Fanon Master List

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So, over the years we've built up a pretty considerable amount of supplementary material that adds to Canon and is widely recognized as either very likely, functionally true, or awesome enough to be repeated to newcomers.

This thread is an attempt to gather all of that material in one place for easy reference in the future.

Here's the list as it currently stands:



  • Tamiyo writes the Planeswalker's Guides.

  • Summoned creatures are either incomplete copies of the real creatures they emulate made from æther OR they are the real thing, dragged THROUGH the aether to different planes. It is likely that both forms of summoning exist, and 'walkers may not know what type of summoning they are using.

  • An archon is the physical manifestation of an ideal.

  • A spectre is the equal opposite of an archon.

  • A lammasu is a champion of a given location such as a city or a shrine--in essence, what Archons are for ideals and Angels are for celestial powers, Lammasu are for earthly powers.

  • The Mirari fell into the hands of goblins after the death of Slobad and eventually caused the rapid mutations that transformed the original Mirran goblins into the Mirran goblins circa the New Phyrexian War of Conquest.

  • One of the names for The Ineffable is "God of Screaming Metal" (This one has been around so long that I think people have started assuming that it's canon. This was coined by fans over on phyrexia.com, however--the only canon names for The Ineffable are his title, Lord of the Wastes, and his true name.)

  • The Purifying Fire occurred sometime during Jace's time with the Infinite Consortium.

  • Anything between Karona's awakening and her final defeat is Contested Territory. We know something happened, but the details about what happened are vague, largely due to the fact that A. Karona was a powerful reality warper and B. her emergence functionally shattered large swaths of time itself, meaning that it is possible for multiple continuities to exist simultaneously. This is why the set Scourge and the novel Scourge are so different, and why neither correspond to later continuity.

  • Jace//Bolas 4 Evar


I like how 1/3 of these are created entirely by Barinellos...


What have I missed?



Also, should we create an Anticanon counterpart to this? It would have information like:



  • Marit Lage is not an Eldrazi. There is nothing to connect the two, and there are canonically only three Eldrazi. (The rest are spawn, and have the creature type Eldrazi, unlike Marit Lage.)

  • Jace and Chandra are not romantically involved. They have spent roughly twenty minutes in the same room together.

  • Chandra is not going to start using white mana. She currently is on a quest to battle against anything white, in fact.

  • The Eldrazi were not defeated, despite rumors to the contrary. The last we heard, Gideon had defeated a whole bunch of spawn and went off to rally help in Ravnica.


I feel like having that list might help out a bit, especially if we can compile our sources so we can just link people to them...

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Jace//Bolas 4 Evar



I ship Bolas/Ravnica. How dare you!? >8{

Incidently:

- The Porcelain Army is the dominant phyrexian faction, since all phyrexians use "porcelain".

- There is actually a much larger percentage of good aligned critters than we know by canon. Note how many of the creature cards have no flavour text; protagonist cards have no flavour text either...

- Angels are naturally oriented towards and mana. Note that there are far more and angels than and angels. This would mean archons and lammassu are more truthful representations of mana.

- Similarly, demons are inclined towards mana.

- Devils born out of demon on human sex. **** causes half-demons, consensual sex causes devils.

- Urza was because of Serra's comment.

- Sorin is biromantic asexual. 
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Um.

A lot of the stuff in the list I posted is pretty widely agreed upon. Most of the stuff you mentioned... well, I've never even seen it hinted at before anywhere.
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Wasn't the Lord of the Wastes actually Leshrac? And I think that when Phage, Akroma and the third chick fused into Karoma, a fourth ingredient that may or may not be a hallucinogetic fungi was also accidentally involved.

It's a pretty abysmal low amount of fanon though, given the multiverse we're dealing with. Kudo's to (y)our own integrities.
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Jace//Bolas 4 Evar



I ship Bolas/Ravnica. How dare you!? >8{

Incidently:

- The Porcelain Army is the dominant phyrexian faction, since all phyrexians use "porcelain".

- There is actually a much larger percentage of good aligned critters than we know by canon. Note how many of the creature cards have no flavour text; protagonist cards have no flavour text either...

- Angels are naturally oriented towards and mana. Note that there are far more and angels than and angels. This would mean archons and lammassu are more truthful representations of mana.

- Similarly, demons are inclined towards mana.

- Devils born out of demon on human sex. **** causes half-demons, consensual sex causes devils.

- Urza was because of Serra's comment.

- Sorin is biromantic asexual. 


wah-huh?
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@Terti:

Nooo, pretty sure Lord of the Wastes was a title used to refer to The Ineffable during the beginning of Weatherlight. Not sure what Leshrac's titles were, although I'm sure they were similarly unfriendly sounding.

And yes, I think the hallucinogens might actually be official canon. Scourge was a weird time for Magic.



