/rileydutton...

The demo for this Kickstarter project is already a better Virtual Table Top then what WoTC has.

Man, DnD Next better have the most amazing Digital aspect ever if they want to complete with what other people are doing.

And they clearly designed it with DnD in mind, since they mentioned status effects, like bloodied.
The demo does look pretty amazing.

I am cautiously optimistic, and I have already signed on as a Benefactor.

I really do hope that this is as amazing as it looks.

Thankfully, since they've gotten more than five times their requested funds, their schedule for beta and release may actually happen in the very near future.

I'm looking forward to it!

-Thomas
Everyone already knows that DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table.

This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.

Fantasy Grounds II still handles D&D (multiple editions, amongst other games) quite well with its own native rulesets, and while I wish Roll20 the best of luck (and I will keep an eye on it), I'll stick with FG.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

it looks pretty cool, i play exclusively online via Maptool and i have to say, Maptool can already do everything this does and more. it might not look as pretty and it has a learning curve that's about a sheer as a cliff face, but with a group of people who know the program, it works amazingly.

Maptool is also free.
This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.



To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.



To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.



Not the one I help beta, unless you ingore half of the features, then its less effective than all of the alternatives (and that includes having webcams pointing at the game board).
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.



To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.

Supposedly.  Have you actually played anything other than D&D on it?  Or seen something other than D&D demoed in person or in a video?  I sure haven't.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.

Such as?  Do you have links to videos?  I certainly would love to see them in action.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.

Such as?  Do you have links to videos?  I certainly would love to see them in action.




i dont have any vids but ive played 1e and call of cthulhu on it

its pretty awesome bc you can save your pc to the cloud so you only have to make it once


ive played 1e with mand on it
I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.

Such as?  Do you have links to videos?  I certainly would love to see them in action.



Er

What exactly are you expecting to have videos of?  There are tiles we put down, we have tokens and move them, and we set up rolls for various things, and roll them.  It works just the same as it would in 4e, except it's not 4e.

I mean, it's nothing but a fancy set of internet polyhedrals, when you get right down to it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I have, actually.  Several different systems in addition to 4e.

Such as?  Do you have links to videos?  I certainly would love to see them in action.



Er

What exactly are you expecting to have videos of?  There are tiles we put down, we have tokens and move them, and we set up rolls for various things, and roll them.  It works just the same as it would in 4e, except it's not 4e.

I mean, it's nothing but a fancy set of internet polyhedrals, when you get right down to it.

Videos of the VT in action running a rule set other than 4E...  There are videos on just about everythng, particularly computer-based gaming environments.  I can see videos of Star Wars SAGA in Fantasy Grounds; requesting a link to a video of another rule system in VT is hardly a demanding request.

If you don't have a link, then that's fine.  Acting shocked or put out is rather disingenuous, though.  I am sure you've heard of YouTube and have seen all the diversity it provides.  I was simply asking because I would like to see it in action.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

My point is that it doesn't look any different.  I'm not put out, I'm just not clear at all what you hope to see.  If you've seen it playing 4e, you've seen what it looks like playing anything.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
My point is that it doesn't look any different.  I'm not put out, I'm just not clear at all what you hope to see.  If you've seen it playing 4e, you've seen what it looks like playing anything.

So if it doesn't look any different, then how do you even know that you're playing something than 4E? How is it different?  If you can even remotely answer those questions, then...
 
It's very clear what I am asking for.  I want to see a system other than 4E being run on the VT.  I want to see how it's played and how the VT supports it.  I want to see what potential work I have to do to prepare a game of Warhammer or Burning Wheel.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

