Baja's warforged fighter: Cuts

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This is Cuts. He is a work in progress. I don't level up ahead of time. I just pick things as I go. 

Cuts was designed to be a killing machine for war. With no great war to fight, no legacy to claim, and no culture, Cuts integrated into society. For a while he was utilized by people who had use of his focus on work. Over the time of peace he has been laying relatively dormant. However, when he met the Goliath named Nithaulk, he began developing selfawareness at an exponential rate. When he developed the ability to discern a desire to want more from life, nobody really could argue with him.

Trying to detain a sentient being like him didn’t really seem like a great idea to his employer. He doesn’t need to sleep. So guarding one’s self from him would be very difficult. Not to mention he is always armed with two longswords and a shield which he often carries on his back.

He joined Nithaulk to continue his personal growth. They soon headed east across the Vast. 


--------------------------------------


When Cuts was made, his current body was fused with the soul of a long past warrior. Cuts has no memory of his past life, or the existence of it. He does have emotions now in his awakened state. This is something that not everyone knows. He doesn’t want to reveal his true self. He hides it behind the steel facade.


The warrior he used to be had a fair living as a knight a millennium before. He had a family, and was a human. His duties for the old kingdom earned him a nice lot of land, and several serfs to work it. His name was Martin Dormeax. His wife was named Anna. His father was a blacksmith, and his mother did not have a job. She did plenty of work to raise six kids, and keep everyone clothed.


At a young age Martin served as a squire, and over the years he grew into a fine soldier. He attained knighthood through his valor. It was easy for someone in his station to find a wife, and socially encouraged. There was a short courtship with a woman from another land. They soon married, and had a few offspring of their own.

Eventually Martin was fatally wounded in battle as often happens in the profession of being a Knight. His soul was fused into a construct to carry on his legacy. Once he became the metal man though, his former self perished.


Cuts was the name given to the metal hulk that utilized Martin’s soul. Whether Cuts was a different person became a subject of debate among philosophers and politicians. Cuts actions didn’t seem to be determined by the upbringing that Martin had. For many years Cuts was a very simple machine. When the production of Warforged was booming Cuts was given a number. It was etched into some of his components. Many people used to refer to him with that number.


A combination of factors reduced the production of Warforged. Over the course a couple hundreds years the Warforged became rare. More people referred to him as Cuts, since the numbers weren’t as simple. The number was lost as parts were swapped out or upgraded on Cuts. The etched components were replaced one by one. A particular upgrade to Cuts came when one of his owners came across a great deal on mithril parts. This owner had collected Cuts as a piece of history. Sometimes the man would have Cuts perform tasks to show off a bit. Cuts stayed in that family’s ownership for a few generations.


The most recent head of that household had decided to utilize Cuts considerably more. In that man’s employ was a giant named Nithaulk who also had an interest in historical artifacts. Over the time that Cuts worked with Nithaulk, he became more self aware due to his new friends inquisitive nature. Cuts acted as if he slowly became conscious from a coma with an irreversible case of amnesia. Now his life essence has been revitalized, but only in the sense he was aware of his own existence.


Martin’s soul accepts his identity as Cuts to be his only identity. Unless some other force interferes he will never know the difference either. It might be tragic for someone who knew the whole story of his soul. For him it is just how his life is. He might reflect on what it would be like to not be a construct. Though he doesn’t think of being one as a disadvantage.



Logs: www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/darkest-...



Mechanically:

Cuts, level 9
Warforged, Fighter
Build: Guardian Fighter
Fighter: Combat Agility
Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent
Background: Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 21, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 17, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8.



