04/12/2012 TD: "Stuff We All Like"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I was hoping to see Tamiyo revealed in a more flavour-oriented article, but I'm glad that Mike decided to ask for the rest of us what her backstory was.  I'm not a good gauge of the competitive scene so I can't much comment on that, but her control characteristics will assuredly be tried and tested in tournaments everywhere.
 
Will she replace JTMS?  I think no one can or should.  Will she be a good stand-in to fill his shoes?  I think so. 
Hooray for a nod to Kamigawa!
The Temporal Mastery joke was hilarious.
Called it. I predicted after another article the return of a Soratami due to a picture on the Avacyn webpage. She's not a creature card, and their probably won't be one, but she is pretty cool. For me, she is one of the more exciting Plainswalkers since she feels so unique and her is pretty awesome. I hope to pull a few of her in the near future. Now, I just want to hear the whole story of Innistrad in a novel form, connecting all the plainswalkers into the setting. Though, I do feel the amount of plainswalkers in the story does take away a bit from the very interesting setting.

Just had a thought: here is an interesting connection between Sorin and Karn. Karn created Mirrodin and Memnarch to be the perfect plane, which failed miserably. Sorin created Avacyn to create a balance in the plane since humans were almost destroyed. It is interesting to see a sort of connection in which too planeswalkers created a sort of Avatar to protect or govern the plane, though it appears Sorin's is a bit more successful and good aligned.
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No comments about looting/milling effects?
Now that is a cool card. I wasn't around for the Kamigawa block (I started one year too late) so it doesn't have a nostalgia bonus for me, but it is a solid design and makes me curious to go back and learn more about the Soratami.
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Planeswalkers feel *yawn* to me now.  This won't see any real play.
Feels very random to me to have a Soratami show up on Innistrad. I'm kind of surprised since I thought Kamigawa ended up being not that popular. Might have felt a bit less random if she popped up in Act 2 instead of just showing up now.

Ultimate seems like it'd be really good if there were a good way to get there more quickly. I think proliferate probably isn't enough.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by jace, but this planeswalker feels really bad.
Dredge
I like Tamiyo, don't get me wrong, but I don't understand why WotC would print her in AVR. I get that it's a tantalizing hint for 2014's "Return to Kamigawa" (which would be cool), but reason she's on Innistrad is rather unrelated to anything else. What I hate most is when the story technically works but doesn't feel right. It's too contrived.
Tamiyo - Too expensive & while her ultimate is nice, it's not turn 10+ nice...
I think someone missed the "anywhere" line in Tamiyo's ultimate. No comments on how ridiculous cards like Forbidden Alchemy are under that -8?
My fiancee just asked me, "Are you looking at more new stuff, or are you just nerd-gasming at everything?"

I answered her with one word: "Yes!" :P

Seriously, a Soratami planeswalker is awesome. But I, too, am *really* confused as to how she ended up on Avacyn. She's about as far from the gothic/horror trope as possible. And with the Return to Ravnica revealed...well...what's going on here?! o_O
But I, too, am *really* confused as to how she ended up on Avacyn.

Um... because that's what's planeswalkers do?

Didn't we pass April 1st already? ANd I thought Innistrad's design was all about story and flavor coming first. Ummmmmm what happened?

Not that she isn't nifty, but couldn't they wait until the gothic horror set was finished before she came out to play?
To counter my previous point, I just read a valid argument on Twitter: "@GriffnValentine: Tamiyo is everything that should be cool about Planeswalkers. They SHOULD look out of place in the blocks."
But I, too, am *really* confused as to how she ended up on Avacyn.


She's on Innistrad, not on Avacyn.  Unless you're proposing some kind of strange fanfic pairing... :P

She's about as far from the gothic/horror trope as possible. And with the Return to Ravnica revealed...well...what's going on here?! o_O


Avacyn Restored isn't gothic horror.  As The Tick put it so eloquently, 'This is what we call the dénouement. That's French for "when we beat up the supervillain."'
This is like a bad dream, she is creepy as crap. What happened to the rustic avacyn feel. Thumbs down.
The Temporal Mastery joke was hilarious.



