03/28/2012 BoaB: "From the Grave"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Faithless Looting is a card red has needed since Wheel was dragged out back and shot.
Faithless Looting is a card red has needed since Wheel was dragged out back and shot.

lol!

I'm a fan of both cards, and I think they fit well in red.

This deck looks like fun, but perhaps needs smallpox if it suffers against creature strategies (and smpx would be way better without vivid lands really).  Rise/fall should really go, it's the weakest card against aggro, which is the hardest matchup it seems.  Other than that, I dunno.  Nyxathid seems good, wee all know Tarmgoyf is nuts.  Maybe cut Shriekmaw for doom blade/go for the thorat if rise/fall is getting cut, since you have almost no instants and instants are important for sneaking spells by control players.  Also,  Distress should maybe be  mind wrench depending on the dominance of tempered steel against your deck and in your metagame. Wrench is a pauper staple because 2 mana discard 2 cards is crazy.

Also, why no sideboarding?  I noticed you haven't done it other times in the past too.  It's quite important really, critical to the game play at tournaments.  Not sure about the numbers but I think at FNM people play more sideboarded games than non-sideboarded.  I just think your column would be more interesting to read if it had the sideboarding aspect really.
Please discuss this deck again next week and go into more depth on matchups, sideboarding, budget/non-budget alternatives for cards and general playstyle. I found this deck to be very interesting and I would like to see more of it, not some random other new deck.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Please discuss this deck again next week and go into more depth on matchups, sideboarding, budget/non-budget alternatives for cards and general playstyle. I found this deck to be very interesting and I would like to see more of it, not some random other new deck.


i totally agree
i would like to see much more of this deck in terms of matches, sideboarding, alternatives, and also i did like see why the reanimation version wasnt working in some matches.

anyway the decks looks like a lot fun to play. 

Distress is a nice budget Thoughtseize replacement. I would play four copies of Thoughtseize if it wasn't so hard to acquire, but the current split of discard still plays very well.


Duress and Despise round out the deck's targeted discard. It's important that you fire off one of these before your opponent gets to turn three.



Buh? At least one of those needs to be Inquisition of Kozilek. With the exception of Karn, generally the cards being cast before turn 3 cost less than 3 mana thus making Inquisition a good choice. In fact, I've noticed many players opting for Inquisition over Thoughtseize when they had the option to play either, because fetch, crack, take two, Thoughseize you, feels bad. You just lava-axed yourself. Unless they are a combo deck with imminent ability to win, the life loss from Thoughtseize is relevant in Modern.

And the converted mana cost restriction of Inquisition is less relevant.

And as long as you're juicing up the mana with vivids, how about Castigate over Distress? Modern doesn't contain as many broken graveyard strategies as Legacy, but with Lingering Souls, Snapcaster Mage, Gifts Ungiven (and its partner in crime Unburial Rites), Proclamation of Rebirth, Reveillark, and so on, it's a vertiable Extra Value Menu of card advantage. Shutting that off is nice.
Nice deck!
I would also like to see an evolution, or more matchups/sideboarding next week! More matchups would help us see the value of the Faithless looting, that in these two examples you do not seem to (ab)use so much.

I wonder how easy is casting a first turn discard spells with so many CIPT lands? Dropping some in favor of more swamps seems like an idea to test...

I also second the Inquisition of K. over Distress seeing how most of the time you make someone discard a <4 cmc card.



 
Very interesting deck! I see JVL is staying much more budget than previous Modern decks. Please do more matchups, variations, weaknesses/strenghts of this deck next week! I would like to see several weeks devoted to one, developed deck, than a random, underdeveloped deck every week.
This is a super awesome deck. I have also loved the Specter since day 1, but never had any fuzzy feelings for Faithless Looting before now. It's such an elegant synergy with all the discard and unearth and everything else... I would love to see you keep this deck around and highlight it some more.
I wonder about maybe Raven's Crime in this deck.  Is that a viable option, since it's playable from the graveyard?
I wonder about maybe Raven's Crime in this deck.  Is that a viable option, since it's playable from the graveyard?


i was wondering the same thing, then i thought: land discard is bad cost for this deck, and it cannot target specific cards.
Maybe i'm wrong though, hope to see it next week
I really liked this article. A different deck, an archetype casual always liked(discard), most cards are budget, even the mana base. Nice one for JVL.

