04/18/2012 Feature: "Planeswalker's Guide to Avacyn Restored: Part 2"

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This thread is for discussion of this Feature Article, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Sweet, so we know what happened with Garruk now. Plus we get to see the conflict on cards. Very nice. 

Happy that even though Savor the Flavor is lost in the Æther atm we'll have this for at least another week.  
Sweet, so we know what happened with Garruk now.

Yeah: nothing. He found Liliana, lost again, and is in exactly the same boat he was in before. I'm so glad they told us such a thrilling tale.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
Sweet, so we know what happened with Garruk now.

Yeah: nothing. He found Liliana, lost again, and is in exactly the same boat he was in before. I'm so glad they told us such a thrilling tale.


What did you think would happen? I don't think you thought that they would close this story now. Really, its just nice to see that Garruk is going to try looking for other ways to cure himself.
Sweet, so we know what happened with Garruk now.

Yeah: nothing. He found Liliana, lost again, and is in exactly the same boat he was in before. I'm so glad they told us such a thrilling tale.


What did you think would happen? I don't think you thought that they would close this story now. Really, its just nice to see that Garruk is going to try looking for other ways to cure himself.

To be honest, at this point I expect absolutely nothing from them. They have botched this story so thoroughly that there is literally nothing they can do anymore to salvage it in my mind.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but literally everything they've given us for this third set story has been a plot hole, a dropped plot thread, or an anticlimax. They took what has been my favorite block since Ravnica, and might even have become more favorite than Ravnica in time... and absolutely ruined it.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
Garruk has stopped following Liliana and is now seeking out, more or less, Avacyn. That is not the same boat at all - that is an entirely different boat.

If they later say "Nope that didn't work, back to following Liliana around, you big green idiot", that will be no progress, sloppy writing, etc.

So Liliana and Garruk both did something interesting. Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?
Garruk has stopped following Liliana and is now seeking out, more or less, Avacyn. That is not the same boat at all - that is an entirely different boat.

If they later say "Nope that didn't work, back to following Liliana around, you big green idiot", that will be no progress, sloppy writing, etc.

So Liliana and Garruk both did something interesting. Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?

I guess this is fair... his situation has changed.

The thing is, this is the last set in the block. There is no longer a Savor the Flavor column, and it might not be back before they've moved on to M13 or, heaven forbid, Return to Ravnica, so they can't finish his story on the site. There's no longer a book for each block, so they can't finish it there. They don't do the webcomics anymore, so they can't finish it there.

Yes, he's now pursuing another way to end his curse. Will we ever actually see him achieve that goal? I have a sickening feeling that this is the last we'll see of Garruk in this story. If he does get cured, it will happen offscreen and be handwaved for his next appearance.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
 Will we ever actually see him achieve that goal?



This is the crux of the matter. Unfortunately, we really have no way of knowing what the answer to that question is. except waiting to find out.
Sweet, so we know what happened with Garruk now.

Yeah: nothing. He found Liliana, lost again, and is in exactly the same boat he was in before. I'm so glad they told us such a thrilling tale.


What did you think would happen? I don't think you thought that they would close this story now. Really, its just nice to see that Garruk is going to try looking for other ways to cure himself.

To be honest, at this point I expect absolutely nothing from them. They have botched this story so thoroughly that there is literally nothing they can do anymore to salvage it in my mind.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but literally everything they've given us for this third set story has been a plot hole, a dropped plot thread, or an anticlimax. They took what has been my favorite block since Ravnica, and might even have become more favorite than Ravnica in time... and absolutely ruined it.


Yea, I've seen that in a lot of your posts.

Personally, I can forgive the story stuff, but I can understand why you are so frustrated with how things have ended. I think if we had a book, it would have fleshed the story out a lot more, making the short conflict between Garruk and Lili seem more meaningful, and made the death of Griselbrand less anticlimactic. Or at least, that is what I hope. I mean, it wasn't that hard to guess that Garruk wasn't going to be able to beat Lil, but was still going to live, and that Lili was going to find her demon and kill it. It is just a matter of how it gets presented. 

Garruk has stopped following Liliana and is now seeking out, more or less, Avacyn. That is not the same boat at all - that is an entirely different boat.

If they later say "Nope that didn't work, back to following Liliana around, you big green idiot", that will be no progress, sloppy writing, etc.

So Liliana and Garruk both did something interesting. Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?


I think Garruk is going to spend a decent amount of time on Innistrad, but since it is unlikely that his cure will take place off scene he's going to need to go back on the hunt for a cure. This may or may not mean that he will go after Lili again, but she will still be the best place to find answers. Also, I'm thinking that while he won't be cured he will have more control over the darker half he now has. 

And yea, Sorin is likely up next. 
Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?


