Needed: good candidates to update some class handbooks

69 posts / 0 new
Last post
Following up on some recent posts I made on another thread, some of the handbooks--largely those that LDB was maintaining--have not been updated in quite some time. The guides that have not been updated since around last July include those for the Knight, Slayer, Ranger, Rogue, Warlord, Barbarian, Fighter and Scout. Zelink has already stepped up and is taking over the Warlord guide, but that still leaves several guides falling behind. As has been pointed out the rogue and barbarian ones are in the most need at this time, but they all will be sooner or later.

The updates needed will include feats, races, themes, PP's & ED's, errata, and equipment from several books and sources (i.e. Neverwinter Campaign, Feywild, Vile Darkness, Elemental Chaos, Mordenkainen, Shadowfell and Dragon issues). The good news is nobody will need to start from scratch if they don't want to as most consider LDB's guides extremely solid, but it's entirely up to you.

The key qualities needed are of course expertise, the respect of the community, and the time/willingness to maintain the guide. I was hoping we could find some folks willing to do this. I'll be the first one to say I lack the expertise or clout to handle it at this time, but this community has a ton of experts so I know you're out there. Who around here might be good candidates to work on handbooks for these classes? Is there something else we can do that I haven't considered?


I'm on the Barbarian, and you can probably expect the guide within a week. RenZhe  has also expressed interest on the Rogue, and I believe he is qualified for it. This leaves us with the Fighter, Knight, Slayer, Ranger and Scout. It might be possible for me to tackle the Ranger and Scout, but I can make no promises about it. The Fighter, Slayer and Knight are an entirely different kettle of fish, and I wouldn't wish that handbook upon everybody - not many updates are needed but it's a gigantic monster of a 'book. Anybody willing to step up on the Fighter side?
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I thought the Slayer was fairly adeptly handled by LDB, that guide needs a new coat of paint and thats it. it would be simple enough for anyone  interested and willing to take advice.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
For that matter, have there been any major changes/additions to the Ranger since LDB went inactive, errata or otherwise? (Other than the new races, I suppose.)

I'd be open to taking the Ranger (I do love the class), but I can't make any promises on it right now.
I'm certainly interested in maintaining the rogue handbook, although the question I have been struggling with in the past few days is what new value and insights I can actually add to the knowledge base, and what actually requires an update. I have a hard time actually coming up with new stuff aside from a handful of Arena/Style feats (and frankly, there's way too many, so I'd really just want to cover only the good arena feats).
The only things to account for are Non-DS themes, and feats in HoFW and EC, plus any new relevant Dragon material and Errata (of which there hasn't been much).

In the Ranger's case it's pretty much just feats and themes, and whether you want to tackle the Scout as well.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
Curses, I would have been able to have a decent stab (so to speak) at the rogue or barbarian handbooks, but people have already laid claim to them.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Is it exclusive? I imagine collaboration is possible. You might contact whoever "claimed" them and coordinate with them. I'm betting they'd appreciate splitting up the work.
Thanks Arm for stepping up, that's terrific! I'm sure the whole community will benefit from that. As for the ranger and rogue, I don't know that there have been any major changes, the biggest deal right now is just finding someone who is willing to maintain them. There were new PPs and EDs in the book of Vile Darkness, for example; new feats, races, classes, PPs and EDs in the Feywild book; updates to classes in the Elemental Heroes book, and new themes in virtually all of the above. Lots of equipment/items in Mordenkainen as well, which I think can be very relevant for planning a character. Then of course there is stuff coming out in the issues of Dragon and errata updates, which will continue. Later this year Menzoberranzan comes out, which will likely have significant updates for the drow--that should affect several classes I'm thinking.

Largely at this point the stuff is just housekeeping, which is why it's a great time to hop on. Things need updating but there won't be an overwhelming amount of things to do (I would hope), and most of the work is already done by LDB if folks want to use it. Zelink and Arm would be a great resource if anyone wants to gauge what kind of work would be involved as they are in process right now.