Some suggestions: The matches. No need for then. If you already did all the building and testing, and told us about it, there is no need to show us the two good matchups. The win counter is just sad when you play 2 games, get rid of it, or play more. If you really want to post match reviews, post the more difficult machups, or at least the tricky ones. Just some rundowns of the different decks and how you do against then is better then 2 short play-by-play accounts.

That or tell us how was the testing and how it affected the deck.
I wonder about maybe Raven's Crime in this deck.  Is that a viable option, since it's playable from the graveyard?


i was wondering the same thing, then i thought: land discard is bad cost for this deck, and it cannot target specific cards.
Maybe i'm wrong though, hope to see it next week



A singleton Raven's Crime would be nice. Maybe you could cut the vivid lands for 3-4 more Ravnica bounce lands, and partner them with Gemstone Mine + Tendo Ice Bridge. The bounce lands aren't really slower than the Vivids, and you get the option to return a land and retrace the crime. On top of that, the bounce lands make it seem like you're running more lands than you really are, which isn't a bad thing since you probably want to hit 5 mana so you can flashback a looting and then play a spell on the same turn.

Also, Despise/Distress are lame. Inquisition's costs more money, but the $10 to get 2-3 is probably worth it, and this is actually a pretty budget friendly list. Except for the Damnations, and Slagstorm or Volcanic Fallout are ok replacements (and probably better vs. Affinity anyway).

I retract my earlier statements. This is a very good deck and I need a quick cheap modern deck right now. Thanks so much!
I was worried when I saw Faithless Looting as the build around card. Having seen many Standard decks using it, I expected something eerily similar. That worry was quickly doused with this great deck idea. I agree with the previous posters. Please write a follow up to this deck!

(If you can't next week because of the Helvault theme, the following week works too). 

I think one of the main reasons that this deck is weak against aggro, is the lands. The ETB tapped slows down your options. Not sure what cheap options are there to fix that though.

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred: Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature. Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself? Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill. Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it. Him: You can't do that. Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

Yeah, it sucks that the best lands are always rare.  It's actually what stops me from playing in competitive standard formats: prohibitive cost, and a lot of times it comes down to the mana base.  Not that I couldn't play a mono-color depending on the format, just I like to have the option of variety.
I have been a critique of JvL in the past, but this weeks column is a very nice one. Keep up the good work.

I second the cry for an evolution of the deck. Some people make some nice suggestions in their posts. Maybe JvL could use those suggestions and build a column around it.
Rather decent deck today, both reasonably budget and "not just another Delver deck."

I have to support the calls for better matchups. Not really a fan of seeing just one really good match apiece with two decks extra vulnerable to the strategy and then being told that an archtype for the most part autowins against the deck. Clearly there's more playtest games I'd like to see.
Deck blog: http://alurenrecycle.blogspot.com/ http://gureiseion.tumblr.com/
First I must say I approve greatly of Sedraxis Specter, the Blightning on Wheels, and of Rise//Fall. That said, Castigate is better against Obstinate Baloth out of Jund, bounce-lands like Carnarium are nefariously weak to LD, and if you're running 'em you might as well run 4 Tendo Ice Bridge rather than slow down your curve with Vivids. Alara Tri-Lands mighg perhaps be more hepful. I'm also surprised by the lack of basic Mountain and Island in the manabase. In that scenario you're likely to get screwed by Path or Ghost Quarter.
Better discard options than Distress: Inquisition of Kozilek, Blackmail.
Faster options for mana in this apparently 5-color deck: City of Brass.
Cheap one-sided graveyard hate that will steal you matches against decks like Living End: Faerie Macabre. They're playing it, why shouldn't you?
Better utility blocker: Reassembling Skeleton vs Augur of Skulls.
Duress is gold, keep it in. Despise is iffy, it's one of the first cards I'll side out. Consider Gitaxian Probe because it digs, gives you information, and lets you choose whether turn one Duress or Inquisition is better. I'm also slightly sketchy about Rotting Rats, but this deck probably likes to discard lands. I wonder how this deck interacts with Liliana of the Veil decks, particularly Aggro Loam.