Cavern of Souls communication issue

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A player has Cavern of Souls set to "Giant" and plays a Primeval Titan, tapping lands that include the Cavern and 2 Forests. He does not specify which of the Cavern's mana abilities was used. An opponent attempts to counter it. Dispute ensues.

I suspect this will not be an uncommon scenario in the near future, so how should this be ruled?



A player has Cavern of Souls set to "Giant" and plays a Primeval Titan, tapping lands that include the Cavern and 2 Forests. He does not specify which of the Cavern's mana abilities was used. An opponent attempts to counter it. Dispute ensues.

I suspect this will not be an uncommon scenario in the near future, so how should this be ruled?





I'd say the player casting the titan should say it (there are two mana abilities after all), if not, his opponnent should ask about it when it's cast. Both should be guilty in case of failing.

Or maybe it can be taken as a shortcut...

Not sure of anything, just giving my opinion. :P

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There's no default tournament shortcut for this either way, so the counter spell player would have to enquire which ability of the cavern was being used. Since there's no downside to using the colored-mana ability of the cavern, I can't imagine this scenario ever going the counter spell player's way.
All Generalizations are Bad
Most, if not all of the shortcuts that currently exist favor the idea that if it's very obvious what a player should be doing, then it's assumed that's what they're doing (for example, the whole "declare attackers" or "combat" shortcut always being assumed to be skipping to the declare attackers step, and a player wanting to act before this time acting in the beginning of combat step unless they state otherwise). So in this scenario, there's only extreme corner case issues why the Cavern player might opt to choose the colorless mana as opposed to the colored mana producing ability, and I can't imagine a judge would ever have a problem with this not having been explicitly stated.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
Most, if not all of the shortcuts that currently exist favor the idea that if it's very obvious what a player should be doing, then it's assumed that's what they're doing


I would say that statement runs counter to the spirit of the recent triggered ability rules change. Just because there is an obvious correct play does not necessarily mean that it should be assumed that that is the default action, nor should the opponent be forced to ensure that the correct play was made ( in this case by inquiring).

One could argue that the distinct lack of choosing a color which is required by Cavern's 2nd mana ability would indicate that that ability was not in fact the one used.

Yes, but in this case, the game wouldn't advance until the player made a choice.

If the card had some funky wording like, "When you activate this ability, Cavern of Souls generates colorless mana unless you choose a color..." then we'd have a default action. As this is not the case, it's safe to assume that the player made the choice that was better for him.

Of course, you could explicitly ask "Which ability are you activating?" but this pretty much gives away that you're planning something and is probably less advantageous than assuming he made the better play.
I don't think I can agree that the onus is on the opponent to resolve an ambiguity created by an effect he does not control.

But if that is the way you rule it, was there an infraction (Player Communication Violation?) and do you allow the opponent to rewind his counter?
There's more problems though than what's been brought up here.

A player has 1 Cavern and 5 other lands. He floats all 6 of them and casts a 3 mana creature spell. The opponent does nothing, assuming the Cavern was used on it. Then the AP casts a second 3 mana creature spell. Mana leak. Dispute over which spell Cavern is going into.

Or worse....two Caverns.

Someone has two Caverns in play, one naming Spirit and one naming Giant, with 6 other lands. First comes a Strangleroot Geist, with a tapped Cavern. No response. Then comes, surprise, another Strangleroot Geist, instead of a Titan. Opponent Dissipates. The Cavern player then says that he used the Giant Cavern to pay for the first Strangleroot Geist, which has already resolved. Dispute ensues.

So the problem here was that the active player didn't specify anything, that any "obvious assumption" about Cavern of Souls simply can't be made.

Long story short, if you don't specify that you are tapping Cavern of Souls (with a specified type) for a colored mana to pay for a creature spell of said type, when you cast said creature spell, then your creature spell can be countered. You're SOL; learn to use your own cards, etc., there's nothing difficult about saying "Tapping the Spirit Cavern of Souls for Green, playing a Strangleroot Geist".

