U/W allies Input?

13 posts / 0 new
Last post
OK, so. This is my Ally deck, as it stands now. It's U/W, and I'm missing a few cards I want for it, but it's still among my strongest decks.

CREATURES: 25

White:
Talus Paladin x3
Kabira Evangel x2
Kazandu Blademaster x4
Ondu Cleric x3
Hada Freeblade x4

Blue:
Jwari Shapeshifter x4
Umara Raptor x3
Sea Gate Loremaster x1
Halimar Excavator x1

SPELLS: 17

White:
Join the Ranks x1 (Need more of these, I think.)
Solemn Offering x2
Holy Strength x2
Divine Offering x1

Blue:

Jace's Erasure x2
Cancel x2

Artifact:

Trusty Machete x2
Amulet of Vigor x1
Norn's Annex x1
Prophetic Prism x1
Expedition Map x1

Planeswalker:
Venser, the Sojourner x1

LANDS: 18

Emeria, the Sky Ruin x1
Plains x9
Island x8

Whew...there it is. I don't really have any problems with it as is, but I'd like some feedback. What would you change? What rocks? Should it be made Domain, or whatever? And so on.

Thanks in advance~!
Well... you're plan is to beat folks to death, right?


So... cut the other wincons. I mean... erasure? Really? Halimar? Ugh. It's too slow, it doesn't make you any close to beating them to death and there are plenty of decks who see their graveyard is a resource.

You're Also heinously short on 1drops. A single four-of doesn't cut it in an aggro deck. I'd consider. If you keep blue then look into Mothdust Changeling. It's still an ally, can have evasion, and... isn't entirely terrible.

Next, cut out all of the inneficient creatures. Yeah, you plan on dropping more and more allies and making them all get huge, but Wrath effects... exist. You want stuff to all pull it's own weight. Blademaster and Freeblade pull their own weight. Other stuff doesn't. Lifegain is wasted in an aggro deck, since by the time you need the life you've already lost.

Turntimber Ranger, if you can add green *is* worth it. If you want hilarity considering mixing in Conspiracy, since an arbitrary number of creatures showing up is always hilarious (although, as a 10 mana, two double-mana-invested spells it's "cute jank", not "buhroken". Thank goodness for futureshifts.

Also. Auras. Auras, aside from a few awesome ones, are bad. Pack equipment instead, or global buffs, or what have you. If this is to be a dedicated casual deck... why not Door of Destinies
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
Well... you're plan is to beat folks to death, right?


So... cut the other wincons. I mean... erasure? Really? Halimar? Ugh. It's too slow, it doesn't make you any close to beating them to death and there are plenty of decks who see their graveyard is a resource.

You're Also heinously short on 1drops. A single four-of doesn't cut it in an aggro deck. I'd consider. If you keep blue then look into Mothdust Changeling . It's still an ally, can have evasion, and... isn't entirely terrible.

Next, cut out all of the inneficient creatures. Yeah, you plan on dropping more and more allies and making them all get huge, but Wrath effects... exist. You want stuff to all pull it's own weight. Blademaster and Freeblade pull their own weight. Other stuff doesn't. Lifegain is wasted in an aggro deck, since by the time you need the life you've already lost.

Turntimber Ranger, if you can add green *is* worth it. If you want hilarity considering mixing in Conspiracy, since an arbitrary number of creatures showing up is always hilarious (although, as a 10 mana, two double-mana-invested spells it's "cute jank", not "buhroken". Thank goodness for futureshifts.

Also. Auras. Auras, aside from a few awesome ones, are bad. Pack equipment instead, or global buffs, or what have you. If this is to be a dedicated casual deck... why not Door of Destinies




Hmmm...an interesting spin, that. So, to add some Green, what all would you cut? Besides the Halimars and Erasures, I mean.

Thanks for the input already, though, man.

Also, I'd like this to be tournament viable, if possible, though casual is all right, too.


Hmmm...an interesting spin, that. So, to add some Green, what all would you cut? Besides the Halimars and Erasures, I mean.

Thanks for the input already, though, man.

Also, I'd like this to be tournament viable, if possible, though casual is all right, too.



Well, you're taking blue down to just a splash, so the cancels can go out for Mana Leak, which is splashable and comes online a turn earlier/is easier to play while dropping something smallish.

