Next on the chopping block for Modern should be...

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Even though I'm very pessimistic about the response I'll receive, I thought I'd post my thoughts on what cards I feel need to be banned in the Modern format.

-Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: The argument of "it's 15 mana" doesn't work for me. When this guy comes out, he ends the game. That's what he does. I have never seen any deck win against another deck that could reliably cast Emrakul. Urzatron players who utilize Gifts Ungiven (a strong card that borders on absolutely broken) can find three Eldrazi on your end step. No matter which you choose to put in the graveyard, that player will either draw four cards, destroy a permanent or take an extra turn. The Eldrazi tribe is by far the most poorly designed tribe in magic, and Emrakul is the worst offender of the lot. Banning him in Modern doesn't take away from Urzatron's strength, but it does allow other players the option of interacting with the deck by using Path to Exile.

-Cranial Plating: Would it be fair to say that artifact affinity falls on its face without Cranial Plating? It sure has felt that way to me in the matchups I've played. This single card- printed as a common- is so dangerous that causes a disproportionate game swing within the first two or three turns. Creature removal doesn't help, and targeted artifact removal like Harmonic Sliver will only get you so far because the deck will just play another one. There are answers, of course (ie, Kataki, War's Wage) but this means you have to mulligan aggressively to find two lands (one white) and Kataki just to have a chance at winning the match.  Clearly, Cranial Plating is far stronger than it ought to be and banning this allows decks of all types a chance to interact with an artfiact-heavy deck, instead of losing very early.

-Tarmogoyf: Is he a vanilla creature? Sure, but at two mana, he can be a 5/6 or a 6/7. That's far too strong for his mana cost. He is clearly a broken card and a design mistake. Today in standard, if you get a 5/5 for 4 mana, that's really pushing the envelope. Tarmogoyf not only pushed the envelope, he destroyed it. He forces players to have lots of removal, which they may or may not choose to do. Coupled with Dark Confidant, he becomes extremely strong. He forces chump blocking, causing a disproportionate creature advantage. Zoo decks are strong without him (see Knight of the Reliquary) but they become ridiculously strong with Tarmogoyf. He is not the only option out there, he is simply the best one all around. Playing with him and playing against him, I got the same sense I had with Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Inexplicably, as long as that card was in play, I knew the player who used it was going to win.

None of the deck archetypes which utilize these cards prove themselves to be unbeatable, but all of these cards are far too powerful for what they do, and I believe they should all be banned.
-Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: The argument of "it's 15 mana" doesn't work for me. When this guy comes out, he ends the game. That's what he does. I have never seen any deck win against another deck that could reliably cast Emrakul. Urzatron players who utilize Gifts Ungiven (a strong card that borders on absolutely broken) can find three Eldrazi on your end step. No matter which you choose to put in the graveyard, that player will either draw four cards, destroy a permanent or take an extra turn. The Eldrazi tribe is by far the most poorly designed tribe in magic, and Emrakul is the worst offender of the lot. Banning him in Modern doesn't take away from Urzatron's strength, but it does allow other players the option of interacting with the deck by using Path to Exile.


I would like to say many awful things to you about the rest of your selection, but this I can agree with you on.

There is only one word to describe Emrakul. Many cards are "overpowered". Many cards are simply "strong" or maybe "too strong". Emrakul is strong, but more importantly... Emrakul is boring. Any time it's cast, it is very much so gg. There's no buildup. There's no daring escapes. It's game. There's ways to stop it of course, if you're prepared, but there's also ways to beat Dredge. It doesn't stop either from being absolutely Goldfish level boring. Both to play against and with.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


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92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO

Weird, so far this PTQ season in the UK, a different deck each week has won, Bant, Caw Blade, 5 colour Gifts Rock, UW Tron(with no emrakul), UB Delver.

From that list, I guess island should be banned :|

Emrakul is good, but the only tron deck to have succeeded in the UK didn't run it. The only deck that casts Emrakul is Tron, and they lose hard to quite a few decks. Do I like Emrakul? no, it's poorly designed, is it too powerful to be legal? No.