AC: 25 Fort: 23 Reflex: 18 Will: 17
HP: 84 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 21


TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +10, Endurance +14, Athletics +12


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +4, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +4, History +4, Insight +4, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +4, Stealth +2, Streetwise +3, Thievery +2


FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency: Plate
Level 2: Warforged Tactics
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 8: Mark of Warding


POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Shield Feint
Fighter at-will 1: Weapon Master's Strike
Fighter encounter 1: Shield Riposte
Fighter daily 1: Villain's Menace
Fighter utility 2: Inspiring Fortitude
Fighter encounter 3: Sweeping Blow
Fighter daily 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter utility 6: Mighty Sprint
Fighter encounter 7: Come and Get It
Fighter daily 9: Thicket of Blades


ITEMS
Mithral Plating Plate Armor +1, Shield of the Guardian Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Quick Longsword +1, Breach Bracers (heroic tier), Sash of Ensnarement (heroic tier), Giant Gloves (paragon tier), Bag of Holding (heroic tier), Command Circlet (heroic tier), Battle Standard of Healing (heroic tier), Jade Sea Snake (heroic tier), Javelin (7), Greater Storm Shield Heavy Shield (heroic tier), Disk of Energy Resistance +1
RITUALS
Scroll of Fantastic Recuperation (2), Explosive Runes, Knock


 

Tactically:
He dealt over 400 damage one round a few weeks back before I got Thicket of Blades as a daily. Usually has one round a combat where he spikes Come and Get It with Thicket of Blades while Rain of Steel is active. An ally uses Hellsworn Blessing on him all the time. He regularly does between 200 and 800 damage now. 

There was eratta to only enable Hellsworn Blessing on melee attacks which is debatable if it can't be used by Rain of Steel. Mechanically there is no attack for rain of steel. Roleplaying though, the enemy is being hit by a warforged engulfed in flames. So the dm allows me to attach the Hellsworn Blessing in this campaign. He might not in another.

I am not sure what I will do as he levels. Probably keep most his current powers, maybe try to add Bedeviling Assault. I laid the groundwork for him to get a nice warforged storyline for the paragon and epic tiers. He is purchasing other warforged. He just got one that was designed sort of like a warforged medic, one that would perform repairs in and out of battle. 

Since the character is a thousand years old, I am going to be putting some feats into history as he is able to review things in his past during the hours when the party sleeps and he watches. 


Edit: Maybe this should go in CharOp. I went with development to avoid talking numbers, but ended up talking numbers. Though I am still developing Cuts and playing him. I did not mean to bring CharOp discussion here. 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

Cuts has trouble hitting, and will continue to do so. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I would like to see the 800 damage turn, especially if it supposed to happen frequently.

I also would like to know how you maintain Hellsword Blessing all the time since its a daily...
 
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800minions
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
read hellsworn blessing then. 


I don't average 800, I usually score about 400.  The information is in my powers list in CharOp linked in my signature.  

Cuts is pretty accurate. I don't cover that in my guide. At least I am happy with him. +15 to +20 isn't bad swinging on 23 ac enemies.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

Hellsworn Blessing


The words you whisper in an ally’s ear transform your companion into a more useful servant.


Daily        Arcane, Polymorph
Standard Action      Melee touch


Target: One willing ally


Effect: The target assumes the form of a hellsworn until the end of the encounter or until you dismiss the effect as a minor action. While in this form, the target gains darkvision, gains a +2 power bonus to attack rolls, and deals 2d8 extra fire damage with melee attacks.


  Infernal Pact: The target also gains resist fire equal to 5 + one-half your level.

So... I see something that can be used for 1 encounter per day.

I ask again, if it is a daily how are you keeping it up all the time?  Do you have a party of Warlocks that follow you around and bless you?  If you do, tell one of them, or actually all of them, to be warlords if they are going to be your attack bots.

I never actually read your ToB justification, so I'm going to do it now for funzies and get back to you.

On a related note: You should have Heavy Blade Expertise.  No reason not to have it. 

A few edits:

I skimmed through that thread and saw no actual DPR or KPR breakdown of ToB.  I saw something really disorganized that might have been an attempt, but I can't be sure that is what you meant.

I noticed you edited the post above this to talk about your accuracy.  Would you mind breaking down that +20 to hit for us? 

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It is a daily. I don't do anything special. I don't keep it up all the time. When it is available my ally puts Hellsworn Blessing on me for the duration of the encounter. 

I will probably pick it up soon.

at-will
Ca
class feature
half level
proficiency
magic weapon 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

read hellsworn blessing then. 


I don't average 800, I usually score about 400.  The information is in my powers list in CharOp linked in my signature.  