By tournaments I assume you mean FNM... if so, then it really depends on how competitive it gets at your shop. Jund and zoo are gonna be faster with better stuff, zombies is gonna be doing more rediculous things, etc., but if it's "playing hard but not the meta of the modern board" you could maybe get away with it. Allies just... weren't that 'ard a tribe, is the thing. You'd want Mutavaults for sure, maybe some of the relevant zendikar dually manlands (although CiPT is... ugh). I don't even want to think about Tron.

To be a really capable modern deck you also need to invest in dualies and fetches, which gets pricy fast. For a dip and a less competitive (but... still competitive for the area) group then the newer duals could probably fit in.



The artifact hate is strictly SB material, but you'll want some other removal in the meantime. Think path or the like.



Lastly, there's your artifacts. Amulet of vigor slows you down, Expedition Map would be better served as another Emeria if you can get one. Annex doesn't fit your gameplan, I'm not really sure what Amulet of vigor is there for, and the machette is... just plain bad. Compare it to what else equipment can do. Nim Deathmantle might be better, although leaving mana up hurts.


On the other hand, casual doesn't have to mean soft. My friends mostly can't afford to really get into the game. We've got full-proxy EDH(because, well, do you want to play against EDH decks that don't have whatever manabase is possible? No, really, it sucks), and then everyone has a bunch of real casual decks. That doesn't mean we don't make them as hard as possible, but it's based on what we can get our hands ahold of. This seems like a deck that would fit in there, with any lack of power being made up for by the fact that we use the same decks for multiplayer, a situation where door of destinies freaking *shines*.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.


Hmmm...an interesting spin, that. So, to add some Green, what all would you cut? Besides the Halimars and Erasures, I mean.

Thanks for the input already, though, man.

Also, I'd like this to be tournament viable, if possible, though casual is all right, too.



Well, you're taking blue down to just a splash, so the cancels can go out for Mana Leak, which is splashable and comes online a turn earlier/is easier to play while dropping something smallish.

By tournaments I assume you mean FNM... if so, then it really depends on how competitive it gets at your shop. Jund and zoo are gonna be faster with better stuff, zombies is gonna be doing more rediculous things, etc., but if it's "playing hard but not the meta of the modern board" you could maybe get away with it. Allies just... weren't that 'ard a tribe, is the thing. You'd want Mutavaults for sure, maybe some of the relevant zendikar dually manlands (although CiPT is... ugh). I don't even want to think about Tron.

To be a really capable modern deck you also need to invest in dualies and fetches, which gets pricy fast. For a dip and a less competitive (but... still competitive for the area) group then the newer duals could probably fit in.



The artifact hate is strictly SB material, but you'll want some other removal in the meantime. Think path or the like.



Lastly, there's your artifacts. Amulet of vigor slows you down, Expedition Map would be better served as another Emeria if you can get one. Annex doesn't fit your gameplan, I'm not really sure what Amulet of vigor is there for, and the machette is... just plain bad. Compare it to what else equipment can do. Nim Deathmantle might be better, although leaving mana up hurts.


On the other hand, casual doesn't have to mean soft. My friends mostly can't afford to really get into the game. We've got full-proxy EDH(because, well, do you want to play against EDH decks that don't have whatever manabase is possible? No, really, it sucks), and then everyone has a bunch of real casual decks. That doesn't mean we don't make them as hard as possible, but it's based on what we can get our hands ahold of. This seems like a deck that would fit in there, with any lack of power being made up for by the fact that we use the same decks for multiplayer, a situation where door of destinies freaking *shines*.

Thanks for the pointers~! To answer your (sort of) question, the amulet of vigor is there to take up space. I got another Join the Ranks , so it's replacing the amulet.

I thought about dropping the blue down to a splash, and adding green in. Make it kind of a Bant allies?

I've also thought about trying to make it prismatic, and use all colors.

How about drop some of the artifact hate for Oblivion Ring , pop in some U/W/G multi lands, toss some green allies in, and switch around some artifacts?
Bant Allies is probably going to be your best bet for a deck.  Right now I play a very casual Allies deck, but it's capable of very explosive plays when the opponent isn't keeping up.

The biggest reason to play green is because of Harabaz Druid.  It accelerates your deck out incredibly fast.  The next best reason is Turntimber Ranger, just like Cyklown suggested before; however, you don't need to dip into Black in order to play Conspiracy--just play Xenograft from New Phyrexia.

I would argue continuing to play Blue for two reasons as well: Jwari Shapeshifter and Time Warp.  Shapeshifter increases consistency, Warp wins you the game whenever you would usually just fold to Emrakul.

