04/13/2012 LD: "Walk For Two"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Well shucks, looks like he's going to be a fun guy to play around with. Also, Tibalt's a great name for a dastardly individual. Has he ever killed a guy named Mercutio? 
/nerdgasm! :D


Dunno how useful he'll actually be, but the flavor is great, and the art is awesome.
So there's a soratami and a devil planeswalker. In Avacyn Restored. Who knew?
Plus—I mean the guy is half devil, which is pretty sweet in and of itself.

Yes, it is pretty sweet. Too bad we didn't get anything more about WHO this planeswalker is other than that blurb. Kind of defeats the entire point of planeswalkers, seeing as they were created to be the game's recurring characters. Personalities to which the fans are supposed to be able to relate, which are supposed to get fans invested in the story.

Man I miss Savor the Flavor...
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I'm pretty underwhelmed, his - abilities seem like they will rarely be used, i think they should of pushed the envelope and made him more playable in red by changing his +1 to the following:
+1 discard a card at random, then draw a card
This would make him much better in topdecking red decks.
I'm very happy to see red cards that can play for the long game, instead of just the latest form of Sligh.   We'll have to see how supported it all is, though.

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I've never had a planeswalker make me mad before with how bad it was, but tibold is just TERRIBLE.  He doesn't do anything you want a walker to do, he doesn't protect himself, he doesn't even burn stuff off the board when he comes down, at least chandra always had that option if you were desperate red decks NEVERwant this card there are always going to be better two drops even if they are just 2 one drops.  ALSO seriously in what world do they see this guy surviving past a turn or two, we live in the world of delver and invisible stalker TERRIBLE WIZARDS why would red decks want to pay two mana to cast temporarl mastery for their opponent, cause thats all tibalt is, a free turn for them.
 Man I miss Savor the Flavor...




Yea me too... I mean why the hell is this devil planewalking in the first place? I think they should have saved this card for next week so he could have gotten a proper background, like Tamiyo.

Also the existence of this guy makes me think Lightning Bolt will definitely not be back in M13... frowny face.

Tibalt seems like an interesting character and a mediocre planeswalker. Time will tell have playable he is in the game, but we will probably never hear all that much about who he is. And I hope he is the last planeswalker for this set.

Honestly, when I saw the booster art with him on it, I got excited and was hoping for a Devil Captain. I really want to try a Devil deck and they actually made quite a few of them in the first two sets of Innistrad (and Vexing Devil looks quite playable).  It would have been interesting to see a simple Devil captain just to give Devil tribal a little support (since it is actually a relatively newly developed creature type, with only one or two from previous sets). Oh well, there goes one dream turned into another planeswalker I really don't want to play.
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I'd like to push back at the negative feedback so far. I really don't think he is as terrifble as people are saying. A midrangey deck that can take full advantage of the card advantage would be happy with him at any point in the game. Even a hyper aggressive red deck may like this on turn two, provided your opponent doesn't have a creature you can't kill, since he gets rid of you excess lands, drawing you into gas, and represents the potential for a large chunk of damage. He gets worse against delver or on later turns than 2 for some decks which probably will keep him out of most maindecks, but at the very least, ANY planeswalker on turn two is a blowout against true control decks, were such a thing to become popular. He's not great, but certainly playable if the sort of decks he wants are also playable.
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Well, he's obviously not seeing any standard play, at least not until... the entire block rotates out? So yeah, not happening in standard... or modern... or legacy... or vintage...

Where is this guy supposed to see play? Commander? I mean, he's ok there, but not amazing. Just another planeswalker durdle that dies to a 1/X (or is at least completely negated by one). Even if you're getting benefit from discarding the card (flashback, reanimation, etc), this guy doesn't really seem to do much. Faithless Looting costs one mana less, and draws you two cards right off the bat! As for his other abilities... well, if you're activating them, you're already winning, so meh.
I actually kinda like this guy.

I like that he's kinda subtle, and tricky, good for a devil planeswalker. Also, he's a devil planeswalker. Which is nifty in and of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him find a home in some deck at some point. My best guess would be combo. Load up your graveyard with red rituals with this guy, then cast past in flames.

Or maybe a sideboard card against draw-go. Drop this guy turn two on the play before they get mana leak, load up on loyalty, then whack them with a sudden impact.