"Sorin, who had returned to Innistrad to restore Avacyn and the balance he so masterfully created, saw that the plane itself had been capable of handling the situation. With Avacyn restored, his interest in action waned and he left the plane, leaving Innistrad to her own fate."

or

"All this time, Sorin had been hidden from sights, observing what was transpiring in Innistrad before finally deciding to intervene. At the battle at Thraben's Cathedral, he was hiding behind the Helvault, and when he saw the folly of the planeswalker named Liliana, he decided to finally take things into his own hands.

Click to reveal!

Sorin's intervention

Destroy target permanent.

Miracle

He made Liliana think she broke the Helvault! Now that Avacyn was back, his job was done, and he thus retired to his rightful throne at the center of Stensia, watching the humans of Innistrad take arms to restore the balance in this world."

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?


"All this time, Sorin had been hidden from sights, observing what was transpiring in Innistrad before finally deciding to intervene. At the battle at Thraben's Cathedral, he was hiding behind the Helvault, and when he saw the folly of the planeswalker named Liliana, he decided to finally take things into his own hands.

Click to reveal!

Sorin's intervention

Destroy target permanent.

Miracle

He made Liliana think she broke the Helvault! Now that Avacyn was back, his job was done, and he thus retired to his rightful throne at the center of Stensia, watching the humans of Innistrad take arms to restore the balance in this world."



Haha, nice story. I really don't know what was Sorin doingUndecided. Maybe Garruk should turn to Sorin if Avacyn cannot cure him.

I have a question. How come Avacyn become much more powerful than before. Before, she could not solve the werewolfs, demons and vampires, and was in a mere power balance. But now, she can transfrom the werewolves and solve everythings on her own. Did she got pitfighting the demons and level up a lot when trapped in Helvault? Or Sorin was actually hiding up somewhere levelling her up? 

Also I am still waiting to see the demons. Where are they??? Are they all killed by Avacyn when in the Helvault??
Sounds like they might use Garruk being cured by Avacyn as a reason to make him :gwm: the next time we see him. Such as, the only way Acacyn could cure the curse was by imbuing Garruk with some of her own essence (white mana).

Makes about as much sense as the veil's curse changing him to :bgm: in the first place.
I quite enjoyed the story update, although I agree - everything is having to be described in far too few words. At least we get the 'Triumph of...' cards to make it not just a complete sideshow. And I think it was pretty predictable that Garruk would lose to Lili, Lili would leave, and Garruk would have to turn to Avacyn for help. This *is* the black is nasty, white is nice block.

I really hope we either get a full conclusion in Part 3, or Doug does one more column to wrap it all up.

The demise of Griselbrand was the most disappointing part for me. Not much more than Griselbrand goes 'Well, that didn't really work. I'll just slink away over here... Oh, hello Liliana. You want what? Muahahahahaha  ah. Oh. Oops.' *BOOM*

I'm also struggling to see any way they can get Sorin involved, beyond 'You know all those inexplicable things - Avacyn being more powerful; the Helvault breaking like a Faberge egg etc.? Yeah - Sorin. Oh he's a devious Machiavellian type isn't he? Doing all this stuff behind the scenes. Still - see you next time.'

Come back Doug, or step up Jenna - these stories needs proper in-depth resolution.
I have a question. How come Avacyn become much more powerful than before. Before, she could not solve the werewolfs, demons and vampires, and was in a mere power balance. But now, she can transfrom the werewolves and solve everythings on her own. Did she got pitfighting the demons and level up a lot when trapped in Helvault? Or Sorin was actually hiding up somewhere levelling her up?



They haven't explained that. I'm maintaining my story that Griselbrand switched bodies with Avacyn in the Helvault. There is a twist somewhere in here. There has to be.

Also I am still waiting to see the demons. Where are they??? Are they all killed by Avacyn when in the Helvault??



Err, have you been following the spoilers? Half the previewed black cards are Demons, and I'm pretty sure they stressed last week that all the demons are out.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Garruk has stopped following Liliana and is now seeking out, more or less, Avacyn. That is not the same boat at all

I guess this is fair... his situation has changed.

The thing is, this is the last set in the block. There is no longer a Savor the Flavor column, and it might not be back before they've moved on to M13 or, heaven forbid, Return to Ravnica, so they can't finish his story on the site. There's no longer a book for each block, so they can't finish it there. They don't do the webcomics anymore, so they can't finish it there.

Yes, he's now pursuing another way to end his curse. Will we ever actually see him achieve that goal? I have a sickening feeling that this is the last we'll see of Garruk in this story. If he does get cured, it will happen offscreen and be handwaved for his next appearance.


Savor the Flavor will return in fine order, it's not that difficult, it's just preview season... not that you need one for M13 (although, I wish we did).

