[AVR-ICD] Vexing Devil

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That's kinda cool. Either 4 damage for R, or a 4/3 for R with no real drawback.
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That's kinda cool. Either 4 damage for R, or a 4/3 for R with no real drawback.

Kinda cool? Its a Lightning Bolt that does 4 instead of 3, or a 4/3 for 1 mana ...uh...hugely overpowered! If Bolt gets reprinted in M13...watch out.
Interesting card.

I don't think it's good in Standard, where it reads : Deal 4 to target player. (Slightly bigger Lava Spike). I don't think that's good enough for Standard, but I may be wrong.


I think it probably does work in Legacy Burn, where again it's a 4-point Lava Spike.


I like it the most in EDH; 4 damage isn't enough to be a major issue, but it's enough that other players will squabble over it, so the likelihood is you get a 4/3 for in that format. 
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Um... wow. One mana for a comparatively huge body, or one mana for a slightly weaker Lava Axe that enables Morbid. This seems really, really good.
Makes me want to play Mono Red Burn in Modern. Don't think it would work well, but I can still dream.
this guy is pretty nice. 4 damage or a 4 body for one mana. I can deal with that

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looks good...but
it will almost always read :4 damage for opponent, which isn't that great...(unless they have lots of killspells...)
lava spike was a great card, what are you guys even talking about? and this enables morbid
well that means rdw has three strong 1-drops in block, which makes up for the pretty crappy two-drops.
lol i can't help but laugh when everyone is like 1 mana for 4 damage that's not that good lol
This looks like it would be pretty strong in the RB burn deck in modern.
One of the more interesting cards out of this set so far.

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Uh. What, exactly?

It's a 4/3 or 4 damage to the face for ONE MANA.

This is not "okay" or "not bad" or "not that good"

This is instantly better than Stormkirk Noble by light years.

Imagine putting this together with stuff like Undying Evil and Tragic Slip
lol i can't help but laugh when everyone is like 1 mana for 4 damage that's not that good lol



I was looking back at old ICDs and the overall reaction to Wurmcoil Engine was that it was horrible and would never see play. So...

I was looking back at old ICDs and the overall reaction to Wurmcoil Engine was that it was horrible and would never see play. So...


In the environment that wurmcoil was in, where jace and primeaval titan ran rampant, it was horrible, and it indeed did not see play. So...
Seems nice.
It's cool, but meh. It will almost always be 4 to the face, which is meaningless turn one. Later game it will be a creature that has to plow through their defenses. It won't be what you want  it to be, which is almost always the problem.
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Definitely getting 4 copies of this card. Seems like a great fit for RDW. Turn 1 it is 4 damage to the face and fodder for grim lavamancer activations later on. Turn 3 it is possible to play this your opponent makes you sacrifice, follow up with stormblood berserker with bloodthirst. Also possible to enable Brimstone Volley's morbid and possibly do 9 damage in a turn later on in the game. It isn't the greatest topdeck when your opponent is low on life(within burn distance) and it's not good if your opponent has a high life total and you need to cast a blocker. Other than that, you have either 4 damage or a 4/3 for 1 mana both very mana efficient.

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Definitely getting 4 copies of this card. Seems like a great fit for RDW. Turn 1 it is 4 damage to the face and fodder for grim lavamancer activations later on. Turn 3 it is possible to play this your opponent makes you sacrifice, follow up with stormblood berserker with bloodthirst. Also possible to enable Brimstone Volley's morbid and possibly do 9 damage in a turn later on in the game. It isn't the greatest topdeck when your opponent is low on life(within burn distance) and it's not good if your opponent has a high life total and you need to cast a blocker. Other than that, you have either 4 damage or a 4/3 for 1 mana both very mana efficient.

Its funny, talking about old ICD, its almost the same people who said Grafdigger's Cage would "ruin magic" , and "its a money rare" (currently 3.99 retail) and made "gravecrawler useless" also would "cripple snapcaster mage" and make "ANYTHING with flashback useless" are the one who don't think this is a good card and won't see standard play. I bet you the first tournie after this set is released RDW will win and this card will be in it that deck.
80% of the time this guy is 4 face damage. This is usually bad, but still in a high tempo red game that 4 damage still hurts something awful. As mentioned, red now has 2 completely viable 1 drops and it usually only has 1. If nothing else sac it and Brimstone volly them if given the option.

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Uh. What, exactly?

It's a 4/3 or 4 damage to the face for ONE MANA.

This is not "okay" or "not bad" or "not that good"

This is instantly better than Stormkirk Noble by light years.

Imagine putting this together with stuff like Undying Evil and Tragic Slip

It doesn't work with undying evil, as you would have to cast it before the devil's triggered ability resolved, so the player would choose not to take the four damage.

