Am I the only one

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Disappointed in the fall of griselbrand?

It wasn't bad, and we knew it was gonna happen. It just seems like such a foot note. That powerful demon we've been hyping all year? Dead after groveling in a few minutes. I wanted something more epic.

I understand time constraints and so much story has to be resolved, but I wanted more from this. Maybe it will be developed more soon.

Also sad that the garruk Lili story is no closer to finishing it seems. 
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People throw around the word "anticlimactic" alot these days...

No but seriously, kind of a disappointment.

I realize that there are some serious limitations in regards to storytelling, given the mediums that creative is allowed to use these days, and I'd rather not see Liliana's story dragged out more than necessary.
But that was kind of a let down in the grand scheme of things.

Of course, Kothophed died in a simialrly quick fashion.
Liliana under the influence of the Veil must be hella strong.
I was more bummed about Kothophed. We know exactly nothing about him as a character.

Anyway, Grimblethwap got a bit of a footnote death, but that's what we're going to have to get used to now, I'm afraid. There isn't space to do longer material.

That said, there's nothing preventing us from fleshing those stories out more. I know one of the fundamental rules of the Expanded Multiverse project is that we don't mess around with Canon, but this isn't "Jace meets/falls in love with my superspecialawesome self insert Mary Sue!" this is "we know the exact order and nature of events, all we need to do is flesh them out with narrative."

Thoughts?
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While reading the article, I had the feeling it was someone telling about this book they've read. Then I realized it probably was...


@Keeper: I'm sure we've got the talent around here.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

The fact that his death was such a brief, by-the-way conveyance next to the large mysterious buildup for his appearance leads me to beleive when Creative was building this plot, they expected that when they actually told us about Liliana fighting Garbledina it would be in some other, grander medium. Like a webcomic. Or a novel.

I gathered from the extensive Word of God we got on the novel cancellation that we're not the only ones who were a little bit surprised to hear the novels would be killed. Or at least a little reluctant to hear it.

The story arc in Return to Ravnica block will likely be have been built from start to finish with Creative knowing exactly what media they can convey it in. I'm still hopeful that they can tell a great story, books or no.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
Dav and I got it.
We could use some other viewpoints though, if anyone wants to tackle a few chapters from Sorin and Thalia's perspective.
Dav is covering Garruk's trek, I'm handling Lili's.
Poor Sorin, how much of an useless character can they make you.
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@Yanmato:

I can buy that theory.

And yeah, Return to Ravnica might be our first true post-Novel block. This should be interesting to watch. I wonder if on some level Innistrad and Scars were intended as test runs for post-Novel Magic... even if not consciously. I suspect Creative knew this was coming on some level, just like the rest of us did.

@Barinellos:

You guys are awesome.

I take it you're out of your creative doldrums then. Awesome. With Engine starting to poke his head back in, you two writing again, and me working on some new stories, we might actually have some real content soon.
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Dav and I got it.
We could use some other viewpoints though, if anyone wants to tackle a few chapters from Sorin and Thalia's perspective.
Dav is covering Garruk's trek, I'm handling Lili's.


Yeah! But if nobody else wants to write for Sorin, I might... problem is, beyond saying "Hey look Sorin's here too!" we have absolutely NO IDEA what he's up to. We don't know the whos, the wheres, the whats, or the whys (except that he's looking for Avacyn). It's a little frustrating.

Not quite as frustrating as getting exactly 0 closure on Garruk's story, though. Are they really ending the Innistrad block story with "and Garruk continues being cursed, chasing Liliana, and nothing has changed about him"??????

*grumblegrumble* 
"There are probably seven persons, in all, who really like my work; and they are enough. I should write even if I were the only patient reader, for my aim is merely self-expression." ~H.P. Lovecraft

My Colors Are Green and Blue I value respect, honesty, acceptance, and trust. I love to tell stories and to experience new things. At my best, I am compassionate and creative. At my worst, I am detached and submissive. My enemies are Black and White.

I was expecting a better explanation of what Liliana actually did to open the Helvault. It pretty much boiled down to her making sure she could complete a spell without being interrupted by Thalia and her band of loyal cathars (which begs the question: Why didn't Liliana just wait until they were asleep and cast the spell?).