I'm trying to think if there are any older bits of headcanon that have made the rounds... It's tough, because so many of them have probably been assimilated into the canon to the point where it isn't really visible as fanon anymore.
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Some comments:
1. Leshrac was called just The Walker of Night
2. God of Screaming Metal ^^ - you're putting oil on my heartstone, Keeper. ;)
3. As for summoning creatures [real/aether copies] - I wouldn't call it fanon. It's a canon. Although the problem here might be indeed if caster knows what he's casting. Books have examples of wizards who do know what they're casting. But there might be some who don't...
4. Jace//Bolas <3 - lolol
5.Tamiyo idea - it's a nice throwback to Taysir's Encyclopedia Dominia. Tough personally, I'm not sure... from the description, she seems to really study the thing - being for months in libraries, possibly observing closely the whole plane. That would require her to be for a long time on every of the recent planes [what a coincidence!] possibly long before their respective plots even started, and I don't think she can split her being and spark into multiple instances to observe history and climaxes on all these planes. Then again, she is a neowalker, so she can jump between the planes, spend week here, month there... read some books and journals on recent events, maybe even read some minds, use some other magic tricks... still, it requires some noticible amount of suspension of disbelief for me. Also - it might turn out that Guids contain just too much knowledge to consider her... take New Phyrexia as an example, pretty much hermetic to an outsider as herself. I doubt she would get so much out of there. Nice try though ;)

----
Still, you called for more fanon, so I'll throw something into the bag.
1. Mirrodin obviously - and the time which flowed there differently than in the rest of the multiverse, because of Memnarch's madness and influence on the world, likely enhanced by the rifts as well.
2. My old idea: Rath was created by Phyrexians/Yawgmoth - we all know that, but we don't know how it came to be; so the idea was, that Leshrac had something to do with it, since he was imprisoned on Phyrexia by Taysir just around that time. It just fits too well. So, either Yawgmoth forced him to help [since the canon stated before, that only planeswalkers could create artificial planes], or better yet - just dissected what he needed from Leshrac's mind, making Nightwalker even more mad and chaotic, and then used that knowledge to create Rath.

I have a hate/love approach to this fanon. On the one hand, it just fits too damn well. On the other, it kinda diminishes Yawgmoth's brilliance.

3. New Phyrexia was Elspeth's fault. ;) [my personal fanon - I'm not forcing anyone to believe it ;P]
I wanted to include the Summoning thing since it's something people ask about periodically, and it's handy to have a clear answer somewhere. It's technically canon, but compiled from several sources rather than present in just one story.

I forgot about the Memnarch Causes Time Distortions thing. That's a really important one.

You know, the Leshrac thing does make a LOT of sense... huh. And it's not really any weirder than the Mirari and Tamiyo speculations, on the whole. Yeah, I'm liking that a lot.

How is New Phyrexia Elspeth's fault? I'm actually curious now :P
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How is New Phyrexia Elspeth's fault? I'm actually curious now :P


I think you just don't remember...

Well, first goblins found it (right?), and they damaged it again, so it became good'ol Mirari, pouring mana at everything and fulfilling wishes of its wielders, though not exactly along their intentions.
As we know from the first post in this thread, the mana thing mutated poor goblins into what we saw in the new Mirrodin block. But goblins are clumsy, and soon they lost the Mirari. And then...
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she was actually supposed to touch it unconsciously... Ah, I guess goblins damaged it even more than I thought before. ;)



EDIT:
getting back to Leshrac - I mean, you wouldn't really expect Leshrac hanging around there for few centuries without being spotted and dealt with in one way or another.

Also: "you're putting oil on my heartstone" - I just realised how this sounds in these times... like if I cursed at you for biting off heads of little kittens... no, wait, Phyrexians might have actually enjoyed that... well, you get the point.


IIRC Angels, Archons, and Lammasu are all nudged into existence when their patron things are threatened with destruction or extinction according to the same popular fanon that provides their purposes. And can we have some word for the three of these types of creatures together, since they have so much in common? Being made of white mana, naturally occuring, and usually existing to defend something. Like... mana guardians... or something that doesn't sound dumb.

And as delightful as Jace/Bolas is, do people here really think of it seriously as anything more than a joke or a pleasant dream? Should we have a secondary "running gag" list to go with the fanon list to include things like Jace and Bolas' tryst and the fact that Parcher has been behind the scenes the entire time, the architect behind every major event in the last several millenia, all of which have been advancing his byzantine master plan, fulfilling some grand unkowable agenda none of us can hope to comprehend until it finally comes to fruition?
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I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
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Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
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Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
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For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
In no particular order, because I don't feel like organizing this stuff:

Urza had a core personality of white. However, he was most certainly NOT mono-white, and he most certainly picked up a multitude of colors over his long and storied life.

Devils, as far as we have ever gotten any explanation for it, are born of a demon's malice akin to Athena springing fully formed from Zeus's head. There is never any indication that they are born creatures comparable to half-demons.

Angels from specific setting do not have a bearing on every other angel any more so than Archons affect angels.

