Name one thing you dont want to see from any edition

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1. 4th edition some races just don't fit.
Touchy subject. There are those that prefere the basic races elf dwarf human Halfling. Those that prefere a few more like drow gnome. Some that include Eladrin dragonborn tiefling. Others that include warforge genasi.
Some that want every race. Hey I want to play a skeleton. Why not.
I want to play a medusa. Why not. If your allowing so much then you open pandora box
I'm not looking for a debate here on my choice.
List your one thing you don't want to see from any edition.
Extensive imbalance. It's probably the only thing that modules can't work around.
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Ideas for 5E
I don't want to see a psionicist player being told 'Magic Resistance', 'spell resistance', or an 'Antimagic barrier', or 'dead magic zone' is making their powers not work. I'd also prefer the kensai not suck, and the paladin not be a dwarf wielding a hammer, but you can't always get what you want. So if I could make a wish, I'd like Psionics/Ki and Magic to be totally separate playing fields, like as far removed from each other as A fighter's sword skills and a cleric's healing spells. As far removed from Magic as Backstab is removed from Death Spell.

You know how you have that old sword trope - think of it as an extension of your hand? I think of Psionics as an extension of the Person. walk, run, jump, fly.
Options are Liberating
-THAC0

-Basic attacks for fighters while wizards reshape reality

-Easy/common death (including spammable SoDs or just "you die" effects) "balanced" by ridiculously common resurrection

-Level/ability drain (or ability damage or anything that makes you recalculate your entire character sheet in the middle of combat)

-Certain classes being required for the party to be successful

-Class/level limits/restrictions by race

-Separate level progressions for each class
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Hampered magic. (4th)

I want magic to be limited only by imagination. I want a huuuuuge spellbook for the casters and a huuuuuuge book of magic items for all.

The effects of those spells and magic items should not be limited by a balancing machine that only knows how to calculate the value of damage/To-Hit/push/pull/slide/daze/stun/skill effects, leading to spells and magic items that recognize only those factors.

The spells and effects should be written from a flavour view, and then be valued against other powers etc using a human touch to calculate level/worth.

Thus the game designer should think like this:

- "A really cool item would be "The slippers of shade"... They were created when a mad assassin poisoned her lover/partner with a cursed potion making his shadow break free of him and dragging him to the shadow plane. Little did she know though that part of him was never torn away and remained in his slippers. When the mad assassin woke up the next morning and put on the slippers, her lover took his revenge and plunged her through a window where she fell to her death. Rumours has it that a beggar stole her slippers and ran away with them and that the slippers have helped and killed many a wielder since then."
- Effect: A character who wields the slippers when attempting to kill someone will enjoy the benefits of the formers assassins protection, allowing the character to stretch shadows to cover him. If there is any shadow within 50', the character will always be considered concealed for the purpose of hiding when attempting to sneak up for a kill.
If the character wielding the slippers ever betrays someone who trusts him, the slippers will become cursed and irremovable until a remove curse is used. While wearing a pair of cursed slippers, a character can never find concealment, and should the character move within 30' of a ledge, it must roll a saving throw or be carried over the edge.

Then, someone would start figuring approximately how much such an item would be worth compared to others... i.e. level X?


The wrong way to design a spell would be for a designer to go the other way and use known powers and their values to create an item, and then name it later. I.e.


"Lets create an item that helps with hiding. If the item gives a +5 bonus to Hide, that would yield a net worth of X gold. Lets also say that it gives +5 to Move Silently... that yields another X gold worth. Hmmm... since it is a pair of boots it will take a slot that would usually be for adding an enchancement bonus to dex... So we should probably throw in +1 Enhancement to Dex as well, yielding another Y gold of worth. This means the item is worth 2*X+Y gold.... that is a Level Z item. Hmm... let's name these "Slippers of Shadow" since they are for hiding."
- Effect:  +5 Hide/+5 Move Silently/+1 Enhancement bonus to Dex.


If they create the item in the second manner, they are limiting magic to their tables... not their imaginations... creating an item that lacks soul... It is a dead, boring item without a tale... without flavour... and will only satisfy a bonus-chaser. A one-liner description such as "These slippers are black and soft and leaves a trail of shadow behind them", will do nothing to change the dullness of the item.