Maybe this guy doesn't cut the mustard, but I wouldn't dismiss him yet. Don't think he'll see much play in this standard meta with Temporal Mastery-Delver running wild though. Invisible stalker kills this guy in no time flat. But I wouldn't be surprised to see him show up in one of the larger formats somewhere.

I'm just happy to see something interesting without attempting to be overpowered like some other cards we've seen this week.

EDIT: Also, anyone notice that this set seems to have a bit of a randomness subtheme? Between this and Miracle? Two mana is pretty aggressive costing, so again I wouldn't be suprised to see this see play. Maybe he and TM can go in the same deck with noxious revival. The answer for how to get those extra TMs out of your hand if you're running 4.
EDIT 2: Add bonfire of the damned from ChannelFireball for more Miracle fun with this sort of deck.

Are there any silver bullets powerful enough that a Silver bullets graveyard deck might be viable? Something like

4 Tibalt
4 Faithless looting
4 Noxious revival
4 reclaim
4 TM
4 Bonfire
16 Silver bullets
20 land
Tibalt seems like an interesting character and a mediocre planeswalker. Time will tell have playable he is in the game, but we will probably never hear all that much about who he is. And I hope he is the last planeswalker for this set.

From Mark Rosewater's tumblr:
paperparachute asked: Are you allowed to tell us how many planeswalkers there are going to be in AVR now? Or at least tell us when they're going to be previewed?

There are two. They should be previewed within the next two weeks.


So yes, he's the last planeswalker for this set.
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Well it seem Mr Devil is getting alot of hate... Better get em while he cheap ish XD
Any magic character that has a combover is a b.a. You've got Stromkirk Noble, Doom Blade, 2012 Zombie Token, Garruk Relentless... ect. Theres a crapton. I can't wait for this card to come out, I hope its not competitive so I can buy him for cheap. I want to slip him in with my Red Black Vampire deck.  Yea, its unfortunate that he doesn't spit out any defensive creatures but red should have enough removal to make due. This card to me is ridiculous.
Be honest, Zac.  If this cost UU, he'd be a straight-up Merfolk Looter and have two other powerful abilities to go along with it.  Right?

You pitted Incinerate against Snapcaster Mage, Mana Leak, Phantasmal Image, and Invisible Stalker?  Seriously?  Snapcaster alone is winning games in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and even Vintage.  I think the other colors can use more of an extra push from time to time.

With that in mind, I strongly feel Tibalt didn't need to have discard that is random.  I won't completely denounce the card at this point, though.  I'll reserve full judgment until I see the rest of the set and get to play with it.  Hopefully, the card you hinted at will help him along.  Right now, I will say that I am somewhat disappointed, because he doesn't seem very useful in current Standard decks.

On the postive side, filtering effects in red are a good idea.  But please note that if you're going to give blue access to more aggressive cards than red (Delver vs. Waif), you should give red the more powerful version of the looting effect in exchange.  Blue was already more powerful overall.  It doesn't need to get the stronger creatures AND keep the better ability.
Having it be mediocre isn't what's making me want to drag the people who made this set for a little 'sit down.'

Take a look at this card www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

Than take a look at Dungeon and Dragon's Tieflings...

Excuse me sirs....and madams...but didn't you say that you WEREN'T going to combine the brands?!

Tibault looks like a [REDACTED] Tiefling to me, do you?!

David Foxfire (Gonterman) of Foxfire Studios http://foxfirestudios.net

For red alone, this isn't horrible good... in R/U, however... maybe this will see play as a turn 3 or 4 drop.

Ability A) Card Filtering is something that red and blue both want. They want to get rid of cards that aren't doing anything (like land) for things that do something. If all it is is a one turn Loot, I think it'll be fine. Sure there are better things to do with your mana, but it can get the guy ignored for a few turns as it starts building up.

Abilty B) Storm Seeker. It's an eh ability. It's been doing pretty well when you put it on a stick. I don't like it here.


Ability C) Super Act of Treason. This is what you want to build for. While B might win you the game, C is the one that swings the control battle into your favor.