Yeah, it was.

I am both happy and unhappy. Happy that we're seeing more balanced planeswalkers. Unhappy that we're getting a Soratami with no actual mechanical link to the Soratami of Kamigawa. The Soratami were always my favourite part of Kamigawa (with the Orochi in tow).
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I hope I get this gal in my booster box! I have never wanted a planeswalker more.
I'm new to all of Magic, having started this Fall with Innistrad partially because of the whole gothic horror element. I've been enjoying all the flavor elements and how the Planeswalkers even relate to the story...

Tamiyo does feel a little out of place to me. I get the concept of the Planeswalker and how they... y'know... walk.. planes.. which is cool, and her backstory about being inquisitive and an explorer of sorts I really like – especially in contrast to so many Planeswalkers that seem to be driven by their need for power. I think that it's great to see someone with different goals, and honestly she's probably the one I would relate the most to in that way (more of a dreamer, less of a fighter over here).

But what I would really love to see is a denizen of Innistrad as a Planeswalker. Maybe it's because this is the block I've joined the game with, maybe it's because it's my favorite art-direction-wise, and thus I'm really attached... So I'd really love to see an Innistrad Planeswalker because I feel like they'd then be my Planeswalker... one I relate to because I get their origins. 

What do the more experienced Magic people think the over/under is on an Innistrad Planeswalker?

I know MaRo had said there'd be two (or three) - one we knew and one we didn't.. does that mean we're going to see a familiar Planeswalker show up, or could it be a character we already know, newly becoming a Planeswalker...? I had hoped on seeing one of our Innistrad characters get the spark – Thalia, Geralf, Gisa, the full-werewolf out there somewhere...

...Or maybe I should just be hoping to see those characters as Legendary Creature cards, because they may actually be more fun that way...?

Anyway, I know I'm new here, but couldn't for the life of me find a "Introduce yourself" thread... so... Hi! I'm Daredeville!
So disappointing the moon is not on the card art... That's what ties the Soratami and Innistrad together. I can't understand how Wizards likes it this way.
Yeah, we need another card to make sure blue is being played in standard, there are so little delver decks right now. Lets print a planeswalker in blue...

Shes a little out place and i dont think the metagame now needs another blue planeswalker.
Maybe its just that i dont like planeswalkers in general... 
But what I would really love to see is a denizen of Innistrad as a Planeswalker. Maybe it's because this is the block I've joined the game with, maybe it's because it's my favorite art-direction-wise, and thus I'm really attached... So I'd really love to see an Innistrad Planeswalker because I feel like they'd then be my Planeswalker... one I relate to because I get their origins.

Sorin is originally from Innistrad. In fact, his grandfather is the first vampire on the plane.
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So disappointing the moon is not on the card art... That's what ties the Soratami and Innistrad together. I can't understand how Wizards likes it this way.



That's a very good point, dunno why it didn't click for me... probably cuz I'm tired.

It looks like the art did have the moon in it, but the way they cropped the image left it out. Getting it in-frame probably would have left Tamiyo looking too small on the picture frame. Art Direction should have caught that if they wanted it in-frame... 

But that piece is quite beautiful. Dechamps is really one of their go-to guys, isn't he..? A lot of the cards whose art I am admiring ends up being pieces by him. Kudos to him for another gorgeous image.

And I think she's already starting to grow on me... and actually, I remembered that she is going to be seen in Part 3 of "The World of Avacyn Restored" pieces... So maybe we'll get a little more story on her there too. Excited to find out more about the red roguish devil fellow next week...! I'm thinking he's a Legendary Creature.
But what I would really love to see is a denizen of Innistrad as a Planeswalker. Maybe it's because this is the block I've joined the game with, maybe it's because it's my favorite art-direction-wise, and thus I'm really attached... So I'd really love to see an Innistrad Planeswalker because I feel like they'd then be my Planeswalker... one I relate to because I get their origins.