At least, that's how it should be, in my opinion, unless judges want to run into this issue over and over and over again. You cannot assume that Cavern is being used for a spell primarily because the hand is a hidden zone.
in the case of Strangleroot Geist there is no communication issue since the mana cost doesn't include colorless mana.
so if the Cavern is used to cast it it can't be countered.
proud member of the 2011 community team
Pretty sure it can be ruled like priority. Unless your opponent specifically says  he's tapping it for colorless (/retaining priority), everyone should assume he possesses the basic level of cognition necessary to make his giant uncounterable (A fact further evidenced by the fact that his opponent is ostensibly breathing on his own and possesses the motor skills needed to play Magic). Doing otherwise is pretty much like being that jerk DM who's like "You forgot to buy arrows in the last town, so I guess your ranger is gonna die in this dungeon." And nobody likes that guy.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Or worse....two Caverns.

Someone has two Caverns in play, one naming Spirit and one naming Giant, with 6 other lands. First comes a Strangleroot Geist, with a tapped Cavern. No response. Then comes, surprise, another Strangleroot Geist, instead of a Titan. Opponent Dissipates. The Cavern player then says that he used the Giant Cavern to pay for the first Strangleroot Geist, which has already resolved. Dispute ensues.

So the problem here was that the active player didn't specify anything, that any "obvious assumption" about Cavern of Souls simply can't be made.

Long story short, if you don't specify that you are tapping Cavern of Souls (with a specified type) for a colored mana to pay for a creature spell of said type, when you cast said creature spell, then your creature spell can be countered. You're SOL; learn to use your own cards, etc., there's nothing difficult about saying "Tapping the Spirit Cavern of Souls for Green, playing a Strangleroot Geist".

At least, that's how it should be, in my opinion, unless judges want to run into this issue over and over and over again. You cannot assume that Cavern is being used for a spell primarily because the hand is a hidden zone.



in the case of Strangleroot Geist there is no communication issue since the mana cost doesn't include colorless mana.
so if the Cavern is used to cast it it can't be countered.



Lets say my opponent has 3 Forests and 2 Caverns, 1 with Spirits and 1 with Giants.  He taps and floats all five mana, so he now has either 3 Green mana and 2 colorless; 3 Green mana, 1 Green mana which can only be used to play Spirits and 1 colorless; 3 Green mana, 1 Green mana which can only be used to play Giants and 1 colorless; or 3 Green mana, 1 Green mana which can only be used to play Spirits and 1 Green mana which can only be used to play Giants.  I am working under the assumption it is a mono green deck, the colors are actually interchangable.  So, with those options, my opponent casts Strangleroot Geist.  Which Green mana did he use, the mana from the Forests or the Caverns?  Yes it does matter.  If he used the Forest mana, I can counter the spell.  If he used the Cavern mana, I cannot.  Why wouldn't he use the Cavern mana?  Maybe he has a second spirit he wants to cast after the Geist.
There's more problems though than what's been brought up here.

There is a problem with those scenarios: if a player floats mana, he or she needs to announce what's floating.

106.4a If a player passes priority (see rule 116) while there is mana in his or her mana pool, that player announces what mana is there. If any mana remains in a player's mana pool after he or she spends mana to pay a cost, that player announces what mana is still there.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

When activating an ability the player controlling that ability has a duty to declare that ability as it is activated.  Imagine Player 1  has a Royal Assassin (Tap to destror target tapped creature)  which is somehow enchanted with Power of Fire (Enchanted Creature has "tap to deal 1 damage to target creature or player).  When he taps the creature, he has to declare which tap ability is being used. 

It may appear obvious which option is preferable in a given situation (such as the target is an untapped creature), but that burden is on the player activating the ability. 

The controller of Cavern of Souls has a duty to declare which of the two modes, he is activating. 


It may appear obvious which option is preferable in a given situation (such as the target is an untapped creature), but that burden is on the player activating the ability. 


Bad example, that's not preferable, that's the only option he has (If we assume this is in a vacuum and he does indeed want to activate an ability targetting that creature).

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I can see where ambiguity might lie in these scenarios.

I think, at a professional or competitive level where advanced plays are expected, it should always be made explicit what is being done with what mana if there is any chance of ambiguity.

At a lower level, I think the assumption that the uncounterable mana was used is still safe as long as the player is not floating mana. It should always be clear which cavern is which, and if it's ever in question, ask.
If the player is floating mana, it should be made explicit when it's spent. If it's not made explicit, ask, because if you don't ask your opponent can easily try to take advantage of the ambiguity.

