Bring back rules for getting drunk/high.

To get yo drank on see 3e Arms & Equipment Guide pg. 30-32

To get a righteous buzz goin' see 3e Book of Vile Darkness pg. 40-44

Bring it all back. I want to play boozing alcoholic dwarves and wine snob elves, have drinking contests with pirates, and smoke crazy mad pipe weed with Gandalf. I want to be able to "visit the spirit realm" and "commune with my ancestors". I want villains like Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet, Harvey Keitel in Bad Lieutenant, Raymond Cruz in Breaking Bad, Sean Penn in Carlito's Way. Mean nasty psychos who chemically enhance their sadism, or weak willed weasels who are held in thrall by their impulsivity.

Let's get crunk y'all.
IMAGE(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/LolaBonne/TSNO.jpg)
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Don't worry, it can be a module.
And the table of names and prices for various types of hookers.. and the picture of the succubus needs to be naked too.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I agree with putting back rules for drunk adn high character, as well as the rules for drug addiction as here are in the book of vile darkness. An other edition of that book, or another book/module/whatever for controverse stuff like this could be a nice add in for the game. After all these are things that exist, and once in a while are fun to play.
To say one my character last session had fun whith some hookers in sharn. 
And the table of names and prices for various types of hookers..


3e Arms & Equipment Guide pg 63 Table 4-2, "masseuse" makes 2sp per day.

and the picture of the succubus needs to be naked too.


This is a flavor/artwork issue.

Let's not turn this into a thread about hookers please.
 IMAGE(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/LolaBonne/TSNO.jpg) 

I am with you on this one actually but shrug... 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I agree with Salla and Garthanos.  However, IDK if we agree for the same reasons.  I am against it because it's a bad system.  Adventurers do tend to drink and smoke (though usually nothing harder than tobacco), so I can't say I'd mind the inclusion of an "Intoxicated" condition.

Oh, and Garthanos, I don't think the succubus should be naked, but I darn well want her to be sexy.  I think some editions did this badly by making her supermodel thin.  The old b&w succubus, regardless of whether her nudity was appropriate or not, at least had a somewhat reasonable body type.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

C'mon guys this is a rules thread, let's leave the artwork stuff in the flavor forum.

Discuss your thoughts on the mechanics of getting wasted.
I am against it because it's a bad system.



Expand on this.
C'mon guys this is a rules thread, let's leave the artwork stuff in the flavor forum.

Discuss your thoughts on the mechanics of getting wasted.


Ok then.  Instead of going with what 3e did, I would go by the drinks per hour rule.  Assume a base number of alcoholic drinks in an hour (lets start the bidding with two) plus or minus one drink per plus or minus one of Con modifier; any negative result means drunk after one drink.  You could then rule that especially potent beverages (e.g. dwarven whiskey) count as more drinks.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Why do you need rules?  Can't you just roleplay the effects?

OK, maybe you need some rules for getting drunk against your will - but isn't that really a mild form of poisoning in that case?


But if you are talking about your character heading out to a bar and getting drunk - just do it.  You don't need formal rules for something like that.

Carl     
Why do you need rules?  Can't you just roleplay the effects?

OK, maybe you need some rules for getting drunk against your will - but isn't that really a mild form of poisoning in that case?


But if you are talking about your character heading out to a bar and getting drunk - just do it.  You don't need formal rules for something like that.

Carl     


That's largely true.  If your character intends to go out and get wasted, then no rules needed.  However, I still think an "Intoxicated" condition would be nice in case you surprise the party with an encounter or if part of the party gets into trouble while the barbarian is getting blind-stinking drunk.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Why do you need rules?  Can't you just roleplay the effects?

OK, maybe you need some rules for getting drunk against your will - but isn't that really a mild form of poisoning in that case?


But if you are talking about your character heading out to a bar and getting drunk - just do it.  You don't need formal rules for something like that.

Carl     


That's largely true.  If your character intends to go out and get wasted, then no rules needed.  However, I still think an "Intoxicated" condition would be nice in case you surprise the party with an encounter or if part of the party gets into trouble while the barbarian is getting blind-stinking drunk.



Or you could just use something like the dazed condition for it.

As far as rules go, I agree with CarlT. Just use it as a poison. That's basically what it is, anyway.
Why do you need rules?  Can't you just roleplay the effects?

OK, maybe you need some rules for getting drunk against your will - but isn't that really a mild form of poisoning in that case?


But if you are talking about your character heading out to a bar and getting drunk - just do it.  You don't need formal rules for something like that.