The amount of description we got in that article made it sound like it was as easy as a child swinging at a pinata. I mean sure, the Chain Veil does give her a certain level of power that is greater than most, but come on now, this is something that was created to hold back the marjority of the evil found on Innistrad and lock it away forever (although thanks to ROE, there's precedence for releasing great, ancient evils just by slipping on a banana peel).

...and yah, I agree that the article seemed to jump from Griselbrand being released to Griselbrand dying very quickly. It was way too easy. Shouldn't he have some sort of power over her due to the deal she made with him (this seems to be the case with most crossroads demon deal scenarios)? Guess she can check off that chore on her task list.

Yeesh.

Yeah! But if nobody else wants to write for Sorin, I might... problem is, beyond saying "Hey look Sorin's here too!" we have absolutely NO IDEA what he's up to. We don't know the whos, the wheres, the whats, or the whys (except that he's looking for Avacyn). It's a little frustrating.

Not quite as frustrating as getting exactly 0 closure on Garruk's story, though. Are they really ending the Innistrad block story with "and Garruk continues being cursed, chasing Liliana, and nothing has changed about him"??????

*grumblegrumble* 


I think I'd prefer to handle Sorin's appearance in it if we can't get anybody to fill that in.
Think you could handle Thalia's role instead?

@Stoic: She couldn't break it herself, she needed someone else to make the choice. The spell was Liliana's ultimate.


@Stoic: She couldn't break it herself, she needed someone else to make the choice. The spell was Liliana's ultimate.



Ah, well even with that being the case, the amount of description was severely lacking.

Yeah! But if nobody else wants to write for Sorin, I might... problem is, beyond saying "Hey look Sorin's here too!" we have absolutely NO IDEA what he's up to. We don't know the whos, the wheres, the whats, or the whys (except that he's looking for Avacyn). It's a little frustrating.

Not quite as frustrating as getting exactly 0 closure on Garruk's story, though. Are they really ending the Innistrad block story with "and Garruk continues being cursed, chasing Liliana, and nothing has changed about him"??????

*grumblegrumble* 


I think I'd prefer to handle Sorin's appearance in it if we can't get anybody to fill that in.
Think you could handle Thalia's role instead?

@Stoic: She couldn't break it herself, she needed someone else to make the choice. The spell was Liliana's ultimate.


Haha, that's legit; I don't know what I'd do with Sorin anyways. Thalia I can do no problem.
"There are probably seven persons, in all, who really like my work; and they are enough. I should write even if I were the only patient reader, for my aim is merely self-expression." ~H.P. Lovecraft

My Colors Are Green and Blue I value respect, honesty, acceptance, and trust. I love to tell stories and to experience new things. At my best, I am compassionate and creative. At my worst, I am detached and submissive. My enemies are Black and White.

I was expecting a better explanation of what Liliana actually did to open the Helvault. It pretty much boiled down to her making sure she could complete a spell without being interrupted by Thalia and her band of loyal cathars (which begs the question: Why didn't Liliana just wait until they were asleep and cast the spell?).


I had a problem with that scene too. I knew Thalia would be forced to decide between protecting the Helvault and saving her comrades, but I thought it would be through a more elaborate situational contrivance. I didn't expect Liliana to just cast Cruel Edict on her.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
I was expecting a better explanation of what Liliana actually did to open the Helvault. It pretty much boiled down to her making sure she could complete a spell without being interrupted by Thalia and her band of loyal cathars (which begs the question: Why didn't Liliana just wait until they were asleep and cast the spell?).


I had a problem with that scene too. I knew Thalia would be forced to decide between protecting the Helvault and saving her comrades, but I thought it would be through a more elaborate situational contrivance. I didn't expect Liliana to just cast Cruel Edict on her.



Yeah it's a bit dissapointing. Then again, Vess is no Szadek.
… and then, the squirrels came.
Vess spent the whole of AoA manipulating Jace, Tezzeret, and, arguably, Nicol Freaking Bolas. She's pretty sharp. This might just be a case of what was expedient, though... it got the job done. No need to add extra complications. I think that's what makes her a threat rather than just a villain.

