Food Chain Faeries

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Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Progenitus sucks pretty hard here.  You have to generate only blue to create the infinite loop, so you can't cast him.  Instead, just use 4x Emrakul.

Dream Theif definitely can go.

I understand that you want to keep the Faeries, but they're all pretty bad except Vendilion Clique.  Not only that, but your mana base gets pretty bad by having the third color just for Blitterblossom.  Instead, I'd run more counters (Daze or Counterspell mostly), plus another dig spell (Ponder).  I'd also up the Intuition count to the full 4-of.

Really, the way I'd envision this deck working best is to basically be Mono-Blue Control, splashing green just to play Food Chain.
Progenitus sucks pretty hard here.  You have to generate only blue to create the infinite loop, so you can't cast him.  Instead, just use 4x Emrakul.

Dream Theif definitely can go.

I understand that you want to keep the Faeries, but they're all pretty bad except Vendilion Clique.  Not only that, but your mana base gets pretty bad by having the third color just for Blitterblossom.  Instead, I'd run more counters (Daze or Counterspell mostly), plus another dig spell (Ponder).  I'd also up the Intuition count to the full 4-of.

Really, the way I'd envision this deck working best is to basically be Mono-Blue Control, splashing green just to play Food Chain.



While I agree with 4 Emrakul, Misthollow+Food Chain is infinite mana of all colors. 

Typically Food Chain decks have lots of cantrip creatures, and/or Glimpse of Nature. I'd drop the tribal synergy for just a u/g Food Chain combo deck. You need creatures that provide card advantage, to offset the card disadvantage of Food Chain.

I'd go something like...

4 Food Chain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
3x Glimpse of Nature

3x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Misthollow Griffin
4x Mulldrifter
3x Court Hussar
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Aethersnipe

4x Cavern of Souls (Hint: Griffin)
4x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Island
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Forest
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!" "Any time doing the right thing is funny as hell, it's probably Chaotic Good." IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2jcu9fs.png)
You're right on the colors thing.  I wasn't thinking about it that much.  Still, Progenitus could just be in the board to bring in if you suspect someone is boarding in Surgical Extractions or Extripates to keep you from using Intuition as a tutor.

I think you really want to have the full 4-of for Emrakuls.  Given that it's the kill condition, you want to be able to find it extremely often.  Sure, you can tutor them at will with Intuition, but if you're digging with other spells, you need to find it ASAP.

I don't like Cavern of Souls much in this list.  You only get the uncounterable Griffin the first time it's cast, but not for later castings off Food Chain.  The combo is still weak to counter magic at that point, and if you need counter magic backup anyways, why not make them waste it earlier when it's easier to recover from it?

I'm convinced that this list wants some Ponders.  Considering you can't even get off the ground until you have all 3 pieces of the combo (Food Chain, Misthollow Griffin, Emrakul/Glimpse or Intuition instead of any one part), finding those pieces should be a very high priority.  You could probably sub in Ponders for Aethersnipe (a nice board card) and a couple lands (21 seems high, especially with an infinite mana combo).
I'd hate having 2 Emmy's stuck in the opener. Glimpse lets you dig to it, and Intuition can tutor it. I think 3 is the proper number. 

Perhaps you're right about the Cavern, and the landcount. Ponder could fit nicely over Aethersnipe. Although a super ritual that bounces a permanent is pretty damn good.

-4 Cavern of Souls
-2 Aethersnipe

+2 Island 
+4 Ponder 
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!" "Any time doing the right thing is funny as hell, it's probably Chaotic Good." IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2jcu9fs.png)
Proggy seems pretty important. I'm seeing maindeck Extractions everywhere, and he pitches to Force and diversifies my wincons without sacrificing much, which is always worth it in the same way that diversifying fetches is strictly better. I may swap the numbers, however.

I'm also considering BSC over Proggy; he doesn't pitch, can be chumped, and is vulnerable to more answers, but is otherwise identical and finishes in one hit. Maybe 3 Emmys and 1-1 on them?

The Faeries aren't there to be Tribal, though I do like Tribal. Bitterblossom is ramp, protection, and aggro all at once. Spellstutter is a counterspell to protect me that also happens to Chain (and can be Chained into), and Clique works similarly.

Evoke is pretty sweet, especially Mulldrifter.

