[Rise of the Underdark]Realms Shaking Event Incoming!

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Well, another edition, another calamity to the Forgotten Realms! The Drow are coming out of the Underdark and are intent on conquering Faerun!

www.wizards.com/dnd/drow.aspx

Soooo, in the grand scheme of RSEs, how does this one sit with you? 
    

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

i guess it had to happen sooner or later, i was kind of getting used to not having to deal with ridiculous racism with every drow pc i made though.

as always, i'm optimistic that the writers and designers will be able to take this in an interesting direction though. i won't judge anything until we learn more.
oh wow.... but my drow mind you have been on the surface for a generation or two and prefer to deal in trade and will give you a rude hand gesture when it comes to politics...
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Huh. I just submitted a drow-releated article to Dungeon. I wonder if that increases or decreases the chance of it getting published.

Aside from that, I am not pessimisitic about a bit of drow mayhem in the Realms. I just frown a bit at the 'worlds spanning' event they had to turn it into.

Gomez
Thanks for the heads up, Alter_Boy.

This "event" (not using "RSE" just yet; will have to wait and see what WotC actually does first) reminds me of how the drow were coming to the surface at the start of 3rd Edition D&D, when the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting was first released.

You had more drow on the surface of the Realms, more chances to play them and interact with them (without having to do into the Underdark, which I think was the point) and otherwise use them in D&D campaigns.

I made use of those elements in my then Realms campaign. They were useful because they were largly in the background.

This event, however, feels like it's going to be very in your face. I'm not sure I like that.

Speaking of in your face: I never finished reading the War of the Spider Queen novels and I never read the novels having to do with the culling of the drow pantheon, but I will say I really hope this event doesn't herald the return of the dead drow gods.

Give me small, character-driven stories. Please don't blow up that part of the Forgotten Realms (as shown on the Realms map in the video) where a lot of people set their Realms campaigns.

The drow finding a place for themselves in the Realms could be a really cool story, provided the authors, editors and (yes, let's admit it) penny pinchers don't all decide the best way to do it is by breaking everyone's sandbox.

In other words: give us no more than a good shake of the snowglobe. OK?
Dunno... looks more like the Llolthans are coming to the surface finally.  From the brief glimpse of the map from the video, I think the map burning was more showing where they were erupting from, rather than something that was going to be destroyed in a literal sense.  Having said that though, I'd have to agree with Miscellany about it being completely in-you-face, which I know I don't care for as an approach to anything in gaming.  At least it didn't sound like the pantheon was coming with them, as it as all done from what I would presume was Llolth's perspective in the video.

As with most things D&D these days though, I'm just contenting myself with a wait and see plan.  Hopefully they'll redeem themselves with 5e/Next in my eyes.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Oh look... joy... another gigantic RSE for the Realms. 

Because apparently, when FR fans say for decades, "no more RSEs, we beg you," they somehow keep hearing us the wrong way.



They love e-books, I get it Yell
I actually do hope some of the not-so-dead-if--it-is-up-to-me drow deities return.
If the Drow are getting any new Deities, it`s probably going to be Driz`zt.


Edit: News from PAX East says that the first salvo takes place in Daggerdale.

Beneath the settlement of Dagger Falls, the deadly vanguard of an evil army crawls from the Underdark to threaten those who revere the light.

Her Radiance Dareen Travaskyr has led the Temple of Lathander’s Light for many years, making it a source of good and civilization in the otherwise wild Daggerdale. When the priestess received a vision urging her to create a powerful icon against an impending darkness, she employed a group of adventurers to complete her divinely inspired tasks. But evil has spies everywhere. Now, the party of heroes might be the only thing standing between forces bent on a grisly fate for the temple's inhabitants.



  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Lathander?  What era is this stuff supposed to be set in I wonder... not that I mind Lathander replacing Amuanator or anything, quite the contrary, I's iz just a bit confuzzled by that one.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

someone likely id using the wrong campaign setting book again....

or someone got confused

either that or its a left over sect that worships Amuanator...

see the morning lord paragon path for details     
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I'd be lying if I didn't say I was excited
The Temple of Lathander’s Light is a church dedicated to Amaunator named after the Morninglord.
It was kind of wild guess that some of Drow Gods are returning.   Lolthites on the surface well it was building up to the point of open war.  It is like another Crown War Eladrin versus the Drow.  I honestly do not see Drzzt becoming a god.  Also it may bring about the conclusion of Maerimydra and the Fire Giants. 