Still, I am not sure if I want to build that deck. I think that it could be good, as it's not a horribly important target to destroy by itself until it starts to threaten. I think it's just really hard to judge until it's put into the right deck.
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I've never had a planeswalker make me mad before with how bad it was, but tibold is just TERRIBLE.  He doesn't do anything you want a walker to do, he doesn't protect himself, he doesn't even burn stuff off the board when he comes down, at least chandra always had that option if you were desperate red decks NEVERwant this card there are always going to be better two drops even if they are just 2 one drops.  ALSO seriously in what world do they see this guy surviving past a turn or two, we live in the world of delver and invisible stalker TERRIBLE WIZARDS why would red decks want to pay two mana to cast temporarl mastery for their opponent, cause thats all tibalt is, a free turn for them.


R/U Delver and Frites both might like this. 

And how is it Time Walk if they spend time attacking him. He just gained you virtual life, dug you a little depper into the deck, and maybe set up your yard a bit.
 
And really, what did you expect out of a 2 mana walker.
 

Having it be mediocre isn't what's making me want to drag the people who made this set for a little 'sit down.'

Take a look at this card www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

Than take a look at Dungeon and Dragon's Tieflings...

Excuse me sirs....and madams...but didn't you say that you WEREN'T going to combine the brands?!

Tibault looks like a [REDACTED] Tiefling to me, do you?!


I can see where your coming from a little but those are obviously dragons while this is obviously a devil.


Anyway, I like how the closing was talking about how next week will have an article about being a hater. Almost like they knew this card would get a lot of hate. 

Having it be mediocre isn't what's making me want to drag the people who made this set for a little 'sit down.'

Take a look at this card www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

Than take a look at Dungeon and Dragon's Tieflings...

Excuse me sirs....and madams...but didn't you say that you WEREN'T going to combine the brands?!

Tibault looks like a [REDACTED] Tiefling to me, do you?!

That is my thought too, but it's pretty hard to have "Half Demon" and not come out Tiefling, as that is exactly the definition of Tiefling.

I don't think this is an unforgivable sin, but it should be noted the artist himself tends to work a lot in the game industry, and I just think he grabbed the closest source material that popularizes  the archetype.

As long as he's the only one, I don't see any real issue. I mean, there's a certaint amount of bleed with all the freaking dragons anyway, isn't there?
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So did anyone do the exercise suggested in the article and see what they could come up with for a 2-mana red 'walker?  Here's where I ended up (after admittedly only a minute or two of thinking):

RR
Planeswalker
+1: Deal one damage to target player.
-2: Copy the next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6: Deal six damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
2
The problem I see with it is its super super narrow and the abilities don't compliment each other.

I've messed around with a burning vengeance deck in standard and thats the closest thing to a currently existing standard deck I can see him fitting into the Double red makes it to difficult to shoe horn unburial rites into and still expect to consistantly be able to go off.

I'm going to test it in legacy aggro loam I can see something like turn 1: mountain + mox diamond followed by this guy, use +1 discard life from the loam being pretty strong but the discard is random if it was a proper loot effect it would be so much better. The only upside to the +1 is you get an extra dredge trigger every turn.

In modern loam I think it's unplayable. Since there is pretty much no turn 1 mana acceleration (even chrome mox is banned in modern) you're not casting this guy till turn 2 and by then you're likely facing an opposing tarmogoyf.

The -4 is way to much cost should have been -2 for the same effect. By the time you have 4 loyalty (if you even get that far) and are ready to do it you've telegraphed it a mile away, If you could drop him down the turn after your opponent taps out to draw a punch of cards you could have sacrificed him to really pnish them, sudden impact isn't good if your opponent see's it coming a mile away.

Top decking this guy late game is bad, if I'm ahead he draws a card and possibly discards something I want and if I'm behind his +1 does nothing to help me improve my board position. The times you are actually excited about casting this guy is super super narrow. I'd be surprised if he see's play outside of very very limited architypes kinda like Chandra Ablaze (she saw play in what 1 extended deck briefly). I think theres something about Red planeswalkers you guys just seem to always miss on them.
Plus—I mean the guy is half devil, which is pretty sweet in and of itself.

Yes, it is pretty sweet. Too bad we didn't get anything more about WHO this planeswalker is other than that blurb. Kind of defeats the entire point of planeswalkers, seeing as they were created to be the game's recurring characters. Personalities to which the fans are supposed to be able to relate, which are supposed to get fans invested in the story.