Thinking the following:

-1 Mistbind
-1 Land

To get to 60, then

-2 Dream Thief
-2 Mystic Snake (pretty rough trying to Chain into it)
-1 Land

+3 Glimpse
+2 Mulldrifter


 Scryb Ranger is definitely at least sideboard worthy, even if you aren't going Faeries. Cloud of Faeries is interesting, but I'm not sure it's worthy of a slot.

EDIT: Played my first game. Turn 2 Chain, Turn 3 Brainstorm, Clique, Misthollow Griffin into Emrakul with double Force backup. Opponent kicked me out of the game. 
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Sounds like a godhand. Nice though.
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!" "Any time doing the right thing is funny as hell, it's probably Chaotic Good." IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2jcu9fs.png)
And probably not against a high quality deck/oppenent judging from the rage-boot...

@Tequilasauras:  Aethersnipe is fine, but the ritual aspect of it isn't that relevant.  You can't generate enough mana to go off with it unless you also have a Griffin in your hand.  In which case, you could just go off with the Griffin instead.  Of course, that's assuming you did the following (there might be a sequence I can't think of that Aethersnipe helps with):  T1 Noble, T2 Food Chain, T3 Land.

@Serene Chaos:  No one main decks Surgical Extractions in real life.  It shouldn't be much of concern.  I don't think it's worth the 3 extra slots (because of Intuition) you'd need to protect against it. 

I don't like Blightsteel Colossus over Progenitus.  Sure, BSC is a 1-turn kill, but it can be removed easily by the kind of removal most every Legacy deck packs (Swords to Plowshares).  The protection is much more relevant, as it will basically always stick.  Nothing would sting more than comboing off into a BSC, then losing to their Swords.

How exactly is Bitterblossom ramp?  Sure, you can exile the one faerie you created with Food Chain for 1 mana, but it's not exactly helping.  This isn't the kind of deck where you just want to dump your hand on to the table.  Plus, the life loss can be very relevant in a format of fetch lands and burn.

I understand that the Faerie element offers more control, but this list isn't really a control deck.  It's combo.  Since the most important part of playing combo is to find your pieces as soon as possible, having all these extra slots taken over by control cards is unnecessary and dilutes the deck.  It doesn't make you more resistant to hate or make your deck more consistent.  Playing faeries that counter spells gives you one more draw step to find your combo pieces.  Playing Ponder digs you 4 cards (3 off the top, 1 after shuffle), Court Hussar digs you 3 and Mulldrifter digs you 2.  All of those not only dig you deeper than a counter Faerie, and can be even more relevant with a Glimpse.

I think the effects you're looking for in the faeries are much better out of the sideboard.  V Clique gets rid of their hate cards, Spellstutter could just be more counters, and Mistbind is just bad (free counterspells being in the format and all).

Scryb Ranger shouldn't be in your sideboard.  What purpose would it serve?  You don't have creatures that need to be untapped unlike Elves Combo or Maverick, and you don't need the mana ramping.  Sure, in theory it could help you go off one turn earlier, but you need to have a Hierarch in play, and have missed your thrid land drop.  The game would look something like this:  T1 Hierarch, T2 Food Chain, T3 Ranger, bounce Forest, sac to Food Chain, win game.  That doesn't protect you from any kind of hate (so it doesn't fit in the board) and it doesn't accelerate you any faster than another mana creature would.  It just doesn't make any sense.
And probably not against a high quality deck/oppenent judging from the rage-boot...



Well, it was a Maverick deck that opened with turn 1 Diamond, Goyf, turn 2 Goyf with a KotR in hand when I combo'd out. I find that the more serious Legacy players are usually the ones more likely to ragequit.




@Serene Chaos:  No one main decks Surgical Extractions in real life.  It shouldn't be much of concern.  I don't think it's worth the 3 extra slots (because of Intuition) you'd need to protect against it.  



Sorry, I should've specified, I didn't mean in online testing. I meant at the  SCG 5k and weekly events I attend. Yes, they do maindeck Extraction. Sorry to surprise you.

I don't like Blightsteel Colossus over Progenitus.  Sure, BSC is a 1-turn kill, but it can be removed easily by the kind of removal most every Legacy deck packs (Swords to Plowshares).  The protection is much more relevant, as it will basically always stick.  Nothing would sting more than comboing off into a BSC, then losing to their Swords.



I mentioned that already, and Swords is only one card, that they might have one of, maybe.

