Wolfir? [Avacyn Restored Spoilers]

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Apparently Werewolves are on the good side now:



Discuss.
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We knew this from the trailer already.

Personally, I think its great.

~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I'm curious to find out if there's anymore to the cursemute decree and the full implications for the werewolves wolfir (great name, by the way). Are the sentient in the sense that they have their human personalities in wolf form? Or are they just werewolves that don't want to kill humans anymore? Can they transform (lack of DFCs says no, but we'll see)?
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Was no one here watching the transcript of the PAX show?

Wolfirs are werewolves that have had their wolf and human spirits fused together by Avacynian Magic.
They have achieved inner peace.

Alright, some of us clearly know more than others, so any chance we could get the relevant information typed up here? All I know is that card, and the one image from the trailer (which, after all, hinted but did not confirm) so yeah, anything anyone knows is welcome.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
Yeah what Hairless said is about all we know. The foil rare for the G/U Intro Pack is a wolfir, and the deck's called "Bound by Strength" so at least one of them will probably have Soulbond.

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I hope wolfirs are mind-raped werewolves. I want them to make the angels mean.
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They're almost certainly "Creature-Werewolf"

And from what it sounds like to me, they're werewolves who are able to maintain sentience even in beast mode, and since a pretty good chunk of humans on Innistrad follow some form of the church of Avacyn, most of the wolfirs are likely to be good guys.
The Back-to-Back Badasses pose the human and wolfir are sporting in the art of Joint Assault makes the wolfir look like it knows what it's doing. I don't think they're being controlled by the "Cursemute Decree." I think the decree is just letting them maintain their sapience in wolf form, or at least giving them the capacity to overcome any compulsions toward violence against humans.
That still wouldn't explain how Avacyn handled the wantons, but I'm sure we'll get to that later. Or we won't and they're still a serious threat to humans.
Don't forget there are no DFCs in this set. But apparently there are werewolves. Whatever Avacyn did to them, it might have involved more changes to the werewolves wolfir than this piece of flavor text mentions. These people might not get to live as humans anymore. "Bound by Power" and all that.

I think the casual werewolf tribal / human tribal deck running around under Mayor of Avabruck might start making flavorful sense once we get some wolfir cards.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
Am I the only one that keeps hoping that they will soon start showing some wolfir cards so we can see them?
Am I the only one that keeps hoping that they will soon start showing some wolfir cards so we can see them?



Patience, young grasshopper.
Kind of makes me wonder; we all anticipated that (some of) the werewolf pack leaders would be printed in AVR, but this kind of changes the circumstances. Given how they were portrayed, I'm having difficulties imagining them as joining the boring angel side.
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Dollars to donuts wolfir will be mostly if not all soulbond creatures.
Hm, not a bad speculation... It would seem to make flavorful sense, at the very least.

Also, I love how this is basically modified Banding. Such a fan of that.
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Dollars to donuts wolfir will be mostly if not all soulbond creatures.



Wolves were the main case of green banding.

Since werewolves are human, I'm not surprised. The vampires and alchemists were the bad guys, really.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Kind of makes me wonder; we all anticipated that (some of) the werewolf pack leaders would be printed in AVR, but this kind of changes the circumstances. Given how they were portrayed, I'm having difficulties imagining them as joining the boring angel side.


we still might get some of the pack leaders if you look at some of the stuff from the Planeswalker's Guide to Innistrad: Kessig and Werewolves.
there are some parts that show that it most likely the wolf side of the curse that causes the werewolves to kill. So if  Avacyn's Cursemute Decree takes away the wild wolf-sprirt side then most likely the pack leaders will have there human side and reasoning restored. The only one i don't see siding with the humans is the leader of the Krallenhorde howlpack since he stays in the wild and runs with the howlpack even when he reverts to human form.
It's gonna be fascinating to see what, if anything, this means for the big 3 howlpacks, since they're largely made of wantons.
I'm slightly worried now. It seems like the info Hairless Thoctar found might imply that the Creature type might now be changed from werewolf to Wolfir. As they are made in to a new race maybe. Does any one else think this might be or would they just use Wolfir for name instead.
I'm slightly worried now. It seems like the info Hairless Thoctar found might imply that the Creature type might now be changed from werewolf to Wolfir. As they are made in to a new race maybe. Does any one else think this might be or would they just use Wolfir for name instead.