This is the worst thing that can happen to the wondrous magic world of D&D... the neutering of magic. Because writing a complete set of spells and magic items is beyond any non-hardcore-diehard DM, and without magic, D&D is not D&D to me - It is potatoe-fantasy (A friend uses the term for low-magic settings... I think it has to do with the fact that you are more likely to care about mundane problems such as crops, instead of evil plots of mad wizards. While he uses it as a postive description, for me potato-fantasy is a derogatory term but even so I love the phrase :D)....


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




@shintashi, why make psionics special?  Should primal powers (if those are kept) operate separate from magic?  Should divine and arcane magic operate on different rules?

bone_naga said a ot of what I agree with, so here's a few other ideas.

- Ability score boosts which cascade down the entire character sheet.  One of the most annoying things in 3.5 was trying to keep track of everything that a Cat's Grace spell changed.

- From 4e, immediate powers which may or may not change everything based on hidden information.  Example: the wand of accuracy which retroactively adds a +Dex bonus, or the shield spell which retroactively adds +4 to AC.  The problem with these approaches is that a player plays a guessing game to suss out the information "would an X have hit instead?  Because if not I don't want to waste the power."  The wand of accuracy being a "reroll with +Dex" or shild being DR (kind of like the fighter's unbreakable) will be less disruptive to the flow of the game.

- Potions which heal fixed damage.  This basically means that high level characters get potion resistance.  That feels wrong.  There has to be a better way to deal with potion spamming.

- Classes with a very rigid set of progression.  The 3.5 monk is the worst offender here.  At 12th level, every monk gets abundant step?  Meh.  The 3.5 paladin is almost as bad.

- Oh, speaking of the monk, I hope they don't go back to making "ki" something unique.  One of the things that 4e did completely and totally right was rolling ki into the psionic power source.  Don't make "asia" a power source again.
@shintashi, why make psionics special?  Should primal powers (if those are kept) operate separate from magic?  Should divine and arcane magic operate on different rules?

- Oh, speaking of the monk, I hope they don't go back to making "ki" something unique.  One of the things that 4e did completely and totally right was rolling ki into the psionic power source.  Don't make "asia" a power source again.




Psionics is no more special that a sword being wielded by a fighter. Speaking of Swords, I'd like the Kensai, Ninja, and Monk to use the same power source as the Psionicist. Do that and there's nothing special about it, but it still isn't "magic". Primal powers? Never played enough 3e to care. Let me google it...

druids. shamans. barbarians. Meh.

Shukenja? monks? warden? wtf is that?

ok, look. Druids worship. What they worship is irrelevant. What responds is. Barbarians and Kensai used to both strike as +5 weapons at 12th level. That's cool. No problem with it. Shukenja were sort of like Clerics in OA, but they were also sort of like Feng Shui masters. I didn't get it.

Wiki says shukenja "were the 7th century practitioners of the Japanese Religion of Shugendo"

now at first I was like "what the hell is shugendo?" so I looked it up.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shugend%C5%8D

looks like what happened when shinto priests of the mountains multiclassed as Taoists and Buddhists. It looks like in the 17th century, the priests were forced to pick a school of Buddhism, and in the 19th century under Meiji, it was completely banned and a few ended up going into official State Recognized Shinto sects.

My conclusion is the Shukenja is a specialty priest within the Taoist/Shinto/Buddhist mix. I applaud the Original attempt at presenting a Syncretic Class, but there's already a lot of Japanese classes and not enough other stuff.

What does this all have to do with power source? I've suggested Animism, Spirit, Ki, Chi, and Psi all use the same power source, and noted similarity between the kensai +5 and the barbarian +5. Conclusion?

They all use the same power source, and that source is not the same as wizards, spell books, and faeries. I wouldn't put the Feywild in the same source - look at the Saga of Hrolf Kraki and the story of Skuld.

ee Gawds?
 although to be technical,

when you call upon ancestors, or faith in some other power, buddha, or god, you are using 'divine' power source.

