Greater number of score abilites.

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I know the six scores abilites is a sacred cow of D&D, but I can´t avoid thinking the idea like house-rules.

But I think I would need some advice or suggestion because greater number of scores abilites could help munchkin players to a abuse of max-min stats for creation of PC. How could it be avoided? A option would be the distribution of points for groups or cattegories (Body, Mind and Interaction).

What about the abilites of nPCs?  

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

The words you used don't make sense in the order you put them? You want to add ability scores but are concerned that it would add another dump stat that people would use the points for dumping to get more high scores?


If thats what you are asking, I think the answer depends on what the stats you are adding are supposed to do. Regardless, any added stats should be important for every character, just like the main 6 (are supposed to be). If you dump wis you have a bad will save. No one likes to dump wis. 


Alternatively, consider having a substat each of which are based on your primary stat. For example, every character has a Charisma stat. Mine is 18. Charisma is normally used to determine how awesome I am, and how pretty I am (very). Our (hypothetical) DM intruduced substats. My Charisma is 18, but I don't use it for anything. Instead I use my substats, which are determined by my charisma. My substats are Appearance and Personality. My appearance starts at 18 and I took the flowing locks feat. That geat gives +2 appearance. Unfortunatly, I also suffered the "**** curse" which gives -6 to personality.  This means that while my charisma is 18, my appearance is 20, and my personality is 12.


This gives us 12 stats to play around with (Assuming you divide each into 2), but because they are derived stats, I still only spend points as though there were 6.


Common derived stats are 



  • Str- Power (attacks and stuff) and Focus (carrying capacity)

  • Dex - Agility (mobility stuff) Precision (lock picking)

  • Con - Endurance (hit points) Durability (Skills or saves or something)

  • Int - Smarts (Problem solving) and Recollection (How fast do you recall facts)

  • Wis - Awareness (how fast do you notice stuff) Willpower (force of will)

  • Cha - Appearance (phyical) and Personality (force of will)


I generally recomend against adding or dividing stats for DND, but I also think we could/should cut it to Strength (Lump con in here), Agility, Smarts (steal some of wis), Wisdom (Lump some of cha here, drop the rest) and call it a day. 

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Thanks for you answer.

I don´t say it should be a official change, only some advices to do it like houserules.

I can´t avoid any influence by storytelling system.

My new abilities are

- wits/astuteness/shrewdness

- courage/bravery/morale

- percepcion

- technique. (it isn´t like Dexterity. It´s about actions of long time like art or learnt by practice like dancing, playing music or special attacks /hold/lock of martial arts). It´s a abilite for crafting and martial arts.

 Percepcion can be only a racial bonus about senses. Courage could be very important for settings of horror like Ravenloft.

* A option is "secundary" abilities can have got a "frozen" value what can be improved with points of abilites for creation of PC. That was the idea I had for "Appaerance" like sub-abilitie.

Now I think a limit of nine abilities is enough, a and some hypotetical abilites like karma/fate/luch/chance are only special bonus what can be improved by racial traits and "spending" points of other abilites for creation of PC. 

Could we talk about sub-abilities like houserule? 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

- int/wis/int
- not an ability score/not an ability score/generally dependant on individual personality or someone else's management style
- wisdom
- skill rank or feat bonuses



Of those things you listed that aren't already incorporated into an ability score most aren't actually implementable as ability scores.

Courage for example is a decision, you decide to do something despite the risks because you think it's worth it.

Morale is even less tangible since it's in constant flux, and generally applied conceptually to groups.

Why do you want these things as separate stats? Let me tell you right now that without a massive overhaul of the system there's no way to balance a seventh, or even split stats in the 4e engine. 
Courage and Morale is like Willpower. It´s for psychic stress like Con for body. Courage would help PCs to save effects like fear or magic horror.

Rebember the monster of AD&D had morale.

- wits/astuteness/shrewdness would like the "speed of mind", the Dex of thoughts and like manipulation (the attribute from Storytelling System).