R&D is extremely hesitant to invent new creature types when a previously existing creature type would suffice.
These creatures are still werewolves, they're just less likely to eat orphans now.

I will be extremely surprised if these aren't "Creature - Werewolf"

Either way, I hope they'll go more in depth about the Cursemute's Decree thing.
Like, I could theoretically see some wantons BSing Avacyn about wanting to do good, just so they could get modelocked as intelligent killing machines.
That would be interesting to me.
Sounds like wolfir really won't get to shapeshift. Oh well.

But the fact that being changed further was the option Avacyn gave repentants instead of being changed back means Avacyn either 1) cannot undo the lycanthropic curse, or 2) wants as many martial resources as she can get, at the cost of the safety of some individuals in her flock who aren't quite volunteering for duty. The first option would mean Innistradi lycanthropy is seriously powerful magic, which wouldn't be too unthinkable since the implication is that werewolves have been around longer than Avacyn or even Sorin, or that it might even be a function of the moon. The second option would mean Avacyn is either very enthusiastic to make up for lost time or sports a little of that militant Good is Not Nice side of White some people feared/hoped she would wield to be yet another threat for the humans.

Neither option explains why this was never an option before Avacyn was imprisoned.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
Maybe it was an option, just one she didnt want to consider.

Keep in mind, Avacyn had a very powerful tool before, the Helvault, that she doesn't have anymore.
She is incapable of ever "winning" now.

She probably has to look towards her duty more pragmatically now because she doesn't have the option of sealing away enemies to strong to be killed.
Also note that the Flight of Herons is claimed to have been utilising magic frm the forests. They might have inspired Avacyn to meddle with non- magic.
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If the existence of werewolves, vampires, geists, and zombies was what was keeping the demons in check, maybe keeping the werewolves around would prevent them from running rampant like last time? Another way to cope with the lost Helvault.
OK they have now showen the 3 new mythic angels so maybe some Wolfir cards tomorrow. Also I think they might be a lot of soulbond in the Wolfir.
My guess is the Garden Hose theory: Avacyn's magic being blocked for so long led to a buildup--when she was released, all the pent-up magic from the months of her disappearance was released as well, creating a massive power surge. The excess power explains both why she's suddenly powerful enough to immediately swing the tide in humanity's favor and why she's creating Wolfir now when she didn't before.

Also, I love how this is basically modified Banding. Such a fan of that.

No it's not. [/Rules Goob Twitch]

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

How about the possibility that Sorin installed some extra gadgets and updated her software?
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Also, I love how this is basically modified Banding. Such a fan of that.

No it's not. [/Rules Goob Twitch]


Actually... yes, yes it is. I know what you're getting at, but I really wasn't talking about how they function from a rules perspective. Conceptually, this is CLEARLY a descendent of Banding. The members of WotC that were at PAX actually are pretty open about that fact. So yeah, it isn't really mechanically related at all. But it still is basically modified Banding, because it is a variant of the same exact flavor.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
It's interesting to see how the exact same flavor (these creatures are separate, but they can team up in combat) can be expressed with such deeply, fundamentally different mechanics. To Melvin banding and soulbond are so different as to not even be placed in the same category. To Vorthos one is the new version of the other.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
So how did banding actually work, then? In our playgroup we errata'd it to duct tapeing up to one nonbander together and giving them all each other's abilities.
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So how did banding actually work, then? In our playgroup we errata'd it to duct tapeing up to one nonbander together and giving them all each other's abilities.