When you start doing the god/satan priest/witch thing, you start running into the "magic = religion" issue, which confuses whether or not a Priest is using spells or if Magic Resistance effects them. In Wrath of the Titans, the gods were powered by mortal faith. In some religions, the faith of mortals is irrelevant. Cthulhu doesn't care if you believe in him, and he won't go away if the whole world forgets, no matter how nice that might sound.

Personally i'd do away with "Divine" power source in the strictest sense, and say that gods are powered either by 1. faith 2. magic 3. psionics

Then you would compare the particular god's intervention type to the effect in question. Thus a priest of psionic aliens would always be Divine (Psionic), while a Gaiman Novel god would always be Divine (Faith).

That was a horribly complex subject to address, especially when you count in Clerics. That's why I made this thread:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

 I would probably resolve it by giving gods 6 power levels, and comparing their power level to the Resistance. For instance:

20      Quasipower
25      Demigod
30      Lesser Power
35      Intermediate Power
40      Greater God
N/A    Over Power (High God)

This is not unlike the Vancian vs. AEUD effect - more spells = less power. Getting the attention of higher deities is harder, and can be represented either as higher level spells, or as different frequency of Spell acquisition. Naturally game balance people will want all the gods to be equal to each other, but that's not really how it is even in fiction and pantheons of multiple deities.

Power source and Resistance are always going to create complications. I have no qualms with having more than 2 power sources. I have five fingers on my hand and can definitely count past three.
Options are Liberating
Mechanical/balance requirements for magic items. I don't want to be told that at level X everyone should have Y gold (or silver) worth of magical equipment, or that they should have a +2 weapon/implement and +2 armor and a +2 saves necklace. Magical loot should be a special reward and more than just a +4 sword you need to compete vs. the challenges of your particular level.
Sidenote:
This thread is proof that forum posters can't read.  The thread title says ONE.  What is MOST important.

Back to Thread:
AEDU alone. 
One item from each edition that I've played:
AD&D 2e: THAC0
3e: Wizards rule, fighters drool
4e: +X magic items being assumed as part of the basic math of the system
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Only played 4e but I have heard about stuff from previous editions.
1e: spell falure made low level wizards terrible
2e: THAC0
3e: Feats as class features.
4e: FEAT TAXES! 
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You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
Wizards and clerics using the same spell casting system.
Wizards and clerics using the same spell casting system.



icwutudidthar
pre 3.x: I don't want alignment/race restrictions on class

3.x: Dozens of splat books with prestige classes that wrecks the balance of the game. Prestige classes and options are fine, power building is fine, but it shouldnt break the game.

4th: Inflated numbers and the 1-3 hour combat encounter (I just did one encounter, that took 1.5 hours, and it was with a level one party of 4 players, and this seems to be the norm).
The one thing I could live without are attacks of opportunity and related ideas.  They've been around since at least Player's Option:  Combat & Tactics (a 2e book).  I've always overlooked 'em or at least glossed 'em over when I can.  

The general agreement right now is 'no cheese'.  That is, don't cast a spell or otherwise ignore the big guy right there, give him no chance to stick ya in the face ;).  Also, don't abuse the 'loophole'.  Our games seem to run smoother as a result.  

There's less worries about out-of-turn actions and interrupts, questions of forced movement, who has reach. Deal with the fella in front of ya first, or at the very least, don't ignore him, keep your guard up.  That's the rule-of-thumb.
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Excessive Accounting.

Whether it is making sure a monster has every darn feat and feature accounted for so that you don't get the "How can it do that?"  BS (3.5), to the it has the Dazed, stunned, slowed, giggle-fitted, fidgety and ticklish conditions that result in a -2 here, less 2 squares there... bla blah... (4e).

I don't want to have to be a math wizard or an accountant to make items, NPCs, monsters and adventures. I don't want to be a human computer, or rely on a battery of aids (Computer, whiteboards, trackers) just to play the game.  I don't want to be an IRS auditor just to make sure every player has his character right and balanced.
Excessive Accounting.

Whether it is making sure a monster has every darn feat and feature accounted for so that you don't get the "How can it do that?"  BS (3.5), to the it has the Dazed, stunned, slowed, giggle-fitted, fidgety and ticklish conditions that result in a -2 here, less 2 squares there... bla blah... (4e).

