Battlemind polearm momentum MAD HELP?

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
So I'm playing a homebrew heroic tier campaign. It's themed fairly specifically. The only race allowed is humans, only classes are psionic or martial powered, and attacks that let me cause combat advantage, push, pull, slide, or knock prone are more highly powered (extra damage, debuffs). I don't want to rely on items. We should level fairly quickly to 5, and it may go into paragon.

With all that in mind I decided to build this character, since it is Con based (also a plus in this campaign), pushes and will qualify for PM at 4th.


Shishio Murase, level 2
Human, Battlemind
Psionic Study Option: Wild Focus
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Sage (+2 to Arcana)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 18, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 11

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 14, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 11


AC: 18 Fort: 16 Ref: 14 Will: 16
HP: 39 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Endurance +10, Heal +8, Insight +8, Streetwise +6

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Athletics +1, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +3, History +0, Intimidate +1, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +0, Stealth +3, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Battlemind Feature: Battlemind's Demand
Battlemind Feature: Blurred Step
Battlemind Feature: Mind Spike
Battlemind Feature: Wild Focus
Battlemind Attack 1: Bull's Strength
Battlemind Attack 1: Conductive Defense
Battlemind Attack 1: Aspect of Elevated Harmony
Battlemind Utility 2: Telepathic Challenge

FEATS
Level 1: Wrathful Warrior
Level 1: Telekinetic Savant
Level 2: Heavy Blade Expertise

ITEMS
Glaive x1
Scale Armor x1


However, I'm finding that to qualify for feats that I want or need (and given that I can't rely on Rushing Cleats to help me out) I will suffer from acute MAD.  PM requires 15 in Dex and Wis, Con is primary, Str needs to be 15 for Heavy Blade Opportunity (key to later stickiness as a defender), and meanwhile Cha is forlornly trying to hold up my class feature and a lot of handy kickers (such as Visions of Terror). SO! Do I:

-Give over on the Battlemind and make a Fighter? I don't necessarily feel that this solves my problem, as I would still want a solid Con and Str.

-Give over on the Wild Focus feature, instead trying to focus my PM needs on Visions of Terror and freeing up a feat (though not solving my MAD problems).

-Entirely give up on Charisma and put points into Str and Con at every level, enabling me to take Heavy Blade Opportunity but ignoring all Cha related class features?

-Ignore Heavy Blade Opportunity and Plate Proficiency and put points into Cha?

-Build the character in a totally different way I haven't thought of?

SAVE ME, CHAR-OP FORUM! 


 
Check my sig for my build. Might give you ideas.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I liked your build, but alas Dragonmarks arent going to fly either. Having a race other than human would largely solve my ability score issues, as I could then spare a few points to throw into Str or Cha and figure that by level 8 or 12 I'd be all set. Thanks though! 
Change your Psionic Study option to Persistent Harrier, it's largely better than than Wild Focus and doesn't require Charisma.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
I second the focus switch. And going PM with your setup, you should probably dump HBO hopes. This leaves you only needing your Con primary with Dex and Wis.
Otherwise, what you really risk is sinking your NADs by trying to have two mid-high stats in each grouping, preventing you from getting the most into your defenses as a defender.

Also, based on the setting you described, char name, and the decent synergy it has with Battleminds, I suggest picking up the samuria theme. Start every battle already in melee!
The reason I went with wild focus was to get Telekinetic Savant (+1 to pushes and slides) so as to be able to activate PM. Otherwise I think I'd have to go with a shield and trident or something to that effect and use Battering Shield. 
Hi mesaknight,

I got your message.  I have to say the campaign you're playing sounds like a lot of fun and I wish I could join.    I'd be happy to give advice.

So let's go over each of your stats in turn and analyze which are important in the build at this time and why.  We know we need to cull multiple stats, but this may help us determine which ones.

Strength: The only reason we care about this stat is Heavy Blade Opportuntiy, which allows us to use unaugmented at-wills as OAs.  This is presumably to push targets and knock them prone, but we could potentially get the same effect with swift spear or another similar feat (too bad forceful opportunist is not available except to a hybrid).  Unless there's another reason for needing strength, this is an easy one to dump.