Cuts is pretty accurate. I don't cover that in my guide. At least I am happy with him. +15 to +20 isn't bad swinging on 23 ac enemies.



Didn't see the numbers, mind doing the DPR that gets you 400 or 800 for us please?  Or quoting yourself if need be?

Also give me a break down of that +20 v AC you got goin on there with your +1 longsword. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here

With my current sword it is maxed at 730. Not using the d12 since I like my shield feint. 

attack modifiers, don't remember the numbers. Guessing at them.
at-will 3
Ca 2
race feature 1
class feature 1
str mod 5
half level 4
proficiency 3
magic weapon 1
Hellsworn 2

huh, I guess it is 15-22 to hit
That is wicked, if I roll a 2 I can hit them. 

Oh 15-24 with villain's manace. 

So if I wanted to waste a feat, I could get 16-25

damage
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...  

Also, Come and Get It targets Will defense

Since my warforged has been hitting people for a millenium it makes sense.

I will probably feat into more damage.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

How are you getting Perma CA, Perma magic weapon, Perma Hellsworn, and Perma "at-will" +3. This is intellectual dishonestly at its finest.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

With my current sword it is maxed at 730. Not using the d12 since I like my shield feint. 

attack modifiers, don't remember the numbers. Guessing at them.
at-will 3
Ca 2
race feature 1
class feature 1
str mod 5
half level 4
proficiency 3
magic weapon 1
Hellsworn 2

huh, I guess it is 15-22 to hit
That is wicked, if I roll a 2 I can hit them. 

Oh 15-24 with villain's manace. 

So if I wanted to waste a feat, I could get 16-25

damage
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...  

Also, Come and Get It targets Will defense

Since my warforged has been hitting people for a millenium it makes sense.

I will probably feat into more damage.

So by "I do regularly" you actually mean "On my nova round assuming perfect setup".

Those aren't the same things .

And have you seen how DPR is done?  You claimed at some point to have a vague understanding of math and that proof containts a lot of randomness.

rain of steel  8*d12+8*2d8
CGI 8*d12+8*2d8 
TOB 8*3*d12+8*2d8
864 possible + statics 



That is what you said, now lets actually break that down to how much you do (still ignoring how often you hit as you apparently want to ignore that part).

You are assuming you hit 8 targets, but the individual damage doesnt go up per target, so lets just go with one at a time and work from there.

Per target what you are saying is this:

Rain of Steel: 1[W] + Enhancement (1) + Weapon Focus (1) [No Hellsworn Blessing as it isn't a melee attack] (No stat mods added either)

Come and Get it : 1[W] + Enhancement (1) + Weapon Focus (1) [No Hellsworn Blessing as it isn't a melee attack] (No stat mods added either)

Thicket of Blades : 3[W] + Stat (5) + Enhancement (1) + Weapon focus (1) [No Hellsworn Blessing as it is a Close Burst and not a Melee attack]

Now we are assuming a d12 weapon so lets plug in some numbers.  For average we assume a d12 is equal to 6.5 (the average roll of a d12).  On that same line 1d8 averages to 4.5 with 2d8 being 9 even.

Rain of Steel: 6.5+1+1 = 8.5 Average damage, assuming no miss
Come and Get it: 6.5+1+1 = 8.5 Average damage, assuming no miss
Thicket of Blades: (3*6.5) +5 +1 +1 = 19.5 + 7 = 26.5 Average damage, assuming no miss.

8.5+8.5+35.5 = 43.5 Average damage per target.

With 8 targets that gives us an average damage of 348 damage.  Not too shabby.

Ok, you are dealing 348 damage to a total of 8 normal enemies who now have you surrounded.  If you aren't killing them, things are about to get very interesting.  I assume they aren't minions, because if they are minions 400+ damage an Action Point and 3 dailies might not have been warranted.

Slyflourish has a fairly good cheatsheet for MM3 updated monsters and they say your average hp standard monster guy at your level is going to be about 94.  Your 43.5 average damage is going to ALMOST bloody the whole lot of them, great work!