And now a rebuttal in defense of Tamiyo, you see, it is oft forgotten that the planeswalker's guide to Alara was a written work, and as part of the written work, they provided a framing device which I will reproduce thusly for you:

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A Planeswalker's Guide is your best resource for insider information on the Multiverse's most exotic planar destinations. Our expert planar travellers share their advice and experiences in an organized and convenient way, so you can spend your trip enjoying the sights and sounds of your destination rather than performing divination and rummaging through ancient tomes. Be sure to seek out other volumes in the Planeswalker's Guide series.

Providing that there in fact ARE planar travellers who go around and enter in data to declare a plane "Mostly Harmless."
To state that these are goals with which Tamiyo's personal story line up with is a mere formality. And thus I defend my ascertation that the works with which we have been graced thus far come from our porcelain skinned beauty.

As for Leshrac, I have mixed opinions. Truthfully, I see Yawgmoth trading off Leshrac's freedom for creating the initial planar bubble which Yawgmoth enlarged with flowstone. And Yawgmoth wasn't as brilliant as you want to remember, he stole plans whole from Glacian's mind and let the vat priests and the Demons design things while he slept in the core. He was a brilliant doctor, but he wasn't an artificer.
To expand on Tamiyo:

It's quite possible that Tamiyo doesn't write the guides herself. Rather, someone in Oboro or one of the other remaining knowledge centers like Mikokoro, Center of the Sea compiles her disjointed notes into something coherent that can be passed on to extraplanar travelors.

We also know that interplanar trade is a viable occupation, since Bo Levar ran an entire smuggling company before the Invasion. So, I don't think it's that farfetched to say that the Guides are actually a lucrative trade item across the Multiverse.


I like Iconic Guardians as a name for the triad of white creatures.

I'm still trying to figure out how the decline and fading of the Golden Age lines up with the rise of the Null Moon... There's got to be some way of reconciling that bit of information with current continuity.
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Maybe anti-canon needs: Rhys and Niv-Mizzet are not planeswalkers, despite them being characters in Duels of the Planeswalkers.
Evil doesn't always triumph. - Ajani Goldmane
Wasn't there also headcanon that revolved around how the Phyrexian Oil got to Mirrodin? Since we all agreed that "leaking-heartstone" is dumb.

> During the Phyrexian Invasion, there was an incomplete weapon that ended up on Dominaria. It was an attempt at a weaponized oil, but it was inactive on Dominaria. When the Miari got to Otaria, it picked up the oil and inadvertently brought it back to Mirrodin when Kamahl and Karn finally returned the Mirari to Mirrodin. While there, the mana-suns and the abundance of metal activated the oil, turning it into the mycosynth which drove Memnarch mad. It eventually worked its way to the core, where it became the virulent Phyrexian Oil present in Scars of Mirrodin. 
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I'd always assumed the oil got to Mirrodin stuck to the bottom of Karn's giant metal feet like a wad of old chewing gum.

Edit: I thought of a couple.
1. Clockturning is dumb.
2. The Liliana in Test of Metal is not the real Liliana, but rather a Liliana from an alternate reality.

Edit again:
3. The meat heart is similarly dumb. Venser transfered his soul, not his heart.
To expand on Tamiyo:

It's quite possible that Tamiyo doesn't write the guides herself. Rather, someone in Oboro or one of the other remaining knowledge centers like Mikokoro, Center of the Sea compiles her disjointed notes into something coherent that can be passed on to extraplanar travelors.

We also know that interplanar trade is a viable occupation, since Bo Levar ran an entire smuggling company before the Invasion. So, I don't think it's that farfetched to say that the Guides are actually a lucrative trade item across the Multiverse.


I like Iconic Guardians as a name for the triad of white creatures.

I'm still trying to figure out how the decline and fading of the Golden Age lines up with the rise of the Null Moon... There's got to be some way of reconciling that bit of information with current continuity.



Or perhaps on Ravnica or another planar hub. It is even possible that the planeswalker's guides are a consotrium thing (what better way to familiaize an operative than to hand them a guide to a plane).
… and then, the squirrels came.
Alright, so, additions to the list include (plus some that I just thought of):



  • Ravnica might become the next Dominian Nexus. We don't know the mechanics of how that works, but the stories, at the very least, seem to revolve more and more around Ravnica, and we haven't seen much of Dominaria in a long time. Is it possible that the Multiverse itself is shifting its focal point?

  • At the bare minimum, I think we can say confidently that Weaponized Oil was picked up somewhere on Dominaria after the Invasion and tracked, from their, to Mirrodin, although we're not sure how beyond "Karn done goofed again."

  • Test of Metal Liliana is an alternate reality Liliana.

  • We don't know exactly what went down underneath Mirrodin, but suffice to say that Venser's sacrifice for Karn in some way triggered either a spark transfer using Memnarch's defunct transfer device, or an awakening of Glacian's spark dormant within Karn. Venser's attempt to integrate his own heart into Karn was a symbolic rather than a literal magical act.