Constitution: This is your primary stat.  As high as we can afford.

Dexterity: Mandatory 15, but beyond that we're not all that concerned unless we make this our secondary stat.  I don't remember how much dex battleminds can make use of, but it's not terribly common.

Intelligence: Tragically (or fortunately?) Battleminds don't care about book smarts.  This is a very viable dump stat.

Wisdom: Mandatory 15, but beyond that we're not all that concerned unless we make this our secondary stat.  Battleminds DO have a very direct use for this stat, especially in Heroic tier (which appears to be the primary area of this campaign).  If you don't take Wild Focus, Battle Resilience is a great second choice in this build.  But the Iron Fist at-will is a great power that doesn't care which focus you take -- and you already have a +2 in your wisdom mod.

Charisma: So there's two reasons to consider having some charisma.  First of all, it's a secondary battlemind stat that benefits a number of powers.  However, we're already invested into the other options (wisdom and dexterity), so we'd like to avoid also trying to support Cha.  The second reason is we're already taking Wild Focus to increase forced movement distance.  Now this is noteworthy because it means we can avoid relying on Battering Shield, which has limitations (i.e. melee only, so no close attacks benefit).
Wild Focus thus gives us quite the benefit for PM's purposes, but how useful will it be without any Charisma?  Actually, pretty useful.  It turns out we don't necessarily need much Charisma -- even if it's at 8, we got the benefit that was most exciting to us and we're not terribly pained by the loss so long as we pick our powers carefully.


So now that we've done some analysis, here are some options.  And if I'm missing something, please tell me -- these are just recommendations based on what I can see at this time.  They're definitely not your only options.

1) Dump everything above that you don't need, and use Battering Shield.  You'll only trigger PM on melee attacks and any burst/blast attacks that already push/slide 2, but this is a very easy, non-MAD option.  Choose Battle Resilience and Iron Fist, with Wisdom as your secondary, to buff your defenses and play the defender role voraciously.
Str 8, Con 16+2, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 11
PM by level 4 (earliest we can reasonably do as a human)

2) Hold onto Wild Focus, but don't bother putting any points into Cha.  We're making a mild sacrifice to gain a big benefit: +1 to all forced movement in a forced movement build, in a campaign that greatly rewards such things.  Keep wisdom as your secondary stat and probably pick Iron Fist as an at-will.  A Halberd is a great choice, as is a Trident+Heavy Shield.  If you can afford the feat later, upgrading to a great spear is a nice choice.
Str 11, Con 16+2, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8

3) Be a fighter with Battering Shield.  This does not necessarily solve our MAD issues, as we still have Dex & Wis at 15 and Strength is our primary.  But now we don't have points for Con, which you mentioned is important in your campaign.  You do gain access to Forceful Opportunist, Shield Push, and other neat stuff that could be very handy, but you would be largely dumping Con to get them.  Fighters also have Combat Superiority, which enjoys having good Wisdom.
Str 16+2, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8
PM by level 4

4) This one takes your build in a very different direction.  Dump PM, choose Flails instead.  The key feat here is Flail Expertise, which knocks a target prone whenever you would slide it (instead of sliding it).  Dragging flail gives you your slide back.  Should the campaing go into paragon, you can take lashing flail to also prone on charges and OAs.
Pros: Minimum or no stat requirements.  Dragging flail is optional and requires Dex 15.  That's it.  MAD issues go away.  You also don't care about slide distance, so a slide 1 is just as good as a slide 2.  Also perfectly happy in either a Battlemind and a Fighter build, so you have options.  Last of all, a human can have the combo out at level 1, proning right out of the door; PM is level 4 at the earliest.
Cons: Melee ONLY.  You cannot slide on a close burst/blast or ranged/area attack, which both fighters and battleminds (among other classes) will dislike.  You cannot, for example, prone in a close blast 3 with an augmented Bull's Strength.  The flail build also cares nothing for pushes, only slides, so Bull's Strength doesn't work anyway.  Since you can't take Mark of Storm with a lightning weapon in this campaign, this will limit your power choices a lot.
For a forced movement + prone build, flails are extremely easy to get going.  However, they're also more limited.