This is your perfect set up, your time to shine.  Now it is a near bloodied team monster turn.  Again because we are assuming all hits here, lets see what they are goig to do to you on that turn:

The average damage die for their basic swing (not poppin encounters or dailies) is going to be 2d8+8 damage.  As mentioned earlier that 2d8 becomes 9 damage.  9+8=17.  17*8 = 136 damage.

Your fighter at 84 hp, which means his negative bloodied is 42.  At full health you need to take 126 damage to go from being unscratched to rerolling your character.  Team monster deals, on average, with their melee basic attaack, 136 damage to you on the turn after all the stars align for your combo.  Might want to print a stack of these guys with no names and just rotate them through for their one turn of glorious death....



After all is said and done I wonder two things:

Why are you so concerned about Hellsworn Blessing when it doesn't actually effect your little combo in any actual way?
Why are you setting your ideal condition to be "I do this and die"?  Especially when the "I do this" is "nearly bloody a bunch of normal dudes my level"...

If my math is, in any way, flawed please do point out where I am wrong and why.

Thanks for your time.

PS(edit): You should really just leave your posts alone when you post them and not edit back in responses to things.  It makes it very confusing when people look to see what you are saying if you are constantly editing yourself rather than just posting again to add to the conversation.  If you want to edit things in an earlier post very often, note what you edited so people can keep up with what is going on.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Aside, your character is a pretty standard Warforged Fighters. Props on that.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
How are you getting Perma CA, Perma magic weapon, Perma Hellsworn, and Perma "at-will" +3. This is intellectual dishonestly at its finest.


I am not getting perma. 
I hit betwen 15-24.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

How are you getting Perma CA, Perma magic weapon, Perma Hellsworn, and Perma "at-will" +3. This is intellectual dishonestly at its finest.


I am not getting perma. 
I hit betwen 15-24.


Allow me to rephrase for Zeth:

Please break it down like you did above, but use modifiers we can name.  "At-will" not really being a modifier type for +hit. 

Let me give you an example of what he is trying to ask for (Example is from a lvl 30 Machine Gun Breather):


To Hit: 


Half Level - +15
Level Adjustment (Dragon Breath Racial Feature) - +6
Base Dragonbreath Hit (Strength) - +10
Draconic Spellcaster - +3
Arkhosian Scepter - +6


Total: +40 vs Reflex


All those things are clearly labeled so we can see where they come from.
If you want to assume combat advantage in that you have to show how you get it reliably.

Combat Advantage (Frostcheese) - +2

And then make it look like that.

Make more sense what we are asking?

Edit: For clarity's sake "I tell the rogue to flank" doesn't count as a good enough argument for saying your base attack bonus should include it.  Especially if you are, say, attacking 8 enemies in a circle around you.  I guess you could have a slightly larger circle of 8 rogues materialize around them to give you flanking but... well hopefully you see where we are going with this.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
The character is in the first post and I don't feel like it. This thread is for developing my character. 
If you want to know what at-will it is shield feint. I don't think there is much value in telling you. If you don't want to believe me then don't. I don't feel like arguing with you.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

The character is in the first post and I don't feel like it. This thread is for developing my character. 
If you want to know what at-will it is shield feint. I don't think there is much value in telling you. If you don't want to believe me then don't. I don't feel like arguing with you.



link's slightly inflammatory remark aside we are just trying to get you to show your work for things when you make claims.

Guy walks into a bar and goes "I have been on the moon."  Everyone around him goes "yeah right, prove it".  Dude is either going to pull out some ID proving that he is on This list:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apollo_ast... 

Or everyone around him is going to treat him differently (most likely as a joke, or very negatively).

When you say you are attacking with +15 to +24 we want to know what you are talking about.  Normally people are asking for your base attack bonus that things will be built on.  Then you build up from there.  When you say "I guess its this" people understandably go "what do you mean you guess?  Its your character, if you want feedback tell us what it is not what you guess it is.

The reason we ask for things like this is for stuff like your explanation of damage.  You state that you do crazy damage and that Hellsworn Blessing gives you a bonus to 3 attacks.  When we see your break down it becomes obvious that none of the attacks you describe actually get the extra damage from Hellsworn Blessing.  Without the extra "showing your work" bit we would never have been able to help you grow as a player and learn how the rules actually function.
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
How many times does the same guy have to prove it to the same person?
The character is there, the breakdown is there, what are you asking about?