Besides that, the column isn't necessary. The creative team can write like they always do, they can hand it off to be plagarized by StF or they just publish it calling it something else; the column didn't affect anything but lighten the load. They work overtime now, but there's no issue of the story cutting off.

Finally, you're getting worked up over a partial story. We don't know a lot of the details not because they're ignored, but because they want the secrets to be let out slowly... they're not going to publish all of the story and let you stay up late one Friday evening mulling over it for 11 hours. There are no novels any more, so you don't get that. You're overreacting because you think every article is the last article that will ever be written.

I can forgive the Griselbrand anti-climax. Mostly because I never saw him as a real villain. We knew since ISD previews that he was going to die, and that's his sole purpose to the PW story. What else does there need to be? I admit it wasn't an epic death, but I'd rather them just let me know the gist of the story rather than try and read Creative's badly imagined swashbuckling fight scenes. God forbid kill it with fire.



I'm maintaining my story that Griselbrand switched bodies with Avacyn in the Helvault. There is a twist somewhere in here. There has to be.


lol
Liliana, travelling from plane to plane, hunting and killing major demons, driving her own story and other major storyline events.

Garruk, following Liliana like a puppy, accomplishing nothing, having no lasting effect on the storyline.

Sucks to be a green character in Wizards' world.
This was a nice read up until the Planeswalker part....

Then it made me wish Wizards still put out the 3 books for a block that had nothing to do with Planeswalkers....
Also I am still waiting to see the demons. Where are they??? Are they all killed by Avacyn when in the Helvault??



Err, have you been following the spoilers? Half the previewed black cards are Demons, and I'm pretty sure they stressed last week that all the demons are out.



I know. But is that all? What I see so far are only some flying fatties (except Griselbrand and Harvester of Souls). I don't mean they are weak. But they are simply not the dangerous villains I supposed being locked up in Helvault.
I, for one, loved this article.  Easily the best of the 3 today.  I loved seeing the redemption for the werewolves who didn't want to be wild killers (whatever the opposites of wantons were...).

Oh and boss picture:
IMAGE(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/features/feature191a_mmmk6rur7j.jpg)


On a similar note, I'm absolutely in love with Wolfir Silverheart's artwork too.  I hope they do a wallpaper of it.

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Just re-read the column and I think they've either messed up on the timings or glossed over just how long Garruk was a raving madman:

Garruk fights Liliana;
Liliana leaves him for dead;
Garruk fights off the ghouls then goes mad;
Avacyn issues the cursemute to transform the werewolves into Wolfir;
The cursemute cures Garruk briefly;
He decides whether to pursue Liliana to Thraben,where she's gone to break the Helvault, to release Avacyn, who issues the cursemute, which has already happened because that's how he got cured. Hang on...

The only explanation is that the line: "He wandered in blind circles, shouting at the ravens and imagined monsters" encompasses the entire period of time from Liliana going off and finding Geralf, through the attack on Thraben, the unhallowing of Mikaeus, Liliana's ultimatum to Thalia and the breaking of the Helvault, and the culling of the werewolves around Gatstaf all the way to the appearance of Avacyn at the grotto.

It's not a broken timeline, but the way it's written is pretty close :/
Where do I find the story that Liliana broke the Helvault and Avacyn was created by Sorin? Could not find any new book or webcomic about the current block. I've been away for a few months (just after the release of Inistrad) and now I can't find a detailed story to read.
There are no more books or webcomics.  They've been discontinued.

Innistrad World Building:
www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x...

Dark Ascension World Building:
www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x...

Avacyn Restored World Building:
www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x...


Savor the Flavor Archive:
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Archive.a...

You'll note that StF stopped on March 28.  The Avacyn Restored flavor articles are now Feature articles.

Planeswalkers guide to AVR:
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...






Since you haven't been around for a while you may also be interested in this:
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

***************************************************************************************

Post #777

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Hopefully we'll get Sorin next?


"All this time, Sorin had been hidden from sights, observing what was transpiring in Innistrad before finally deciding to intervene. At the battle at Thraben's Cathedral, he was hiding behind the Helvault, and when he saw the folly of the planeswalker named Liliana, he decided to finally take things into his own hands.

Click to reveal!

Sorin's intervention

Destroy target permanent.

Miracle

He made Liliana think she broke the Helvault! Now that Avacyn was back, his job was done, and he thus retired to his rightful throne at the center of Stensia, watching the humans of Innistrad take arms to restore the balance in this world."



Haha, nice story. I really don't know what was Sorin doingUndecided. Maybe Garruk should turn to Sorin if Avacyn cannot cure him.