Feats:
I recommend taking your Expertise feat at level 1, since you're likely using a +2 weapon and starting with only 18 in your primary stat.  Then take feats in the order in which they're most valuable.  By level 4 you have 4 feats as a human, of which 3 are spoken for (multiclass fighter, polearm momentum, and an expertise feat).  The 4th feat (at level 2) should probably be Telekinetic savant or Battering Shield since that's critical to making the combo happen.  And if you need to, you can retrain a feat at level 4 to bring 2 feats in at once.

Powers:
You definitely want a power that pushes or slides to trigger PM at-will.  Examples include Bull's Strength, Wrenching Claw, Footwork Lure, and Tide of Iron.  Your other 1 (or 2) at-wills can either be a different way to push/slide (something that is tactically different from the first), defensive abilities (like Iron Fist), or anything else that will be really useful when the other option(s) are not the best choice.

If you have Battering Shield instead of Telekinetic Savant, you obviously don't care much for close burst/blast powers.  Focus on pushing/sliding melee powers, as well as powers that will get you out of tight spots or allow you to position yourself better.


I hope this helps you out!
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Building off of what Wazat said (very good points), I would suggest the following:
-If you care about riders, switch focus. If the extra push is more important than riders, keep focus but dump Cha and stay focused on Wis.
-Start as a flail user with expertise so you can establish your basic battle style right from day 1. Go ahead and keep your stats inline for the 15 Dex and Wis so that later on you can retrain your expertise and swap to PM. Personally, I recommend spear and shield for battering shield and swift spear, but you might want to go greatspear for something with reach.

This gives you the early and easy access to the schtick while keeping open the option for the more flexible PM style later on once the rest of the parts get in place.
I like the idea of starting with flail, then advancing to PM around level 4-ish so you can prone with pushes and close attacks.

Str 8, Con 16+2, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 11
All stat bumps go onto Con and Wis.

Feats
1: Flail Expertise
Human: Dragging Flail

2: Wrathful Warrior

3: Telekinetic Savant
Retrain Dragging Flail to Great Spear Proficiency

4: Polearm Momentum
Retrain Flail Expertise to Polearm/Spear Expertise


Edit: By the way, the reason I recommend dumping Heavy Blade Opportunity is because you're crunched for time.  PM+HBO battleminds tend to wait until Paragon before they start proning, simply because it's the only way to get their stats to work.  They also tend to not be human because they need the extra +2 to either wisdom or dex.  It pays off nicely in Paragon, but your campaign may not even last past Heroic (and even if it does, that's a long wait to spend playing a character that hasn't bloomed yet).
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
That's a huge help, thanks!
I would actually recommend grabbing Wrathful Warrior over Dragging Flail at level 1, so you can get the combo working at 4 rather than 6.  The rest of the progression just moves 1 slot forward.   

Not to mention Dragging Flail actually requires Wrathful Warrior. ;)


Also, i don't want to be a killjoy because i love prone builds, but Flail Expertise requires a slide, which, sadly, you don't do. 
Teracide: Thanks for the correction on dragging flail.

Yea, it looks like he can start sliding with battlemind at-wills by level 3 with Wrenching Claw (and there don't appear to be augments/dailies any sooner).  That means there's not such a rush to get the flail-prone combo out so early, since it can't be used during levels 1 and 2 anyway.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
And by the time you hit that level you might as well wait one more level to just get PM going without weird weapon swapping shenanigans, unless you like that, of course. ;)
On a completely different approach, (and a bit of a thread necro) you could make an arena fighter.  Grab the trident and a mace/hammer as your arena weapons, then you could go with 18str, 15dex, 14wis post-racial and Bludgeon Expertise and Shield Push as your first feats.  You'll still only get PM on your first stat bump (level 4) but until then you'll be a pretty reliable pinball bumper, pushing or sliding 2 on everything.

You'll want to grab Swift Spear as your 2nd level feat to be even more annoying, then str/wis bump at 4 and grab PM.


This does require some creative rules interpretations though, and you'll be limited to one-handed polearms because of Shield Push, but you can change that later if you want by retraining.