I will love to see Quenthel back in action as the Matron Mother of House Baenre. 



Guys I think that there are going be something worse than Drow that is going be next enemy.  There been some compaigns and yeah Forgotten Realms Wikia mentioning Drow as slaves in Chessenta and Thay.  Drow are being pushed out of the Under Dark.  I read up on literture of the Azers and they are pretty nasty folks and so are some of the lizard folks.  I would love to see some Mind Flayer action. 


Drow may be chaotic evil but that does not mean they don't plan for things.  It could be the Sava game that Corellon and Lolth are playing at the end of Lady Penitenent.  I being the devil advocate here.

I can see why both Vhaeraun and Eilastraee had to go.  Of the whole Drow Pantheon Eilastraee is one obstacle that would have prevent the Uprising of the Drow.  Vhaeraun was a rival that Lolth got tired of sharing the power. 

From that ad Lolth is becoming Cyric replacement.  She wants to be the Over God over Abier-Toril this is my take.   
Well...

I didn't care for War of the Spider Queen.

I didn't care for the Lady Penitent Trilogy. 

I thought the drow invasion orchestrated by Lolth and Malar in Evermeet was interesting, but probably not the best part of the book, so to see "Evermeet" replaced with "all Faerun" doesn't do Rise of the Underdark any favors, really.

As far as RSEs go, this one might actually turn out pretty mild, but that doesn't make me any more interested. If the novels were to focus on the impact of the Rise on individual characters and settlements, I'd probably be all for it, but I get the feeling it's going to be the more wide-reaching, "snapshots of every corner" approach that I definitely dislike. I'll wait and see, though. 

My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
The Temple of Lathander's Light is just a call-out to Faerun's past, not a continuity error. The Neverwinter book has a temple to Helm in Neverwinter (converted for other uses) as well.

Synopsis from the upcoming Encounters season:   

War of the Spider Queenruns May 16 through August 15, and starts off with seemingly innocent times in Shadowdale:

This realm and the town with which it shares its name are better known for the past than the present. Ancient battles and the ruins they left behind draw historians and adventurers alike to these lands. Storm and Syluné Silverhand once dwelled here, and sly Elminster still does. His protection has long kept Shadowdale safe, and even if Elminster's power has greatly diminished since his time as Mystra's Chosen, who would dare attack his home?


The white granite hill called Old Skull has loomed over Shadowdale for ages, but its significance has varied over time. When drow controlled the town, it was a sign of danger and domination. When their kind was forced out, the people of Shadowdale went back to seeing the hill as nothing more than a fascinating landmark. Sheep graze around it now, while children play atop its slopes of bare white stone.


A famed tavern takes its name from the landmark. The Old Skull Inn is known throughout Faerûn as a haven for adventurers. It is said that secret tunnels lead from the tavern's basement into catacombs under Old Skull—and from there into the Underdark. Adventurers gossip that a bribe to the innkeeper, Ghessla Silvermane, can gain an honest traveler access to the realms below the earth.


Lady Addee Ulphor rules Shadowdale, presiding over a land that has been peaceful for the twenty years since Lord Azalar Falconhand retired. The symbol of leadership, the Pendant of Ashaba, is Lady Ulphor's by right, and she keeps it secured in the Twisted Tower of Ashaba.



In War of the Spider Queen, you and your fellow adventurers have come to Shadowdale to investigate the drow's activities and delve into the caverns of the Underdark.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

i am psyched up about it
Well...

I didn't care for War of the Spider Queen.

I didn't care for the Lady Penitent Trilogy. 

I thought the drow invasion orchestrated by Lolth and Malar in Evermeet was interesting, but probably not the best part of the book, so to see "Evermeet" replaced with "all Faerun" doesn't do Rise of the Underdark any favors, really.