Gonna be straight, I'm not even sure I plan on including BoVD stuff, and if I do (I probably will), every feat/pp will come with a disclaimer. I don't know a campaign or DM that would accept the stuff. All of mine have nixed it. And while theres some decent content, no one wants to touch it with a ten foot pole.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Gonna be straight, I'm not even sure I plan on including BoVD stuff, and if I do (I probably will), every feat/pp will come with a disclaimer. I don't know a campaign or DM that would accept the stuff. All of mine have nixed it. And while theres some decent content, no one wants to touch it with a ten foot pole.



Any that doesn't care about pre-baked fluff I'd say. Which makes sense to me!
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Re: BoVD

I'm honestly pretty biased towards liking Blackhearted Knave, but that's surely a career-ending move given the common opinions held by the rest of the charop.


Anyway, I'd like to start a write-up for the Rogue Handbook, but have stupid amounts of trouble coming up with a nice thematic title and flavor. Any suggestions?
I also like blackhearted knave.  Idol of Darkness is a decent paragon path for str/cha clerics and lolths cruel sacrifice has some potential in the right party too.

I think handbook autors should include all relevant published material like BOVD, but including a disclaimer is fine.
I think handbook autors should include all relevant published material like BOVD, but including a disclaimer is fine.




That's my feeling as well.

As for handbook names for Rogues, maybe one of the followin?

-Phantoms and Pickpockets: The Rogue's Handbook.
-Deadly Shadows: A Guide to Rogues.
-The Art of Theft: The Rogue's Handbook.

All kind of lame names, I know, but it's the best I could think of. Maybe something related to swashbuckling instead?
Rogue handbook title?  That's not even a challenge!

Doing It From Behind: A Rogue's Handbook (or Rogue's Do it From Behind: A Handbook)
Rad Ripostes: Rogue Reference.

Sponsored by the letter R. 
Rogue handbook title?  That's not even a challenge!

Doing It From Behind: A Rogue's Handbook (or Rogue's Do it From Behind: A Handbook)



I thought that name was being saved for the possibility of a new Blackguard Handbook?
Rogue handbook title?  That's not even a challenge!

Doing It From Behind: A Rogue's Handbook (or Rogue's Do it From Behind: A Handbook)



I thought that name was being saved for the possibility of a new Blackguard Handbook?

Once you go black, you never go back?

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

"Like a Thief in the Night"
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
"A Guide to Sneaking, Attacking, and the Intersection Thereof"
"How to be Underhanded, Devious and Awesome: A Rogue's Handbook"
Han Shot First: A Scoundrel's Guide
Han Shot First: A Scoundrel's Guide



Brilliant.
Well, that leaves us with the Warlord, Barbarian and Rogue handbooks likely under new ownership! We have a few left, however. Are there any ideas for folks who would be good to possibly handle the Scout, Slayer, Ranger, Fighter or Knight books?

J
If I had the faintest idea how to rate items and actualy charop stuff, I would be game. With LBDs help (copypastecoppypase), I might be able to pull it off. Only as a last resort, though. The handbooks probably deserve better.
holydoom.weebly.com: Holydoom! A lighthearted RPG in progress. Loosely based on 3.5. 4, and GURPS. Very, Very, Very loosely. Seriously, visit it now. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29086701/I_HIT_IT_WITH_MA_SWORD!_(like_this!):_A_Slayers_Handbook An attempt at CharOp
To anyone who thinks Pathfinder is outselling D&D
While one report may say that FLGS report a greater amount of book sales, one cannot forget the fact that the 71000 DDI subscribers paying 6-10 dollars a month don't count as "Book Sales."
"see sig" redirects here
Oblivious troll is Oblivious
PbP supporter!
General thoughts, feelings, and info on DDN!
Stuff I Heard Mike Say (subject to change): Multiclassing will be different than in 3.5! That's important. There is no level cap; classes advance ala 3.5 epic levels after a set level. Mundane (AKA fighter and co) encounter and daily powers will probably not be in the PHB (for the lack of space), but nor will they be in some obscure book released halfway through the edition.
You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
Han Shot First: A Scoundrel's Guide



Han Solo shot only...
Well, that leaves us with the Warlord, Barbarian and Rogue handbooks likely under new ownership! We have a few left, however. Are there an ides for folks on who would be good to possibly handle the Scout, Slayer, Ranger, Fighter or Knight books?


I thought Litigation said he would take over the Ranger handbook.  If not, I could use LDB's guide and update it.  Since all it really needs is an update (similiar to what's going on with the Warlord one now), it shouldn't be too much work.