Sorin is originally from Innistrad. In fact, his grandfather is the first vampire on the plane.



Okay, that is a fair point. Thanks for pointing that out.. it was staring me in the face the whole time! And we've had Sorin around since Zendikar, correct..?

So we do already have one from Innistrad, you are right there... guess I was thinking more of one of these characters that we have read about in the card flavor and/or articles being one. 

I would certainly settle for seeing them on a card as a Legendary Creature, though. Just want to put some faces to the names... get an extra lord or two there.
Trying to think of ways to get counters on her faster to get that ultimate off, purely because of the following combo:

1. Temporal Mastery
2. Increasing Vengeance /  Reverberate
3. Negate / Mana Leak

You cast TM, copy it, then counter your own original... Copy resolves, and you end up with ALL the cards back in your hand XD
A bit pricey for a gimmick combo @  6UUURR, but once it goes off, you have as many turns as your library will allow in order to kill your opponent in some wonderfully demoralizing way (like 20 extra turns w/ an Invisible Stalker.)

(If someone wins some major tourney using this rediculous battle plan, make sure I get credit for it.)
The Temporal Mastery joke was hilarious.

Yes! That and the fake edit for block constructed both.

When you use Tamiyo's ultimate with exactly enough loyalty, she goes back to your hand, right? Maybe the -2 is something that you rarely use until after you go ultimate? She doesn't do Yawgmoth's Will, she does an improved Enduring Renewal. So you still need to find that one Tome Scour or burn spell which will end the game.

Also, casting a flashback spell with the emblem active probably won't put the spell in your hand. (Referring to Tracker's Instincts in the post script.) There are two replacement effects: flashback trying to exile the card from the stack, and Tamiyo's emblem stating that cards which should go into your graveyard are diverted into your hand. The latter doesn't apply, right?

EDIT: and just for fun, if you sacrifice a Progenitus while controlling this emblem, you'd have your choice of which effect should apply, right?
When you use Tamiyo's ultimate with exactly enough loyalty, she goes back to your hand, right?



From my understanding, you would pay her loyalty cost, and she would go the the graveyard as a state based effect. Then her effect would resolve giving you the emblem. And flashback cards are technically cast from the graveyard then are exiled, so they wouldn't trigger her "goes to the graveyard" emblem effect. At least thats how I think it works.
EDIT: and just for fun, if you sacrifice a Progenitus while controlling this emblem, you'd have your choice of which effect should apply, right?



No Progenitus has a replacement effect whereas this card has a triggered ability. Prog will never hit the graveyard for this to trigger.

 And flashback cards are technically cast from the graveyard then are exiled, so they wouldn't trigger her "goes to the graveyard" emblem effect. At least thats how I think it works.



Yeah, but because of the "then are exiled" part. A retrace card like Flame Jab for example would trigger this when cast from the graveyard, as they go from graveyard --> stack --> graveyard. 
The Temporal Mastery joke was hilarious.

Yes! That and the fake edit for block constructed both.

When you use Tamiyo's ultimate with exactly enough loyalty, she goes back to your hand, right? Maybe the -2 is something that you rarely use until after you go ultimate? She doesn't do Yawgmoth's Will, she does an improved Enduring Renewal. So you still need to find that one Tome Scour or burn spell which will end the game.

Also, casting a flashback spell with the emblem active probably won't put the spell in your hand. (Referring to Tracker's Instincts in the post script.) There are two replacement effects: flashback trying to exile the card from the stack, and Tamiyo's emblem stating that cards which should go into your graveyard are diverted into your hand. The latter doesn't apply, right?