Man I miss Savor the Flavor...


Seconded.  Even if this isn't a flavor column, they could have at least given us a bit of the guy's story, like Top Decks did.
"So did anyone do the exercise suggested in the article and see what they could come up with for a 2-mana red 'walker?  Here's where I ended up (after admittedly only a minute or two of thinking):

RR
Planeswalker
+1: Deal one damage to target player.
-2: Copy the next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6: Deal six damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
2 "

Hmm interesting thinking process you got there, you didn't happend to get all those abilities from different versions of Chandra, now did you? ;)
I've never had a planeswalker make me mad before with how bad it was, but tibold is just TERRIBLE.  He doesn't do anything you want a walker to do, he doesn't protect himself, he doesn't even burn stuff off the board when he comes down, at least chandra always had that option if you were desperate red decks NEVERwant this card there are always going to be better two drops even if they are just 2 one drops.  ALSO seriously in what world do they see this guy surviving past a turn or two, we live in the world of delver and invisible stalker TERRIBLE WIZARDS why would red decks want to pay two mana to cast temporarl mastery for their opponent, cause thats all tibalt is, a free turn for them.


You are right, especially being released in the same set as Vexing Devil I'd drop two devils over him any day. Hell, I'm having a hard time of any two re one drops I would take him over. that is not a good state for a walker to be in.
If I was designing a red walker for 2 mana maybe something like

+1 'Pings creature or player for 1'
-2 shock
-3 pillage

Who knows thats probably too over powered, when was the last time good LD was printed?
I think people are overlooking the general direction this set pushes standard. Remember how the DKA really pushed White/Black down our throats? I think Wizards is trying to push U/R in AVR. Using Tibalt in a U/R (maybe Delver) shell with tons of flashback, Snapcasters, and Miracle card seems like a great idea. Or put him in a more controlling shell with some kind of combo where you make your opponent draw tons of cards so you can kill them with Tibalts second ability (something Zack hinted at in the article as yet to be revealed).
If I were designing a two-mana red 'walker, I'd do something like this:

Tumana      RR
Planeswalker - Tumana
+1: Tumana deals 1 damage to each player.
-1: Discard a card, then draw a card.
-5: Tap each creature you control and it deals damage equal to its power to target opponent.
2
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The planeswalker makes sense. He is a devil. You really can't trust him so you get to draw a card and lose a random card. 

at 2 CMC he is a card draw engine if you have 1 or more cards in your hand plus that -4 "can give me the edge to win." 

With 192 cards to go I believe, it is hard to tell if this guy will do well or not. I would not having a pair. 

No one talks about the Art. Who is not loving the card art so far?      
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with those who find this guy to be underwhelming.
One of the major things that made those 3 drop walkers great was that their -2s were useful (and reasonable), and even if that was all you suceeded in doing with your three mana, you weren't set back by too much and they were still good late game. Liliana of the veil is good enough to where, late game, she sets up a lockout on a player by herself. Thing is that Tibalt has no real bearing on the late game and he's only marginally good early-mid game, and only in one or two decks. I suppose my biggest dislike with him is his second ability, since it takes several turns to even get to it and by that point, its not likely to be relevant.
I think if I were to design him I would go with the following:

Tibalt      RR
Planeswalker - Tibalt
+1: discard a card at random, then draw a card.

-2:  Target player reveals a card at random from their hand. Tibalt deals damage to that player equal to that card's converted mana cost.

-6: Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. Untap them. They gain haste until end of turn.

2

I think this redesign is more conducive for Tibalt to atleast see consistent play in a variety of decks, while not being over powered with respect to his mana cost and I think the changes to the first two abilities still nicely reflect his flavor as a half-devil.
Plus—I mean the guy is half devil, which is pretty sweet in and of itself.

Yes, it is pretty sweet. Too bad we didn't get anything more about WHO this planeswalker is other than that blurb. Kind of defeats the entire point of planeswalkers, seeing as they were created to be the game's recurring characters. Personalities to which the fans are supposed to be able to relate, which are supposed to get fans invested in the story.

Man I miss Savor the Flavor...