Daren

Sorry to go OT a bit, but why did LDB go inactive?  Is he/she alright, and just lost interest in 4e, or did something happen?  Do we know?
I believe he has taken an interest in Warhammer instead.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Ah, thanks.  Glad to hear he's fine.
Well, that leaves us with the Warlord, Barbarian and Rogue handbooks likely under new ownership! We have a few left, however. Are there an ides for folks on who would be good to possibly handle the Scout, Slayer, Ranger, Fighter or Knight books?


I thought Litigation said he would take over the Ranger handbook.  If not, I could use LDB's guide and update it.  Since all it really needs is an update (similiar to what's going on with the Warlord one now), it shouldn't be too much work.

Daren


Well, he said he might have an interest if he had the time, but no promises. I didn't take that as any kind of commitment; to me it sounded like he was pretty busy. I don't think he'd have a problem if you decided to do it, Drezden.

J
I believe he has taken an interest in Warhammer instead.


This is correct.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
What's with the books of Executioners, Ossassins and the hybrid's? They're planned so far? All are outdated.
What's with the books of Executioners, Ossassins and the hybrid's? They're planned so far? All are outdated.



Executioners could deserve some love, but 'don't play this, play an Avenger' is pretty much the only thing that should be said about Ossassins. As for hybrids, the only hybrid handbook I know of is the Hybrid Warlord handbook I'm working on - Miscibility Table isn't so much a handbook as it is a summary of hybrid strengths and weaknesses.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I might have a go at a general hybrid advice thread (handbook isn't quite the word) over the summer - but that is quite a large undertaking.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
You're right, the hybrid thing isn't a handbook really. But i was  a good tool for me at the beginning. Actually i switched to the Ossassin (from Ninjabuild), maybe i will do it again and switch to an hybrid (Exe|W'lock-MC:Rogue).
Hope we get some new book of those!
You're right, the hybrid thing isn't a handbook really. But i was  a good tool for me at the beginning. Actually i switched to the Ossassin (from Ninjabuild), maybe i will do it again and switch to an hybrid (Exe|W'lock-MC:Rogue).
Hope we get some new book of those!



On what? Executioners? Just refloat Litigation's. If you think there's anything to update, he'll take care of it.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I might have a go at a general hybrid advice thread (handbook isn't quite the word) over the summer - but that is quite a large undertaking.



There are a couple of specific classes (Warlock, Warlord, BCL Cleric) with a large volume of hybriding potential and class/build decisions that could potentially deviate significantly from their native classes that it pays for them to actually have their own handbook. I know Armisael's got the Hybrid Warlord one incoming. I'm tempted call in for a Hybrid Warlock handbook, but we'll see how people receive the Rogue one first.
I might have a go at a general hybrid advice thread (handbook isn't quite the word) over the summer - but that is quite a large undertaking.



There are a couple of specific classes (Warlock, Warlord, BCL Cleric) with a large volume of hybriding potential and class/build decisions that could potentially deviate significantly from their native classes that it pays for them to actually have their own handbook. I know Armisael's got the Hybrid Warlord one incoming. I'm tempted call in for a Hybrid Warlock handbook, but we'll see how people receive the Rogue one first.



Is there any way to include them in the existing guides?  Im sure Duelist could whip up a hybrid warlock section and title it Hybrid Warlocks, or How to Poach Eldritch Strike and Not be a Half Elf.

I might have a go at a general hybrid advice thread (handbook isn't quite the word) over the summer - but that is quite a large undertaking.



There are a couple of specific classes (Warlock, Warlord, BCL Cleric) with a large volume of hybriding potential and class/build decisions that could potentially deviate significantly from their native classes that it pays for them to actually have their own handbook. I know Armisael's got the Hybrid Warlord one incoming. I'm tempted call in for a Hybrid Warlock handbook, but we'll see how people receive the Rogue one first.



Add Warden in there to complete the Big Four. Warden is a wet dream for Strikers because it opens up an easy way to add damage, a really good level 1 in Wildblood Frenzy, a super potent nova booster in Wilding Strength, and Son of Mercy, among many other things. Those four classes are just amazing to tack on a 'main' class as a booster.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Sign In to post comments