How exactly is Bitterblossom ramp?  Sure, you can exile the one faerie you created with Food Chain for 1 mana



That's the definition of ramp....So yeah, you answered your own question there.

I understand that the Faerie element offers more control, but this list isn't really a control deck.  It's combo.



And as a combo deck, it needs elements of control to protect itself. It doesn't dilute the deck, it's how combo decks work. 

Since the most important part of playing combo is to find your pieces as soon as possible,



And protecting those pieces. Trust me, I play quite a lot of combo.

having all these extra slots taken over by control cards is unnecessary and dilutes the deck.  It doesn't make you more resistant to hate or make your deck more consistent.  Playing faeries that counter spells gives you one more draw step to find your combo pieces.  Playing Ponder digs you 4 cards (3 off the top, 1 after shuffle), Court Hussar digs you 3 and Mulldrifter digs you 2.  All of those not only dig you deeper than a counter Faerie, and can be even more relevant with a Glimpse.



Spellstutter doesn't give me another draw step. You're not understanding how combo decks use counterspells. And yes, they do use counterspells.

I think the effects you're looking for in the faeries are much better out of the sideboard.  V Clique gets rid of their hate cards, Spellstutter could just be more counters, and Mistbind is just bad (free counterspells being in the format and all).



Clique also draws you a card and gives you an aggressive body when you're on the aggro plan. And flashes in to block. Mistbind has plenty of tricks, and is worth using, but I have cut it in my build. Hint: Just because free counters exist, doesn't make counter-hating regular counterspells irrelevant. It's still worth doing.

Scryb Ranger shouldn't be in your sideboard.  What purpose would it serve?  You don't have creatures that need to be untapped unlike Elves Combo or Maverick, and you don't need the mana ramping.  Sure, in theory it could help you go off one turn earlier, but you need to have a Hierarch in play, and have missed your thrid land drop.  The game would look something like this:  T1 Hierarch, T2 Food Chain, T3 Ranger, bounce Forest, sac to Food Chain, win game.  That doesn't protect you from any kind of hate (so it doesn't fit in the board) and it doesn't accelerate you any faster than another mana creature would.  It just doesn't make any sense.



It allows me to combo off with 2 lands and no Noble. It ramps me a lot, which this deck loves. It smooths my land drops in a deck with 17-19 lands. It flashes in to block Delvers and opposing Cliques. And it's great against Jace. And it can save your lands from Wasteland. And it's a flying body in a deck with a backup aggro plan. Flash is even non-trivial with Food Chain, since chaining Faeries while tapped out for Spellstutter/Clique shenanigans is relevant.

I get the feeling you don't really look at interactions and meta before commenting. You make relevant points, but you miss obvious interactions as well as trickier ones, and ignore meta calls like Scryb Ranger and anti-Extraction tech.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
While I agree with a lot of points, Serene, I also agree with MadAdmiral.

Maindeck Extraction is jank. I don't know who would play it, or why. It's pretty awful in almost every matchup. If your meta has it, you've got some awful players. Go beat them with a real deck until they stop playing bad cards.

Blightsteel is also not worth it here. You don't want to be forced to lose because of STP, one of the most common cards in Legacy. Not even Show and Tell decks run it. It's just not the finisher for Legacy. If you need a backup plan, Progenitus is better than Blightsteel. Both will very likely kill in 2 hits, so infect is pretty much moot.

I'd focus your sideboard slots on more important things than blocking Delver and Clique. Any deck playing these cards is playing counterspells, which are the real problem. Taking 3 is not an issue; you're running combo. Who cares if you can chump block a 3/x? If they counter your combo and bury you under tempo/card advantage, you're done. I'd play Misdirection over Scryb Ranger any day of the week.

I feel you're being too defensive of your original ideas without thinking about it empirically. You clearly have some sub-par card choices at the moment, and we're trying to help. I'd like to see Food Chain as a good deck, but Faeries just isn't the shell for it.
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!" "Any time doing the right thing is funny as hell, it's probably Chaotic Good." IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2jcu9fs.png)
Way to be a **** to one of the people tryin to help you.  Great way to encourage people to offer advice...

And probably not against a high quality deck/oppenent judging from the rage-boot...



Well, it was a Maverick deck that opened with turn 1 Diamond, Goyf, turn 2 Goyf with a KotR in hand when I combo'd out. I find that the more serious Legacy players are usually the ones more likely to ragequit.[/quote

I don't see maindeck Diamond actually being good in Maverick.  Sounds like a pet deck to me.  As for the rage quitting, I don't think that's the case.  Most serious players don't rage quit because they want to see how their deck works against anything they could see.