  • Mirrodin's time ran differently from the rest of the Multiverse during Memnarch's reign due to his madness warping the reality of the plane.

  • The knowledge or ability to create Rath was somehow coerced from the planeswalker Leshrac. Rath was created sometime after Leshrac was imprisoned by the planeswalker Taysir on the plane of Phyrexia, meaning that The Ineffable would have had an opportunity to either force Leshrac into creating the unstable, incomplete world, or drew upon Leshrac's knowledge somehow in order to make the core of the plane. It was later expanded by the Phyrexians by stealing races and materials from other worlds, but the roiling, warped nature of the plane seems to indicate genesis from a warped mind. We know The Ineffable was an opportunist of the highest order; it seems reasonable to suppose that he was an opportunist in this case as well.

  • Angels are dramatically different from plane to plane, as befitting a race largely magical in nature. Angels on one plane are not equivalent to angels on another plane. The same goes for other manafestations (hm, too much?), such as Demons and Archons.

  • The White manafestations (Archons, Angels, Lamassu) seem to appear in times of need, possibly in defense of the ideal, celestial spirit, or earthly power that they defend.

  • Devils and Demons are both manafestations, but Devils are dependent upon Demons. They originate with the rage and fury of a demon, and seem to spring fully formed from the demon's emotion, like Athena from the head of Zeus (I like that metaphor here).

  • Tezzeret will always be naked.




Anticanon:



  • What happens in Duels of the Planeswalkers stays in Duels of the Planeswalkers. It is not canonical, so Rhys and Niv Mizzet are not 'walkers, not all the colors of 'walkers are exactly accurate, and so on. If it's in DotP, check first before using it to support an argument.



Have I missed anything?

I'm not sure how to tackle Clockworking beyond just saying that it doesn't exist... or just ignoring it altogether.
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  • Ravnica might become the next Dominian Nexus. We don't know the mechanics of how that works, but the stories, at the very least, seem to revolve more and more around Ravnica, and we haven't seen much of Dominaria in a long time. Is it possible that the Multiverse itself is shifting its focal point?




Well we know that this can happen. The nexus used to be Equilor.


  • Tezzeret will always be naked.



Agreed
Also, he's Rob Zombie.

I'm not sure how to tackle Clockworking beyond just saying that it doesn't exist... or just ignoring it altogether.


I'm sure there's some way to interpret clockworking in a way that doesn't destroy all Magic canon forever and make Karn look like a chump, I just can't think of it right now.

Or perhaps on Ravnica or another planar hub. It is even possible that the planeswalker's guides are a Consortium thing (what better way to familiarize an operative than to hand them a guide to a plane).


I seem to remember (vaguely) that Jace mentions being told about Kamigawa before going there. I read it as Tezz or Baltrice just giving him a couple of nice-to-know facts, but technically it could be a guide.

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As for Leshrac, I have mixed opinions. Truthfully, I see Yawgmoth trading off Leshrac's freedom for creating the initial planar bubble which Yawgmoth enlarged with flowstone.


Yup. That was one of the initial scenarios as well, since in my mind, it was long since Yawgmoth got over the whole spark buisness.
There might be other possibilities as well...
And Yawgmoth wasn't as brilliant as you want to remember, he stole plans whole from Glacian's mind and let the vat priests and the Demons design things while he slept in the core. He was a brilliant doctor, but he wasn't an artificer.



On the contrary. You're talking about puny human he was. I'm talking about the god he became later on. He was recognized as a designer and creator of the oil - no wonder, looking at his record of researching and using disease for his purposes. And Urza would agree with his genius as well.

All that requires great insight into creating artifacts at the subcellar levels - blending alive and artificial components into one [which is also what the "flesh" of phyrexians was in large parts]. Yawgmoth himself also forged the soul-cutting weapons, what requires a great deal of insight into the methaphysics of the soul, which is equally rare.
Flowstone is yet another thing which I can't see anyone else but Yawgmoth could create - which requires insight into the mechanisms of plane creation, sustaining artificial planes, pushing off the planar boundaries, etc. When it's your natural ability [planeswalkers] - you don't have to understand it to do it. When you create technology that has to imitate it - you have to deeply understand its innerworkings and be able to employ that knowledge.

Providing that there in fact ARE planar travellers who go around and enter in data to declare a plane "Mostly Harmless."


If Tamiyo is only one of many, who collaboratively give their input into the Guides, then that changes much indeed.

Though I still have these two problems:
1. how can they extract so much information from such hermetic places like five factions on New Phrexia [literally - what's in mind of Praetors, and what's their philosophy]. Sure - magic, maybe mind-reading, and stuff. But I'm not sure it always feels right. Oldwalkers would have sometimes problems with this sort of activity.
2. if we're to treat Guids as in-world works, instead of Word of God, then it means, they might be wrong in some points. On the one hand, maybe it's for the best, since the screwcons are inevitable. On the other hand, I do prefer to treat them as Word of God cuz we have to base our info on Multiverse on some clear, solid foundations. So I see the framing device Wizards created just as a flavor enhancer rather than canon - at least for now.

