04/09/2012 Feature: "Avacyn Restored Mechanics"

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This thread is for discussion of this weeks's Feature Article, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
So... Soulbond is kinda like Banding, only more complicated?
So far, this looks like the most boring set in years.  Clearly this "draw triggers" thing is supposed to be incredibly exciting....emphasis on "supposed to".  Since that doesn't work for me, and I'm not impressed by the Soulbound stuff so far, the only cards in the set which do much for me are the ones with undying....which could have been in Dark Ascension or even Innistrad if the mechanic hadn't been deliberately held back.  So yeah, pretty much planning to sleep through this set at the moment.
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If Soulbond is like Banding, then so is Aegis Angel.
I actually am quite intrigued by soulbond. The concept seems like it could be an interesting fixed banding. Miracle...well my and other's comments in Maro's article's thread deal with that.

My main complaint is that flavor-wise this set seems balnd so far. I know, I know, we've seen only a dozen cards from the set. But going from horror central and imminent defeat to "ANGELS EVERYWHERE" seems really jarring. Then again, they don't have to sell this set at all: announcing Ravnica gives them a 'get out of jail free card' until September.
Fixed banding seems reasonable, if uninspiring.

Boo, to Miracle at uncommon. I hoped it would be virtually non-existant in draft, so I don't have to play with it if I suck at remembering draw triggers.
Hm. Fixed banding... much better than the Slivers' version of "fixed" banding.

Miracle seems a little... crazy.

Always happy to see more flicker variants.
Soulbond is nothing like banding. Nothing like banding. All soulbond does is give both creatures in the "pair" an ability like flying or double strike. Banding is an ability that is used during combat that changes the way combat damage is dealt. They are not alike, not even close.
What happens when you draw sorcery miracle card during your opponent's turn? Could you cast it for its miracle cost? If so, then when?
What happens when you draw sorcery miracle card during your opponent's turn?

Exactly the same thing as when you draw it on your turn. "Normal" timing is completely irrelevant for Miracles. If you miracle-draw it on your opponent's turn, you can cast it right then and there, for the same reason you can cast it if you miracle-draw it during your draw step--you can't normally cast sorceries then, either.

Heck, if "normal" timing mattered, you'd never be able to use Miracles at all.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Doesn't Miracle really mess up most good (non-mtgo) player's drawing technique? I mean, aren't most good players used to drawing blind into their hand, shuffling the card in, then looking at their whole hand afterwards to avoid giving away any tells on the drawn card? Now, it's likely that the cards won't be worth running in tournaments, but still...

Then on MTGO, there seems to be a different fault. Normally, both players set the client to not stop at the end of the draw phase. So now, if your oponent draws a miracle card, the client is going to stop and give your opponent priority to conisder casting the miracle card. Thus, you reveal to your opponent that you've just drawn a miracle card, even if you don't cast that. Say, for instance, that only a limited number of them end up valuable in limited, especially in certain colors. Now, you have to account for the fact that you're giving your opponent information just for drawing them.

Also, soulbound is nothing whatsoever like banding--it doesn't affect how creatures attack or how damage is assigned when blocking. So, none of the difficulty at all.
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No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?
No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?



At first I thought there were no timing restrictions on when you can play the card but I read it again and realized that you can only play it right when you draw it.  If you get to the main phase it is too late.

Soulbound is interesting in that you could give a creature that can attack something to make it better.  But it gets a little annoying that when one dies, both cards lose the ability.
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I had a similar thought as the MTGO comment.  Players will now have to pause after each draw, whether it is a miracle or not, to prevent the opponent from knowing a miracle may have just been drawn.
No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?



At first I thought there were no timing restrictions on when you can play the card but I read it again and realized that you can only play it right when you draw it.  If you get to the main phase it is too late.

Soulbound is interesting in that you could give a creature that can attack something to make it better.  But it gets a little annoying that when one dies, both cards lose the ability.



I mean at what point is it too late to reveal? As soon as it touches another card in your hand? As soon as it's in the same physical hand as your other cards in your hand? As long as you didn't arrange the order of cards in your hand?

I guess it's the same ruling as for cards like Delver of Secrets and Dark Confidant, but I don't know that ruling off the top of my head. And I image many other readers don't either.
No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?



At first I thought there were no timing restrictions on when you can play the card but I read it again and realized that you can only play it right when you draw it.  If you get to the main phase it is too late.

Soulbound is interesting in that you could give a creature that can attack something to make it better.  But it gets a little annoying that when one dies, both cards lose the ability.