Sorry, I should've specified, I didn't mean in online testing. I meant at the  SCG 5k and weekly events I attend. Yes, they do maindeck Extraction. Sorry to surprise you.



Seems real bad.  And untrue.  A search on StarCityGames shows that none of the top 25 decks that played Extraction had it main deck.  There is no reason someone should be playing Extraction main deck.  Unless the metagame where you are is 50% Dredge and Reanimator, I find it hard to believe.

I mentioned that already, and Swords is only one card, that they might have one of, maybe.



Just one card?  It's the preferred removal spell of Legacy.  If a deck is playing white, they're probably playing 4x Swords (and probably have some number of Path to Exile in the board too).  Every white deck listed on StarCityGames had Swords as a 4-of.  It's just that good.  Are you sure I'm the one out of touch with the metagame?

That's the definition of ramp....So yeah, you answered your own question there.



My point is that you don't have any reason to ramp from it.  If you need ramp, play more mana creatures.  Or lands.  It's not like you have to power out something huge.  You just have to get to 4 mana.

And as a combo deck, it needs elements of control to protect itself. It doesn't dilute the deck, it's how combo decks work.



It dilutes the deck.  A combo deck does need protection, but you already have that in Force of Will (and other free counters).  If the slot doesn't protect the combo (and it doesn't since it costs mana), doesn't dig for the combo pieces or isn't part of the combo, it doesn't belong.  By definition, the deck is diluted by any card that isn't part of it's game plan.

Spellstutter doesn't give me another draw step. You're not understanding how combo decks use counterspells. And yes, they do use counterspells.



Oh, I understand how combo decks use counterspells.  Spellstutter isn't giving you much protection.  First, you have to devote slots to faeries to make it worthwhile.  Second, you have to have played the faeries out (wasting time).  Why not just play some better/free counters like Daze, Pact, Spell Pierce or such?

The reason why I said that it gives you another draw step is that with such an unfocused (and bad) plan, you would be using the creature-counterspells to slow your opponent down more often than not.

Clique also draws you a card and gives you an aggressive body when you're on the aggro plan. And flashes in to block. Mistbind has plenty of tricks, and is worth using, but I have cut it in my build. Hint: Just because free counters exist, doesn't make counter-hating regular counterspells irrelevant. It's still worth doing.



You shouldn't ever need to be on the aggro plan.  Ever.  If you are, it's post board, and you got hated out of your gameplan.  In which case, having the Clique in the board is a better choice, which I recommended.  That way, you can use it to deal with your opponent's hate or failing that, beat down.  And Cliquing yourself is very bad.  It's a last ditch effort to win a game you have no business winning.

It allows me to combo off with 2 lands and no Noble. It ramps me a lot, which this deck loves. It smooths my land drops in a deck with 17-19 lands. It flashes in to block Delvers and opposing Cliques. And it's great against Jace. And it can save your lands from Wasteland. And it's a flying body in a deck with a backup aggro plan. Flash is even non-trivial with Food Chain, since chaining Faeries while tapped out for Spellstutter/Clique shenanigans is relevant.



Ranger doesn't let you combo off 2 lands and no Noble.  At least not without another creature in hand or on the board.  A Ranger and two lands creates 3 mana, Food Chain puts you to 0 floating.  Then, you get 3 mana off exiling the Ranger.  Misthollow Griffin costs 4.  You need one more mana to combo off.  Or another untap phase.

Also, this deck doesn't love ramp past turn 1 or 2.  You want to power out Food Chain as early as possible, but given that you can do that off mana creatures, which happens to also be the way you ramp after getting Food Chain out.  Of course, if you wanted to play it as a ramp deck, you need a few more 1-drop mana creatures (so you always hit one), several more 2-drops (again, so you always have one) and then nothing over 4 CMC (other than your win conditions).  That would be how you build a regular Food Chain deck.

Your original list suggested you wanted it to be more of a combo/control deck (i.e. you counter a lot, then power out the combo).  The list Tequilasaurus posted does that better because it's mana base is better and the creature/control package is more consistent.
Way to be a **** to one of the people tryin to help you.  Great way to encourage people to offer advice...



I wasn't trying to be a jerk, just to present my counter arguments. If I came across stonger then I meant to, I am very sorry.