EDIT: and just for fun, if you sacrifice a Progenitus while controlling this emblem, you'd have your choice of which effect should apply, right?



I'm thinking that she would die as a state-based effect from having zero loyalty before the ability resolves that would put the emblem into play, so she needs 9+ loyalty to survive using her ultimate but would then be "immortal" after that.  When you cast a spell via flashback, I believe it gets exiled before the spell resolves, so it would not have a chance to get sent back to your hand.  
I believe we will see Tamiyo being used as a one- or two-of in control decks. Her ability to lock down games with her +1 is very notable, especially when you consider that she'll often come out near to when a Titan lands. In general, I'm expecting a role pretty similar to Karn Liberated, only maybe a little more commonly used.

Turn 4 DoJ/BSZ, turn 5 Tamiyo. Sounds convincing.
I'm a little sad that there's no Soratami "return a land" ability, but to be honest those were not always exciting to activate, even when it was the right thing to do.

The lack of a real tie-in to Innistrad is pretty much the curse of all Planeswalkers.  If anything, she at least has a flavor hook to Innistrad, rather than being completely unrelated like some.
The lack of a real tie-in to Innistrad is pretty much the curse of all Planeswalkers.  If anything, she at least has a flavor hook to Innistrad, rather than being completely unrelated like some.



I don't know, I felt like the three Innistrad planeswalkers all were a great fit before now -- especially Sorin, of course. Makes this one feel even more disjointed.
I was a big fan of Kamigawa(Not because of the power level of the cards, they were pretty bad) but because of the awesome flavor.

Seeing a Sortami planeswalker is pretty big for me, and although some people may find her out of place, Sortami are pretty darn connected to the moon. They were a mystical people no one knew a whole lot about, just that they lived in the clouds and weren't as involved with the Kami war as everyone else.

However, not having a picture of the moon in the art was a terrible, terrible choice. That was the major connection between the Sortami (Freaking moonfolk!) and Innistrad. The art itself is quite beautiful, depicting curiosity as well as smarts, but they should not have left out the moon on the final card.

The card itself in terms of playability isn't broken nor bad, just typical.

Also would have liked the first ability to return a land you control to your hand, and because of the weakness made it two permanents or something.
I mean I always thought that was their way of controlling the "tides" or mana flow in a very unique way, because they are  moonfolk after all.
But I, too, am *really* confused as to how she ended up on Avacyn.


She's on Innistrad, not on Avacyn.  Unless you're proposing some kind of strange fanfic pairing... :P



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Ultimate seems like an ability that goes well with Lotus Petal. Time Warp would work well too, plus it's Modern-legal. Guess there are countless other things to go for, but these two came to my mind first. I don't like the way the ultimates of the most planeswalkers work. Once they resolve it's usual game over, the original Lorwyn-walkers did a better job in my opinion. The art of Tamiyo is cool though.

Four pages and no one is thinking inside the box. Let's take a look at another card that is coming with Avacyn Restored:

Arcane Melee, 5CMC Enchantment, Instant and sorcery spells cost 2 less to cast.

With that and Tamiyo's emblem, you can effectively play cards like Bone to Ash from Dark Ascension for 2, counter a creature spell, draw a card, and get the card right back. In classic, you can play Counterbore for 3 and exile every card and its copies they try to play, over and over. You can play Desertion for 3 and steal artifacts and creatures they try to play.

The emblem is a free buyback on every card you play. Definitely a strong card. The may clause is superb. Imagine someone playing Traumatize on you while you have the emblem out. They're drawing half your library for you... 
I have never wanted a Planeswalker card soooo badly....

I like how the a moonfolk planeswalker shows up on a plane where the moon is the center of importance....

Though i do agree with two previously stated points:

1. The moon should have been in the art.

2. It would have been cooler to see an Innistrad denizen to ascend. (Sorin ascended before the block started so I dont count him)

Other than that, this is 1 of only 2 mythic rares that I want from this set.