Stromkirk beats this thing's damage after attacking three times and can also set up bloodthirst for a Stormblood Berserker, so I'm not sure it's weaker than this card. 

Will have to play with it to know.
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Definitely getting 4 copies of this card. Seems like a great fit for RDW. Turn 1 it is 4 damage to the face and fodder for grim lavamancer activations later on. Turn 3 it is possible to play this your opponent makes you sacrifice, follow up with stormblood berserker with bloodthirst. Also possible to enable Brimstone Volley's morbid and possibly do 9 damage in a turn later on in the game. It isn't the greatest topdeck when your opponent is low on life(within burn distance) and it's not good if your opponent has a high life total and you need to cast a blocker. Other than that, you have either 4 damage or a 4/3 for 1 mana both very mana efficient.

Its funny, talking about old ICD, its almost the same people who said Grafdigger's Cage would "ruin magic" , and "its a money rare" (currently 3.99 retail) and made "gravecrawler useless" also would "cripple snapcaster mage" and make "ANYTHING with flashback useless" are the one who don't think this is a good card and won't see standard play. I bet you the first tournie after this set is released RDW will win and this card will be in it that deck.



I think this card won't see standard play, and knew grafdiggers was fine as is.

Historically this type of card doesn't work because it is never what you want when you want it. Early game when you want it to be a creature, it's 4 damage to a player (not a creature). Late game, when you want the 4 damage to the face to kill, it will be a creature. Wich will be chumped. Or it just won't matter which it is because you're already winning.

That is the problem with the card. 
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The trick with these cards is to build your deck in a way that doesn't care what your opponent chooses. In rdw 4 damage for 1 is always good. Late game, if you last that long, this will get chumped, which means your other aggresive creatures can get through.
This could be good, but I don't think I would ever want to play this Turn 1. Which is weird.
how often did goblin guide win a game because it lasted long enough to do 4 damage as your turn 1 drop?

Mental misstep is literally the only guaranteed way to not take 4 from this guy, and it'll probably cost you 2 anyway.

This guy is also, in all essence is bump in the night 4-8

It's not bad as a topdeck.

I really feel with noxious revival et al, it could be nasty, this guy more than once is pretty devastating 
This plus postmortem lunge over noxious revival I would say.

yeh, pretty damn good. not as reliable as a 4 point lava spike though, whatever you may think, but it has other benefits.
My Computer is blocking the card image, can someone post the card description please?
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My Computer is blocking the card image, can someone post the card description please?



costs r
any player may have ~ deal 4 damage to them when it enters the battlefield
if a player does, sac ~
4/3
This could be good, but I don't think I would ever want to play this Turn 1. Which is weird.



Exactly what I've been thinking.

I rather like it on turn 3 or 4 depending on the deck.

Turn 3: Cast this.  You'd rather take the 4 damage than give me a 4/3? Ok, play bloodthirsted Stormblood Berserker

Turn 4: Cast this.  You'd rather take the 4 damage than give me a 4/3? Ok, morbid Brimstone Volley.  9 damage to your face.