I don't want to have to be a math wizard or an accountant to make items, NPCs, monsters and adventures. I don't want to be a human computer, or rely on a battery of aids (Computer, whiteboards, trackers) just to play the game.  I don't want to be an IRS auditor just to make sure every player has his character right and balanced.



Hehe, we acutally had a running joke in our 4th ed game that whenever a character "died" we would break out "accounting calculators" as we all scoured powers, in play status effects, and magic items, looking for some tax like loophole so we could save the character. I am with you on this, lets deflate the numbers and the math, and make the game more stream lined in terms of figuring out the +x to hit and the +x to damage.
1st: Ultra-expendable characters
2nd: Different XP-Level progressions?  2nd is pretty inoffensive in what it included
3rd: Prestige Class Proliferation
4th: I have to pick just one?  Well, a lot of my problems with 4e aren't really what it had, I guess.  I mean, I don't hate ADEU -- I hate that everyone god ADEU and not any other power system (to start).  So, one thing I don't want to see: levels 21-30 core

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Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
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Excessive Accounting.

Whether it is making sure a monster has every darn feat and feature accounted for so that you don't get the "How can it do that?"  BS (3.5), to the it has the Dazed, stunned, slowed, giggle-fitted, fidgety and ticklish conditions that result in a -2 here, less 2 squares there... bla blah... (4e).

I don't want to have to be a math wizard or an accountant to make items, NPCs, monsters and adventures. I don't want to be a human computer, or rely on a battery of aids (Computer, whiteboards, trackers) just to play the game.  I don't want to be an IRS auditor just to make sure every player has his character right and balanced.



OMG!!!  THIS!!!!!

I was wondering what I was going to put (there are so many) but THIS just is so right.

I am a director of accounting.  By day, I do battle with auditors from Price Waterhouse, make sure everything is accounted for to the penny, build arcane spreadsheets, and deal with numbers which I personally believe in the grand scheme of things... mean absolutely nothing.  My work sucks the soul out of me... but I do it because they pay me well (that and the fact that I do find time to surf the internet occasionally *cough*).

When I game, the LAST thing I want to do is anything that resembles work.  Just gimme a character concept and a dice to roll.
@lawolf
Whatever I think of your opinions, you are the first and only person who can follow directions on this board.

Here is some help for the others.

The question is -->
  Name ONE thing you don't want to see from ANY edition

  That means just one thing.  Choose any edition to pick that one thing from.  The fact that it is limited is the point.  You have to pick the absolute worse thing you remember.
Extensive imbalance. It's probably the only thing that modules can't work around.



This would be the one for me, as well.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I would never want to see the ranger changed from the way it works in 4e now.
I would never want to see D&D turned into some idiotic CCG.
I would never want to see psions using a different system than any other spellcaster. 
@lawolf
Whatever I think of your opinions, you are the first and only person who can follow directions on this board.

Here is some help for the others.

The question is -->
  Name ONE thing you don't want to see from ANY edition

  That means just one thing.  Choose any edition to pick that one thing from.  The fact that it is limited is the point.  You have to pick the absolute worse thing you remember.


That's very hard to do in this case.  It's very difficult to pick one problem from all previous editions because the circumstances of each edition make a problem worse or better.  For example: I know you dislike AEDU.  Now consider how different it would be if AEDU existed in 3e, AD&D 2e, etc.  To cite one problem as the worst, without consideration of the surrounding system is nearly incomprehensible.

Perhaps the best analogy I can come up with to illustrate this point is food.  Imagine that AEDU is chocolate frosting (or, if you like chocolate, a different flavor that you dislike).  Chocolate frosting (AEDU), even if you dislike it, is less offensive on a cake (4e) than it would be on a roasted chicken breast (3e) or scrambled eggs (AD&D).
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

rolling massive amounts of d6's for any reason at all

i personally work around this by halving the number and changing them to d12's, but holy crap either rolling that many dice or converting to my system it's annoying either way
Okay, are we really going to throw a tantrum because people post more than 1 thing they don't want to see? Really? Is it that big of a deal? No, not to me.

Anyway, I don't want to see anything from 4e.......