I mean at what point is it too late to reveal? As soon as it touches another card in your hand? As soon as it's in the same physical hand as your other cards in your hand? As long as you didn't arrange the order of cards in your hand?

I guess it's the same ruling as for cards like Delver of Secrets and Dark Confidant, but I don't know that ruling off the top of my head. And I image many other readers don't either.



You have "drawn" a card when it touches other cards in your existing hand.  At that point, it's too late to trigger Miracle.
Soulbound is like an enchant creature that is also a creature as opposed to banding. The bookkeeping on what creatures have what in this model might be unfun. 'Wait, that creature had what again?'

Miracle works on another players' turn as long as it is the first card you draw-so keep track of that. You just have to hope that the new border is distracting enough to prevent you from doing your normal Magic habits of just putting the card in your hand. This is a grief yourself mechanic. I thought this set was intended to only be fun online based on the hastles these two mechanics create for paper that online play can solve, but people are also complaining that micracle jacks up online play too. What a shame.    
For people complaining that you might not "notice" drawing a Miracle card until it's too late... For one, if you have miracles in your deck, PAY ATTENTION. Two, you might notice that Mircale cards have a "stick out like a sore thumb" look to them to assist you in noticing it even if you're not paying that close of attention.
I guess it's the same ruling as for cards like Delver of Secrets and Dark Confidant, but I don't know that ruling off the top of my head. And I image many other readers don't either.

Seems Sylvan Library may have the answers we need.

You have "drawn" a card when it touches other cards in your existing hand.  At that point, it's too late to trigger Miracle.



Thanks =)

Seems Sylvan Library may have the answers we need.

 

I'm not seeing it? >.> 
Seems Sylvan Library may have the answers we need.

 

I'm not seeing it? >.> 


Re-arrange the top of your library so you always hit Miracle on your next turn.
I hope this isn't Wizards' attempt at fixed banding... because this isn't like banding at all. Banding is about creatures that have to be all blocked as one or let through as one. This doesn't do that. Those creatures still get blocked seperately.
Seems Sylvan Library may have the answers we need.

 

I'm not seeing it? >.> 

Sylvan Library taught us to keep cards "drawn this turn" clearly separated from the rest of our hand years ago.  Miracles are quite similar.
I hope this isn't Wizards' attempt at fixed banding... because this isn't like banding at all. Banding is about creatures that have to be all blocked as one or let through as one. This doesn't do that. Those creatures still get blocked seperately.


This is enchant creature cards in creature form. Wingcrafter is Flight as a 1/1 creature, and if the creature it 'enchants' is still in play, Wingcrafter also has flying.

The keyed words they used to describe it make it seem like a banding variant. The keyed words make you think that wingcrafter paired with craw wurm would result in a 7/5 with flying and neither part would die if the whole took 4 damage. Instead what you get is a 1/1 with flying and a 6/4 with flying. If the 6/4 leaves play, then the 1/1 no long has flying.      


This is enchant creature cards in creature form.



Remake of licids then?

My original remark was targeted at all those trying to claim it WAS fixed banding.

Seems Sylvan Library may have the answers we need.

 

I'm not seeing it? >.> 

Sylvan Library taught us to keep cards "drawn this turn" clearly separated from the rest of our hand years ago.  Miracles are quite similar.



Define 'us'. I'd bet it's not the majority reading that article. Not even taking into account all the players who player years ago but don't know how to play Sylvan Library correctly. 
No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?

Soulbound is interesting in that you could give a creature that can attack something to make it better.  But it gets a little annoying that when one dies, both cards lose the ability.


When a creature enters the battlefield, you can pair it with a Soulbond creature already on the battlefield.


But yeah, all Soulbond means ruleswise is: "spells/abilities that say pairing work."
This is enchant creature cards in creature form. Wingcrafter is Flight as a 1/1 creature, and if the creature it 'enchants' is still in play, Wingcrafter also has flying.

It's also the latest take on their attempt at the Mount mechanic. Wingcrafter is a flying mount. Silverblade Paladin... shares his horse with someone? So yeah. I'm calling it now: When MaRo writes his article about how Soulbond came to be, it will be "Two groups were working on two different mechanics - mounts and aura-creatures - and we eventually realized they were actually the same mechanic."
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Doesn't Miracle really mess up most good (non-mtgo) player's drawing technique?

Not particularly, considering they've all been playing with Delver of Secrets since Innistrad's release, and playing with Delver necessitates pretty much the exact same motions that playing with Miracle does.