Gifts Ungiven has a much better chance of being banned because it allows you to do the most broken things, tutoring fatties into play, or finding game over gifts packages. Do I think Gifts needs banning? Probably not.

Cranial Plating? Jund smashes affinity all the time, as does loam. Caw-blade and delver decks can beat affinity too, so it's hardly an amazing deck.

Goyf? Out of the three best green decks, two of them run goyf, and neither of them depend that much on it. Goyf is only just good enough in legacy thesedays, since decks like Maverick don't run him etc. He sees play in one or two good legacy decks(RUG and BUG), but he's often not good enough, so he really should be the right power level for modern. 90% of decks would rather see a goyf hit the table on the other side than a Thalia.

I think it's a case of people not wanting to fork out money for good decks or not playing in a competitive enough environemtn to evaluate cards properly.
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Oh God.  It's witchhunters like you who want everything you've ever lost to banned that screw up formats.  If everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered, and if you want to ban out 3 decks, then you're practically saying that everything is overpowered.

Also, Niche, why does goyf see so little play?  This format has fetches and every good discard spell other than hymn and therapy.  If KOTR (the other gigantic beatstick) can see play at 3 cmc, why can't goyf at 2?



I just want to do away with cards that are insanely more powerful than all others. Modern as a format is very diverse and removing even one of these cards from the format won't change that.
Oh God.  It's witchhunters like you who want everything you've ever lost to banned that screw up formats.  If everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered, and if you want to ban out 3 decks, then you're practically saying that everything is overpowered.

Also, Niche, why does goyf see so little play?  This format has fetches and every good discard spell other than hymn and therapy.  If KOTR (the other gigantic beatstick) can see play at 3 cmc, why can't goyf at 2?



I just want to do away with cards that are insanely more powerful than all others. Modern as a format is very diverse and removing even one of these cards from the format won't change that.



It's diverse BECAUSE of cards like Emrakul, Goyf, and Cranial Plating. If you start banning these non-format breaking cards, where does it end? Suddenly you have a decidedly non-diverse format because there's no splashy plays left. Slippery slope.
Oh God.  It's witchhunters like you who want everything you've ever lost to banned that screw up formats.  If everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered, and if you want to ban out 3 decks, then you're practically saying that everything is overpowered.

Also, Niche, why does goyf see so little play?  This format has fetches and every good discard spell other than hymn and therapy.  If KOTR (the other gigantic beatstick) can see play at 3 cmc, why can't goyf at 2?



I just want to do away with cards that are insanely more powerful than all others. Modern as a format is very diverse and removing even one of these cards from the format won't change that.



It's diverse BECAUSE of cards like Emrakul, Goyf, and Cranial Plating. If you start banning these non-format breaking cards, where does it end? Suddenly you have a decidedly non-diverse format because there's no splashy plays left. Slippery slope.



Please explain to me how having a 15/15 can't be countered, sac six permanents, take an extra turn, protection from colored spells creature is good for ANY metagame? I have yet to observe Emrakul as anything other than abusive and broken. Cards are not supposed to be designed like this.

As far as Tarmogoy and Plating, if you think they're fine for the format, that's okay. I don't agree, but fortunately for us the decision to ban cards isn't mine.
None of these should be banned!!!  I have had this argument too many times on other forums to want to expand much here, but people need to cowboy up and learn to deal with troubling cards in game.  I am sick to death of Emmy, and Affinity, but being sick of them is not a reason to ban them.  Instead of running to mommy every time a powerful card pukes in your kool-aid (oh yea!) players need to rally and find a solution using the cards available.  That is what makes a format and a player better in the long run, but so many of the last few bans have been enabling the players that don't want to have to deal with bullies.  You will never become a better player by whining for cards to be banned, but you will become a better player by beating decks that use these cards.