You actually quoted me Hellsworn blessin and my breakdown. I don't know what part you don't get.  

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

How many times does the same guy have to prove it to the same person?



Once.  You haven't done it yet.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Salla, ask any question you like about cuts and I will try answer it. I do not wish to argue with Matyr.
Smile

Cuts hits between 14-23.
I don't want feedback on accuracy or stats behind me. I am interested in feedback for paragon and epic destiny. 
I don't do much with those as they ruin stories when I dm. Players want to split up and derail story archs for each of their individual character goals simultaneously. I end up having them pick one, and then everyone but them is unhappy. I usually just end the campaign arch about paragon time to avoid the issue. 

posted a video in my blog
community.wizards.com/bajatmerc/blog/201...

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

Salla, ask any question you like about cuts and I will try answer it. I do not wish to argue with Matyr.


Cuts hits between 14-23.




Its not really an argument if someone proves you wrong and then you plug your ears and say you aren't listening.

What you hit on was still very vague.

Also helping you with PP and ED is much easier if you are playing by actual rules.  Or if you aren't going to be playing by the rules, if we know what rules you are going on.

Hellsworn Blessing does not work the way you think it does.  If you are using it like that and your DM doesn't know better, you are cheating.  If you are using it that way because your DM knows it doesn't work, but is letting you do it anyway, what else will he let you get away with?  You can make a truly epic / broken character if your DM is letting you only vaguely follow the rules.  Tell us which rules we can only sort of follow and we can better suggest options. 
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here


The target assumes the form of a hellsworn until the end of the encounter or until you dismiss the effect as a minor action. While in this form, the target gains darkvision, gains a +2 power bonus to attack rolls, and deals 2d8 extra fire damage with melee attacks.

Rain of steel is attacking without targeting, mechanically there is no melee attack specifically defined. 
So how is the damage being dealt? It is an implied melee attack, and the power should have those key words. 


It can be up to 128 damage for that. I will look into a ruling on it in the forums. 

Update: Turns out that the melee attack described in the power does not count. It is illegal. I will stop including that. 
No more 800 damage Frown 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 


The target assumes the form of a hellsworn until the end of the encounter or until you dismiss the effect as a minor action. While in this form, the target gains darkvision, gains a +2 power bonus to attack rolls, and deals 2d8 extra fire damage with melee attacks.

 



Come and Get it is not a melee attack.  Thicket of Blades is not a melee attack.  Rain of Steel is not a melee attack.  The wording was done specifically for things like this so they would not trigger.

Also, for clarity's sake, when you talk about powers that are changed please try to use the right wording so as to not cause confusion.  Hellsworn Blessing has never been errata'd.  An errata happens when they officially change the functionality or wording of one of the abilties after release.

What you are talking about is a home rule.  Either your DM knows it is not supposed to work and is allowing it (which, if true have at it), or he doesn't know how it is supposed to work and you are continuing to try to make it work like that after being told that it doesn't function like that.  That isn't a home rule or an errata, that is called "cheating".


So how is the damage being dealt? It is an implied melee attack, and the power should have those key words.

 

Fortunately the game rules are built specifically to not function via implication.  They are designed to work as explicitly stated.  Frequently they do that poorly and things do not work as intended (and that is when they errata).

Long story short: We discuss how rules are, not how you want them to be.  If your DM knows he is changing the game, great have fun.  Just don't expect us to aknowledge you very much for being extra super special with your DM buffing your character.  If your DM doesn't know how it is supposed to function and you are pulling the wool over his eyes, you are cheating.  Do not cheat.
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I am going to start roleplaying that my warforged is so intimidating that the enemies are hurting themselves. 

I will inquire about Come and Get It.


Come and Get It

You brandish your weapon and call out to your foes, luring them close through their overconfidence, and then deliver a spinning strike against them all.


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Close burst 3


Target: Each enemy you can see in the burst


Attack: Strength vs. Will


Hit: You pull the target up to 2 squares, but only if it can end the pull adjacent to you. If the target is adjacent to you after the pull, it takes 1[W] damage.