Then again, it gives Tamiyo some purpose. Otherwise, she doesn't really seem very entertaining [I like her conceptually - she has a potential as a narrator of some stories, or as knowledgeable aid to other protagonists, but on her own, she doesn't seem to have much to offer].


We also know that interplanar trade is a viable occupation, since Bo Levar ran an entire smuggling company before the Invasion. So, I don't think it's that farfetched to say that the Guides are actually a lucrative trade item across the Multiverse.


Trading approach - me gusta.
Consortium approach isn't bad either. They would require these kinds of files to supervise their cells efficiently, know where to put, and where not to put new cells...
Except the Consortium is no longer a multi-planar organization.

Aside from that, Yawgmoth didn't create any of that technology. He stole it. He might have come to understand it, but he never thought it up himself. He was a thief of knowledge.

And now to respond to Keeper's post:
I don't believe the Venser explanation. Tacking it onto Memnarch is cheesy and the Glacian thing is too obscure. I think it's much simpler to say Venser gave up his soul to join with Karn's gestalt consciousness since he was already a big clump of souls from the Legacy Blast.

Aside from that, I don't think it's really needed to specify that angels and other manifestations are different from one plane to the next. That's pretty much canon.
Aside from that, I don't think it's really needed to specify that angels and other manifestations are different from one plane to the next. That's pretty much canon.



I thought it was.

Like how most of Zendikar's angels were basically robots, or how all of the Boros angels were duplicates of Razia.


And now to respond to Keeper's post:
I don't believe the Venser explanation. Tacking it onto Memnarch is cheesy and the Glacian thing is too obscure. I think it's much simpler to say Venser gave up his soul to join with Karn's gestalt consciousness since he was already a big clump of souls from the Legacy Blast.
.



Yeah, cause thats so much less obscure.

And also do we know what happened to cells other than the Ravnican one? 
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Except the Consortium is no longer a multi-planar organization.


That's true. But it still might have some isolated cells doing their job. Or the process might have been initialised there, and continuied in various forms after the recent events. I mean, some of these planes possibly must have been observed for years.

Aside from that, Yawgmoth didn't create any of that technology. He stole it. He might have come to understand it, but he never thought it up himself. He was a thief of knowledge.


Phyrexians did find and repurpose a lot of technology they came across [so did Urza, so does anyone], but your jump into conclucsion that they stole everything and didn't discover anything is baseless. Science always extrapolates from what it has already achieved. And so must have happened in Phyrexia. Wherever some of their knowledge came from, they built, built, and built upon it, more and more. Actively. That was their phillosophy, which drove them even in isolation [Tolaria].
Yeah, cause thats so much less obscure.

And also do we know what happened to cells other than the Ravnican one? 


It just requires less explaining.
If you say he was a clump of souls he absorbed during the Legacy Blast, it's just that simple.
You have to do more explaining about who Glacian was.

That's true. But it still might have some isolated cells doing their job. Or the process might have been initialised there, and continuied in various forms after the recent events. I mean, some of these planes possibly must have been observed for years.


There weren't really that many planeswalkers working for Tezzeret. A total of 7, and that included Tezzeret and Baltrice. As it was, Tezzeret was the only one who knew the location of all the cells and how to contact them. It's possible that the five bonus walkers running around could take control of their own cells the same way Jace did, but they were kept in the dark about where the other cells were located.

Phyrexians did find and repurpose a lot of technology they came across [so did Urza, so does anyone], but your jump into conclucsion that they stole everything and didn't discover anything is baseless. Science always extrapolates from what it has already achieved. And so must have happened in Phyrexia. Wherever some of their knowledge came from, they built, built, and built upon it, more and more. Actively. That was their phillosophy, which drove them even in isolation [Tolaria].



Oh sure, the Phyrexians improved what they found, no argument. But they did THAT while Yawgmoth was napping in the core. It wasn't until Urza's attack that Yawgmoth became active again. That's kind of a major part of Planeswalker.
It boils down to Phyrexians =/= Yawgmoth.
Oh sure, the Phyrexians improved what they found, no argument. But they did THAT while Yawgmoth was napping in the core. It wasn't until Urza's attack that Yawgmoth became active again. That's kind of a major part of Planeswalker.
It boils down to Phyrexians =/= Yawgmoth.



It's really hard to tell what Yawgmoth's "napping" was really all about. And if it was continuous for the whole time.
And its really doubtful he didn't have any influence, or didn't do anything [or didn't work through Phyrexians, as we've seen so many times, later on].
Invasion trilogy explicitly states that he did create soul-cutting weapons, forged them himself. Urza and Serra also stated [if we can believe them] that Rath was Yawgmoth's creation. Besides, there is no better wake up call than planeswalker trapped in your plane...