Removing scary cards will not improve the format, and some cards will always be better than other cards.  To be honest I think that Anniahilator is a totally broken mechanic, but I think Cascade, Storm, and Affinity are too.  If I could go back in time I would go back and warn the designers of the damage that would ensue, and cause these mechanics to not be printed as they are, but I cannot find the right meter to make sure I get 1.1 jigawats of energy.  Since I cannot, they continue to exist and continue to be broken in their very souls, but the cards they are printed on are not actually damaging to Modern, so I cannot in good concious call for their ban.

Please explain to me how having a 15/15 can't be countered, sac six permanents, take an extra turn, protection from colored spells creature is good for ANY metagame? I have yet to observe Emrakul as anything other than abusive and broken. Cards are not supposed to be designed like this.


To reward people who can consistently get 15 mana before you kill them, or jump through some unusual hoops to cast it another way (not put it straight into play).  If you're letting someone get to that point, the game is over no matter what they're spending 15 on.  Off the top of my head, Banefire for the same cost wouldn't put you in any better position.

Please explain to me how having a 15/15 can't be countered, sac six permanents, take an extra turn, protection from colored spells creature is good for ANY metagame? I have yet to observe Emrakul as anything other than abusive and broken. Cards are not supposed to be designed like this.


To reward people who can consistently get 15 mana before you kill them, or jump through some unusual hoops to cast it another way (not put it straight into play).  If you're letting someone get to that point, the game is over no matter what they're spending 15 on.  Off the top of my head, Banefire for the same cost wouldn't put you in any better position.



There are more ways out against Banefire, aren't there? You can get Venser (the creature), you can prevent the damage, or you can get Gaddock Teeg before they do that. I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack. He resolves- guaranteed- and whatever you're doing after that doesn't matter. The game is over. In what universe should a card that reads, "the game is over" be legal in any format?
I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack.


You just named one.  Venser bounces him from the stack or battlefield. 
Executioner's Capsule can kill him, Gideon's Lawkeeper and Ensnaring Bridge can prevent him from ever attacking, Oblivion Ring can remove him. 

And no, you can't prevent the damage on a Banefire.
I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack.


You just named one.  Venser bounces him from the stack or battlefield. 
Executioner's Capsule can kill him, Gideon's Lawkeeper and Ensnaring Bridge


I play all of these. erryday.

Oblivion Ring can remove him.


Not if he's hardcasted.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
Someone come to the deck help section and help me with Ghost Dad and Death Cloud. Two top threads.

Also, let's not ban anything. Criminy the format is fairly healthy! 

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Someone come to the deck help section and help me with Ghost Dad and Death Cloud. Two top threads.


But that would be productiiiiive... Gosh...

p.s. I plan on posting a Big Red/u list later on. MtG Sally continues to be lame and minds for hire seem to be lacking in Modern.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
Please explain to me how having a 15/15 can't be countered, sac six permanents, take an extra turn, protection from colored spells creature is good for ANY metagame? I have yet to observe Emrakul as anything other than abusive and broken. Cards are not supposed to be designed like this.

As far as Tarmogoy and Plating, if you think they're fine for the format, that's okay. I don't agree, but fortunately for us the decision to ban cards isn't mine. 

--

There are more ways out against Banefire, aren't there? You can get Venser (the creature), you can prevent the damage, or you can get Gaddock Teeg before they do that. I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack. He resolves- guaranteed- and whatever you're doing after that doesn't matter. The game is over. In what universe should a card that reads, "the game is over" be legal in any format?



Commandeer. Now you have an Emrakul.

Memoricide naming Emrakul. Nevermore naming Emrakul.

Also, regarding "the game is over" cards...

Coalition Victory, Laboratory Maniac... all legal.

Just sayin'. Which tournament has Emrakul taken by storm recently, again? 
Commandeer. Now you have an Emrakul.

Memoricide naming Emrakul. Nevermore naming Emrakul.

Also, regarding "the game is over" cards...

Coalition Victory, Laboratory Maniac... all legal.

Just sayin'. Which tournament has Emrakul taken by storm recently, again? 


I would never even remotely consider touching any of these decks in a competitive fashion as I am a staunch opposition to Meddling Mage effects.