I don't know how much of an impact this will make in standard, but I certainly enjoy the card.
Remember the Philosophy of Fire? Remember when Shock was the baseline burn spell? Yeah, this eats Shock's corpse and spits on its grave. It's a really strong card that competes with Goblin Guide as the best aggressive red one-drop of all time.
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108516289 wrote:
Think of how Neo couldn't beat the robots, but they kept him around anyways to defeat Agent Smith. Sure, the robots might not like having a Neo running rampant because instead of playing their favorite 4 drop fatty robot, they have to play a bunch of one mana Matrixs to contain him, but at least Neo keeps Agent Smith from reanimating an Iona on turn two.
139359831 wrote:
Are you saying I'm trying to blame my loss on something? I don't care that I lost, I care that he's a sore loser, and a cheater, and a liar.
144902215 wrote:
CKY, are you bad at anything?
144902215 wrote:
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts. I mean, In KevinWorld, Mark is reading the very words I'm typing as well. Heck, in KevinWorld maybe I am Mark.
99964981 wrote:
I'm beginning to think CKY may be anime in real life...
57150868 wrote:
Don't go anywhere CKY, I need to crash dramatically through your window and propose marriage and I don't want you throwing off my paradrop.
63588923 wrote:
[In response to a thread about how hard grading is] Upon reading this, I've found myself completely unable to operate in the world. I tried to decide what to eat for breakfast, and pondered the vast consequences of my choice. How do I balance my dietary needs against my desire to eat good-tasting food? Should I factor in how long it takes to prepare? Cereal is ready in moments, but bacon takes longer to cook. Then there is the impact on other industries. Do people in the cereal industry deserve to be employed more than people in the bacon industry? Which industry should I support? I don't even have the data regarding HOW MUCH the cereal industry benefits from me eating a bowl of cereal, or how much the bacon industry benefits from me eating a side of bacon. How can I compare two qualities I can't even quantify? And let's not forget the milk on the cereal. In addition to determining whether or not milk is healthy for me, how much that benefits the milk industry, and how much the people in the milk industry deserve my support, we have to factor in the fact that cows are put under brutal conditions in order to collect thier milk. Of course, the same goes for the pigs, and then they get killed. Of course, I really like bacon. So I need to come up with a scale that compares the value of cow happiness to pig happiness to my happiness. What trade-offs am I willing to make here? Does the fact that the pig gets put out of its misery count as a plus or a minus? Isn't bacon bad for me anyway? Deciding what to eat for breakfast (or any meal) is impossible. Help me!
104339228 wrote:
I must admit chinkeeyong, you have the most interesting character ideas; and you play them well.
144902215 wrote:
Anyway, you'd be surprised about Time Stop. When I first saw that card as a relatively new player I didn't see its full potential until I read the reminder text. Is it that unintuitive, though? Mine I mean. What is possibility? Is it possible for me to type these words with my tusks? No, because I don't have tusks. Although I am now tempted to go buy some - obviously not from poachers or whatever - and use them as typing apparatus. I could be the best secretary ever. "What's your words per minute sir?" "Well, only six, but I use these tusks to type them." "You're hired!" That was the interview. And is anyone else disappointed that "apparati" is not the plural form of apparatus? I just could strangle a dictionary, because "apparatuses" is a real word. I guess it sounds pretty cool. I'll call them my Apparatusks.
Apparently some people are clueless about this card.
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Apparently some people are clueless about this card.
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Magic players evaluate card poorly.  More at 11.
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how can anyone think this isnt beyond bonkers? yes, i would love to fireblast your face turn one. this is better than guide. this will define burn in legacy... marauders see play there, this wont? this could be better than figure of destiny.

yes, i will take the 4 damage now and follow up with x2 lightning bolts next turn, flame rift, chain lightning, fireblast after that, no problem.

how can you do more damage on the first turn with one card? or for that matter, if you are looking to bolt your opponent out, why not drop flame rift for this?


i dont know how we can look at this and see anything wrong... except for the strain it will put on mtg's balance of power...."jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden" />
not flame rift... rift bolt.

drop rift bolt, sorry..."jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden" />
I'm not sure how strong this will be in limited as most of the time it will be kind of akin to Bump in the Night (assuming your opponent just takes the damage).  In constructed however this could be the one drop that RDW was looking for in standard while burn decks in Legacy and Modern (as well as Zoo probably) will probably run this.
yes, i would love to fireblast your face turn one.



Iterating damage is better than card disadvantage.  That's kinda important.



Sure, this will see play in Legacy burn.  The question is, "Who cares?"  A tier three budget deck got some redundancy.  Cool story, bro.

 
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This thing is sweet.  RDW is getting really good again.
how can anyone think this isnt beyond bonkers? yes, i would love to fireblast your face turn one. this is better than guide. this will define burn in legacy... marauders see play there, this wont? this could be better than figure of destiny.

yes, i will take the 4 damage now and follow up with x2 lightning bolts next turn, flame rift, chain lightning, fireblast after that, no problem.

how can you do more damage on the first turn with one card? or for that matter, if you are looking to bolt your opponent out, why not drop flame rift for this?


i dont know how we can look at this and see anything wrong... except for the strain it will put on mtg's balance of power...."jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden" />



Except you won't bolt your opponent out with this: they will choose not to take the damage. So then one of three things happens: they chump block you/maybe trade, they kill it before it attacks, or you win next turn. Which if they didn't have the life to pay for this or the kill spell to deal with you were likely going to do with whateve creatures you had on board or spells you had in hand. 

The burn hand you describe: Requires- 8 cards, 1 double, and several turns. Meanwhile your opponent is doing something. Possibly countering with damage in creatures, or countering your spells, or discarding your hand. Congrats you can win a goldfish game with a bunch burn cards. You have to account for your opponent doing something.

@Goblin guide: Goblin guide often go in for more than four damage as a turn one play. Same with Storm kirk noble. And your oppoents didn't get to decide their usefulness. They were always what you expected them to be. Your oppoents had to use a card to answer them, a resource.

Again there will almost never be a time where this will do what you want, because it will always be whichever option you opponent wants.

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RDW playable, IMO. Even an early game 4-damage-burn and a late game 4/3 for is still pretty playable in current T2 standards.

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