As for the Consortium, there are some more things to consider - the process of gathering information could be supervised by 'walkers, but didn't have to limit to them. Other employees could do some basic research as well.
We might not know of some of the 'walkers who worked with Consortium even from before Tezzeret took over [and some of them were just freelancers].

Also - when a cell on one plane has trouble, Bolas/Tezzeret might have always sent some reinforcements. Put 'walkers on a mission to reach the cell, deal with the troubles...
So some of them might have had knowledge of some other cells. Or I might be misremembering something from AoA...

I think though that a moonfolk would be actually more likely to work for herself and for her own kind.
Personal Fanon that literally took me months to come up with (seriously I put sweat, blood and tears into this):

IMAGE(http://singleblink.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sterling-archer1.jpg)

Planeswalker - Sterling Archer

Personal Plane of Choice: Ravnica

Set Debut: Return to Ravnica

Relationship Status: It's Complicated (LANAAAAA!)

Catch Phrase: Danger Zone

Reason for next Continuity Error: Uses Clockworking to go back in time and stop Venser from sacrificing himself so he can shoot him in the arm as a practical joke, and score some interplanar drugs in the process.

Interesting Tidbit: The mere mention of his full name makes the horrors of Innistrad cringe. Sterling Archer's name has been blessed by Avacyn herself, as he has known her in the biblical sense.

He's the first flip card Planeswalker!

Here's the flipped side picture:

IMAGE(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110415033356/archer/images/f/f9/ArcherDisguise2.png)
It's really hard to tell what Yawgmoth's "napping" was really all about. And if it was continuous for the whole time.
And its really doubtful he didn't have any influence, or didn't do anything [or didn't work through Phyrexians, as we've seen so many times, later on].
Invasion trilogy explicitly states that he did create soul-cutting weapons, forged them himself. Urza and Serra also stated [if we can believe them] that Rath was Yawgmoth's creation. Besides, there is no better wake up call than planeswalker trapped in your plane...


Still, this is the equivalent of saying Bill Gates personally invented every device Microsoft puts out.

As for the Consortium, there are some more things to consider - the process of gathering information could be supervised by 'walkers, but didn't have to limit to them. Other employees could do some basic research as well.
We might not know of some of the 'walkers who worked with Consortium even from before Tezzeret took over [and some of them were just freelancers].


Not really. Without being on the plane, all they can do is compile and compare notes. They can't really do much more than that to put things together. You have to remember that not even everyone that worked for Tezzeret knew there were multiple planes.
Aside from that, Tezzeret killed everybody that didn't swear allegiance to him, and he gave us the exact number of walkers who worked for him (with a few freelancers on a paid case basis).

Also - when a cell on one plane has trouble, Bolas/Tezzeret might have always sent some reinforcements. Put 'walkers on a mission to reach the cell, deal with the troubles...
So some of them might have had knowledge of some other cells. Or I might be misremembering something from AoA...


What kind of trouble would require immediate reinforcements? As evidenced by Jace and Baltrice, Tezzeret and the like are much more likely to send in trouble shooters, and it's usually done in a fashion that can't be traced back to the Consortium.
Aside from that, Tezzeret seemed much more likely to "clean house" in a cell got in trouble and do some talent scouting past that.
Aside from that, I don't think it's really needed to specify that angels and other manifestations are different from one plane to the next. That's pretty much canon.


Um... I added that one because you mentioned it. >_>

As for the Heart Transplant, there's a reason why I listed options rather than definite answers. And I intend to list ALL the options. "We need to explain more" isn't a good reason for excluding a potential explanation. I'm organizing this according to what seems to be broadly supported, and while the means of transfer isn't, the idea that the heart transplant was a symbolic act that triggered the spark [awakening/transfer] does seem to be pretty well accepted. So, I figure it makes sense to go the diplomatic route and put it in open terms.

I've tried to do the same thing elsewhere, leaving the possibilities largely open to interpretation. Let me know if I need to tweak language. I'll probably be tweaking anything in the direction of more open-endedness, though, and more possibilities.



Oh, and speaking of controversy....

Should we include MaRo's personal fanon that the Nephilim are not native to Ravnica? Technically it's not from Creative, so it counts as fanon, and it's a fun idea... (Although then we'll need to add an anticanon statement about the Nephilim not being #&$* Eldrazi...)


EDIT: Also, we know that Jace took over the Ravnican Consortium cell sometime after AoA, and that this is a drastic action for him considering the end of that book. Do we have a good explanation of why that character shift happened?

One that occurs to me is that Bolas may have, at some point, inserted a suggestion into his mind that drove him in that direction. This would also explain his inexplicable Ravnica trip, as well, AND has the benefit of elevating Bolas's schemes a bit above "smash planes, eat mana." I mean, he would have had to add that in as a contingency plan way back during the first meeting with Tezzeret and Jace. And we know he was poking around in Jace's mind that entire mind, and Tezzeret's as well.

Thoughts? Could this have been Bolas's ludicrously complicated backup plan?
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EDIT: Also, we know that Jace took over the Ravnican Consortium cell sometime after AoA, and that this is a drastic action for him considering the end of that book. Do we have a good explanation of why that character shift happened?