How do you know what system any group is playing if all they're using is polyhedrals and a battlemat?  They look the same, from the outside.  Really, what you would see if I were to FRAPS a 1e or 3e session in the VT is quite simple:  tokens moving around on a map, both pcs and monsters.  The built-in math automation is 4e-based, so there are some features that you can't use if you use other systems.  1e can't use the hit/miss automation, so you do it the old-fashioned way - roll a number, compare to AC, see if you hit.  It works in 3e, though, for both AC and touch AC if you use say the 4e Reflex defense in place of touch AC and keep track of things that way.  Every other roll has to be manually entered, such as saving throws.  But that's easy, you just add a new roll, give it a label and define it, e.g. "Will Save:  d20+5"  Then you hit the button, and it will roll a d20, add 5, and show you the result in a line of text that includes the label "Will Save"

It works as well as polyehdrals and a battlemat does, for any system that can make use of polyhedrals and a battlemat.  You don't get the shiny new features of roll automation, but it's no worse than you would get on an actual live table.  I don't know much about Warhammer and less about Burning Wheel, but from what I do remember about Warhammer its non-square-grid-limited AOEs are not going to translate well, as the VT uses a square grid and its area effect tool is limited to filling in those squares.

I'm not clear at all why you're being so aggressive about this.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
How do you know what system any group is playing if all they're using is polyhedrals and a battlemat?  They look the same, from the outside.  Really, what you would see if I were to FRAPS a 1e or 3e session in the VT is quite simple:  tokens moving around on a map, both pcs and monsters.  The built-in math automation is 4e-based, so there are some features that you can't use if you use other systems.  1e can't use the hit/miss automation, so you do it the old-fashioned way - roll a number, compare to AC, see if you hit.  It works in 3e, though, for both AC and touch AC if you use say the 4e Reflex defense in place of touch AC and keep track of things that way.  Every other roll has to be manually entered, such as saving throws.  But that's easy, you just add a new roll, give it a label and define it, e.g. "Will Save:  d20+5"  Then you hit the button, and it will roll a d20, add 5, and show you the result in a line of text that includes the label "Will Save"

It works as well as polyehdrals and a battlemat does, for any system that can make use of polyhedrals and a battlemat.  You don't get the shiny new features of roll automation, but it's no worse than you would get on an actual live table.  I don't know much about Warhammer and less about Burning Wheel, but from what I do remember about Warhammer its non-square-grid-limited AOEs are not going to translate well, as the VT uses a square grid and its area effect tool is limited to filling in those squares.

I'm not clear at all why you're being so aggressive about this.

I am not being aggressive whatsoever.  I am neither attacking you or the VT.  I just want see this system independancy in action.  It's not an overwhelming request.  If it's too difficult for you to answer, let someone else answer it that is not so sensitive about the line of questions.

What you are describing is really not a system independant engine at all.  It's really nothing more than workarounds and there is no way for me to incorporate other game rules into the VT unless they happen to coincide with the functionality already provided.  You see, Fantasy Grounds 2 allows for custom scripting and rule sets.  When someone says "system independant," that is the image that is formed for me: the ability to customize the engine in order to support the game I want to run. 

That is what I was asking to see in action.

But what you describe is the furthest thing from my understanding of something being "system independant."  On the contrary, it is quite dependant.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

Yes, that was not clear at all from your earlier statements.  No, you can't program the VT.

Being able to customize the platform is not the same thing as being system independent, though.  You can have system independence without customization, and you can have independence with sufficient customization to get the flashy features you want.  The point is that I can and have played non-4e games on the VT.

By the way, what's the difference between customization and a workaround?

Also, I have a suggestion.  Rather than having someone do the work for you, how about you try it yourself?  You have access to the VT, go test it out and see if it works for you rather than jumping down my throat for trying to be helpful.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Yes, that was not clear at all from your earlier statements.  No, you can't program the VT.

My earlier statement was a simple question of which systems were played and where there any videos of them in action.  At that point, you commenced portraying my questions as an attack when you could have simply just answered the questions.

"We played 1E and Cthulu. I am unaware of any videos."

"Thank you, Mand12."

That's how it should have went down.    

Being able to customize the platform is not the same thing as being system independent, though.  You can have system independence without customization, and you can have independence with sufficient customization to get the flashy features you want.  The point is that I can and have played non-4e games on the VT.