I think we need to keep player choice a big thing, but make sure prestiege classes aren't super over powered. Even if some are slightly over powered then... whatever. It's better to have more things to do than to limit everything because you're afraid someone will get a class that gets a powerful ability. If you don't like it, simply don't allow it in game, but don't try and get them cut out completely. That's inane. D&D is about choice and freedom and being a badass and saving the world or whatever. Keep it that way. 
rolling massive amounts of d6's for any reason at all

i personally work around this by halving the number and changing them to d12's, but holy crap either rolling that many dice or converting to my system it's annoying either way


If it helps, I was introduced to multiplying dice when I played Robotech (missiles often did Xd6x10 damage).  Now, some people might find that approach too swingy as a single bad die roll has a much greater impact.  If that's the case, I'd suggest turning something like 8d6 into 2d6x4.  That cuts back on the implications of a single bad roll while also reducing the number of dice rolled.
There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Any monster description that takes up more than half of a page.
Okay, are we really going to throw a tantrum because people post more than 1 thing they don't want to see? Really? Is it that big of a deal? No, not to me.

Anyway, I don't want to see anything from 4e.......

You had me in the beginning, but that last part isn't terribly constructive.  DDN will want to fold the fans of 4e into the new edition also (more fans = more money after all).

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Any monster description that takes up more than half of a page.



nope sorry some monsters really do require in depth descriptions with various abilities, multiple variations, rules for PC's, and suggestions for role playing

types that come to mind; sentient hominid types with societies, outsiders with no out-of-game frame of reference for use, dragons
Okay, are we really going to throw a tantrum because people post more than 1 thing they don't want to see? Really? Is it that big of a deal? No, not to me.

Anyway, I don't want to see anything from 4e.......

You had me in the beginning, but that last part isn't terribly constructive.  DDN will want to fold the fans of 4e into the new edition also (more fans = more money after all).




Too true. Let me see.... I've only ever played 4th edition once. I simply hated the way they did abilities and spells. Where it was this one spell per encounter or this one spell per day. It really rained on my parade. They tried to make it seem as if you can only play certain classes certain ways, when that's simply not how it should be.

I want to be able to use my abilities as often as I want in any form that I see fit, but only if I have the resources to use them or I haven't exhausted myself. Telling me I can only use this ability once per encounter is stupid, or telling me I can't use this ability until I'm in an encounter is also stupid. That ruined the game for me. I want there to be complete total choice by the pc's of when and how they use their abilities. After all, that's what it's all about.

However, in 4e I LOVE static fixed xp. Please no more challenge rating spend half an hour calculating xp after a big fight with differing levels stuff. That's no fun. Fixed xp is a great way to streamline something that REALLY doesn't need to be so complicated.
@lawolf
Whatever I think of your opinions, you are the first and only person who can follow directions on this board.

Here is some help for the others.

The question is -->
  Name ONE thing you don't want to see from ANY edition

  That means just one thing.  Choose any edition to pick that one thing from.  The fact that it is limited is the point.  You have to pick the absolute worse thing you remember.


Sorry, Emerikol.  I was gonna follow that and all, but then you called people on it not once, but twice.  So now I'm going to post two things just for you.

Racial class and level restrictions. 

Excessive Imbalance 
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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Sorry, Emerikol.  I was gonna follow that and all, but then you called people on it not once, but twice.  So now I'm going to post two things just for you.

Racial class and level restrictions. 

Excessive Imbalance 



I would consider those to be just one, as the former is an aspect of the latter.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Hampered magic. (4th)

I want magic to be limited only by imagination. I want a huuuuuge spellbook for the casters and a huuuuuuge book of magic items for all.

The effects of those spells and magic items should not be limited by a balancing machine that only knows how to calculate the value of damage/To-Hit/push/pull/slide/daze/stun/skill effects, leading to spells and magic items that recognize only those factors.

The spells and effects should be written from a flavour view, and then be valued against other powers etc using a human touch to calculate level/worth.