Also, yeah. Sorin. What's up with him? I feel like he needs to have at least a confrontation with the head of his household by the end of the narrative, right? But other than that... yeah, I got nothing. Ditto for Garruck. Maybe you could have Garruck and Sorin interact somehow by the end? Ugh, I don't know.
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"Oh hey Garruk."
"Sorin. What are you doing here?"
"I was here to find Avacyn, but it looks like she's okay now, so we're good. You?"
"I was looking for a necromancer, but she got away. I'm leaving now."
"Yeah, me too."
"Well it was good seeing you."
"Yeah. Bye."
And then they both left Innistrad forever.

And the fact that Liliana can use elaborate Batman Gambits and has in the past- but is electing the fast, messy options- is just evidence of the fact that she's getting more desperate. Or that the veil is serieously starting to mess with her. Probably a little of both.
"The truth resists simplicity."
Some memorable quotes
57461258 wrote:
I know, as a good liberal scholar, that I'm supposed to respect every other belief and culture and what have you that comes along but... at the end of the day, when all is said and done, some things are just plain wrong.
92481331 wrote:
Venser "Ah, Hello Myr. This is the King. Long Time no see. We thought today would be a good day for rolling. The Myr Battlesphere. The Myr. Where the first rolls and the second follows. Roll, roll, roll. For that purpose we went to the bother, the bother of fixing up Mirrodin. The King of the Multiverse going to the bother just for rolling a Myr Battlephere, just for that, we went to the bother."
92126575 wrote:
Heard a joke once: Mare goes to doctor. Says she's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says she feels all alone in a threatening world where even ponies you thought were your friends can't be trusted. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Go to one of Pinkie Pie's great parties tonight. Party hard. That should pick you up." Mare bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Pinkie Pie." Good joke. Everypony laughs. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.
69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
CANON is the collected events and details of a fictional work that come directly from its author or someone with equal authority to the author. CANNON is a weapon that fires metal balls at a target, usually a structure or a crowd of enemy combatants. Every time you confuse the two, I'm forced to break one of my own fingers.
I'd go more for Garruk just missing Liliana, but getting Avacyn to lift his curse, and then setting out after Liliana with renewed vigor/powers.  Of course, we don't know if Garruk's curse is going to be lifted, so we can hardly run with that.

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I see Garruk as having one more stage of getting worse before it's time for him to be cured.
Just straight green black from the immediate outset with emphasis on the black.
A while back one of the editor was all like I took creative writing class blah blah blah... I want to by what I learn in school blah blah blah chase the character up tree, throw rocks at him and make him come down blah blah blah.

Far as I'm concern when Restored rolled around, everyone was all like "WELP FUDGE THIS... We Has Ravanica they'll forgive us!" It would seem they pulled a ME3 on us and the ending of Restore is kinda like the Indoctrination Theory. lol
........What?
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I see Garruk as having one more stage of getting worse before it's time for him to be cured.
Just straight green black from the immediate outset with emphasis on the black.


Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I could get behind the story ending with Garruk passing the next rubicon of cursed-ness. It could end with him still chasing Liliana, but having fallen more completely to the curse, striking a "darker than ever" chord even as the rest of Innistrad rejoices in the restoration of Avacyn.
"There are probably seven persons, in all, who really like my work; and they are enough. I should write even if I were the only patient reader, for my aim is merely self-expression." ~H.P. Lovecraft

My Colors Are Green and Blue I value respect, honesty, acceptance, and trust. I love to tell stories and to experience new things. At my best, I am compassionate and creative. At my worst, I am detached and submissive. My enemies are Black and White.

My personal desire is to see Garruk's curse burnt out of him with red mana. Maybe Gideon and Chandra could do it together, seeing as they're BFFs. I can see that kind of curse taking a powerful dose of to cure.
Rules Adviser, casual tournament organizer, lover of EDH and MtG evangelist.
My personal desire is to see Garruk's curse burnt out of him with red mana.



But red is lousy with enchantments. :P
....Not with Liquimetal Coating, we aren't...

*pouts*
Rules Adviser, casual tournament organizer, lover of EDH and MtG evangelist.
When all you have is a Shatter everything starts to look like an artifact...
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
When all you have is a Shatter everything starts to look like an artifact...



That's why I use Shatterstorm so all those artifacts can suffer.
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