Update: 4E is so screwed up. CGI and TOB both don't count as melee attacks. 
So my character just looks SUPER intimidating while enemies around him come in close and just start hurting themselves. That's badass!
Cool

320 + mods maximum damage without actually hitting anyone with a melee attack!
 
I might make a guide for heroic tier just because the title could be so awesome to make close combat characters that don't make melee attacks.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 


320 + mods maximum damage without actually hitting anyone with a melee attack!

 



You did see above what happens if/when you ever get to do that right?  You also realize that CGI and RoS don't actually get your str mod right?  All that happens is you poke the bear, and the bear eats your soul.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
It's pretty funny that you dont get that close attacks that do [W] damage still physically hit the opponent.

Oh well, fluff is mutable (that is why it doesn't effect the power) so you can roleplay the 'forged as doing just that.  
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
I was told that they are not melee attacks. The fluff is wrong.
Of course you have to hit. It makes sense why CGI attacks Will now.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

Fluff cannot be 'wrong', because fluff is not rules text.  It is mutable, and can be ignored in any circumstances.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Yes, they aren't melee attacks. But you still physically hit them, based on the fluff.
Melee: The Keyword is not the same as Melee: The Dictionary Definition in dnd, since it is a game that requires rules that are as clear as possible.
Hopefully that clears things up. 
Heya everyone, here are my homebrew threads: (yes there is only one right now, but there are more to come!) And Let There Be Fish-Men: KUO-TOA
Your video on this topic helped understand this character from your point of view.  I would appreciate it if you would post a link to the video in this thread for others to better understand you. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Everyone should take a look at this:
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_emb...
It helps elucidate his opinion, even if its horribly wrong, and violates the rules

Of note
Warforged Tactics is only melee (-1)
Hellsworn Blessing is only Melee (-2)
Shield Feint is a SINGLE attack roll (-3)
Villain's Menace is only against a single target (-2)
You assume CA but I wont count that

Thats -8 to attack rolls you can't assume 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
@TheBringer - I might need to make another video to depict this, but I am so used to other systems that the absense of melee along with functionality of melee boosters implies that those attacks are not melee in either sense. The goal of the game is fun though. It is not the first time that a game system had such an exploitable flaw that made it fun. RYL 2 had a major flaw in that a glitch allowed players to upgrade their weapons till the bits would roll over and they were useless lol. So if you want to play you are hitting monsters with powers that don't have the melee keyword and I want to play that I scare the crap out of them, then tomato tomato. 

I personally get a kick out how messed up the rules are in this regard. Deliberately not putting the melee keyword on powers they intended as melee just makes no sense to me at all. My DM however said that the attacks are melee and all bonuses applied to melee would be applied, melee is melee even if someone forgot to put in the keyword. I tend to agree with that logic and it is how I will play it in my games as well. A friend in channel suggested we make a feat for melee powers to be melee, it was awesome. 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

You're completely and utterly wrong, of course.  They aren't melee powers because they are close powers.  An attack CANNOT be both.  Look up 'Range' in the PHB; there are four.

Area
Close
Melee
Ranged

And they are exclusive.  They have different rules for how they operate (for example, close attacks are not subject to the penalty for concealment, melee attacks are).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
It's not "messed up" its how the powers were designed. Sometimes things are broken in good ways and bad ways and get officially changed, but a lot of powers have specific key words and do not have other specific key words so that you can't combo up a ridiculous amount of cheese. Its part of the balance of the various character classes. I honestly don't know why you're being so hostile about it as well when people here are just trying to help with the rules and whatnot. As others have said, if you DM is changing a lot of the rules of the game to make your character more powerful than there isn't much that people here on the forums can do to help you as the majority of us play within the defined ruleset of the game.
So you are now willingly cheating, unless everyone else is cheating, and then we can't help you since you and your entire table is now playing an entirely different game than us.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
It's not "messed up" its how the powers were designed. Sometimes things are broken in good ways and bad ways and get officially changed, but a lot of powers have specific key words and do not have other specific key words so that you can't combo up a ridiculous amount of cheese. Its part of the balance of the various character classes. I honestly don't know why you're being so hostile about it as well when people here are just trying to help with the rules and whatnot. As others have said, if you DM is changing a lot of the rules of the game to make your character more powerful than there isn't much that people here on the forums can do to help you as the majority of us play within the defined ruleset of the game.