As far as RSEs go, this one might actually turn out pretty mild, but that doesn't make me any more interested. If the novels were to focus on the impact of the Rise on individual characters and settlements, I'd probably be all for it, but I get the feeling it's going to be the more wide-reaching, "snapshots of every corner" approach that I definitely dislike. I'll wait and see, though. 




Lord Manshoon, not to stir any speculations or spoilers but, Where did you Bury Elminster Deep?
another edition, another calamity to the Forgotten Realms!

4e already had an RSE. This seems more like a normal war, which FR could kinda use imho. And Drow seem pretty popular (but not horribly overused yet in 4e FR). Stuff will always need to happen in FR. Given the alternatives, this seems fine.
My guess is that RotU is supposed to be the transition RSE that gets the Realms from 4ed to 5ed (IE. explains why things are different "It's the Drow's fault!"). I don't expect another long timeline jump, but an invading army from underneath all of Faerun (with demonic allies) seems able to do pretty much whatever the devs want it to do.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

I am trying my hardest to not count my behirs before they've hatched (and so trampled all the chickens), eaten the farmer and gone rampaging across the countryside...

...but how is this going to work? I mean it seems to be intertwined with the Encounters program. Is what happens in Encounters games (or the greater proportion of them, like LFR was) canonical? Will the ultimate result of RotU be set in stone beforehand? Or will it be subject to the outcomes of the games?

As a transition RSE it gives me the fear. The denizens of this board know my feelings on the More Dangerous Realms... now it is going to become even more so?

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
Encounters is set in stone. The only thing that can get the party of the rails is a TPK.
More info from Rule of Three:

"Deep in the Abyssal darkness of the Demonweb Pits, the goddess Lolth is spinning a web of deceit, treachery, and ambition. Her goal is to seize control of arcane magic—a position that has lain vacant since the death of Mystra a hundred years ago.

To facilitate this grasp for power, Lolth sent a prophet—Danifae Yauntyrr—to all the cities of the drow. Danifae is a fallen priest, a scoundrel, a seductress, and—if history is any guide—an avatar of Lolth herself. Danifae whispered to the leaders of all the great drow houses, spurring them to gather ancient power to aid Lolth's ascent.


The drow are scouring the world for primordial relics (pieces of a dead or sleeping primordial), seeking out the remains of great wizards, gathering artifacts once sacred to Mystra, and fighting for control of magical locations on the world's surface.


As the drow gather arcane energy and channel it to Lolth, her power grows. Her web extends to cover most of the world, forming a Demon Weave to replace the sundered Weave that Mystra maintained—a new fabric of arcane magic. With that, the priests and wizards who serve Lolth have access to greater power than ever before, and their task becomes to use it.


Across the surface world, Lolth's servitors draw on the Demon Weave to create shrouds of darkness that cover league upon league of surface lands. Under this pall of darkness, the drow can move and fight freely during what would normally be daylight hours. With this aid, they can complete Lolth's transformation and bring the world to ruin."

www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Some of the related products look interesting to me: the two Dungeon Tiles sets (The Urban Underdark, Castle Grimstead) and the map pack (Vaults of the Underdark) in particular.  I can always use more maps to put on the gaming table and the dungeon tiles have been a staple of my game for years now.

Not sure what the D&D Fortune Cards (Drow Treachery) are all about, but I think I'll give it a look.

That aside, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised WotC is playing up the "who will try to replace Mystra?" angle.

I wonder if we're going to see Lolth duke it out with Asmodeus (he who at Azuth) in the near future?
Will the ultimate result of RotU be set in stone beforehand?

Yup (making those events effectively canonical). As such, this seems like a normal "save the world" scenario (with the PC's expected to be successful). However, since it's running across three seasons of encounters, I'd be dissapointed if WotC didn't use such a massively long event to explain any changes coming in 5e.


Hmmm...
Lolth has Eilistraee "inside" her. E did have a chosen in common with Mystra. I wonder if this will lead to the birth of a new Eilistraee-Mystra goddess of magic and explain the return of traditional spell casting (in 5e).

That sounds like an excellent speculation. Haven't they've been hinting for awhile at the return of Mystra?
Here's Some information for your minds from the Rule of Three 04/24/2012:


 What's the deal with the Rise of the Underdark campaign?


The Rise of the Underdark is a story theme that kicked off this year at PAX East, similar to what we did with Neverwinter last year. The Rise of the Underdark storyline is a series of interconnected stories, adventures, and products all related to the same storyline. I asked James Wyatt to give us an idea of what the story looks like, and he said:



Deep in the Abyssal darkness of the Demonweb Pits, the goddess Lolth is spinning a web of deceit, treachery, and ambition. Her goal is to seize control of arcane magic—a position that has lain vacant since the death of Mystra a hundred years ago.


To facilitate this grasp for power, Lolth sent a prophet—Danifae Yauntyrr—to all the cities of the drow. Danifae is a fallen priest, a scoundrel, a seductress, and—if history is any guide—an avatar of Lolth herself. Danifae whispered to the leaders of all the great drow houses, spurring them to gather ancient power to aid Lolth's ascent.


The drow are scouring the world for primordial relics (pieces of a dead or sleeping primordial), seeking out the remains of great wizards, gathering artifacts once sacred to Mystra, and fighting for control of magical locations on the world's surface.


As the drow gather arcane energy and channel it to Lolth, her power grows. Her web extends to cover most of the world, forming a Demon Weave to replace the sundered Weave that Mystra maintained—a new fabric of arcane magic. With that, the priests and wizards who serve Lolth have access to greater power than ever before, and their task becomes to use it.


Across the surface world, Lolth's servitors draw on the Demon Weave to create shrouds of darkness that cover league upon league of surface lands. Under this pall of darkness, the drow can move and fight freely during what would normally be daylight hours. With this aid, they can complete Lolth's transformation and bring the world to ruin.



Additionally, you'll be able to participate in the story through three D&D Encounters seasons (Web of the Spider Queen, Council of Spiders, and War of Everlasting Darkness), play in organized play events at GenCon (Dawn of Nightchampionship adventure), PAX Prime (The Sun Never Rises adventure), and local game stores (with two Lair Assault challenges—Spiderkiller and Kill the Wizard). Products tied to the Rise of the Underdark campaign include RPG books (Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook, Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue), two Dungeon Tiles sets (The Urban Underdark, Castle Grimstead), a map pack (Vaults of the Underdark), D&D Fortune Cards (Drow Treachery), the Dungeon Command skirmish board game's Sting of Lolth faction pack, and online content in Dragon issue #413 and Dungeon issue #204. There are also several novels related to the storyline, including War of the Spider Queen Volumes 1 & 2, Charon's Claw by R.A. Salvatore, and ebook exclusives: Sword of the Gods: Spinner of Lies by Bruce Cordell, Prince of Ravens by Richard Baker, Skein of Shadows by Marsheila Rockwell and Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson. Find out more at DungeonsandDragons.com/drow


 
Well, after reading that bit, any interest I had in this just evaporated.  Definitely not my cup of tea.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

likely to be that drow are overdone.

or the idea doesnt sit well.

but then I'm not Stigger and cant speak for him

not interested     in it either myself though.


and its becasue the druid class is available for those who preorder. and I dont care for mmos and even more so if they only release x classes for them and not all the ones from phb1 and 2   
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
An antithetical Weave replica that focuses on darkness and is primarily intended for those free from moral compunction, eh?

Now, why do I feel like I've encountered this before?  

Reading over that Ro3 info, I can't say my excitement for Rise of the Underdark has increased. I was a bit disappointed to see it even earned a spot in Ro3 to begin with, but that's beside the point. Basically, the tactics of the drow seem to be "feed Lolth every scrap of arcane magic under the sun, and kill every non-drow you see", which is honestly on-par with what I expected in terms of the "complexity" of their designs. Can't wait for the drow to stumble into pockets of spellplague; they can have fun with that.

It'd be funny to see Lolth get shivved by Shar for trying to claim magic as her own domain, though. I'm aware it's never going to happen, but the thought of Lolth trying to beat Shar at her own game and paying for it is somewhat amusing. 

 
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
The Forgotten Realms have turned into Drowville.

If it isn't about drow, have drow in it, or have Drizzt in it, it isn't worth doing.

Well, maybe that's overstated, but I'm getting really tired of drow as the chief ingredient in my FR soup, if you get my meaning.  I can't be the only one.

Write some more about aboleths.  We haven't had enough aboleths yet. 

Maybe write something about an aboleth with a heart of gold that becomes a ranger of Silvanus or something and wields a pair of spinning tridents in his tentacles, then later falls in love with a dwarf chick.  Awesome.
^ Lol

I'm pretty excited by the possibility that magic might become the domain of an evil goddess in 5E. That'll surely require some change in perspective for arcane characters (everyone's a warlock now?). 
Well, after reading that bit, any interest I had in this just evaporated.  Definitely not my cup of tea.



I am curious, why?



Well, its a multi-faceted reason really. 

One is that I'm sick of this whole make magic evil thing that they've been harping on since the Shadow Weave was introduced.  Not that it hasn't been a theme for much longer, but with the Shadow Weave they took it to absurdity levels and its only been getting worse.  It just strikes me that one of the overarching themes of the Realms has been that magic has been as much a shield and protector as it had been a sword and oppressor, if not moreso.  That's what I enjoyed so much about Mystra to be honest, that magic wasn't something to be feared so much as respected and worked with.  It got rid of a lot of what amounted to me as Christian dogmatic beliefs and really divorced the setting from the real world for me.  Now... well, I'll just leave it at the settings approach to magic is really turning me off of it.

Two, must all of the massive threats have a female pushing them?  I know its probably a bit touchy for some people, but after essentially neutering the strong female presences in the Realms with 4e, except for the evil ones of course, and then continuing the trend with this whole Llolth thing, its just getting to be too much for me.  One of the things I loved about the Realms was the presence of strong female characters, who didn't need men to prop them up or approve of them, and I don't really see that anymore in the Realms.  Certainly one can find exceptions to that, but the problem is that they are exceptions rather than the norm.

Three, I'm going to have to echo others in that the Drow have been done to death of late.  It was bad enough that they wrecked the Dales with them, now they're going to spread the taint across the whole surface world AND toss in areas of eternal darkness.  Great.  As if the floating globs of land weren't bad enough.  While I don't want to see aberrations rising to more evil prominence, I can't stand all that Cthuluesque stuff, I do agree that we need a change in the Big Bad Evil of the setting besides Llolth (who ultimately pushed the Drow to the surface in my book, that they were actually Vhaerunites was besides the point, since he ultimately served her ends when it came down to it whether he knew it or not) and Shar, and their various minions and proxies.

Lastly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  It was the Seldarine who forced her down into the Underdark, and they're still around as far as I'm aware.  Its not like Corellon got any less powerful... To top that off for me though, is that it just mirrors the whole Dark Lilith mythos too much for my liking, which ultimately is an extremely sexist notion right off the bat, at least to my mind.  I know they changed it enough so that one can say, yeah, she's pretty evil and deserved being tossed down, but still, the basic myth is still there and leaves a bad taste in the mouth when its played up so much.  I'd have preferred they left Llolth in the background rather than making her so very prominent.  I just think she works better there, creeping up in the darkness on you, never striking until it was too late.  At least that was my preferred take on her.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Well, after reading that bit, any interest I had in this just evaporated.  Definitely not my cup of tea.



I am curious, why?



Well, its a multi-faceted reason really. 

One is that I'm sick of this whole make magic evil thing that they've been harping on since the Shadow Weave was introduced.  Not that it hasn't been a theme for much longer, but with the Shadow Weave they took it to absurdity levels and its only been getting worse.  It just strikes me that one of the overarching themes of the Realms has been that magic has been as much a shield and protector as it had been a sword and oppressor, if not moreso.  That's what I enjoyed so much about Mystra to be honest, that magic wasn't something to be feared so much as respected and worked with.  It got rid of a lot of what amounted to me as Christian dogmatic beliefs and really divorced the setting from the real world for me.  Now... well, I'll just leave it at the settings approach to magic is really turning me off of it.

Two, must all of the massive threats have a female pushing them?  I know its probably a bit touchy for some people, but after essentially neutering the strong female presences in the Realms with 4e, except for the evil ones of course, and then continuing the trend with this whole Llolth thing, its just getting to be too much for me.  One of the things I loved about the Realms was the presence of strong female characters, who didn't need men to prop them up or approve of them, and I don't really see that anymore in the Realms.  Certainly one can find exceptions to that, but the problem is that they are exceptions rather than the norm.

Three, I'm going to have to echo others in that the Drow have been done to death of late.  It was bad enough that they wrecked the Dales with them, now they're going to spread the taint across the whole surface world AND toss in areas of eternal darkness.  Great.  As if the floating globs of land weren't bad enough.  While I don't want to see aberrations rising to more evil prominence, I can't stand all that Cthuluesque stuff, I do agree that we need a change in the Big Bad Evil of the setting besides Llolth (who ultimately pushed the Drow to the surface in my book, that they were actually Vhaerunites was besides the point, since he ultimately served her ends when it came down to it whether he knew it or not) and Shar, and their various minions and proxies.

Lastly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  It was the Seldarine who forced her down into the Underdark, and they're still around as far as I'm aware.  Its not like Corellon got any less powerful... To top that off for me though, is that it just mirrors the whole Dark Lilith mythos too much for my liking, which ultimately is an extremely sexist notion right off the bat, at least to my mind.  I know they changed it enough so that one can say, yeah, she's pretty evil and deserved being tossed down, but still, the basic myth is still there and leaves a bad taste in the mouth when its played up so much.  I'd have preferred they left Llolth in the background rather than making her so very prominent.  I just think she works better there, creeping up in the darkness on you, never striking until it was too late.  At least that was my preferred take on her.


The FR don't seem like your setting then. If you want cool and original fantasy stories, D&D fantasy is not really where it's at. 
must all of the massive threats have a female pushing them?  I know its probably a bit touchy for some people, but after essentially neutering the strong female presences in the Realms with 4e, except for the evil ones of course, and then continuing the trend with this whole Llolth thing, its just getting to be too much for me.  One of the things I loved about the Realms was the presence of strong female characters, who didn't need men to prop them up or approve of them, and I don't really see that anymore in the Realms.  Certainly one can find exceptions to that, but the problem is that they are exceptions rather than the norm.

Three, I'm going to have to echo others in that the Drow have been done to death of late.  It was bad enough that they wrecked the Dales with them, now they're going to spread the taint across the whole surface world AND toss in areas of eternal darkness.  Great.  As if the floating globs of land weren't bad enough.  While I don't want to see aberrations rising to more evil prominence, I can't stand all that Cthuluesque stuff, I do agree that we need a change in the Big Bad Evil of the setting besides Llolth (who ultimately pushed the Drow to the surface in my book, that they were actually Vhaerunites was besides the point, since he ultimately served her ends when it came down to it whether he knew it or not) and Shar, and their various minions and proxies.

Lastly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  It was the Seldarine who forced her down into the Underdark, and they're still around as far as I'm aware.  Its not like Corellon got any less powerful... To top that off for me though, is that it just mirrors the whole Dark Lilith mythos too much for my liking, which ultimately is an extremely sexist notion right off the bat, at least to my mind.  I know they changed it enough so that one can say, yeah, she's pretty evil and deserved being tossed down, but still, the basic myth is still there and leaves a bad taste in the mouth when its played up so much.

You seem to be indicating that you don't like Rise of the Underdark primarily because it's sexist? Interesting; thank you for clarifying your statement of "any interest I had in this just evaporated.  Definitely not my cup of tea."

You seem to be indicating that you don't like Rise of the Underdark primarily because it's sexist? Interesting; thank you for clarifying your statement of "any interest I had in this just evaporated.  Definitely not my cup of tea."

Actually, he indicated he didn't like it because A) Drow have been done to death and B) the portrayal of female characters (those that remain) has thus far been done in a manner he doesn't like and this latest from WotC is continuing that trend.

I agree with Stigger on A, I don't on B, and I don't understand why Stigger's opinion should be anyone else's concern.
that is how I read stigger's post Mr. M.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Bleh.  I'm an avowed drow fan, and was hoping for something more.  Trying to take over arcane magic seems so already done.  It's a very uninspiring idea.
+1
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
This sounds pretty awesome.

But given what has happened so far to the 'magic' gods, you would think Lloth would leave it alone!


Also, Shar will be pissed. 

 
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