Once again you've made some very good points, so the only things I'll correct are misunderstandings of what I meant.

Sorry, I should've specified, I didn't mean in online testing. I meant at the  SCG 5k and weekly events I attend. Yes, they do maindeck Extraction. Sorry to surprise you.



Seems real bad.  And untrue.  A search on StarCityGames shows that none of the top 25 decks that played Extraction had it main deck.  There is no reason someone should be playing Extraction main deck.  Unless the metagame where you are is 50% Dredge and Reanimator, I find it hard to believe.



To prevent further misunderstanding: You said nobody maindecked it. I said people in my meta do. I didn't say it was good, just that people do it, enough that I feel it's worth meta-ing against.

I mentioned that already, and Swords is only one card, that they might have one of, maybe.



Just one card?  It's the preferred removal spell of Legacy.  If a deck is playing white, they're probably playing 4x Swords (and probably have some number of Path to Exile in the board too).  Every white deck listed on StarCityGames had Swords as a 4-of.  It's just that good.  Are you sure I'm the one out of touch with the metagame?



My point was not that it was just an OK card or that it isn't heavily run. My point was that it was one card in their deck, and hence they don't always have it. It's a 4-of in a lot of Vintage decks as well, and yet Reanimator-->Iona, Tinker-->Blightsteel, and Oath-->Random non-Emmy/Proggy target are still nearly universal wincons, because they are good and the opponent doesn't always have StP.


And as a combo deck, it needs elements of control to protect itself. It doesn't dilute the deck, it's how combo decks work.



It dilutes the deck.  A combo deck does need protection, but you already have that in Force of Will (and other free counters).  If the slot doesn't protect the combo (and it doesn't since it costs mana), doesn't dig for the combo pieces or isn't part of the combo, it doesn't belong.  By definition, the deck is diluted by any card that isn't part of it's game plan.



Autumn's Veil in Green combo (Elves and Cheeri0s), Spell Pierce in Blue combo, Silence/Chant in Tendrils. Frequently turn 1 Therapy in Dredge. Not to mention Grudge and Ray in Dredge. Combo decks use protection, sometimes protection that costs mana, even mid-combo. I chose Sprite because I can use it for multiple things. Misdirection may be an acceptable sub.

I apologise if this counterpoint stretches my "clearing up misunderstandings" statement.

Ranger doesn't let you combo off 2 lands and no Noble.  At least not without another creature in hand or on the board.  A Ranger and two lands creates 3 mana, Food Chain puts you to 0 floating.  Then, you get 3 mana off exiling the Ranger.  Misthollow Griffin costs 4.  You need one more mana to combo off.  Or another untap phase.



That's what I meant.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
The Extraction point is fine.  If people play it maindeck, I'd probably just play more counters to get around it.  Unless that's really common, I don't think its worth wasting 3 slots to avoid it.

The main point with StP is that you shouldn't leave yourself open to losing to it if you don't have.  Progenitus is just as good of a win condition as BSC, without being unnecessarily exposed to removal.

Having to use mana for protection isn't necessarily bad, but if you have the option of playing spells that do not cost mana, you probably should.  If you consider the points at which your combo is vulnerable (casting Food Chain, the first and second casting of Griffin), it's at those points in the game that you likely won't have extra mana available to spend on protecting the combo.  So instead of having protection spells that are only relevant when they don't matter, you should use those slots on spells that will always be useful.  Hence, playing Force of Wills, Dazes and very cheap counters (like Spell Pierce).

Having to wait to untap with Scryb Ranger isn't ideal.  If you played the Ranger over more mana creatures, you waste a turn setting up.  For example, let's say you start with a Ranger and all the necessary combo pieces.  Here's how it plays out:  T1 land.  T2 land, EOT Ranger.  T3 float 2, return land, play land, Food Chain.  T4 float mana, return land, play land, exile Ranger, Griffin, combo out.  However, if you had a mana creature instead, this is the series of plays:  T1 land, mana creature.  T2 land, play Food Chain.  T3 float 3 mana, exile creature, Griffin, combo out.

Basically, if you replaced the slots you dedicated to the Ranger, you'd not only have more consistent draws, but you'd also be able to win more often on turn 3.
Why are you all running multiple Emrakul when Fierce Empath and Fauna Shaman exist?  And hey, they can actually do something before you combo, unlike that clunky 15 mana spaghetti monster you're holding.