I don't mean to place the burden of resolving ambiguities on any specific player, but I feel that, even in cases where clarity is your opponent's responsibility, you should do all you can to avoid the ambiguity. If it comes down to it, the IPG outlines who was at fault and who should be penalized.
The controller of Cavern of Souls has a duty to declare which of the two modes, he is activating. 


This.  This is how you are supposed to play the game, announcing your actions.  One should never have to
assume what another player is doing.  If I have to assume what you are doing, I'll assume you don't know what you are doing.  I get shortcuts, use 'em all the time, but with something so delicate in the rules dept. it's best not to take any chances.
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
There is no doubt that properly announcing the ability and choosing the color of mana it produces is the technically correct way to play, but in practice players tap non-basic lands for ambiguous mana quite frequently and it is considered acceptable because it hardly ever matters.

The question is whether or not we should consider this case alone an infraction when we let all those other cases slide.
The question is whether or not we should consider this case alone an infraction when we let all those other cases slide.


In most other cases the out come will not affect one's ability to counterspell cards being cast.  But in this particular case it matters immensly.  People just need to announce properly what it is they are doing.  Not a big deal.
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin

It may appear obvious which option is preferable in a given situation (such as the target is an untapped creature), but that burden is on the player activating the ability. 


Bad example, that's not preferable, that's the only option he has (If we assume this is in a vacuum and he does indeed want to activate an ability targetting that creature).

I agree that the "destroy" ability is not going to work because there is no legal target.  I chose "preferable" because I believe it is possible to activate the "destroy" ability (thereby tapping the Assassin) and the ability would fizzle. 

That may matter if you want your Royal Assassin tapped without activating any other effects (like inflicting the damage from Power of Fire).  If opponent has a way to change the target of a spell of ability or redirect damage, you may not want to activate the "ping" ability so they don't redirect it back on itself.   Why would you want a tapped Assassin?  I'm sure there's a card that would make that relevant. 

The great thing about Magic is with over 10, 000 cards, there are near-limitless possibilities that make an otherwise "bad" decision into a "great" decision. 

Of course, I may be wrong if you cannot activate Royal Assassin's "destroy" without a legal target. 

When you activate an ability, you must declare all required targets.  You can't just choose to omit a target or try to target something illegal.  In order to activate Royal Assassin's ability, you must target a tapped creature.
But you can target a tapped indestrucible creature, so I think krbarlowe's point can stand.

It's impossible to tell whether your opponent is doing something counterintuitive to gain advantage, or if he is just making a mistake.

I believe the best practice is to always declare explicitly what you are doing. But how can we get our opponents to do the same?
I believe the best practice is to always declare explicitly what you are doing. But how can we get our opponents to do the same?


Yes, you are most correct.  A good backhand?!?!? LOL

When it comes to the morals and ethics of gaming, I believe one should take the high road.  Always announce what you are doing very explicitly.  Be the bigger person.  If someone is using shortcuts and fast play to gain an advantage that might be cheating, that's what judges are for.  If you're doing everything "by the book" you should do alright.  Truth will out, as they say.  And anyone who does need
to do shady plays to gain advantage is just a cheesed**k.  People that cheat at games are just weak, the only place one should cheat is in real life when life and death or money is involved. 
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
If only that would work

As it stands, I think we just need to deal with the fact that sometimes things are going to be ambiguous, and do whatever we can to clarify those things. Whether that's assuming your opponent is playing smart, or telling him, "No, your spell is countered. Next time tell me what you're doing when you do it," is up to the individual.
MTG is definatly full of ambiguous actions and interactions, but any player unwilling to slow it down and do it properly is being deceitful on purpose, which is cheating basically.

I had a point, but the train stopped with a jerk and I got off.   
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
And anyone who does need to do shady plays to gain advantage is just a cheesed**k.


 +1
Ok. So barring an [O] ruling on this, I think that in such situations I will rule that the lack of a verbal choice of mana color when tapping the land unambiguously indicates that the land is being tapped for the first mana ability unless the mana cost of the creature spell being cast necessarily implies the use of the second ability.
Ok. So barring an [O] ruling on this, I think that in such situations I will rule that the lack of a verbal choice of mana color when tapping the land unambiguously indicates that the land is being tapped for the first mana ability unless the mana cost of the creature spell being cast necessarily implies the use of the second ability.