Thus the game designer should think like this:

- "A really cool item would be "The slippers of shade"... They were created when a mad assassin poisoned her lover/partner with a cursed potion making his shadow break free of him and dragging him to the shadow plane. Little did she know though that part of him was never torn away and remained in his slippers. When the mad assassin woke up the next morning and put on the slippers, her lover took his revenge and plunged her through a window where she fell to her death. Rumours has it that a beggar stole her slippers and ran away with them and that the slippers have helped and killed many a wielder since then."
- Effect: A character who wields the slippers when attempting to kill someone will enjoy the benefits of the formers assassins protection, allowing the character to stretch shadows to cover him. If there is any shadow within 50', the character will always be considered concealed for the purpose of hiding when attempting to sneak up for a kill.
If the character wielding the slippers ever betrays someone who trusts him, the slippers will become cursed and irremovable until a remove curse is used. While wearing a pair of cursed slippers, a character can never find concealment, and should the character move within 30' of a ledge, it must roll a saving throw or be carried over the edge.

Then, someone would start figuring approximately how much such an item would be worth compared to others... i.e. level X?



My one point I would make: this is not an item or an idea for blossoming, new DMs.  This is the kind of item idea for veteran players.  I say this as a new DM and player that would generally hate such items being "core".  I don't mind the idea of, within the 4th edition purview, this kind of item exisiting in the Unearthed Arcana articles.  In DDN, I'd not want this kind of item in default mode.  Hell, even not in Default mode, this immediatly makes me think of Artifacts from 4th edition.

Perhaps that's really what old ed people want?  All items as either important, plot heavy items like an artifact, steeped in history, having a will and mind of it's own?  I mean, I can see the allure of an Artifact of this kind.  Attacking or betraying an ally lowers the concordance, and bestows not only the listed penalties, but makes an attack against Will defense if the PC gets within 6 squares, and a hit shifts the PC 7 quares in the direction of the ledge.  Hell, a miss could still shift the PC 3 squares, and the attack is made each round (or every few seconds) unless the PC can move farther than 6 squares (i.e. 30 feet) away from the ledge.  That sounds like a dangerous, interesting Artifact.

It sounds like a terrible magical item.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
Anywhere that imbalance was placed over balance in the name of "fun" or "cool".
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
rolling massive amounts of d6's for any reason at all

i personally work around this by halving the number and changing them to d12's, but holy crap either rolling that many dice or converting to my system it's annoying either way



Anywhere that imbalance was placed over balance in the name of "fun" or "cool".


Would find it hard to disagree more with either of these.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Massive imbalance, especially because of unfounded assumptions about how my group plays.

I can deal with a system that has parity but no symmetry.  I prefer symmetry, or at least a chunk of it, but I can deal with it as long as the asymmetric options are reasonably balanced across days of any length.  If the system doesn't have parity, I'll walk, because I am too good at systems lacking parity to find them any kind of satisfying challenge anymore.
I don't want to see Eladrin as High Elves but as their own race of powerful beings as was brought to us by Planescape, the sort of being too powerful to be a pc unless u had a very understanding/mad dungeon masterr who knew you could reign in the power till no-one was looking, if someone saw a display of power you could not justify then you had broken the veil and u suffered the concequences
@lawolf
Whatever I think of your opinions, you are the first and only person who can follow directions on this board.


Hey now, I was the 8th poster in this thread and I limited myself to only ONE thing.  :P
I don't want to see a linear class system, including a multi-class version, or duel or whatever else out there.
rolling massive amounts of d6's for any reason at all

i personally work around this by halving the number and changing them to d12's, but holy crap either rolling that many dice or converting to my system it's annoying either way



That's why I love playing rogues. I love that handful of dice. It is also why I like dice pool systems.

One thing I don't want to see is bad design under the excuse of good flavor (4e Shade, Binder, and most of the other stuff in Heroes of Shadow). I want good design and good flavor. 
3rd edition: Whatever happened to playtesting? I don't think any game I have ever played ever got this insanely disfunctional. The game is simply unplayable at higher levels.

4th edition: No avant-gardiste game designers that think they can redefine D&D. D&D is dwarves, elves, humans, halflings and gnomes. It's fighters, clerics, rogues/thieves, and wizards (and a few more). It's 9 cheesy alignments. It's a list of spells with familiar names, familiar effects, and familiar ways to use them. It's fast-paced cinematic combats and not a game of chess. D&D is to RPG what a blockbuster is to Hollywood, not an independant movie. Don't try to make it original!