Totally agree. I love the development side of this article, but I really wish we'd get some background info on these planeswalkers.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Flavor bonus: Miracle can only trigger on the first card you draw in a turn. If you're drawing one extra card a turn, you have a 50% chance of whiffing on a Miracle. So the last card you'd want to use with Miracles is the devil planeswalker!
"So did anyone do the exercise suggested in the article and see what they could come up with for a 2-mana red 'walker?  Here's where I ended up (after admittedly only a minute or two of thinking):

RR
Planeswalker
+1: Deal one damage to target player.
-2: Copy the next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6: Deal six damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
2 "

Hmm interesting thinking process you got there, you didn't happend to get all those abilities from different versions of Chandra, now did you? ;)



Huh.  I guess I did.  Weird that I didn't even notice, though probably it's because I tend to forget that Chandra Aflame actually exists.  Well, I did actually notice that the +1 was really close to Chandra Nalaar's, but mine is significantly weaker and should play quite differently.  For the others, I was modifying Fork and Inferno, two classic red cards.  (To be fair, I did only spend a couple of minutes on it, and these were the first reasonable ideas that popped into my head...maybe because they'd been done before.  Low-hanging fruit, and all that.)

I actually think mine is a pretty reasonable route to go, though.  It's pretty clear that with a 2 CMC 'walker, the first ability has to be a +1 if it's to be all-upside, since gaining more loyalty than that would probably be unfair, but the +1 can't provide card advantage for the same reason, so I thought "ping the opponent" is about the only thing that fits, or at least the most obvious one (something like "Add R to your mana pool" could also work).

I figured the starting loyalty couldn't really be more than 1 or 2, and I decided on 2 since if it wasn't going to protect or replace itself immediately, having it consistently just die to an opposing 1- or 2-drop seemed pretty bad.  At that point the Fork ability fit nicely for the -2, since Fork gives it a psuedo-defensive ability (copy your burn spells to help clear out opposing creatures), albeit one that requires a bit of outside assistence, plus I liked the fact that you could just use the entire planeswalker as a sorcery-speed Fork if there was no way you'd be able to protect it against the opposing board.

The ultimate, I admit, I pretty much just grabbed the first big, expensive, but not game-ending red spell that popped into my mind.  Well, actually the first was Fireball, but I rejected that because Chandra Nalaar had already done it. (Ironic, I guess, that I ended up ripping off a different Chandra's ability.)  There's probably room for improvement here.  Still, I like my version better than the one they've previewed, plagiarism and all.  Theirs just seems so random, with none of the abilities working together at all.  Plus, I hate discarding my cards at random.

Here's another attempt, going in a different direction, although I still like my first one better:

So-and-So, the Dragon Shaman
RR
+1: Add R to your mana pool.
+0: Target creature gains "R: +1/+0 until end of turn" until end of turn.
-4: You may put a red creature from your hand into play without paying its casting cost.  It gains haste until end of turn.
2

My only problem with this one is that the first ability feels somewhat green rather than red, and the second a little clunky.  Not quite sure how to resolve this.  Still, not bad for a quick attempt, if I do say so myself.  I think I like this one better than Tibalt, too.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with those who find this guy to be underwhelming.
One of the major things that made those 3 drop walkers great was that their -2s were useful (and reasonable), and even if that was all you suceeded in doing with your three mana, you weren't set back by too much and they were still good late game. Liliana of the veil is good enough to where, late game, she sets up a lockout on a player by herself. Thing is that Tibalt has no real bearing on the late game and he's only marginally good early-mid game, and only in one or two decks. I suppose my biggest dislike with him is his second ability, since it takes several turns to even get to it and by that point, its not likely to be relevant.
I think if I were to design him I would go with the following:

Tibalt      RR
Planeswalker - Tibalt
+1: discard a card at random, then draw a card.

-2:  Target player reveals a card at random from their hand. Tibalt deals damage to that player equal to that card's converted mana cost.

-6: Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. Untap them. They gain haste until end of turn.

2

I think this redesign is more conducive for Tibalt to atleast see consistent play in a variety of decks, while not being over powered with respect to his mana cost and I think the changes to the first two abilities still nicely reflect his flavor as a half-devil.



What you and a lot of other people are failing to realize is the most obvious thing, that this guy is a 2 mana planeswalker. You are comparing him to 3 mana planeswalkers, and the difference is huge. If he was anything better than he is, he'd be overpowered.