- Perception, awareness, observation.. I´m afraid it would be only used for skills like looking traps....or clues about a mistery. It may it should be only a semiatributes..(racial bonus are possibles but there aren´t thrown dices for it for creation of PC).

* The challenge, the headache is when the houserule allows the abilite to be used for powers... for example a bard uses bonus of Technique to play magic music, or a monk to use "ki maneuver" ... or DM chooses the bonus for higher abilities is astuteness instead Wis for evil divine spellcasters.


Now I think perception and technique only semiabilities (o second category).

* A option would be the "secondary" abilites for creation of PC have got a fixed value, that number can´t be changed (but racial traits or class features)....but the player choose one of that of abilitie like "main" replace other. For example a artificier gnome chooses technique like abilite to be used for its character class, and he "sacrifice" or "renuncie" Cha. PC hasn´t lose Cha but the Cha has got a prefixed value like if it were been a secondary abilite for beggining. Have I explained it correctly? It could help to avoid the abuse of max-min by munchkins.

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

No, it wont, it'll make it worse.

All of these 'abilities' you wanna add are already covered by other stats in 4e, with rolled scores that means they have extra dump stats so they have even better odds for filling up their big three scores while letting everything else rot, and in a point buy game you need to give them more points to achieve the same average spread so a munchkin, or anyone with half a brain, is gonna funnel those extra points into maxing out their main stats and ignore all the little fiddly over specialized stats.

Protecting against fear and such is done with the will defense which is covered by the higher of either your wis or cha.

Intelligence already covers spead of thought and puzzling out clues.

Technique is having training in a skill or feats to improve an attack roll, you can't have a universally applicable technique stat.

Perception is one part training, one part natural alertness represented by wis mod and racial bonuses/lack thereof.

None of these stats are anywhere near broad enough to rate the same treatment as one of the six primary ability scores. Half-of them are personality traits, and I dunno much about AD&D but did the PC's roll 3d6 for their morale stat? was there a spell that gave +4 to courage for 1 hour per caster level? 
The first and most important question you need to ask yourself about any houserule is "What am I trying to accomplish?" That is, what is the perceived "problem" that you are trying to "fix" with this new system?If the reason for the change is just for the sake of changing it, then perhaps the houserule needs to be reconsidered.

If however, you are trying to fix what you view as a flaw in the system then the next question you need to consider is "What is the best way to accomplish my goal?" Answering this question may involve devising several different options and then evaluating them on how well they meet your goal, and how much of the rest of the system they effect. The more other rules that need to change to implement any given system the more unpredictable the final result will be.
Corriver's Lantern - a D&D blog featuring the Frozen Over Campaign Setting. I am not anonymous. I am Colin B. Schaeffer.
Why would I need more score abilities? I may because I am a crazy fanboy who is trying create a mixture of d20 and storytelling system. It will be a mad idea but it´s funny for me. Or it could be because a third party rpg publisher with open licence agreement would wish do that change to adapt a old rpg what it had been published in the past.

Some secondary abilities, like technique or percepcion, could be only racial bonus. If a gnome or a gobling have got +2 technique racial bonus it isn´t the end of the world.

I think I have found the solution. If modularity would allow a higher number of score abilities and to avoid powergaming and munchikin´s abuse, for the creation of PC two separated distributions of abilities points could be done. One for the classic six abilities, and the second for the optional ones. If a gamer wishs higher number for a secondary abilitie, he could exchange a abilitie from the first and from the second group.

Now my list is:

- Morale/courage

- Astuteness

- Fate/karma (for magic powers and more hitpoints like Con like cosmic bless).

- Technique would more useful for craftman nPCs, but I had thought martial and ki maneuvers or pre-defined movements like dance or playing music instruments, or slow movements like stealth.


I think percecion like racial bonus or.. it for all senses (sight, hearing and smell..) or be replace by astutenes, the ability to realise the near reality (here and now).

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius