04/04/2012 LI: "Underrated Cards in Dark Ascension-Innistrad Limited"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
With the exclusion of Gruesome Discovery, I already play all those cards. I wasnt even aware that they were being "undervalued"...

Ive been playing the Scarecrow every time I see it since the second week of ISD. ;)


~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
It seems like the point of Haunted Fengraf is mostly that it's hardly a land. If you see it as a colorless uncounterable Raise Dead it's pretty ok. (although it does also help out with mana issues)
I usually get a One-Eyed Scarecrow in my drafts.  Primarily because of not having anything in my colors in the pack, but I know its usefulness.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
I don't think the Fiend Hunter - Saving Grasp combo works the way the author imagines.

"If you have a Fiend Hunter, there are few better cards to complement it with than Saving Grasp. With this two-card combo, you get to permanently exile two of your opponent's creatures—and then keep a third one hidden under your Fiend Hunter."

When you return Fiend Hunter to your hand, it leaves the battlefield.  Therefor, the creature exiled with Fiend Hunter will be returned to the battlefield.  It won't remain permanently exiled because Fiend Hunter's second line of text reads "When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control."

You can end up permanently exiling two TOKEN creatures if that's what Steve Sadin meant; otherwise, this is pretty glaring error on his part.
I don't think the Fiend Hunter - Saving Grasp combo works the way the author imagines.

"If you have a Fiend Hunter, there are few better cards to complement it with than Saving Grasp. With this two-card combo, you get to permanently exile two of your opponent's creatures—and then keep a third one hidden under your Fiend Hunter."

When you return Fiend Hunter to your hand, it leaves the battlefield.  Therefor, the creature exiled with Fiend Hunter will be returned to the battlefield.  It won't remain permanently exiled because Fiend Hunter's second line of text reads "When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control."

You can end up permanently exiling two TOKEN creatures if that's what Steve Sadin meant; otherwise, this is pretty glaring error on his part.



You're misunderstanding the interaction here.

You play Fiend Hunter and target a creature with it's ability. With that still on the stack you return it to your hand with Saving Grasp, which triggers the leaves play ability. That resolves first, doing nothing, and then the creature is exiled, with no way of getting it back.

I don't think Crushing Vines or One-Eyed Scarecrow are underrated at all, one's a solid sideboard card for anyone in green, and the other is worth grabbing a one-of for anyone not playing white-blue flyers. Both get drafted exactly as often as you'd expect with those roles.
I don't think the Fiend Hunter - Saving Grasp combo works the way the author imagines.

"If you have a Fiend Hunter, there are few better cards to complement it with than Saving Grasp. With this two-card combo, you get to permanently exile two of your opponent's creatures—and then keep a third one hidden under your Fiend Hunter."

When you return Fiend Hunter to your hand, it leaves the battlefield.  Therefor, the creature exiled with Fiend Hunter will be returned to the battlefield.  It won't remain permanently exiled because Fiend Hunter's second line of text reads "When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control."

You can end up permanently exiling two TOKEN creatures if that's what Steve Sadin meant; otherwise, this is pretty glaring error on his part.



You're misunderstanding the interaction here.

You play Fiend Hunter and target a creature with it's ability. With that still on the stack you return it to your hand with Saving Grasp, which triggers the leaves play ability. That resolves first, doing nothing, and then the creature is exiled, with no way of getting it back.


My original post was an example of my understanding of the rules before I've had my morning cup of coffee :-)  Thanks for correcting me, that is a very good combo.
I understand the reasoning for the rest of the cards and agree with it, but I'm still not getting Gavony Ironwright.

It's just going to be a Border Guard 95% of the time and that just seems so 'meh' to me.  Even in draft.  Sure it's a fat butt to hide behind, but...
I dunno.  Am I undervaluing a 1/4 for 3?

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From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

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Post #777

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MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

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MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

I've been praising Saving Grasp ever since the pre-release and people think I'm nuts for it. It really is such a versatile card, and I will always look to grab a couple if I'm ever drafting predominately UW. In addition to Fiend Hunter, it combos well with any ETB creature. I played a UW spirit deck in a sealed deck tournament with a couple copies of this card, and it worked well with Hollowhenge Spirit and Niblis of the Mist (especially with a Niblis of the Urn on the battlefield). I was tapping at leat two of my opponents creatures each turn, letting my fattest creature get through every time. My "removal" was cards like Bonds of Faith, Burden of Guilt, and Claustrophobia. I soon realized that against other UW builds, it works great against those spells as well (as mentioned in the article). Plus, it obviously saves your creatures from straight up removal, making your opponent waste a spell and help give you card advantage. The text on this card also states "creature you own". It negates mind control spells and abilities from the likes of Beguiler of Wills and Traitorous Blood. 
I agree with most of the cards but really can't see first-picking an Ironwright.  Would have to be a pretty bad pack.
The text on this card also states "creature you own".

Interesting, I hadn't caught that.  Maybe there's some kind of Gilded Drake combo available in Legacy (and certainly in casual).
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...