The best way to design a 2 mana planeswalker is to make it ignorable for the most part. And in this, they have succeded in my opinion. The +1 is marginal/situational card advantage your opponent  doesn't need to answer right away and his other 2 abilities are easily rendered null by playing around them (dumping your hand/having no (or just one) creatures). And this is where they succeded, by making it so you can ignore only one of his - abilities, not both at once. It's this small detail that makes him both interesting and useful.

I'm not the biggest fan of this guy ('cept for the artwork/flavour) but you guys saying he's badly designed/too weak is just unfair.

As for uses, right now the only deck I'd put him in is my Burning Vengeance deck, and maybe a 2-of at that.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
i have no idea how playable he is or not, but i LOVE the art! he has my most favourite aspect of red: that half-cocky, half-playful expression on his face absolutely slays me. AND he has a sense of fashion, too. he's unique in being a two-mana planeswalker. finally, his name rocks :-) i'd be really happy to open one up!
Woohoo! I was hoping when I first saw this guy's art teased that he'd either be a Legendary or a Planeswalker! Now we've got a(nother) Planeswalker from Innistrad! And a devil of one at that...! I'm loving the art and flavor. The fact that he's half devil and he's got the gothic human attire... And his haircut makes me feel like he's the artsy-punk of the Planeswalker crew. Which kind of goes with his abilities too.. He helps you out, but not that much, he's kind of a little upstart that you have to protect until he grows into his own. 

I dunno about playability in competitive arenas, but I'm loving his look for sure. I'm still pretty green to Magic, but that may allow me to think outside the box in order to build a home for this guy... and how appropriate for my username... I get a devil Planeswalker. 

Plus his name is Tibalt. That friggin' great. Shakespeare reference? Sold. Guess I really did get "my" Planeswalker. Now I'll have to prove his worth to any haters.

Plus—I mean the guy is half devil, which is pretty sweet in and of itself.

Yes, it is pretty sweet. Too bad we didn't get anything more about WHO this planeswalker is other than that blurb. Kind of defeats the entire point of planeswalkers, seeing as they were created to be the game's recurring characters. Personalities to which the fans are supposed to be able to relate, which are supposed to get fans invested in the story.

Man I miss Savor the Flavor...



I miss Savor the Flavor too, but I think we'll get to learn a lil something about this dude. I mean, Part II of "The World of Avacyn" has his picture on it, just like Part III has Tamiyo's... So fear not. I don't think they'd drop some new Planeswalkers on us without giving them some story... Does this mean our inevitable Vs Deck for this set will be Tibalt vs Tamiyo? We've already seen Liliana v Garruk, and Sorin doesn't seem to be doing anything, so perhaps we get the two new kids on the block...?

I hope they do give us as much story as possible to finish out Innistrad. Wish Doug Beyer waited until after Avacyn Restored was done with to retire his column... :/

But he did say he'd still have some postings here and there.

In any case, I'm psyched to see this guy, personally.

EDIT:
Also, the Planeswalker's Guide to Avacyn Restored Part I ends with "New Evil Arises" with a picture of Vexing Devil. We are clearly going to be seeing some Devil action in Part II, so have no fear... I think we'll learn some good stuff about Tibalt yet. I mean we have to at least find out how a dude gets to be half-devil... One doesn't exactly seek out mating with a devil now do they...? I'm hoping for a roguish-trickster personality with this guy. Hope to see him making plans and pulling one over on others... he doesn't have incredible strength, so he utilizes his wiles to get what he wants... hmm.. I see him coming together already..
As a fan of RDW, I want to defend this card. The planeswalker mechanic is very powerful by itself, this is why they don't print planeswalkers at a rarity other than mythic. So, a 2 mana planeswalker must be somewhat weak.

But Tibalt is not that bad. With his +1 ability, you play the lottery, and you can either get card advantage or not, but never losing card advantage. You can get card advantage discarding a flashback card (like Geistflame) or a Chandra's Phoenix, or you can even be lucky enough to discard something useless like a Thunderous Wrath in your hand. Then, you can be unlucky and discard the best card in your hand... But, well, it's RDW, there's no indispensable card.