Carl     


That's largely true.  If your character intends to go out and get wasted, then no rules needed.  However, I still think an "Intoxicated" condition would be nice in case you surprise the party with an encounter or if part of the party gets into trouble while the barbarian is getting blind-stinking drunk.



Or you could just use something like the dazed condition for it.

As far as rules go, I agree with CarlT. Just use it as a poison. That's basically what it is, anyway.


If there is a presented condition that also covers intoxication, it should be mentioned in the rules.

Also, back in 3e, I once used the blur spell's description on a character who got so drunk he was seeing double.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Carlito's Way.



Love that film (Sean/David Kleinfeld is amazing).
IMAGE(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa279/LolaBonne/TSNO.jpg)
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- ) Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right.
fun quotes
58419928 wrote:
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
69216168 wrote:
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?[/quote]
I used to use a house rule for drinking like so:

Each drink has a base DC depending on its "proof," and required a Fortitude save each time a drink was drank.

A failed save caused a temp -1 WIS, -1 DEX.  Each second failed save caused a temp +1 STR.

Each time you drank, regardless of whether the save succeeded or not, the next drink had a cumulative DC increase of +2.  While all of these effects stacked, the top effect of each stack wore off each hour, as well.  Some high proof drinks (or larger glass sizes) counted as two+ drinks in a row.

If you failed 5 or more saves, you were hungover the next day, a -2 to all d20 rolls for the first 6 hours of the day.  If you failed 10 or more saves, you were extremely hungover, taking only partial actions for the first 6 hours, and a -2 to all d20 rolls the entire day.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
To anyone posting that stupid pony picture, what exactly is your objection?
To anyone posting that stupid pony picture, what exactly is your objection?



Yes, I must say the My Little Pony art stuff is really kind of cringe-making.
I really don't understand why it's a problem to have a "Drunk/High" condition with the mechanical effects of being drunk.
I really don't understand why it's a problem to have a "Drunk/High" condition with the mechanical effects of being drunk.



The problem is that is a thing so rare and some narrow that having rules for it (let alone creating a whole sub-system) is just wasted space.

Technically you can have rules for everything (why not pissing contest then? Why would you even drink for?), but you should have only rules for things that matter, and drinking rarely matters, if ever.
Also, rules for getting drunk are always silly in D&D, you either get drunk from a sip or drink more than you body weight without ripercussions... Mostly because of the silly ramdom system for a thing that is not really a lot random (after the percentile of alcohol in your blood goes above x you are "drunk").
I'd go about it in this manner:

Alcoholic Beverage
Consumable
Item Power (Standard Action, Consumable, Poison): The item makes an attack against the consumer of the alcohol, Item level +5 vs. Fortitude.
Hit: The target can take only standard and move actions (save ends).  Any attack against the target grants the target a saving throw to end the effect as a free action.
First Failed Saving Throw: The target is instead dazed and slowed (save ends both).  Any attack against the target grants the target a saving throw to end effect as a free action.
Second Failed Saving Throw: The target is unconscious (save ends).  While the target is unconscious, it can take one random action as determined by the DM.
Special: If the attack is a critical, the target immediately fails its first saving throw.
Special: If the attack misses only on a 5 or lower, the attack automatically hits and the target fails both its first and second saving throw.



EDIT: Everything that happens while affected by this item is wholly roleplay-oriented
Show

You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.

D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - D&D Compendium

57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I really don't understand why it's a problem to have a "Drunk/High" condition with the mechanical effects of being drunk.



The problem is that is a thing so rare and some narrow that having rules for it (let alone creating a whole sub-system) is just wasted space.

Technically you can have rules for everything (why not pissing contest then? Why would you even drink for?), but you should have only rules for things that matter, and drinking rarely matters, if ever.
Also, rules for getting drunk are always silly in D&D, you either get drunk from a sip or drink more than you body weight without ripercussions... Mostly because of the silly ramdom system for a thing that is not really a lot random (after the percentile of alcohol in your blood goes above x you are "drunk").



We don't need silly rules to determine how much booze you need to get drunk. I don't see why it's a bad thing to have a general condition "clouded mind" that would apply to exotic diseases that give you very high fever, hallucinating fumes that the bad guys use in their lairs, etc.

But I get your point with the pissing contest. I don't want the core rules to include anything that could give players what they need to turn a D&D session into an episode of Bevis and Buthead.
I really don't understand why it's a problem to have a "Drunk/High" condition with the mechanical effects of being drunk.



The problem is that is a thing so rare and some narrow that having rules for it (let alone creating a whole sub-system) is just wasted space.