Because Creative willed it so. And they needed Jace on Zendikar.


On the other hand, if Jace rules the Ravnica cell (which is the main base of operation) he won't hesitate to use the other cells as soon as the situation demands it. I could easily imagine a story arc that follows Jace pretty much reestablishing the Consortium.

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It's really hard to tell what Yawgmoth's "napping" was really all about. And if it was continuous for the whole time.
And its really doubtful he didn't have any influence, or didn't do anything [or didn't work through Phyrexians, as we've seen so many times, later on].
Invasion trilogy explicitly states that he did create soul-cutting weapons, forged them himself. Urza and Serra also stated [if we can believe them] that Rath was Yawgmoth's creation. Besides, there is no better wake up call than planeswalker trapped in your plane...


Still, this is the equivalent of saying Bill Gates personally invented every device Microsoft puts out.


Lol, no. Not quite.
But he didn't sleep either. He also didn't steal, at least not everything. ;P
And he certainly built upon the knowledge he got educating himself earlier.
No reason really to dispute it.


As for the Consortium, there are some more things to consider - the process of gathering information could be supervised by 'walkers, but didn't have to limit to them. Other employees could do some basic research as well.
We might not know of some of the 'walkers who worked with Consortium even from before Tezzeret took over [and some of them were just freelancers].


Not really. Without being on the plane, all they can do is compile and compare notes. They can't really do much more than that to put things together. You have to remember that not even everyone that worked for Tezzeret knew there were multiple planes.


Walkers knew. And in the end - guides would be their compilations. And every cell had their own people, who could research on their own plane.

Aside from that, Tezzeret killed everybody that didn't swear allegiance to him, and he gave us the exact number of walkers who worked for him (with a few freelancers on a paid case basis).

Again, that's after Tezzeret even joined the Consortium. Bolas might have already started the process of research on the planes. Though I'm not really supporting the whole idea. But it is sure fun to look at possibilities.


Another personal fanon:
Squee is alive and probably a goblin king [if not god] somewhere on Dominaria. ^^

@Yxoque:

Well, yes, but I was hoping we could come up with an in-world answer. :P

@Ashtok:

I feel like that's practically actual canon. I mean, he's functionally immortal... so yeah, he's probably still hanging around somewhere.
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I say include the Nephilim theory from MaRo, and the anticannon. Well update the Marit Lage bit to just say that the only known Eldrazi are the three on Zendikar.
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Test of Metal Liliana is an alternate reality Liliana.


I would extend it further to say "Test of Metal" is a book retelling the events of an alternate reality that got clockworked out of existence by the nature of clockworking. After all, since it is the place that opened up the magic, we're just applying the logic of the novel to itself! It's not like anyone wants it to be canon...

We don't know exactly what went down underneath Mirrodin, but suffice to say that Venser's sacrifice for Karn in some way triggered either a spark transfer using Memnarch's defunct transfer device, or an awakening of Glacian's spark dormant within Karn. Venser's attempt to integrate his own heart into Karn was a symbolic rather than a literal magical act.


I know this is a topic that is being heavily debated, since what we have is: "Venser sacrificed himself to restore Karn's spark" and a long narrative that makes no sense and thus requires to be ignored. So really we have nothing concrete to go on to establish a new explanation for how that worked--which means that everybody's going to come up with different explanations they prefer. Obviously, we already have that dilemma, in the form of Glacian's Soulstone vs Legacy Souls, etc. But for what it's worth, I'll chip in with my idea, since I came up with it when I finished my outline of the Quest for Karn rewrite (I swear I will write it! I just need to finish this semester and then write my half of the Innistrad novel first, since, well... that's more relevant right now. But I'm not giving up on it!).

Basically, Venser, having seen what happened to the planeswalkers who sealed the rifts (Teferi), is aware that being drained of mana could cause them to lose their spark. So he figured he'd try to reawaken Karn's spark with excessive mana. He and Tezzeret worked together to build essentially a mana funnel, using plans vaguely based on remnants from Memnarch's soul traps, which would allow them to essentially jump-start Karn's spark once more. They didn't know if it would work, but it was the best shot they had. However, once Venser was channeling his mana as he had seen all the Oldwalkers do in closing the rifts, this time directed at Karn, Tezzeret realized that if Karn woke up now, the Praetors would walk all over him to claim the throne. His machinations weren't ready. So he stabbed Venser in the back to keep Karn from being freed. But just as death can awaken a latent spark, this time death acted on Venser's spark in a peculiar way: it shunted his spark through the spell into Karn. Venser dropped dead on the ground... and Karn was liberated.

Very out-of-the-blue, I know, and entirely dependent upon my rewrite of the planeswalkers' adventures on Mirrodin... but I thought I'd share it anyway. 
"There are probably seven persons, in all, who really like my work; and they are enough. I should write even if I were the only patient reader, for my aim is merely self-expression." ~H.P. Lovecraft

My Colors Are Green and Blue I value respect, honesty, acceptance, and trust. I love to tell stories and to experience new things. At my best, I am compassionate and creative. At my worst, I am detached and submissive. My enemies are Black and White.