Crap-Tier-Casual? Yes. Competitive? No.

Emrakul is boring. It doesn't need to TAKE EVERYTHING BY STORM OH GOSH for it to be boring and unhealthy. Except for Geth's Verdict (can't say I've ever seen it though) and a few other bulk rares, there is relatively no competitive way to deal with a cast Emrakul. And God forbid if they already have an Eye of Ugin in play...
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
Commandeer. Now you have an Emrakul.

Memoricide naming Emrakul. Nevermore naming Emrakul.

Also, regarding "the game is over" cards...

Coalition Victory, Laboratory Maniac... all legal.

Just sayin'. Which tournament has Emrakul taken by storm recently, again? 


I would never even remotely consider touching any of these decks in a competitive fashion as I am a staunch opposition to Meddling Mage effects.

Crap-Tier-Casual? Yes. Competitive? No.

Emrakul is boring. It doesn't need to TAKE EVERYTHING BY STORM OH GOSH for it to be boring and unhealthy. Except for Geth's Verdict (can't say I've ever seen it though) and a few other bulk rares, there is relatively no competitive way to deal with a cast Emrakul. And God forbid if they already have an Eye of Ugin in play...

[citation needed] on "unhealthy". It very much does need to "TAKE EVERYTHING BY STORM OH GOSH" to be unhealthy. You know what else is boring? Silence on Isochron Scepter. Should we ban that? How about turbo-fog? Mind-slaver lock? How about mono-blue permission? If it's not breaking the format, how is it in any way unhealthy? It's not restricting the meta at all. QQ moar.
Silence Stick can be taken out once it's in play and can be disrupted before it even hits the field. Same with turbo-fog. Same with Slaver Lock. Same with any permission deck in the history of Magic. All with conventional means. If you want a better example, I'm happy to give one to you. Dredge. Unfortunately, due to Vintage being Vintage, it's relatively impossible to solve this issue.

If you aren't prepared for Emrakul, some builds can evade conventional means. Once Emrakul hits play, you either have to be the topdeck master of the century or lose. 
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
Everyone in Modern should be running Land destruction and Graveyard disruption, which handle Emmy reemptivly, If not you are probably in for some trouble with many of the common decks.  You claim the Meddling Mage effects are casual cards, but they are universal hate and do take care of a lot of trouble cards, so what about them is Casual?
Everyone in Modern should be running Land destruction and Graveyard disruption, which handle Emmy reemptivly, If not you are probably in for some trouble with many of the common decks.  You claim the Meddling Mage effects are casual cards, but they are universal hate and do take care of a lot of trouble cards, so what about them is Casual?


There is no prerequisite for decks in Modern to automatically run land destruction. Any graveyard disruption in relation to Emrakul requires that Emrakul already be in the graveyard.

As far as Meddling Mage, there's a reason it's 1 USD according to MOTL. Same with Nevermore being at .3 USD. They are gambling, non-variable, disruption that can often times be simply evaded. They are in fact not card advantage. They are no specific hate to any deck or card except for Emrakul or Greater Gargadon. You should not have to take up four spots in your sideboard for a single card. Never mind splash white and blue.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack.


You just named one.  Venser bounces him from the stack or battlefield. 
Executioner's Capsule can kill him, Gideon's Lawkeeper and Ensnaring Bridge


I play all of these. erryday.


They all work.  If you're worried about Emrakul enough to call for a ban, maybe you should try playing the cards that deal with him.

Oblivion Ring can remove him.


Not if he's hardcasted.


How he's cast has nothing to do with it.  O-Ring can remove him.  You'll have to wait for your turn to come around, but since I've already mentioned above that you can prevent him from ever attacking that's not such a big problem.
They all work.  If you're worried about Emrakul enough to call for a ban, maybe you should try playing the cards that deal with him.

How he's cast has nothing to do with it.  O-Ring can remove him.  You'll have to wait for your turn to come around, but since I've already mentioned above that you can prevent him from ever attacking that's not such a big problem.