Technically you can have rules for everything (why not pissing contest then? Why would you even drink for?), but you should have only rules for things that matter, and drinking rarely matters, if ever.
Also, rules for getting drunk are always silly in D&D, you either get drunk from a sip or drink more than you body weight without ripercussions... Mostly because of the silly ramdom system for a thing that is not really a lot random (after the percentile of alcohol in your blood goes above x you are "drunk").



We don't need silly rules to determine how much booze you need to get drunk. I don't see why it's a bad thing to have a general condition "clouded mind" that would apply to exotic diseases that give you very high fever, hallucinating fumes that the bad guys use in their lairs, etc.

But I get your point with the pissing contest. I don't want the core rules to include anything that could give players what they need to turn a D&D session into an episode of Bevis and Buthead.



That's something I'm in favor of. But, it should be broader than just "drunk". You can also have a line in the description of that condition that refers to being drunk, and the DM can go from there.
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM!
Show
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Ideas for 5E
The problem is that is a thing so rare and some narrow that having rules for it (let alone creating a whole sub-system) is just wasted space.


I'm not exactly sure that characters drinking alcohol is a rare and narrow event in D&D sessions.  Typically it's not even a rare and narrow event in the sessions I've played for the players to be doing it.

I'm against a status unless it can have some cumulative effect.  Intoxication isn't an off/on switch.  I'd like it to be as realistic as possible without it being overbearing (note, your threshold for overbearing minutiae is probably different from mine).  But I do think intoxication effects should be specific and varied, rather than broad, as different intoxicants typically cause different effects.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Given how often D&D games start in a tavern, end in a tavern, or involve drinking it's probably a good idea. 



  • After an adventure the party fighter hits the inn and downs a few pints. The next morning the group decides to head out to the dungeon early but the fighter is hung over. What penalties does he have? How long does it last?

  • It's a fancy dinner party held by the duke and the characters are given much strong wine. Can they maintain a clear head? What skills are impacted and penalized?

  • To get an item from an orc thug, the party barbarian challenges him to a contest of strength! First one under the table loses and must surrender an item.

  • Inspired by Jackie Chan, a player wants their monk to be a drunken master. How does that work?

  • While relaxing after a long day of adventuring, the party is having some drinks. Suddenly, someone drops a tiefling racial slur. A chair over the head is used for a rebuttal. It's ON! What penalties do those in the bar brawl suffer?

  • When meeting with the chieftan of the nomadic elven tribe, the heroes are greeted and offered a draught of their most potent drink. The warriors of the villiage are expected to drink deeply without coughing or vomitting. Can the heroes win the chieftan's respect? Or with the wizard double over and ruin the negotiation?


As long as the system is kept short and light it shouldn't be a problem. We'd just need something quick and fun. It's one of those things that doesn't come up in your games because they're aren't rules for it so you avoid it or skirt around the rules. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

Drinking rules could be a fun extension...


My first instinct was to say that it isn't needed in core, but then I remembered all the unused pages in DMG and realized that it is probably more useful than half the stuff in there... so go ahead and put it in the DMG from the start...


I'd like there to be options in the drinking rules for influencing someone who is drunk to dumb stuff, like getting them to throw the first punch and start a bar fight, or trick them into flirting with the huge barbarians girlfriend. :D


Show
Also... the succubus should be nekkid and have some curves... :D


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.




I would like rules for bootlaces.  I mean adventurers always wear bootlaces (except for some hobbits, centaurs, and satyrs, and Dark Sun where I guess they all wear sandals or flip-flops), but there have never been rules for it.  How often do you have to tie your bootlaces?  Is it a standard, move, or minor action to re-tie them?  What are the chances of them coming undone during combat, or getting caught in an escalator trap?  We should have a condition called "unlaced" that explains the mechanical effects of walking around with unlaced boots.  An unlaced boot might have a higher chance of getting caught in mud and coming undone.  And then you'd have the condition "one-booted"... just like John McClain in Die Hard!  See?  Having to run around with only one boot is a staple of the action movie!

on Topic
Why does this require anything more than... someone intoxicated is Dazed.  Everytime you have an intoxicant roll a DC 10 Con check (+2 per drink already in your system).  Your system can clear out 1 intoxicant/hour  If you are dazed from intoxicants and roll a natural 1, you suffer from alcohol poisoning, which can include anything from vomiting, beer goggles, passing out, passing out and choking on your own vomit, or death.

If you have a drinking contest, have the participants roll opposing Constitution checks until someone loses.  That character has passed out.

There, done.  Was that really so hard?  Now somebody get to work on bootlace rules!
Kalnaur, Garthanos and Salla all sum it up perfectly (though, I won't use the pony picture myself), but the objection is that it's unnecessary.