Pretty much!
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
Ya, insert typical creature with a colorless cost instead of strangleroot. Had RG on my mind, strangleroot probably not the best example. So I agree with this-

Ok. So barring an [O] ruling on this, I think that in such situations I will rule that the lack of a verbal choice of mana color when tapping the land unambiguously indicates that the land is being tapped for the first mana ability unless the mana cost of the creature spell being cast necessarily implies the use of the second ability.

 And anyone who does need
to do shady plays to gain advantage is just a cheesed**k.  


Taking advantage of the fact that your opponent didn't explicitly say that he was trying to win the game in order to be able to counter his wincon sounds pretty shady to me...

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
A player has Cavern of Souls set to "Giant" and plays a Primeval Titan, tapping lands that include the Cavern and 2 Forests. He does not specify which of the Cavern's mana abilities was used. An opponent attempts to counter it. Dispute ensues.

I suspect this will not be an uncommon scenario in the near future, so how should this be ruled?

Easy question, easy answer: it depends.

If I get the sense that the player forgot about his land's ability to make his spell uncounterable and only remembered it after you tried to counter it, he'll be "SOL", as someone so eloquently put it. If, however, I get the sense that he wass very well aware of the ability all the time and "of course" assumed that he was using that ability, I'll rule that we're playing Magic: The Gathering, not Magic: The Rules-Lawyering. The player will get a rather stern look and a stern request to be more clear in the future, though.

Other things that might factor into the ruling: How has the Cavern been used before in this match? Has the player until now announced which ability he was using? If so, in what way?

A player has 1 Cavern and 5 other lands. He floats all 6 of them and casts a 3 mana creature spell. The opponent does nothing, assuming the Cavern was used on it. Then the AP casts a second 3 mana creature spell. Mana leak. Dispute over which spell Cavern is going into.

Here I'll probably put the onus on the AP. It's his cards that are causing the confusion, and unlike the OP's scenario (which I quoted above), there's no single obviously correct choice. It's the AP's cards, so it's on him (or at least more so than on his opponent) to make it clear what's happening. Unless he has a very compelling reason why he would float the Cavern mana until his second spell, I'll probably rule that he used it on the first spell.
And if I get the feeling that he was being unclear intentionally so he could later benefit by claiming he used the mana on just the spell that he needed it on against the counterspell, then we're probably headed for an uncomfortable talk with the head judge, and potentially an early exit from the tournament for the player, and paperwork for the judges.

Assuming we're not headed into DQ-land, I'll sternly reqeust that the player be more clear in the future, and if he doesn't clean up his play, he'll probably run into Unsporting Conduct Game Losses rather quickly.

Or worse....two Caverns.

Someone has two Caverns in play, one naming Spirit and one naming Giant, with 6 other lands. First comes a Strangleroot Geist, with a tapped Cavern. No response. Then comes, surprise, another Strangleroot Geist, instead of a Titan. Opponent Dissipates. The Cavern player then says that he used the Giant Cavern to pay for the first Strangleroot Geist, which has already resolved. Dispute ensues.

Same answer as above.

DCI Lvl 2 Judge

Taking advantage of the fact that your opponent didn't explicitly say that he was trying to win the game in order to be able to counter his wincon sounds pretty shady to me...


Baiting counterspells on uncounterable spells that you "forgot" to mention are uncounterable is also pretty shady.

Moral: Don't leave it up to the judges.




If your opponent controls a Cavern of Souls and you run counterspells, you should pay attention to whether or not they use it to cast appropriately-typed spells.  If they do, don't waste your counterspell.

If they make it genuinely unclear that they're using a Cavern for mana (e.g. they keep all their lands in one pile and just tap some number of them), that's a problem.  But if you register that they're using a Cavern and try to counter the spell on the basis that they didn't explicitly state their no-brainer decision to use the last ability, that's not "baiting".
Whether or not you run Counterspells, you should ask «which mana ability are you using» the first few times they tap the Cavern; this way, they should learn the habit of telling out loud.

Always bluff that you have some response in Hand; keep them on their toes.

It's not Logic, it's Magic!

Judges can also help themselves out by reminding players (at least early in AVR's existence) that communication is VITAL in tournaments, particularly when dealing with Miracle and Cavern of Souls and of course all other aspects of the game.