The suggested cards will only work against Emrakul. Not even the deck(s) as a whole. Just Emrakul. Sideboarding in 1-4+ copies of something just do deal with a single card in a single deck is ridiculous.

Commandeer. Now you have an Emrakul.


p.s. It just dawned on me that Commandeer will not work.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO

People are running MD card's that can deal with Emrakul.

Cryptic Command taps him down to give you another turn to cats a ring/ensnaring bridge, phyrexian metamorph etc etc, or finish your opponent off.

Pestermite taps him down, lets you untap into splinter twin win.

Ghost quarter/Tectonic edge.

Chord of Calling out a Shriekmaw kills him.


Tron decks are the only ones running Emrakul. However there are loads of decks that beat Tron. Try to beat the deck, not a specific card, because they are doing mroe than one card, as you should also be doing.

Christ, pack some Blood moon in the board and be done with it. Literally, until you start playing competitive decks properly, then you have no justification for commenting on the format. Have you even played in a PTQ? If so, what deck did you play? What deck are you playing in modern at the moment that can't beat any of the pillars of the format?


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Yes, let's see the deck that cannot deal with Emrakul and we will fix it for you.

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Yes, let's see the deck that cannot deal with Emrakul and we will fix it for you.


My debate is that there's no common method to deal with an existing Emrakul. Seemingly everything except Emrakul can be both commonly prevented from hitting the field and dealt with once hitting the field. All the listed methods have been either/all far-fetched, uncommon, topdeck master solutions. And even with those solutions, there's potential to have to undergo the same ordeal if you bury him as opposed to RFGing him. And what does red do against a landed Emrakul? What does affinity do?

p.s. If you want to see a deck that can't deal with an existing Emrakul, look no further than my Big Red I posted in the deck help. For someone who tossed out a want ad desiring help, you've certainly reciprocated...
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO

Perhaps try playing a good deck.

As for Affinity, they tend to smash Tron pretty effectively.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
As for Affinity, they tend to smash Tron pretty effectively.


Again, the solution is "beat them before they beat you".
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO

It's very easy to beat your opponent before they Emrakul you. It's the same as playing agaisnt a control deck in most formats, you have so many turns to win before they have a full controlled grasp of the game.

If you hate Emrakul so much, play Twin and you can tap it down whenever you like. Or Melira pod with Shriekmaw.

If you run a deck that isn't good enough to compete, don't start asking for the format to be fixed. There are a potential 15 decks capable of winnning a PTQ. Emrakul is not an issue.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/

Please explain to me how having a 15/15 can't be countered, sac six permanents, take an extra turn, protection from colored spells creature is good for ANY metagame? I have yet to observe Emrakul as anything other than abusive and broken. Cards are not supposed to be designed like this.


To reward people who can consistently get 15 mana before you kill them, or jump through some unusual hoops to cast it another way (not put it straight into play).  If you're letting someone get to that point, the game is over no matter what they're spending 15 on.  Off the top of my head, Banefire for the same cost wouldn't put you in any better position.



There are more ways out against Banefire, aren't there? You can get Venser (the creature), you can prevent the damage, or you can get Gaddock Teeg before they do that. I'm not aware of anything that can stop an Emrakul on the stack. He resolves- guaranteed- and whatever you're doing after that doesn't matter. The game is over. In what universe should a card that reads, "the game is over" be legal in any format?



Venser bounces Emrakul from the stack too btw.
Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.

It's very easy to beat your opponent before they Emrakul you. It's the same as playing agaisnt a control deck in most formats, you have so many turns to win before they have a full controlled grasp of the game.

If you hate Emrakul so much, play Twin and you can tap it down whenever you like. Or Melira pod with Shriekmaw.

If you run a deck that isn't good enough to compete, don't start asking for the format to be fixed. There are a potential 15 decks capable of winnning a PTQ. Emrakul is not an issue.



