(Question) Vexing Demon + Cloudpost / Undying Evil?

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Hey guys, this is a question regarding one of the new card spoiled from the Avacyn's Restored set. Me and my friend are arguing over something regarding the card named Vexing Demon.

Vexing Demon's card is the following:


 Vexing Demon

and the question is the following:

Would it be possible for this creature owner to cast a Cloudpost (same as [C]Momentary Blink[/C] but for only one white mana) or [C]Undying Evil[/C] on the Vexing Demon after the opponent decided to pay four life but before sacrificing it?





The way I read it, Vexing Demon is on the battlefield, then if the opponent is dealt four damage by the creature, you sacrifice that creature.

In my book, you cannot sacrifice a creature that is not on the battlefield, nor a creature can deal you damage if it is not in the play-zone yet.

So you cast Vexing Demon, he is not counter-spelled.

Opponent loses four life, Cloudpost or Undying Evil before sacrificing it, bring it back on the battlefield, opponent has to lose another four life, or you keep it.



Thanks a lot in advance,

LordAzuRa
No. The choice is made on resolution of teh ability, and by then it is too late to react.
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
put spoiler in your title

you can blink it while the trigger is on the stack, but not before you know what your opponent decides, since that happens during the resolution of the trigger.
so it is rather pointless to blink him right at that moment.
proud member of the 2011 community team
put spoiler in your title

you can blink it while the trigger is on the stack, but not before you know what your opponent decides, since that happens during the resolution of the trigger.
so it is rather pointless to blink him right at that moment.



What do you mean by "While the Trigger is on the stack"?
What do you mean by "While the Trigger is on the stack"?

Vexing Devil has a triggered ability that goes to the stack when Vexing Devil enters the field. The trigger does not immediately resolve thus players can respond to that trigger. However, the choice to take the 4 damage or not isn't made until the trigger is in the process of resolving and no one can cast spells at that time unless the resolving spell/ability specifically instructs or allows one to to do so.(eg. Djinn of Wishes, Omen Machine, Brilliant Ultimatum) You won't know what the opponent will choose until it's too late. You could give it undying or flicker it before the trigger resolves, but that won't really accomplish anything useful.

Also note, Cloudpost is not a spell so can't be cast.

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all right, here is what happens

you cast the demon, the demon goes on the stack
no responses, demon resolves, enters the battlefield
etb trigger goes on the stack

now, this is the first opportunity for you to cast Momentary Blink, but you have no idea yet what will happen to your demon.

assuming no responses the trigger resolves and either your opponent takes 4 or your demon stays on the field.
proud member of the 2011 community team
What do you mean by "While the Trigger is on the stack"?

Vexing Devil has a triggered ability that goes to the stack when Vexing Devil enters the field. The trigger does not immediately resolve thus players can respond to that trigger.

Also note, Cloudpost is not a spell so can't be cast.




Sorry, I meant Cloudshift :P
all right, here is what happens

you cast the demon, the demon goes on the stack
no responses, demon resolves, enters the battlefield
etb trigger goes on the stack

now, this is the first opportunity for you to cast Momentary Blink, but you have no idea yet what will happen to your demon.

assuming no responses the trigger resolves and either your opponent takes 4 or your demon stays on the field.




Thanks, i'm not quite sure to understand why there is no second opportunity to cast Momentary Blink after the opponent decided what to do, however, your explanation appears to make sense.

I will take your answer as granted

Thanks again,

LordazuRa


In my book, you cannot sacrifice a creature that is not on the battlefield, nor a creature can deal you damage if it is not in the play-zone yet.




In addition to the answers you've been given, I wanted to point out that this is not correct.

A creature does not need to be on the battlefield for it to deal damage.  Look at Mogg Fanatic saccing him is part of the cost, and he still deals damage.
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So, I take it that it would be impossible to slip Undying Evil onto the stack after your opponent makes the choice, and before you sac the creature?
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So, I take it that it would be impossible to slip Undying Evil onto the stack after your opponent makes the choice, and before you sac the creature?

correct

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


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