Just from the way your original post read, I'd be liable to object on that basis. D&D is not for 'gettin' yo drank on' or 'gettin' crunk'. I'm sure if you wanted that, you could find a local frat party. I can say I would bring the DM hammer down on anyone who said that, seriously, in-character in a game of mine. It's just so immersion breaking.

Not only that, it just doesn't have a place in D&D. I currently play a pirate game wherein one of the PCs is a permanent drunk. Full on alcoholic. The only cure for a hangover is more drinking. They're amazed he's not dead yet. That kinda thing. If I started attaching negative effects, or mechanics to this character, I'm sure the player behind him would no longer find her character any fun.

If you want to get drunk, you're going to get drunk. You don't need codified rules for it. If you want an encounter where the party is drunk and want a mechanical effect, then make one up and be consistent in the future.

When it comes to getting high... just no. If you have to reference the Book of Vile Dumb, you've already invalidated your argument. It was a book that failed to take evil seriously, and made it almost a parody instead. Not only that, but what purpose is there in getting high? You said you wanted to make villains who do so, but... what for? Couldn't you just portray them that way? Do you need mechanics?

And naturally, because the public eye is always on D&D, making these rules core is asking for problems with conservative and religious groups.

If you have a drinking contest, have the participants roll opposing Constitution checks until someone loses.  That character has passed out.

There, done.  Was that really so hard?  Now somebody get to work on bootlace rules!


Better than the Pony Pic ... bootlaces, aside - Wrecan is a real trooper and I am way too lazy in this case for the elaborations.

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Wrecan I know your post was a joke but I actually like the idea. Getting caught up in your own ill-fitting garments could be quite the plot device.

Show
NO CAPES!
Do you need mechanics?


I wish I had a really big "YES" pony picture to put here a bunch of times.  The more (and more specific) there are mechanics that actually attempt to emulate a sense of realism, the better.

I like how you would bring the DM hammer down on a player for immersion breaking through dialog yet don't care about a character that is consistently a drunkard that suffers no actual mechanical repercussions or benefits from such a state.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Do you need mechanics?


I wish I had a really big "YES" pony picture to put here a bunch of times.  The more (and more specific) there are mechanics that actually attempt to emulate a sense of realism, the better.


Except unless you start injecting biochemistry lessons and the effects of alcohol toxicity in the body, combined with case studies on alcoholism, there will be no actual mechanic that can even closely "emulate a sense of realism", especially when considering the abstract nature of D&D in general.

Or are we to go back to a gridless wargame map where players have to measure everything to a fraction of an inch, determine the angle and velocity of every projectile -- be it arrow or fireball -- and determine effects using physics, trigonometry and other real life sciences?

Wasn't that Chainmail, and not Dungeons and Dragons
Show

You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.

D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - D&D Compendium

57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Also, I like how there is apparently no middle ground for realism between none at all and undergraduate level coursework.

I posted a set of house rules I use earlier in the thread that I think are both simple and still evoke a sense of emulating realism.

The bottom line is that yes, I would like mechanics to emulate a sense of realism, and I fully believe that's possible without being overbearing minutiae.  There's an edition I think accomplished those goals best, and one I think accomplished them worst.  I'm sure you can guess which is which.

But sure, bring on the physics and trigonometry.  Tabletop RPGs and miniatures games were a great source of academic inspiration for me growing up.  I'd love for a younger generation to be able to learn actual things from their games.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Back on topic:

I'd rather have drinking as an item that forces you to make a Constitution/Endurance check or save vs. Fortitude (whatever your edition preference be), with a situational progressive resistance to the stuff as you constantly drink, up to the point where you are actually sober while drunk [due to hangover effects].

Maybe I should've listed the Second Failed Save as Unconscious for a number of hours equal to the item's level times six, even when attacked.... and an Aftereffect: If you failed your first saving throw, at the end of your next extended rest, you suffer the same penalties as if you had just been resurrected, for the same duration.  And maybe with the following line attached to the Second Failed Save: If the item level is 5 or more levels higher than the target, take 5/tier ongoing poison damage.

As for getting high, same thing, same effect, except the initial effect is dazed and gains combat advantage against creatures you attack (save ends both), first failed saving throw would be that you treat all creatures as enemies, dazed and gains combat advantage against creatures you attack (save ends all), with Effect: Ongoing 2/tier poison and necrotic damage (save ends).  Increase the ongoing damage to 5/tier if the target failed its first saving throw.
Show

You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.

D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - D&D Compendium

57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Also, I like how there is apparently no middle ground for realism between none at all and undergraduate level coursework.


Only if you consider that tabletop RPGs must be as realistic as possible.