You know what's better than playing counterspells in Food Chain decks? Playing creatures. I don't see the point in being exclusively combo oriented if you're going to do it worse than TES or ANT or High Tide. You have less protection, less draw, and fewer tutors. You need to have some strategic edge to explain why you chose the particular combo you've selected. When it's Food Chain, that reason is because you play an excessive number of creatures, and have solid aggro backup in case your combo is disrupted. @MadAdmiral, Food Chain decks do rely on aggro occasionally, even game one. If you don't think so, you haven't played them before. I mean, one of the big three decks (RUG) is a nasty matchup and the combo will fail most of the time against them.

Anyways, Griffin has improved the deck, that's for sure. Although, he should only supplement an already strong foundation. He's basically this deck's "oops, I win" button. You don't want to focus the deck strictly on comboing out with him, because you're harshly limiting yourself with that direction. Still, he can, and should, be maxed out so you can just randomly win.

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest

4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Fierce Empath
4 Vengevine
4 Misthollow Griffin
Mulldrifter
1 Aethersnipe
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Look at that. You can play Griffin and have your deck not suck when you don't resolve him.

Kozilek is still in there because you won't always get the Griffin kill. This version can still play a good ol' fashioned FC strategy, where you eat half a dozen creatures (or more) and win. It can also just Griffin kill them. It can also go unrelenting aggro with Vengevine.

This is my take as a Food Chain player for over a year. 
So glad igri is back!

And yeah, I'll have to agree with him. Since you guys are trying to play a combo deck, you should be careful and try not to make it linear, so this creature-based list seems awesome. Especially the synergy between Vengevine and Chain is really sweet.

However, what worries me is that this combo deck's fizzle will be both a bad hand without Food Chain and maybe its 13 over-4-cmc creatures. Food Chain is to be expected, but I was wondering if we could cut some big dudes to add extra speed or consistency.

So tempted to try this though.
Could Skyshroud Cutter have a place here as "ramp?"  When you're talking Emrakul the 5 life makes no difference, and he can let you combo out as early as turn 2 with a perfect hand.  Turn 1 Forest, Bird/Noble; turn 2 land, Chain, free Cutter and go off.
Especially the synergy between Vengevine and Chain is really sweet.


Just wanted to point out that there's no synergy between Vengevine and Food Chain - the creatures are exiled from Food Chain, not dumped into the 'yard.
What about something like Tombstalker or Artisan of Kozilek to return Griffins to where you want them? Having your combo Force'd shouldn't stop you with one of these, although they're a tad difficult to chain to.
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!" "Any time doing the right thing is funny as hell, it's probably Chaotic Good." IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2jcu9fs.png)
Especially the synergy between Vengevine and Chain is really sweet.


Just wanted to point out that there's no synergy between Vengevine and Food Chain - the creatures are exiled from Food Chain, not dumped into the 'yard.

No, I meant that in this deck, you can play a ton of creatures quickly, which means that Vengevine, even if it gets destroyed, it will eventually come back and then be able to use it. Since the plan is to also be able to go aggro even if you don't draw Food Chain, it still gives you multiple choices in a way. Yeah, synergy was the wrong word, choice was the correct one. I think. Damn, I need some coffee.
I'm not sure if those Rangers should be Symbiotes, so you have a continuous draw engine. Also, Coiling Oracle might be worth considering. I'm not really testing this list, just providing options.

Yeah, the point is you can eat Vengevine for five free mana, while it simultaneously provides you with an excellent aggro back up that will straight up beat RUG, your worst matchup. I don't know how easy it would be to get an active Shaman against them anymore, or get to four mana, but that used to be my plan against them (and BUG, or any non-StP deck with counters). That's another reason Symbiote is probably good here: save that Shaman.

You can play ramp creatures, like Cutter, but you might as well make them threats in addition to being mana spikers. Deranged Hermit is the most famous. The reason I mention Hermit is the same reason he was included in those Nic Fit decks: he's a game-winner on his own. Either you ramp from five to 10 mana, or you suddenly go aggro with bears and other dorks you cast. Ultimately, he was cut from my old list because Vengevine was harder for the opponent to deal with, and the vines provided a bigger boost in mana when you cheat even one into play.

With a combo like this, you have to play a transformational sideboard because it's easily disrupted. Play Jittes, Sowers (maybe), creatures that kill artifacts and enchantments, etc. You kinda become an old Survival of the Fittest deck with creatures that answer anything. [CARD]Phyrexian Revoker[/card] was also a staple of my board in the past.