Wow. That's a hell of a rewrite... I mean, I like it, but it's a hell of a rewrite.

Also, on a semi-related note, any thoughts about the guy that's also writing an Innistrad novel? Any chance of folding his efforts into your project?
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Wow. That's a hell of a rewrite... I mean, I like it, but it's a hell of a rewrite.

Also, on a semi-related note, any thoughts about the guy that's also writing an Innistrad novel? Any chance of folding his efforts into your project?


I know :p
I could share the outline if people are interested in seeing it, but I figured that since the original was just so riddled with weird, inexplicable stuff, it would be better to start with the premise (Venser, Koth, & Elspeth go to save Mirrodin from the Phyrexians and free Karn; Tezzeret goes to spy on Phyrexians and plot to take them over, five warring Phyrexian factions and a losing Mirran resistance) and build from the ground up from there.

Besides, Wintermute never included the Praetors and his Tezzeret was left with no real plan or resolution, so what he did with Tezzeret... basically made no sense. And we never got to see Tezzeret's Gambit or Duel: Elspeth vs Tezzeret.
"There are probably seven persons, in all, who really like my work; and they are enough. I should write even if I were the only patient reader, for my aim is merely self-expression." ~H.P. Lovecraft

My Colors Are Green and Blue I value respect, honesty, acceptance, and trust. I love to tell stories and to experience new things. At my best, I am compassionate and creative. At my worst, I am detached and submissive. My enemies are Black and White.

Honestly, too much help coming from Tezzeret. He was really there to be a thorn in everyone's side.

As for Jace, Brady already told us about that when I basically called him out on the "What the hell hero!?"
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Also, Blast from the past and long forgotten faces if you click on that.
And we know Bolas nudged him in the direction of Zendikar, but not in the way that he was absolutely sure it would work. He, as he put it, had to play the odds.
I say include the Nephilim theory from MaRo, and the anticannon



It wasn't a theory, it was a joke.
… and then, the squirrels came.
It might not be necessary to explain why Jace picked up the Ravnica Consortium cell.
But people still complain about Jace's trip to Zendikar seeming meaningless and out of character.
Maybe that was the suggestion Bolas planted in Jace's mind years prior.
It would have to have sat for years untouched at the bottom of his subconscious, and only been triggered when Garruk mentioned Zendikar by name to Jace and let him know how to find it. JAce hears "Zendikar," sees a map, suddenly decides for no discernable reason to check out the Eye of Ugin. And bouncing a scroll-map between two neophyte 'walkers makes a lot more sense when you actually know both of them are going to follow it.
He did say he had to "play the odds" on whether Jace would follow through and act on Bolas' implanted suggestion, but he might have been talking about guessing whether Jace, an exceptional mind mage, would notice tampering in his own mind. He might not have reason to look that closely, but Bolas' package would have to sit undisturbed for a very long time.
Or maybe this makes no sense. Either way.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
It might not be necessary to explain why Jace picked up the Ravnica Consortium cell.
But people still complain about Jace's trip to Zendikar seeming meaningless and out of character.
Maybe that was the suggestion Bolas planted in Jace's mind years prior.
It would have to have sat for years untouched at the bottom of his subconscious, and only been triggered when Garruk mentioned Zendikar by name to Jace and let him know how to find it. JAce hears "Zendikar," sees a map, suddenly decides for no discernable reason to check out the Eye of Ugin. And bouncing a scroll-map between two neophyte 'walkers makes a lot more sense when you actually know both of them are going to follow it.
He did say he had to "play the odds" on whether Jace would follow through and act on Bolas' implanted suggestion, but he might have been talking about guessing whether Jace, an exceptional mind mage, would notice tampering in his own mind. He might not have reason to look that closely, but Bolas' package would have to sit undisturbed for a very long time.
Or maybe this makes no sense. Either way.



Or maybe this makes no sense.

Jace was already researching the map before Garruk busted in. Something he hadn't dealt with in THREE YEARS and was strictly business for him at the time. He had no reason to be interested in Chandra and Bolas would have had to have already been manipulating the situation as far back as his first year with the Consortium since that was when he manipulated Chandra into taking the scroll in the first place.

And even then, the chances that both Chandra AND Jace would show up at the same moment were astronomical (like way out of the believable range.)

This... is Chewbacca. He's a wookie living on the forest moon of Endor with a buncha Ewoks.
Barinellos, can you just repost what he says? I'm having trouble finding it since my posts-per-page setting seems to be different from yours.

And what would you say is a better explanation? I mean, personally, I like Yanmato's. It makes a lot more sense, both in the setting and in the characterization, than "This just sort of happened to work." It's farfetched, sure. But it's actually less farfetched than the story arc as it currently stands.
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