By the way, what's the difference between customization and a workaround?

A workaround can involve ignoring what is presented to you (i.e. I will use WILL as Saving Throw vs. Breath Weapon).  Customization is changing the program to cater to your needs (i.e. WILL actually displays Save vs. BW).

Calling the VT "system independent" gives a very strong impression that any system can be run on the VT.  That is not the case at all.

Also, I have a suggestion.  Rather than having someone do the work for you, how about you try it yourself?  You have access to the VT, go test it out and see if it works for you rather than jumping down my throat for trying to be helpful.

Where did I ever ask for someone to do the work for me?  I asked if there were videos already in existence.  You're an intelligent guy.  Certainly you understand the difference and how someone might want to see some videos before diving headlong into something that may or may not be achievable.

Also, no one jumped down your throat.  Please stop trying to play the victim here.  I was asking questions.  Every single one was a perfectly legitimate question that was neither offensive, disrespectful, uncivil, nor an attack.  Stop trying to pick a fight where there is none.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.



To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.

Supposedly.  Have you actually played anything other than D&D on it?  Or seen something other than D&D demoed in person or in a video?  I sure haven't.


Because this isn't hostile, at all.  Not only do you just not believe me and dismiss my firsthand experience, you have to add in the sarcastic comment at the end.  You can't see how that might be construed as aggressive?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.



To be fair, the WotC VT is largely system-independent.  You can play anything you want on it.

Supposedly.  Have you actually played anything other than D&D on it?  Or seen something other than D&D demoed in person or in a video?  I sure haven't.


Because this isn't hostile, at all.  Not only do you just not believe me and dismiss my firsthand experience, you have to add in the sarcastic comment at the end.  You can't see how that might be construed as aggressive?

Not at all.  That's neither hostile nor is it disbelief.  I asked for your personal experience because I had none of my own.  Seriously, you are really looking for things to be offended by, Mand12.

Personally, I don't even know why you interjected to begin with.  No one was even talking about the VT.  I was responding in reaction to the link presented.  You are the one that brought that aspect of it into the conversation.

But...  your initial response is actually inaccurate.  You can't play "anything you want on it."  I guess that perceived disbelief was warranted since it was an untrue statement, even though I never once accused you of or implied that you were lying.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

Everyone already knows that DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table.

This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.

Fantasy Grounds II still handles D&D (multiple editions, amongst other games) quite well with its own native rulesets, and while I wish Roll20 the best of luck (and I will keep an eye on it), I'll stick with FG.


Bolded for reason why I interjected.  You were talking about the VT, so your claim that no one was talking about it is pretty much completely wrong.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Everyone already knows that DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table.

This particular one looks average to average plus at best and I see nothing that references D&D in any way, shape, or form.  Mentioning a generic term "bloodied" in one of a few videos does not really mean anything.

Fantasy Grounds II still handles D&D (multiple editions, amongst other games) quite well with its own native rulesets, and while I wish Roll20 the best of luck (and I will keep an eye on it), I'll stick with FG.


Bolded for reason why I interjected.  You were talking about the VT, so your claim that no one was talking about it is pretty much completely wrong.

As a general observation on DDI, not on the VT specifically.  If I was talking about the VT, I would have specified the VT.  Officially and technically, they don't even have a VT released.  It's still in beta.

So no, I was no talking about the VT, just DDI in general.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

I'm sorry, I thought by "DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table" in a thread about digital tables you mean the DDI digital table, not a metaphorical table.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'm sorry, I thought by "DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table" in a thread about digital tables you mean the DDI digital table, not a metaphorical table.

It doesn't matter what digital table I was talking about (Wizards has had more than one digital table planned for DDI, if you recall).  The only point that mattered was that DDI is playing catch up.  You chimed in with a statement that was intriguing to me because I have been out of the VT loop for a while.  So I inquired about your statement, but later you, yourself, proved it to be inaccurate (alas, to my disappointment).