I've read most of your comments in this thread. I find them insulting and arrogant. I play Melira Pod with Shriekmaw and Chord of Calling already. Of course, generating 8 mana at instant speed is very difficult against a deck where they run Pyroclasm regularly. Perhaps a better answer would be Phantasmal Image- he's cheaper and does the same thing. 
They all work.  If you're worried about Emrakul enough to call for a ban, maybe you should try playing the cards that deal with him.

How he's cast has nothing to do with it.  O-Ring can remove him.  You'll have to wait for your turn to come around, but since I've already mentioned above that you can prevent him from ever attacking that's not such a big problem.


The suggested cards will only work against Emrakul. Not even the deck(s) as a whole. Just Emrakul. Sideboarding in 1-4+ copies of something just do deal with a single card in a single deck is ridiculous.

You are mad as a hatter.  Oblivion Ring deals with WAY more than just Emmy.  It isw a solid MD and SB card against Planeswalkers, and most of the threats in Modern.  Besides, even if it wasn't as useful as it is competitive decks have for years run 1-4 copies of a card just to deal with a strategy that is difficult.  Running 3-4 Ghost Quarter in your deck can be amazing, and damaging to a lot of the popular decks in Modern. 

I am curious what you deck you are running that you feel cannot be tweaked to deal with Emmy, or is it that you don't want to have to make room for answers in your deck because you cannot let go of your toys?

It's very easy to beat your opponent before they Emrakul you. It's the same as playing agaisnt a control deck in most formats, you have so many turns to win before they have a full controlled grasp of the game.

If you hate Emrakul so much, play Twin and you can tap it down whenever you like. Or Melira pod with Shriekmaw.

If you run a deck that isn't good enough to compete, don't start asking for the format to be fixed. There are a potential 15 decks capable of winnning a PTQ. Emrakul is not an issue.



I've read most of your comments in this thread. I find them insulting and arrogant. I play Melira Pod with Shriekmaw and Chord of Calling already. Of course, generating 8 mana at instant speed is very difficult against a deck where they run Pyroclasm regularly. Perhaps a better answer would be Phantasmal Image- he's cheaper and does the same thing. 



You need it at instant speed, otherwise you lose all your stuff before you get a turn. And the thing about Chord in the Melira deck, is that it's designed to use it, so it has Walls of roots which effectively tap for two mana for Chord, as well as birds and being able to tap ALL your guys for mana when it comes to casting the Chord. So it's like an 8 mana spell, except you often only tap 3-4 mana for it.




Also, people are making an error when talking about Emrakul, you do not need to beat a specific card, magic does not work that way, you need to beat specific Decks/Archetypes. If a Tron players opponent is building around stopping Emrakul, then they get a free win since the rest of the deck is what usually wins them the game anyway.

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I think that you are all ignoring the heart of the issue: Emrakul is dumb.

U-la-mog! U-la-mog! U-la-mog!
lol its rly funny to have all these agro-counter ppl bitch about coming up against a strategy they cant handle^^

emrakul is slow(-ish), its beaten by fast agro decks.
it relies on the tron to get anywhere so target that and youre well in the lead.
and ofc bribery.

its actually a deck for which theres cards that can heavily curtail the deck. Who cares if you can only beat a cast emrakul by exiling the spell or with colorless removal, just out agro the deck or deal with the manabase.

its not written anywhere (that matters) that control should be the only strategy for which there is no counterstrategy, and control is the only (good) deck that has very big difficulties against emrakultron
jelly, sorry for not helping yet. If you read my last post in my thread I've been trying to get ready for a PTQ yesterday. I did look at your thread but mono red once you go far enough back in time set-wise isn't my niche (zing!). Plus I work a very full time job, am married, waaaah etc. I'll help you out in a few with my thoughts.

Other stuff:
RE Emrakul:

If you cannot chord in a shriekmaw, try fleshbag marauder. Tron doesn't usually have a plethora of creatures or a way to punish you with your own card. Faceless Butcher would also be a cute way to get in their face if they're not running the GR build. Same as Fiend Hunter... but to be clear Marauder does it best really.

Executioner's Capsule is an all star Emrakul answer. It also scares a ton of threats off the board and into opponents' hands. Same vein as Seal of Doom but cheaper to play and bob into...