And I'd rather not have to bring a scientific calculator or an overbearingly-complicated spreadsheet program to my TRPG sessions, thank you very much.
Show

You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.

D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - D&D Compendium

57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
Do you need mechanics?


I wish I had a really big "YES" pony picture to put here a bunch of times.  The more (and more specific) there are mechanics that actually attempt to emulate a sense of realism, the better.



My list below is entirely serious:
- Do you want rules for needing to go to the bathroom?
- Do you want rules for catching a cold?
- Do you want rules that calculate chances and effects of infection from wounds?
- Do you want rules for food poisoning?
- Do you want rules for random character death due to heart/liver/kidney/etc failure?
- Do you want rules to determine if your character is predisposed to a medical condition?
- Do you want rules to determine if a character becomes sick from crawling around in an ancient, fungus-infested dungeon?

D&D is a Fantasy Adventure roleplaying game. It is not meant to be a realistic simulation of a band of people going into dank places that probably have deadly levels of air pollutants.

Not to mention how it's unlikely any system meant to "emulate a sense of realism" will actually be anywhere near what somethign is in real life. Of course, I'm well aware that "sense of realism" means "More rules for everything", because that at least allows some people to PRETEND that the devs were trying to make this a realistic game about slaying flying lizards.
 
I like how you would bring the DM hammer down on a player for immersion breaking through dialog yet don't care about a character that is consistently a drunkard that suffers no actual mechanical repercussions or benefits from such a state.



Heaven forbid that someone roleplays a character without it having at least a page of rules and 2-4 tables listing exact mechanical effects of a fun character quirk! It's almost as if some people want to play a game about the adventurous exploits of a group of adventurers in a fantastic world, and not a stogey simulation of life in the dark ages!
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
If you think drugs and alcohol don't belong in the game, don't use them, but if you think they aren't useful you're just not using your imagination. You can slip an enemy a drug that can put him to sleep, kill him dead, lower an attribute, or alter his behaviour. The social implications of public intoxication can have devastating political outcomes. Addiction can radically alter abilities and behaviour.

What happens when you PC tries to game a magic drug to gain a combat advantage and accidentally overdoses? Drugs are not the only things that can become addictive. Does your character get a rush from some type of compulsive behaviour? What happens when he compulsively bets the party's loot at a casino and loses it? What happens when a character with OCD is too busy performing a compulsive ritual to help in combat? What do you do when the Big Bad knows what your addicted to and becomes the only available source of a fix? Do not underestimate the roleplaying potential of addiction and the effects of drugs on combat ability...
Why does this require anything more than... someone intoxicated is Dazed.  Everytime you have an intoxicant roll a DC 10 Con check (+2 per drink already in your system).  Your system can clear out 1 intoxicant/hour  If you are dazed from intoxicants and roll a natural 1, you suffer from alcohol poisoning, which can include anything from vomiting, beer goggles, passing out, passing out and choking on your own vomit, or death.

If you have a drinking contest, have the participants roll opposing Constitution checks until someone loses.  That character has passed out.

There, done.  Was that really so hard?  Now somebody get to work on bootlace rules!




Well...  coming up with rules is not impossible... We could invent all rules ourselves, in fact I have developed quite a few RPGs myself during the years.

However, having well thought out official rules does make things easier. While your post was probably written as you made up the rules above and was not all that seriously meant, the rules you provided for drinking are acceptable, but not all that great to be honest. And that does illustrate a point... if you wing rules live during the gaming sessions, they will probably be less thought through. 

Sure... drinking rules are not really that important to the game. But they are infinitely more useful than lacing rules (which I also get was not that seriously meant, but more used to get your point across). However... drinking is definitely a part of many games I have played in many groups... so I do believe the OP is onto something with the post.

And sure... it is not part of everyones game... But many of the rules are not... I have played with many groups, and I don't think anyone has ever had much use for drowning, even though it sounds like such a useful rule. E.g. the odds of "barely" surviving a drowning event is close to non-existant. Either you know you'll make the dive and you do it, or you are unsure and you find a better way. In a situation where you are surprised by drowning, e.g. your ship goes down, you are pretty much dead unless you find a better way than swimming to shore. Also any event which have you rolling for drowning is bound to kill everyone else before it turns remotely interesting for the pumped fighter.

I would have had more use for drinking rules than drowning rules... so I think it's nice to see useful options being suggested.


The Character Initiative


Every time you abuse the system you enforce limitations.
Every time the system is limited we lose options.
Breaking an RPG is like cheating in a computer game.
As a DM you are the punkbuster of your table.
Dare to say no to abusers.
Make players build characters, not characters out of builds.