I have a question. How come Avacyn become much more powerful than before. Before, she could not solve the werewolfs, demons and vampires, and was in a mere power balance. But now, she can transfrom the werewolves and solve everythings on her own. Did she got pitfighting the demons and level up a lot when trapped in Helvault? Or Sorin was actually hiding up somewhere levelling her up? 

Also I am still waiting to see the demons. Where are they??? Are they all killed by Avacyn when in the Helvault??



The only thing I can imagine is that Grislbrand was killed and that tipped the balance.

Also, agreed that this is both bad and uninteresting storytelling. Can we go back to having interesting characters, maybe?

Remember earlier it mentioned that Garruk doubted he could survive another planeswalk? I think Avacyn will give him his own artifact, like the Silver Pendant, that will help him survive a new planeswalk, and give him strength to face liliana. And remember, griselbrands death wasn't supposed to be climactic. Liliana has to kill 2 more and what plane do we know has powerful demons? How about ... Rakdos the Defiler? And the next set just happens to be Return to Ravnica! Plus, part of selesnya flavor was to destroy artifacts with incredible proficiency. Maybe Garruk will seek their help? as a side note, here is a cool garruk design (i think), although whatever wotc creates will be awesome(he always is):

Garruk, Lord of the Mighty Wild:
4GGG

+1: Put a 3/3 beast token onto the battlefield
- 3: Search your library for two lands, then put Them onto the battlefield.
- 12: Put an X/X Wurm token onto the battlefield, where X is the total power among creatures you control. Then do it again.
Sarting loyalty: 5

probably overpowered or weak, but kinda like he regained his true self, no?
Savor the Flavor will return in fine order, it's not that difficult, it's just preview season... not that you need one for M13 (although, I wish we did).

Trust me, I know. The question is, will it be back in time to "finish" this story?

Besides that, the column isn't necessary. The creative team can write like they always do, they can hand it off to be plagarized by StF or they just publish it calling it something else; the column didn't affect anything but lighten the load. They work overtime now, but there's no issue of the story cutting off.

The only time they plagiarize is for Planeswalker's Guides. The rest was Doug Beyer (or the occasional guest writer).

Finally, you're getting worked up over a partial story. We don't know a lot of the details not because they're ignored, but because they want the secrets to be let out slowly... they're not going to publish all of the story and let you stay up late one Friday evening mulling over it for 11 hours. There are no novels any more, so you don't get that. You're overreacting because you think every article is the last article that will ever be written.

Notice at the bottom of this article: Part 1, Part 2. In Part 1, at the bottom, were just Part 1, Part 2. There's not going to be a Part 3. They may do the rare feature article, but without a consistent Savor the Flavor column, at the moment, it's unlikely we'll see much more of the story. And as it stands, we really need to see more, because none of what we've seen makes sense at all.

But I know a losing battle when I see one. This story is far beyond salvaging, so I'm sounding a retreat. Avacyn Restored is a lost cause, so it's time to salvage what hope I can and pray that they got their act together in time for Return to Ravnica.

IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
The climax of the story wasn't killing Grislebrand, it was finding him.  The actual fight was just the resolution.  Sure Gris is a powerful demon, but Liliana is a Planeswalker. Even post-mending walkers are more powerful than Gris would be. Liliana channeled all that power through the Chain Veil to destroy Gris. it was no contest, and rightly so.

But the real climax of the story, the face off between Liliana & Thalia was cool. It's even more cool because of what Wizards revealed at the Pax East panel: Liliana used her 'Liliana of the Veil' ultimate ability on Thalia.  When they faced off, She put all of Thalia's Cathars etc in one 'pile' and the helvault in the other, then forced Thalia to choose which one to sacrifice. Having the story (intentionally) sync up so well with the card is awesome, because Magic is a card game first. The storylines are there to support and enhance the experience of playing with the cards.

As for those wondering about the resolutionn of Garruk's curse storyline, I have a sneaking suspicion that we might see a purified Garruk on a card in this set, almost like we got Karn Liberated in New Phyrexia before knowing how he was liberated. I know having two Garruks would be a bit of overkill, but we've already got a ton of Walker cards in this set, so what's one more? Plus it would echo the 'Happy Innistrad' mirror theme they've got going (for instance in the Basic Lands)
~ Current Decks I'm Playing or Building ~ (Click a deck's name to see list) [] CorpseJunk Menace/Township Counters (Standard) [] Reanimation/Clerics Theme Deck - Commander: Ghost Dad [] Devouring Tokens (Planechase, Multiplayer) [] Krark-Clan Ironworks: 2012 Edition (Modern) [] Azorious Turbo Fog (Modern)
They said there are only two planeswalkers in this set.

 But I'm sure we'll know about Garruk soon enough (probably not next block, though).
Thanks a lot, Flyheight
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