And playing this lottery is the price you have to pay to activate his other abilities. His -4 ability is nearly always dealing four or five damage, so you've dealt a lot of damage for RR, and maybe gained a bit of card advantage through the process. If you are only able to deal one or two damage for RR, maybe it would be better to resist a bit more and try to activate his finisher to finish off your opponent, or otherwise leave him or her in a very awkward position.

The major problem I see is that he can be easily killed the turn after coming, with one of those detestable Insectile Aberrations, but well, you can kill the Delver before it transforms with, erm, Gut Shot. Of course he's not a great planeswalker, but he's not that bad neither.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with those who find this guy to be underwhelming.
One of the major things that made those 3 drop walkers great was that their -2s were useful (and reasonable), and even if that was all you suceeded in doing with your three mana, you weren't set back by too much and they were still good late game. Liliana of the veil is good enough to where, late game, she sets up a lockout on a player by herself. Thing is that Tibalt has no real bearing on the late game and he's only marginally good early-mid game, and only in one or two decks. I suppose my biggest dislike with him is his second ability, since it takes several turns to even get to it and by that point, its not likely to be relevant.
I think if I were to design him I would go with the following:

Tibalt      RR
Planeswalker - Tibalt
+1: discard a card at random, then draw a card.

-2:  Target player reveals a card at random from their hand. Tibalt deals damage to that player equal to that card's converted mana cost.

-6: Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. Untap them. They gain haste until end of turn.

2

I think this redesign is more conducive for Tibalt to atleast see consistent play in a variety of decks, while not being over powered with respect to his mana cost and I think the changes to the first two abilities still nicely reflect his flavor as a half-devil.



What you and a lot of other people are failing to realize is the most obvious thing, that this guy is a 2 mana planeswalker. You are comparing him to 3 mana planeswalkers, and the difference is huge. If he was anything better than he is, he'd be overpowered.

The best way to design a 2 mana planeswalker is to make it ignorable for the most part. And in this, they have succeded in my opinion. The +1 is marginal/situational card advantage your opponent  doesn't need to answer right away and his other 2 abilities are easily rendered null by playing around them (dumping your hand/having no (or just one) creatures). And this is where they succeded, by making it so you can ignore only one of his - abilities, not both at once. It's this small detail that makes him both interesting and useful.

I'm not the biggest fan of this guy ('cept for the artwork/flavour) but you guys saying he's badly designed/too weak is just unfair.

As for uses, right now the only deck I'd put him in is my Burning Vengeance deck, and maybe a 2-of at that.


The problem with him is that early game your opponent has fewer targets to choose from and doesn't have to ignore him. Late game he's too little too late especially if he is up against the kind of decks that give his minus abilities their most value. I would say that at his best Tibalt is a less versatile Jhoira of the Ghitu and mostly he is an inferior faithless looting Of course, I could be wrong and he rocks tournaments but hoping your opponent ignores a planeswalker for three turns and doesn't win while eating two red mana is a lot to ask. 

I think the part that I am having a hard time reconciling is the random discard characteristic of his + ability. If one mana lets you dig to and choose what you keep a walker sure as hell better let you choose what you discard. 

I play a lot of casual formats with my playgroup. This would be a nice twist on the theme for a Kalia the Vast Commander deck. THAT is a deck where the cards in the library will probably be better than what is in hand. Second, red pairs well with any color, other than white, for a fun, multiplayer, cake-town deck. I mean Sparta; I mean madness! Derp!
So did anyone do the exercise suggested in the article and see what they could come up with for a 2-mana red 'walker?  Here's where I ended up (after admittedly only a minute or two of thinking):

RR
Planeswalker
+1: Deal one damage to target player.
-2: Copy the next instant or sorcery spell you play this turn.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
-6: Deal six damage to target player and each creature he or she controls.
2

So...you took Chandra, the Firebrand, then to compensate for dropping her cmc by 2 you weakened her +1 (while still making it a copy of a red PW, just Chandra Nalaar instead). Originality wut?

Anywho. I guess Tibalt fits into Modern Living End pretty nicely...? Can't think of anything else offhand that'd take him over a Shrine of Burning Rage. Of course, even that deck's not great for him what with the silly random discard that might drop your Violent Outburst into the yard....Really, he's obviously meant to have a worthless +1 that just ticks up to his -4 clock, but Shrine of Burning Rage does that infinitely better because his +1 is often actively detrimental.