My guess for Modern?  Play Intruder Alarm if you can find any.  Untapping Harabaz Druid and Sea-gate Loremaster every time you play a creature spell just seem too good to be true.  Narrow down the spells until you have absolutely only what you need, and suddenly you'll dominate decks you might have usually lost to.

If I can think of a good list, I'll let you know. 
Bant Allies is probably going to be your best bet for a deck.  Right now I play a very casual Allies deck, but it's capable of very explosive plays when the opponent isn't keeping up.

The biggest reason to play green is because of Harabaz Druid.  It accelerates your deck out incredibly fast.  The next best reason is Turntimber Ranger, just like Cyklown suggested before; however, you don't need to dip into Black in order to play Conspiracy--just play Xenograft from New Phyrexia.

I would argue continuing to play Blue for two reasons as well: Jwari Shapeshifter and Time Warp.  Shapeshifter increases consistency, Warp wins you the game whenever you would usually just fold to Emrakul.

My guess for Modern?  Play Intruder Alarm if you can find any.  Untapping Harabaz Druid and Sea-gate Loremaster every time you play a creature spell just seem too good to be true.  Narrow down the spells until you have absolutely only what you need, and suddenly you'll dominate decks you might have usually lost to.

If I can think of a good list, I'll let you know. 



 Yeah, what I'm thinking of going for is Bant. Add in Turntimber Ranger and Harabaz Druid, some Seaside Citadel and some Obelisk of Bant , perhaps a couple of Oran-Rief Survivalist s, Dolmen Gate , and maybe Mothdust Changeling .

The real question becomes, what do I drop?


 Yeah, what I'm thinking of going for is Bant. Add in Turntimber Ranger and Harabaz Druid, some Seaside Citadel and some Obelisk of Bant , perhaps a couple of Oran-Rief Survivalist s, Dolmen Gate , and maybe Mothdust Changeling .

The real question becomes, what do I drop?



Obelisk of Bant?  Really?

I guess if you aren't really planning on a fast Modern environment where you are at because honestly...that Obelisk blows.  I guess I could see Dolmen Gate, but Obelisk is not only slow, but barely makes an impact on an unstable manabase.  It just doesn't do enough quick enough.

I mean, seriously, play Ancient Ziggurat if you're feeling that worried.  They should be hard to find, especially if there are a lot of players where you're at.  Trading for them shouldn't be too hard.  Otherwise wait until Avacyn Restored comes out and try to get your hands on a playset of that new land they're premiering as the answer to Snapcaster.  Another Ally in your deck would be better than Obelisk.

If you want to know the cards you can take out, see below:

White:
Solemn Offering x2
Holy Strength x2
Divine Offering x1

Blue:

Jace's Erasure x2
Cancel x2

Artifact:

Trusty Machete x2
Amulet of Vigor x1
Norn's Annex x1

Planeswalker:
Venser, the Sojourner x1

LANDS: 18

Emeria, the Sky Ruin x1

_______________________

All of the above cards can be removed without even beginning to touch the core of what the deck needs to look like.  Honestly, restart making this deck by taking every card out that's not an Ally and then add every Ally you possibly can into the deck.  Allies are only good if you draw a lot of them, but if you draw all of these other spells (14 spells to be exact, with one strong land card which only works (and I mean only) in a mono-White deck) you're literally drawing dead cards.

I will gladly give a more detailed blow-by-blow of why I'd take out these cards, but it'll take a little bit of time.  If you want a quick answer, here it is.

Okay, let me take a step back, because I'm sure all of this seems very harsh to you.  It's just I don't know how much you've been paying attention to the decks in Modern at the moment, but most Modern decks are setting themselves up to win by the third or fourth turn.  With your first posted decklist you'll be praying to play your second Ally by turn three, maybe even four.  I'm really interested in this Ally deck, and I think it has potential.  How about posting your current decklist, and we can go from there?


 Yeah, what I'm thinking of going for is Bant. Add in Turntimber Ranger and Harabaz Druid, some Seaside Citadel and some Obelisk of Bant , perhaps a couple of Oran-Rief Survivalist s, Dolmen Gate , and maybe Mothdust Changeling .

The real question becomes, what do I drop?



Obelisk of Bant?  Really?

I guess if you aren't really planning on a fast Modern environment where you are at because honestly...that Obelisk blows.  I guess I could see Dolmen Gate, but Obelisk is not only slow, but barely makes an impact on an unstable manabase.  It just doesn't do enough quick enough.

I mean, seriously, play Ancient Ziggurat if you're feeling that worried.  They should be hard to find, especially if there are a lot of players where you're at.  Trading for them shouldn't be too hard.  Otherwise wait until Avacyn Restored comes out and try to get your hands on a playset of that new land they're premiering as the answer to Snapcaster.  Another Ally in your deck would be better than Obelisk.

If you want to know the cards you can take out, see below:

White:
Solemn Offering x2
Holy Strength x2
Divine Offering x1

Blue:

Jace's Erasure x2
Cancel x2

Artifact:

Trusty Machete x2
Amulet of Vigor x1
Norn's Annex x1

Planeswalker:
Venser, the Sojourner x1

LANDS: 18

Emeria, the Sky Ruin x1

_______________________

All of the above cards can be removed without even beginning to touch the core of what the deck needs to look like.  Honestly, restart making this deck by taking every card out that's not an Ally and then add every Ally you possibly can into the deck.  Allies are only good if you draw a lot of them, but if you draw all of these other spells (14 spells to be exact, with one strong land card which only works (and I mean only) in a mono-White deck) you're literally drawing dead cards.

I will gladly give a more detailed blow-by-blow of why I'd take out these cards, but it'll take a little bit of time.  If you want a quick answer, here it is.

Okay, let me take a step back, because I'm sure all of this seems very harsh to you.  It's just I don't know how much you've been paying attention to the decks in Modern at the moment, but most Modern decks are setting themselves up to win by the third or fourth turn.  With your first posted decklist you'll be praying to play your second Ally by turn three, maybe even four.  I'm really interested in this Ally deck, and I think it has potential.  How about posting your current decklist, and we can go from there?



My current decklist has not changed from my first post up above, actually. Waiting to order / trade for more allies before I change the deck.

Regarding your suggestions, all of those sound decent to me to remove, save Venser . I have him in there to cycle my allies in and out, raising their counters and triggering their abilities all the faster. Problem is, I have a slow enough manabase to make him difficult to play before turn 5. Any idea on how to fix that?
 

My current decklist has not changed from my first post up above, actually. Waiting to order / trade for more allies before I change the deck.

Regarding your suggestions, all of those sound decent to me to remove, save Venser . I have him in there to cycle my allies in and out, raising their counters and triggering their abilities all the faster. Problem is, I have a slow enough manabase to make him difficult to play before turn 5. Any idea on how to fix that?



I'll be honest with you, I'm really against Venser in here.  You can do what you want, but let me at least provide an argument:

1)  He's slow coming out.  There's no doubt about it, Venser is going to come out around the time you're losing your last life or staring down an Emrakul/Karn.  The only way to power him out sooner is with Harabaz Druid, which will be turn three at the earliest.  Coming down that soon will mean bouncing a permanent which won't get any benefit from it.

2)  His bouncing erases the current counters on one of your allies.  The power of allies is being able to power them all up rapidly.  Unless you bounce one of your utility creatures, one of your designated sluggers is taking the hit every turn by losing all of their counters.  The only ally I could see getting bounced every turn is the healer.

3)  The return ability is at the end of turn, not immediately.  Therefore, you'll only see benefits for each of your opponent's turn, not your own.  It'll slow you down immensely if you have to wait each of your opponent's turns to get that extra +1/+1 counter, protection from colors, life, etc.

4)  There are better cards to play than Venser which makes much stronger impacts.  Ghostway can be played at the end of your opponent's turn and even though it removes all of the counters, all of your allies see every other ally come into play at once.  It also costs less, so you can play an ally during your turn and then hit your opponent with Ghostway during their turn.

5)  He's sitting at a one-of, so you're undoubtably drawing him through Sea-Gate, which means he's going to be late game pretty much no matter what.  I hope you aren't mulliganing until you see him.


If you want to play him, be my guest.  He's very flashy and has some interesting effects.  I just don't think he's going to do anything powerful in this format.  He'll be fun in Casual, for sure.

 

My current decklist has not changed from my first post up above, actually. Waiting to order / trade for more allies before I change the deck.

Regarding your suggestions, all of those sound decent to me to remove, save Venser . I have him in there to cycle my allies in and out, raising their counters and triggering their abilities all the faster. Problem is, I have a slow enough manabase to make him difficult to play before turn 5. Any idea on how to fix that?