The melee keyword absense on powers that are meant to be roleplayed as melee is messed up by design in my opinion. I don't plan to contrast 4E against 3.5 or Shadowrun in this thread. I am content with expressing my opinion on that matter. 

You might want to read the thread. I am no longer breaking the rules.
I am going to start roleplaying that my warforged is so intimidating that the enemies are hurting themselves. 
 4E is so screwed up [because] CGI and TOB both don't count as melee attacks. 

So my character just looks SUPER intimidating while enemies around him come in close and just start hurting themselves. That's badass!


320 + mods maximum damage without actually hitting anyone with a melee attack!
 
I might make a guide for heroic tier just because the title could be so awesome to make close combat characters that don't make melee attacks.




So if you want to play you are hitting monsters with powers that don't have the melee keyword and I want to play that I scare the crap out of them, then tomato tomato.  



I asked for help regarding the paragon path and epic destiny for my character that would divert the campaign the least.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 


I asked for help regarding the paragon path and epic destiny for my character that would divert the campaign the least.



The problem with us trying to help you pick a PP and ED is that the DM of your game plays DnD by a ruleset that has major differences between the way it was intended when Wizards wrote their books.  That is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game, we just can't be of much assistance to you as we are playing, in essence, different games.

To put it in perspective:

If you came in here and asked about help in setting up your character for DnD online.  We would point out that this is a 4e forum and direct you elsewhere.  It would be clear that we were playing different games and the discussion would end there.  The confusion arises when you are trying to play a game with the same name, but different rules.  That is the problem here.

You can try to explain to us how your game is different, but that would take a level of rules mastery which you do not yet possess. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I have blocked communication from you Matyr. I apologize if you had offered a paragon path or epic destiny for me.

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 


I asked for help regarding the paragon path and epic destiny for my character that would divert the campaign the least.



The problem with us trying to help you pick a PP and ED is that the DM of your game plays DnD by a ruleset that has major differences between the way it was intended when Wizards wrote their books.  That is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game, we just can't be of much assistance to you as we are playing, in essence, different games.

To put it in perspective:

If you came in here and asked about help in setting up your character for DnD online.  We would point out that this is a 4e forum and direct you elsewhere.  It would be clear that we were playing different games and the discussion would end there.  The confusion arises when you are trying to play a game with the same name, but different rules.  That is the problem here.

You can try to explain to us how your game is different, but that would take a level of rules mastery which you do not yet possess. 




I dont know if you can see that with me quoting him/her, but nothing was inflammatory really.  I think the answer they were giving you is we can't help you very much because you aren't playing by the normal rules. 

You might want to read the thread. I am no longer breaking the rules.
I am going to start roleplaying that my warforged is so intimidating that the enemies are hurting themselves. 
 4E is so screwed up [because] CGI and TOB both don't count as melee attacks. 

So my character just looks SUPER intimidating while enemies around him come in close and just start hurting themselves. That's badass!


320 + mods maximum damage without actually hitting anyone with a melee attack!
 
I might make a guide for heroic tier just because the title could be so awesome to make close combat characters that don't make melee attacks.




So if you want to play you are hitting monsters with powers that don't have the melee keyword and I want to play that I scare the crap out of them, then tomato tomato.  



I asked for help regarding the paragon path and epic destiny for my character that would divert the campaign the least.



Cuts is legal, and being played legally. 

Someone pmed me Warforged Juggernaut and Ceaseless Guardian.

I am going to be checking them out. 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 


Cuts is legal,



Probably. I haven't checked carefully, but probably.


and being played legally. 



Hmm.

My DM however said that the attacks are melee and all bonuses applied to melee would be applied ...



Nope. 
If your DM is counting Close attacks as Melee (which are clearly and unambiguously different types of attacks if either of you would read the rules), then you are *not* running the character by the rules of the game.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.