In short, banding allows you (instead of your opponent) to assign your opponent's creatures' combat damage among the creatures on the band.


Banding does not allow to share abilities; in truth, banding may render your creature's evasion abilities moot: if you band a creature with landwalk and one without and attacks with them, I can block the whole band, ignoring the landwalk!


Slightly shortened rules (removing the weirder "bands with other" variant):


702.20c. As a player declares attackers, he or she may declare that one or more attacking creatures with banding and up to one attacking creature without banding are all in a "band." A player may declare as many attacking bands as he or she wants, but each creature may be a member of only one of them.
702.20d. All creatures in an attacking band must attack the same player or planeswalker.
702.20g. Banding doesn't cause attacking creatures to share abilities, nor does it remove any abilities. The attacking creatures in a band are separate permanents.
702.20h. If an attacking creature becomes blocked by a creature, each other creature in the same band as the attacking creature becomes blocked by that same blocking creature.
702.20k. During the combat damage step, if a blocking creature is blocking a creature with banding, the active player (rather than the defending player) chooses how the blocking creature's damage is assigned. That player can divide that creature's combat damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures it's blocking.


702.20j. During the combat damage step, if an attacking creature is being blocked by a creature with banding, the defending player (rather than the active player) chooses how the attacking creature's damage is assigned. That player can divide that creature's combat damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures blocking it.




Soulbonding just allows you to share an ability. It does not distributes damage, it does not force them to attack or block together, and does not make them easier to block. So, totally unlike banding.

[<o>]
Soulbound is almot exactly the same as Banding in flavor, but very different (and simpler, thank god) in mechanics.  I don't think there's much more to be said about it.
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Wolfir are wolf type, not werewolf. Did I mention how much I love this set?
Evil doesn't always triumph. - Ajani Goldmane
Well. The wolfir have undergone a serious fundamental change and no longer transform or lose their wits.
I can accept the creature type change.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
Well. The wolfir have undergone a serious fundamental change and no longer transform or lose their wits.
I can accept the creature type change.




I am flabbergasted over the response with this card on MTGS, people going: "THESE SHOULD BE WEREWOLF TYPE! WHY YOU ENFORCE FLAVOR IN THIS GAME?! IT IS NOT IMPORTANT, THIS IS A CARD GAME NOT AN RPG!".

I mean seriously. I just take comfort to the fact that those people are not whole representatives of the Gameplay area of Magic. :P
Well. The wolfir have undergone a serious fundamental change and no longer transform or lose their wits.
I can accept the creature type change.




I am flabbergasted over the response with this card on MTGS, people going: "THESE SHOULD BE WEREWOLF TYPE! WHY YOU ENFORCE FLAVOR IN THIS GAME?! IT IS NOT IMPORTANT, THIS IS A CARD GAME NOT AN RPG!".

I mean seriously. I just take comfort to the fact that those people are not whole representatives of the Gameplay area of Magic. :P



Yeah I was over in the FSS talking about Tamiyo and someone was complaining about how she didn't make sense on Innistrad. I pointed them to the story blurb. Their response? "You shouldn't have to read a story blurb to know why she's here." I was amazed when I was not the only one lambasting him for that. 
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The first thing I thought when I saw 'wolf warrior' was 'Cool, it's like how kitsune are 'fox x' and leonin are 'cat x'.

The second thing was 'Yay, I can throw them at stuff with Master of the Wild Hunt!' Soon, my Wild Hunt EDH deck will be complete. I can use angels for valkyries, right?
Evil doesn't always triumph. - Ajani Goldmane
Oh god... they turned Werewolves into Furries. D: lol Sorry someone had to say it.

I can use angels for valkyries, right?


Yes.


 

Oh god... they turned Werewolves into Furries.


Wait, they weren't before?

[<o>]

I can use angels for valkyries, right?


Yes.


 

Oh god... they turned Werewolves into Furries.


Wait, they weren't before?





Definition wise... Yes they were. But now they look kinda flamboyant.
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