Sean Stackhouse Level Two Judge (Yay!) Maine

But if you register that they're using a Cavern and try to counter the spell on the basis that they didn't explicitly state their no-brainer decision to use the last ability, that's not "baiting".


That's not baiting in your opinion.

I was under the impression that if a given game state can be explained by describing a sequence of actions that does not include any infractions, then that is the explanation that the judge should accept. Wasn't that the original philosophy behind allowing the ommision of "may" triggers?

Failing to choose a color when activating the Cavern's second mana ability is an infraction, therefore if it is possible that the first mana ability could have been used in casting that spell, I'm going to assume that it was and issue no penalty.

Did we ever get consensus on the other player communication issue?

I tap two Swamps for mana then cast Doom Blade targeting your black creature.

You respond saying "black creature" so I rewind, but do I get to untap the Swamps?

I tapped them prior to announcing the spell.

Can I untap them by saying that it was out-of-order sequencing?

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

 

Taking offers on my set of unopened limited edition full art judge foil basic lands, message me if interested.
 

I'd always allow that if you cast Doom Blade at me, but I wouldn't know what to expect if I made the same mistake myself. I'd probably try to untap them because, yeah, it was clearly out-of-order sequencing. If my opponent then tried to tell me that I don't get to untap the swamps, I'd be rather upset, but I'd leave the swamps tapped and let it go.

It's for this reason that I've made a habit of placing my card down on the table before tapping any mana.
Did we ever get consensus on the other player communication issue?

I tap two Swamps for mana then cast Doom Blade targeting your black creature.

You respond saying "black creature" so I rewind, but do I get to untap the Swamps?

I tapped them prior to announcing the spell.

Can I untap them by saying that it was out-of-order sequencing?


I'd personally let you untap those Swamps.  One should always be a gentleman when playing.
Manners and Class go a long way.  

STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin

Failing to choose a color when activating the Cavern's second mana ability is an infraction, therefore if it is possible that the first mana ability could have been used in casting that spell, I'm going to assume that it was and issue no penalty.



The player using the cavern ostensibly possesses enough survival instinct to breathe, and he's running cavern of souls over Shimmering Grotto, so I think it's safe to assume he wants the card for it's second ability.
Like honestly if I lost a game to this, I'd prolly punch somebody, not so much because of the loss but because of how much fun the sheer levels of jerkery had sucked out of the room (Well, that or go the passive agressive route and for every future game I played with them insist that they decided to scoop every turn they didn't explicitly tell me they still wanted to win, citing this as precedent).
To put it in perspective;
[sblock=the jerkometer]
1- Pact trigger loss (Kind of a jerk move, but they did technically forget and I guess somebody might care about winning a children's card game enough to claim the Angel's Grace they just topdecked was actually in their hand all along, so whatevs).
.
.
.
.
.
.

8- Deliberately obfuscating whether or not you're blocking for a minute and a half, then claiming your opponent missed their chance to draw cards with Infiltration lens because they already put their Blight Mamba and Painsmith in the yard.
.
10- Insisting your opponent wanted you to counter their wincon in the face of a massive body of evidence to the contrary (They tapped the uncounterable land, they didn't say that they were tapping it for colorless, they possess basic reasoning skills, they presumably want to win the game given that they haven't just scooped) 
11- Stating "Declare attacks," and then trying to move equipment after your opponent taps your guy, claiming they were responding to entering the combat phase and you were therefore still in the main phase (Come to think of it, the fact that this actually happened to me might be why DotP bugs me so much, but I digress).

 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
11 is actually covered by the magic tournament rules. The default shortcut is to respond during the declare attackers step.

I don't really understand the situation you laid out in 8. #1 is very legitimate, ruleswise.
All Generalizations are Bad
@ RPJesus, firstly, even people in comas can breath, so I wouldn't use THAT as any kind of measuring stick.

I don't think the posters here are talking about simple scenarios.  If you have your land set to elves and you cast an elf, cool no big.  But say you have 2 plus  Cavern of Souls set to different types, you float a bunch of mana without announcing what, and start dropping a bunch of spells.  Things could get tricky, and all anyone here is saying is that if people just announced what they were doing, there'd be little issue.
STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
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