Aim to beat UW, RUG, and Maverick then let us know what that looks like. I just spewed out a list quickly.

I almost forgot to mention, but there has been discussion of building this deck with Imperial Recruiter and Phantasmal Image. (Note: the Image will exile for four mana, not three, after it has copied Recruiter.) With a Food Chain in play and three mana, you can do this:

Cast Recruiter A fetching Recruiter B. Eat Recruiter A (four red mana).
Cast Recruiter B fetching Recruiter C. Eat Recruiter B (five red mana).
Cast Recruiter C fetching Recruiter D. Eat Recuiter C (two red mana, four blue mana).
Cast Recuiter D fetching Image A (three blue mana).
Cast Image A copying Recruiter D fetching Image B. Eat Image A (five blue mana).
Cast Image B copying Recruiter D fetching Image C. Eat Image B (seven blue mana).
Cast Image C copying Recruiter D fetching Image D. Eat Image C (nine blue mana). 
Cast Image D copying Recruiter D fetching Fierce Empath. Eat Image D (seven blue mana, four green mana). 
Cast Fierce Empath fetching Emrakul. Eat Fierce Empath (11 blue mana, one green mana).
Eat Recruiter D (15 blue mana, one green mana).
Cast Emrakul (one green mana). Time Walk. Win.
summoner's pact seems way better than fauna shaman. It nets you mana (obivous), draw (don't know what strikes your fancy ... regal force? nantuko cultivator? primordial sage?) and fierce empath (doubleplusgood). Paying the 4 mana upkeep shouldn't be an issue at all.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
No way is Summoner's Pact better than Fauna Shaman. It can't find Griffin. It doesn't have any synergy with Vengevine or Quirion Ranger either. If I were to use any non-creature tutor, it'd be Chord of Calling.

Extract is an interesting card here. It's four additional copies of Griffin for one mana.

Edit:
Spoils of the Vault naming Food Chain is also pretty hot tech. If you exile a Griffin, you just tutored both pieces of the combo for one mana. 
Pact worked very well though when I did my tinkering with food chain a few years ago. Like I said, it nets you mana, draw and even win condition (working with fierce empath). It works early to mid combo too. Chord of calling is very weak in comparison. It only works when you are in an awesome position (lots and lots of mana) anyway.

Haha, yes, extract is a funny little trick! Spoils should work well too.

Fauna shaman is very slow and it always has a bullseye on it. I've played the card lots of times, and only when I was very lucky I got to activate it. However, depends on meta. Maybe yours doesn't punish such plays as quickly as mine.

I might get around to tinker with my list again because of griffin. Maybe this time I'll be able to get decent speed and consistency.

If I do, I'll probably run ancient tombs too for extra speed. Cloud of faeries might find a place too. Ah, so many ideas, so little deck space!
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
Okay, here's the combo oriented list I'm testing.

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Food Chain
4 Intuition
 
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Misthollow Griffin
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Eternal Witness
3 Vengevine
3 Fierce Empath
1 AEthersnipe
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Maga, Traitor to Mortals

I tried Wordly Tutor and I thought it sucked. It was just as slow as Fauna Shaman, but only a one-shot effect. I don't think GSZ, Summoner's Pact, or Chord of Calling are going to be good enough here. I also tried Extract, but found that you can't use more than one of them, and that was just too random for me. It's too narrow of a card anyways. 
I've been splitting games with most opponents. I haven't had the opportunity to play many established decks yet though.
Edit:
Spoils is taking away too much life too often. I'm dropping it for Intuition so I'll update the list.
I didn't quite get it to click yet. It's still much too slow for my tastes. I expect solid turn 3 wins.

However, I found ancient tomb to be quite useful. It makes it very easy to cast early intuition and/or food chains. The 8 mana dudes are often not sufficient. Draws with no mana dude in hand are very slow, so the ancient tomb helps with this problem too.

What I don't like aboutb the concept is how food chain is basically a three card combo. You need chain, draw and a good mana source to get anywhere.

GSZ and Chord are really bad, I agree. Still think summoner's pact is quite good but I'm still deciding on the targets.

Isn't show and tell hurtful for the combo? It's a completely dead draw when in chain mode. Unless you play cloud of faeries or another "untap lands" critter. Then you could generate some mana to cast it.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
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