Other uncommon things that could be of use to existing archetypes:
Tumble Magnet seems to work just fine. There's a probably better card than this in the modern card pool.

Brittle Effigy seems good. Tougher to use than Capsule but a way more permanent answer. Perhaps a mirror tech piece.

It's also worth mentioning that there's a card in the format that let's you access the capsule and effigy without heavy investment; Trinket Mage. He's also easy to fix for and can be found with Birthing Pod or Chord.

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Playing a G/R Version of Tron w/ Emrakul, I have been able to beat a variety of decks I come up against from Aggro to Control. The consistancy of getting all 3 Tron lands out on turn 3 to drop a Karn Liberated or All is Dust is incredible. I think that is the major issue.

Yes, there are tons of ways to get rid of Emrakul or prevent him from attacking. The problem is most of them have to be in play waiting for him to hit the board. Also, getting 15 mana (13 with Eye of Ugin) is very easy with the right Tron build. And if I am able to drop Karn on turn 3 to exile a land and set you back, then it's even more difficult to recover.

Sure, there are crazy fast aggro decks that brush off Pyroclasm, but I don't know many aggro decks that can combat All is Dust. Fish maybe, but they can't survive Pyroclasm without 2 lords out.

I don't think Emrakul needs banned, but I do agree it's extremely easy to get him into the field, and it's not much fun to play or see on the other side.

That being said, I found a UR deck idea using Wildfire that houses Tron and a ton of other decks that is a blast to play! I'm going to the deck help section now to post a list for help, as I am not familiar with a ton of older cards that may help out.
sowing salt also needs mention i think.

There is no doubt emrakul is very strong but hes not unbeatable at all, especially after sideboard. having a deck that is so popular and strong that sideboards dedicate several cards to this one deck is hardly unheard of and not really a problem when some sideboard options can completely ruin the strategy.

but i agree, the 7 mana t3 is the real killer but the likelyhood of that is no greater than combo decks etc.

the bottom line is that many deck types has no problem with this deck (by which i mean that win % is around 50%), anything that builds up a big, fast offense can even have  an advantage if it uses haste/direct damage. The decktype that does have problems with emrakul is the one that dedicates half or more of the deck to answers/control that are often irrelevant with respect to the cards played by emrakul decks, (although discard can seriously hamper emrakul). However, this decktype has dominated the playing field in almost any format for years and personally I welcome a deck that can open up the playing field again, or at least force these decks to focus their sideboards on either emrakul or agro, thus giving them somewhat of a disadvantage against other decktypes.
granted if control wasnt so widespread combo might run rampant which would probably be even less fun^^ 
Is it wrong that I now want to build a nice big myr deck with a bunch of tutor for the sole purpose of bringing Emrakul out? use some of the colored myrs, add in Myr superion and Palladium Myr, and 2 Emrakul. would be a scary modern casual deck.
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Excuse my ignorance when I ask how is O-ring is capable of exiling Emrakul? I thought he had protection from colored spells and that o-ring is a white spell that targets him. Cards with abilities I understand can deal with him so Gideon's Lawkeeper should keep him tapped. Thanks if you can help cure my ignorance.
Excuse my ignorance when I ask how is O-ring is capable of exiling Emrakul? I thought he had protection from colored spells and that o-ring is a white spell that targets him. Cards with abilities I understand can deal with him so Gideon's Lawkeeper should keep him tapped. Thanks if you can help cure my ignorance.



Spells are only spells when they are on the stack. O-ring only targets once it's in play, so it's an enchantment targetting him, not a spell.
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I played some matches of Modern this week...Emrakul is still far too strong. I didn't know about Through the Breach, which is a new thing for me. I can't for the life of me understand how he is still legal.
You all need to stop crying about cards that are too powerful and yes I have emrakul, the aeons torn but thats not why I am mad modern is a diverse format that opens the game up to some of the best cards made without paying vintage prices banning cards on power level is like asking carl lewis run slower becuase it is just not fair
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