Then on MTGO, there seems to be a different fault. Normally, both players set the client to not stop at the end of the draw phase. So now, if your oponent draws a miracle card, the client is going to stop and give your opponent priority to conisder casting the miracle card. Thus, you reveal to your opponent that you've just drawn a miracle card, even if you don't cast that. Say, for instance, that only a limited number of them end up valuable in limited, especially in certain colors. Now, you have to account for the fact that you're giving your opponent information just for drawing them.

This already happens in the beginning of combat step with tap effects, and in the upkeep with certain other effects--when you put a stop in the beginning of combat or upkeep step, you're revealing information to your opponent. So far, this doesn't seem to have caused any negative effects.

No words on when you are too late with Miracle's trigger?

Basically, if there is even a remote possibility that you could have mixed up your draw with another card from your hand, no miracle for you. If it touches the cards in your hand, it's too late.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I don't know why they bothered mentionning loners and flickering. Neither mean anything.
I don't know why they bothered mentionning loners and flickering. Neither mean anything.

They mean about as much as Gating, which is to say: expect a huge pile of it, but only one or two of those are not going to end up at the bottom of a birdcage after a draft ends.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Not a exciting group of new keywords. Hopefully the cards will be interesting.  

So... Soulbond is kinda like Banding, only more complicated?



Not possible. 

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Miracle: amazing
Soulbond: wicked 
"Loners": cool
Fickering: pretty sweet

And jesus I'm super-excited for Return to Ravnica.
Not sure how I feel about Miracle yet, but I like how flickering and Soulbond interact.
So far with the cards that have been spoiled, flickering only works on creatures you control.  I'm interested to see if there will be any flickering against opponents creatures too.  Seems like it could be good against all the tolken decks that are being run, since i believe if you flicker a tolken it doesn't come back.  Not to mention strong against both regular and living equipment. 
I don't know why they bothered mentionning loners and flickering. Neither mean anything.

They mean about as much as Gating, which is to say: expect a huge pile of it, but only one or two of those are not going to end up at the bottom of a birdcage after a draft ends.




At least gating was a mechanic. Loners is not new, it isn't a mechanic or even a keyword. And I'm pretty sure creatures referred to as loners don't have a whole lot that makes them seem like they're part of a specific group of cards.

I thought flicker was being turned into a keyword, but apparently not. And it's not like it's a rare effect that doesn't usually show up, so I can't see why they bothered mentionning it either. It's an insult to our intelligence. 
The Soulbond reminder text is terrible. It implies that you can pair this creature with another one entering the battlefield even if this one is already paired. This is going to cause heated arguments with players who have seen only the cards and not the rules and take the reminder text at its word.

It also implies that you can pair this creature with another one entering the battlefield controlled by another player. The second sentence would immediately cause it to become unpaired, but any "when this becomes paired / if this is paired / if you control a paired creature / etc." triggers would still fire.

The reminder text should be something like (You may pair this creature with another creature you control when either enters the battlefield and both are unpaired. They remain paired as long as you control both of them.) Sucks if you have to reduce the font size, but sucks less than having the reminder text be wrong.
"Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, you may pair it with this creature as long as both are unpaired. They remain paired for as long as you control both of them."  Of course, this takes advantage of the slyness in MtG rules that "when a creature" triggers when this creature comes into play.
 "   
"Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, you may pair it with this creature as long as both are unpaired. They remain paired for as long as you control both of them."  Of course, this takes advantage of the slyness in MtG rules that "when a creature" triggers when this creature comes into play.
 "   


No, this doesn't work at all - when the Soulbond creature enters the battlefield, it may pair with another unpaired creature you control. Your text fails to mention the other creature, and instead implies that a Soulbond creature entering the battlefield may pair with itself.
Here's a question: if you play two creatures with Soulbound, can they bind to each other? The ability only allows creatures to be paired with other creatures that are unpaired. After one Soulbound creature triggers, the other Soulbound creature would trigger. And once the second one resolves, each creature is considered paired. Then when the first creature resolves, both of the creatures are considered paired and then are now unpaired? If so, one wouldn't want a deck with many Soulbound creatures, because they wouldn't be able to work together. If it doesn't work that was, the rule text needs to add "as long as both are unpaired with a different creature." or something of that sort.
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If there's a creature with soulbond and another creature with soulbond enters the battlefield under the same player's control, both their abilities will trigger.  The first one to resolve will give you the option to pair them.  If you choose to do so, the second one will do nothing on resolution (it won't unpair them).  If you didn't choose to pair them with the first ability to resolve, you can still choose to pair them with the second one.