Enough of the derailment.  The link provided in the OP points to a potentially average digital tabletop that appears to be rules-neutral.  I don't see it ever surpassing the 4E VT in 4E game play unless they directly incorporate the 4E rules.  It may never surpass the 4E VT if it never offers integration into the compendium via an API.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

I'm sorry, I thought by "DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table" in a thread about digital tables you mean the DDI digital table, not a metaphorical table.

It doesn't matter what digital table I was talking about (Wizards has had more than one digital table planned for DDI, if you recall).  The only point that mattered was that DDI is playing catch up.  You chimed in with a statement that was intriguing to me because I have been out of the VT loop for a while.  So I inquired about your statement, but later you, yourself, proved it to be inaccurate (alas, to my disappointment).



What they had planned for their original table was completely awesome and way ahead of the curve...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I'm sorry, I thought by "DDI is playing catch-up on the digital table" in a thread about digital tables you mean the DDI digital table, not a metaphorical table.

It doesn't matter what digital table I was talking about (Wizards has had more than one digital table planned for DDI, if you recall).  The only point that mattered was that DDI is playing catch up.  You chimed in with a statement that was intriguing to me because I have been out of the VT loop for a while.  So I inquired about your statement, but later you, yourself, proved it to be inaccurate (alas, to my disappointment).



What they had planned for their original table was completely awesome and way ahead of the curve...

No doubt.  And now they are way behind the curve because of that event (which I in no way blame WotC for, btw).  To make amends, I just wish that they would have made an offer to Fantasy Grounds rather than the current developer.

I hope for much better than the current VT for 5E, but I doubt we'll get it.

Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.

Why WotC hasn't bought out MapTools is an absolute mystery to me. Rather than trying to do everything in house, just buy the company that's already done the hard work and give them access to the WotC data cloud so they can focus on integration with DDI. Hasbro has deep pockets, this is a no brainer. Watching WotC develop the VT has been a long, slow, and often painful experience.

Hopefully they've learned a lot and whatever they're planning for 5e will be something special. 5e had better release with rock solid digital tools or they will once again fall behind the curve of everyone else.
I just read over on the M:tG forums that WOTC has pulled there magic app for iPhone, iPad, off the app store because the last update they did to it really messed it up. 

No word from WOTC about the app either.

At least WOTC is being consistent in that respect. Not telling the customer what's going on. 

I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.


You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...


Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

I just read over on the M:tG forums that WOTC has pulled there magic app for iPhone, iPad, off the app store because the last update they did to it really messed it up. 

No word from WOTC about the app either.

At least WOTC is being consistent in that respect. Not telling the customer what's going on. 



in addition to the thread which is totally out of place... how is this even relivent to the discussion?

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.



in addition to the thread which is totally out of place... how is this even relivent to the discussion?



Just showing people here on the DDi side of things how WOTC is now doing the same thing to the magic players by pulling a digital product and no one from WOTC saying anything. Silence almost 4 years ago from WOTC with DDi. Silence now with MtG Toolbox.

Shows me WOTC has not learn anything at all from the botched customer relation hell when 4th ed launched.

Paying customers and customers thinking of paying money to WOTC for a digital product need to know what kind of company they are dealing with.



in addition to the thread which is totally out of place... how is this even relivent to the discussion?



Just showing people here on the DDi side of things how WOTC is now doing the same thing to the magic players by pulling a digital product and no one from WOTC saying anything. Silence almost 4 years ago from WOTC with DDi. Silence now with MtG Toolbox.

Shows me WOTC has not learn anything at all from the botched customer relation hell when 4th ed launched.

Paying customers and customers thinking of paying money to WOTC for a digital product need to know what kind of company they are dealing with.




Okay just rocking the boat any way you can, gotcha.

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

New here; where can I find the virtual table top?
The group is here.  The forums are where you can actually get going on a table and playing, that's where the vast majority of games get started.  General, public games tend to get filled with noshows, so nearly all of the successful games get started with a forum thread and then the DM sends specific invites as a private table.

The VT itself is here.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition