Optimal Dwarven Fighter and Dragonborn Fighter

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I'm making a  Lvl 5 Dwarven and Lvl 5 Dragonborn fighter character and I'm wondering what improvements you would suggest.  I want both to be able to dish out a lot of damage but also be able take a lot of punishment, so i set STR and CON high for both (mostly concerned with dealing damage).  I also want my characters to almost never miss in battle.  I am using the Character creator to make both.
 I'm pretty new to D&D so please give me any suggestions for improvemtents or how i can change the characters more how I want them to be.
First the Dwarf
    His ability scores (including racial benetifts and level additions) are as follows:
Str  19
Con 19   
Dex 13
Int   10
Wis  11
Cha  8
Weapons/ Armor:               Feats:
Waraxe                               Dwarven Weapon Training
Scale Armor                        - (unsure of other 2 feats)
Heavy Shield                      

The Dragonborn (Dragon Breath Fire)
Ability Scores
Str  20
Con 15
Dex 13
Int   10
Wis  12
Cha  10

Weapons/ Armor:                                Feats:
Scale Armor                                          Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
Bastard Sword                                       Dragonborn Senses 
Battleaxe (if i lose sword in battle)          Quick Draw
Heavy Shield

Please give me any suggestions and expanations for suggestions.  Thanks

Straight away I am drawn to the dwarven build much more than the dragonborn, and I am rather bias towards dwarves anyway, so I will focus more on that build.

 For ability scores, what is the reason you put 13 into dex instead of wis? At first I thought mabye axe mastery required a decent dex score, but that is not the case, as it only requires STR/CON, which you have covered quite handily. You gain reletively nothing from putting those points into dex, however if you put them into wis (swapping their scores), you gain access to uncanny dodge, because you will end up with 15 WIS by the epic tier. A great feat for any fighter who gets into the thick of things. Also having WIS higher helps some of your other kicker's, like combat superiority, etc. 

As for your feats, I would suggest investing in the following:
lvl 1 - Dwarven Weapon Training
lvl 2 - Weapon Expertise
lvl 4 - Armor Proficiency (plate)

These feats REALLY solidify you defenses, hitting capability, give you access to really nice weapons, as well as a serious damage boost. \

As for your items, I assume you are not allowed to have magical items, so I'd suggest you get some form of ranged combat, like handaxes so you are not useless at ranged combat.

I can't really say more than that as that is really all the info you have given me, so I hope this helps.
Which fighter build are you going for/using? Also what powers are you choosing? Its hard to help the build if we don't have all the info.

I think Dragon Born are more interesting if only for the options you get from dragon's breath (always nice to have a free encounter minor). I don't think you need quickdraw because you probably won't be using a bunch of alchemical items or switching your weapons up. Might I also suggest dragonborn frenzy over dragonborn senses.

If you go with the dwarf use a warhammer since you start proficent with it anyway.
Gruzuk thanks for the advise, good point on the wisdom, i didn't think of that.  When i chose scale armor instead of plate i didn't want to take the -1 penalty to speed.  In your experince will the pnalty matter all that much?
RickDeckard thanks and here are builds and powers i have so far.  I orininally chose Quick Draw just in case I didn't have time to make a move action or would my base attack bonus count it as a free action?  (I read on D&Dwiki that if you have a BAB of +1 or higher Drawing your weapon is counted as a free action)  If so would you suggest changing Quick Draw with Dragonborn Frenzy?

Dwarf: Weaponmaster, Battlerager Fighter

Brash Strike
Bell Ringer
Knee Breaker
Crushing Blow
Unexpected Sheild Bash

Dragonborn: Weaponmaster, Arena Fighter

Tide of Iron
Hack and Hew
Master's Edge
Baleful Glance (most likely to change)
Dance of Steel
Dizzying BLow

Don't use D&Dwiki as a resource. They have mostly 3.5 rules and a lot of their pages and info is all based off of a weird homebrew version of 3.5 and 4e. If you have an insider account just use the compendium for any sort of rules resource lookup.

My argument against quick draw was that the rules in 4e don't favor a fighter who switches weapons. Unlike previous editions where it was more iconic to have a fighter be a weapons master in the sense that he was proficent with just about everything; 4e rewards specialization. Even if you are proficent with two different weapons you won't usually have the feat support unless they are both within the same class (and at that point why are you switching weapons).

I'd definitely add dragonborn frenzy in over quickdraw (as a defender its your job to take hits so you'll be bloodied reasonably often).

I was also questioning the usefulness of dragonborn senses. You only get a +1 benefit to preception and insight out of it, but the low light vision could be helpful (and if you've got a story reason for it), otherwise I would wait till late heroic to take it since you could be taking a feat that improves your dragon breath or your fighter powers instead of it.

I'll look over those powers for two builds in a bit.

Dragonborn response:

First I wanna say I was stupid because what I said about damage and hit bonuses feats favoring specialization is 100 percent true EXCEPT for the arena fighter because it says right there in the class description that feats affecting hit, damage, and other bonuses based on weapon type apply to all your arena fighting weapons.

I did arena training with the battaleaxe and the bastard sword (saving you a proficency feats). My feat suggestions for your dragonborn are: Dragonborn Frenzy, Bolstering breath, and choose either between axe expertise or heavyblade expertise. Axe expertise nets you a re-roll on a die that lands on a 1 once per attack (very helpful) whereas heavyblade nets you +2 to all defense against opportunity attacks (letting you move around with less worry) both give you a +1 to hit that due to the arena fighter features would be applied to both weapons you use.  Bolstering breath makes your dragons breath only hit enemies (vs all creatures in the blast) thus letting you use it toast enemies without worrying about friendlies and it also gives all friendlies in the blast a +1 to hit until the end of your next turn.


LVL 1 At Wills: Both are nice choices.  You might want to replace Tide of Iron with weapon master's strike(WMS). WMS does the same damage but as a free action before the attack lets you swap weapons (thus you could switch up between your weapons even cheaper actionwise than if you had quick draw) and depending on the type of weapon used gives you an additional bonus on a hit (Your battleaxe would do extra damage = to your con mod and your heavy blade would give you +1 to ac against attacks from the target creature).

LVL 1 encounter: Passing strike might be better than hack and hew (does the same amount of damage 2 attacks for 1w+strength mod each), but it lets you shift after the first attack and hit someone else instead of the target (meaning you could mark 2 targets with it). I'd also suggest shield bash and shield riposte as cool powers based on you having a shield that do a little less damage but offer a lot of movement ability.

LVL1 Daily: Master's edge is really cool but it does low damage and how much use you get out of it depends on your DM. Some  Dms literally treat defenders like an MMO tank and funnel all attacks and damage at them if the creature is marked (thus denying you all the cool and free attacks master's edge would give you. While others have enemies ignore defenders and fight more intelligently. Driving attack and Shove and slap might be more reliable options if it goest the first way.

LVL 2 UTILITY: Dazing one of the people you hit with your dragonfear is not bad espeically because its save ends in this case. Dazed enemies can only do 1 thing (attack, move, etc.) a turn and thats a powerful way to cripple a powerful enemy. pass forward is a cool movement at will that lets you move around enemies next to you to reposition without the risk of attack which is nice. There are some cool stances too that give regen or bonus damage for the encounter.

lvl 3 ENOUNTER: Dance of steel is a fine choice. Think about sweeping blow as a possible alternative since both of your weapons would get a +2 to hit using it and it hits every enemy next to you.

lvl 5 daily: Looks fine, no other suggestions.

Thanks a lot, i used most of your suggestions.  And thanks for explaining everything.
I'm just an enthusiast who likes to help out people when I can.  Feel free to PM if you have any other questions down the road.
Not to dredge up a week old post but, you may wish to stick with or go back to the Lv.1 encounter power Hack and Hew. The second attack, while missing the sweet shift, is an effect and happens regardless of you hitting or missing whereas Passing Attack's second attack is part of the Hit line. If you miss with the first attack of passing strike you mark the initial target but do not get the shift, +2 and secondary attack. With Hack and Hew you will get to make two attacks and mark two targets hit or miss plus you get the invigorating key word tacked on to the attack so free THP's equal to CON mod IIRC.

My argument against quick draw was that the rules in 4e don't favor a fighter who switches weapons. Unlike previous editions where it was more iconic to have a fighter be a weapons master in the sense that he was proficent with just about everything; 4e rewards specialization. Even if you are proficent with two different weapons you won't usually have the feat support unless they are both within the same class (and at that point why are you switching weapons).

This is why I like to go heavy blade, and spend the feat to pick up drow long knife.  That allows my heavy blade feats to work with my ranged weapon, and I can use it as a backup melee weapon, should that be necessary.  There are more optimal ways of spending your feats, but I am happy with the flexibility a drow long knife gives me as a backup.
Hey guys I have been playing 4.0e for a couple months but I'm still new to the World of D&D. I had help building my Golith Minotaur ( I enjoy Hack and Slash lol) but now I have decided to build my own character. I bought the WOTC builder  to help but now im stuck.

I kept trying to build a dragonborn paladin or fighter but both are seeming quite unimpressive especially with Dragon Breath as an encounter). After some search I found this to be the feelings of most people as well.

My question is what would be a good build with stong attack skills but not a complete hack and slashe? Just for kicks, seeing as I do love hack and slash types (seeing as im the crazy one in the group lol) if you guys have Ideas for another Hack and Slash build I can keep in my back pocket (for mini Quests) that would be great. Im really hoping you guys have good Ideas cuz I don't.

Also if you could help me with a theme choices ,and background choices for all these guys that would be awesome too? FYI DM is open to any book building I choose so go nuts.

thanks everyone
first off try the char op board rather than the rules board. second, why are u posting at the end of an 8 month all thread rather than starting a new one (on the char op board)?
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