I'll be honest with you, I'm really against Venser in here.  You can do what you want, but let me at least provide an argument:

1)  He's slow coming out.  There's no doubt about it, Venser is going to come out around the time you're losing your last life or staring down an Emrakul/Karn.  The only way to power him out sooner is with Harabaz Druid, which will be turn three at the earliest.  Coming down that soon will mean bouncing a permanent which won't get any benefit from it.

2)  His bouncing erases the current counters on one of your allies.  The power of allies is being able to power them all up rapidly.  Unless you bounce one of your utility creatures, one of your designated sluggers is taking the hit every turn by losing all of their counters.  The only ally I could see getting bounced every turn is the healer.

3)  The return ability is at the end of turn, not immediately.  Therefore, you'll only see benefits for each of your opponent's turn, not your own.  It'll slow you down immensely if you have to wait each of your opponent's turns to get that extra +1/+1 counter, protection from colors, life, etc.

4)  There are better cards to play than Venser which makes much stronger impacts.  Ghostway can be played at the end of your opponent's turn and even though it removes all of the counters, all of your allies see every other ally come into play at once.  It also costs less, so you can play an ally during your turn and then hit your opponent with Ghostway during their turn.

5)  He's sitting at a one-of, so you're undoubtably drawing him through Sea-Gate, which means he's going to be late game pretty much no matter what.  I hope you aren't mulliganing until you see him.


If you want to play him, be my guest.  He's very flashy and has some interesting effects.  I just don't think he's going to do anything powerful in this format.  He'll be fun in Casual, for sure.


Actually, surprisingly, I never have Sea gated him. But I can see your point. I just really like that 'walker. Perhaps I could build a deck around his concept...

Anyhow, I looked through my green stuff, and found Joraga Bard x4, and Graypelt Hunter x2. Think those are worth adding?

Also, Turntimber Ranger and Xenograft would make an infinite ally making loop, wouldn't it?


I'll be honest with you, I'm really against Venser in here.  You can do what you want, but let me at least provide an argument:

1)  He's slow coming out.  There's no doubt about it, Venser is going to come out around the time you're losing your last life or staring down an Emrakul/Karn.  The only way to power him out sooner is with Harabaz Druid, which will be turn three at the earliest.  Coming down that soon will mean bouncing a permanent which won't get any benefit from it.

2)  His bouncing erases the current counters on one of your allies.  The power of allies is being able to power them all up rapidly.  Unless you bounce one of your utility creatures, one of your designated sluggers is taking the hit every turn by losing all of their counters.  The only ally I could see getting bounced every turn is the healer.

3)  The return ability is at the end of turn, not immediately.  Therefore, you'll only see benefits for each of your opponent's turn, not your own.  It'll slow you down immensely if you have to wait each of your opponent's turns to get that extra +1/+1 counter, protection from colors, life, etc.

4)  There are better cards to play than Venser which makes much stronger impacts.  Ghostway can be played at the end of your opponent's turn and even though it removes all of the counters, all of your allies see every other ally come into play at once.  It also costs less, so you can play an ally during your turn and then hit your opponent with Ghostway during their turn.

5)  He's sitting at a one-of, so you're undoubtably drawing him through Sea-Gate, which means he's going to be late game pretty much no matter what.  I hope you aren't mulliganing until you see him.


If you want to play him, be my guest.  He's very flashy and has some interesting effects.  I just don't think he's going to do anything powerful in this format.  He'll be fun in Casual, for sure.




OK, so, this is the extremely oversized decklist I have now. Now I just need some help slimming it down.

CREATURES: 26

Umara Raptor x2
Turntimber Ranger x3
Harabaz Druid x3
Talus Paladin x2
Kazandu Blademaster x4
Hada Freeblade x4
Oran-Rief Survivalist x2
Mothdust Changeling x3
Jwari Shapeshifter x3

SPELLS: 14

Xenograft x2
Intruder Alarm x1
Mana Leak x4
Join the Ranks x4
Time Warp x3 OR Temporal Mastery x3

LANDS: 28

Azorius Chancery x2
Glacial Fortress x2
Sunpetal Grove x2
Temple Garden x2
4 Forest
8 Island
8 Plains

Whew~! OK, what would you edit, cause that's seriously the part of deckbuilding I'm worst at.

Thanks in advance~!
Shall I bump this a time or two, or start a new thread, as this is damn near a whole new deck now?