B/G - Sac/Discard/reanimator

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After playing my first games of multiplayer (3 free for all) last night I had an idea strike me for a new deck but I am having trouble finalizing the list. You see these are all cards that I have pretty much not played with so I do not have much knowledge or understanding of how well they perform in game, and I was hoping to pull my vast amount of knowledgeable resources from you good people on this site. My idea consisted of a game plan which includes discarding your opponent(s) and your self as well for the reanimator effect plus cards like lord of extinction, and mortivore, while also having a strong sacrifice effect to keep the board clear, graveyard full and help your creatures get huuge!

I will be listing several cards which I believe have great synergy with each other and could use all of your help in getting this deck trimmed to which card would be the most effecient and most fun to play. I hope that you will enjoy the idea because I know helping will probably take some work on all of your parts and let me say that I will be greatly appreciative! And yes I do have a lot cards laid out because they all seem like they could fit well in this type of deck or one like it. Sooo let the trimming begin, and please if you have a better option please recommend!

Edit: I was originally delirious when I posted this and laid out a bunch of cool cards I had to begin building a new deck. Please forgive me and just scroll down if you wish, I have narrowed my focus. I left this here condensed just if case you care to look but I don't recommend lol!

initial thoughts

Creatures
cmc-1
2-3x fume spitter- seems a good one drop that has a good sac effect
4x gravecrawler- don't have these yet but seem absolutely necessary! *
4x mortician beetle- could be a huge beater in this deck
cmc-2
2-4x black cat- great defensive critter and sac-able one!
2-4x ravenous rats- not sure between this one and rotting rats
2-4x rotting rats- would be better in a reanimator than ravenous, plus I guess it has zombie type for gravecrawler
4x bloodthrone vampire- free sac outlet, though not sure about
2x fauna shaman- I really like this one, creature search and discard all in one! *
4x sakura-tribe elder- free sac and ramp, gotta love this one
2-4x perilous myr- good defense and sac, plus gets around colored protection
2x gatekeeper of malakir- obvious sac effect
cmc-3
2-4x fleshbag marauder- again, good sac effect pair with gravecrawler
2x hypnotic specter- here's where we get into the discard/ disrupt portion
2-4x liliana's specter- again with discard
cmc-4
2-3x guul draz specter- good discard, plus advantage?
1-2x mortivore- seems an absolute must for this deck as a win-con! *
cmc-5
1-2x fallen angel- flyer and free sac outlet to pump, seems good but haven't played it
1-2x lord of extinction- again seems absolute must for win-con! *
cmc-6+
1x tar fiend- costly but discard and sac in one, seems to have synergy here!
1x rune-scarred demon- these next few creatures are where we get into the reanimation portion, if you recommend
1x sheoldred, whispering one- great for reanimating
1x demon of death's gate
1x it that betrays- seems great for reanimator plus the synergy with sacrificing things

Whew, I know that is a lot of creatures, that is why I need help to find great synergy, consistency and overall fun-factor! I am ready to be schooled in this deck build! Now for other spells

Enchantments
bloodchief ascension- seems good for this deck
quest for the nihil stone- ditto to above
liliana's caress- If we go in a strong discard route, though not sure we would have room for this
grave pact- now this one...WOW, seems necessary!
painful quandary- now I've played against this one using control and ouch, it hurt!

Planeswalkers
2x Liliana Vess- the queen of this beast to be!*

Instants
2-4x dark ritual- ramp?
4x geth's verdict- great removal card, goes with sac synergy
2-4x altar's reap- instant draw with sac effect, nice! (chump block then sac for instant 2 cards)

Sorceries
4x duress- early discard and disruption
2-4x innocent blood- all around great kill card, but sorcery speed, still goes with sac synergy
1x life's finale- board wipe plus library disruption, could make mortivore& lord of extinction huge FTW
2x buried alive- for reanimation but prob won't have room for this
4x zombify- seems good for this no matter which way we go

Artifacts
1x the rack- can be brutal
1-2x trepanation blade- fill graveyard to make creatures bigger
1x geth's grimoire- again I like this, seems to give card advantage in this deck!
1x grimoire of the dead- has Liliana's final ability! should be great with full graveyards!

Lands I will have to figure out later, some are obvious woodland cemetery!


Well this is what I got set aside, well most of these I have (don't have gravecrawler  yet) and I feel that there is some great synergy here but as I said I haven't played with most of these cards but am looking forward to. I guessing that I can't have too strong of a discard or reanimator theme because that would take up too many card slots when filling the graveyards seems to be fun with some of above said creatures plus Liliana's  ultimate along with grimoire of the dead. Discard does seem essential though to make it work and with discard it seems that you could also have a mild reanimation theme with cards like fauna shaman- (so versatile) and zombify  could reanimate or just bring back a killed off fatty!

So please tell me what you think!  If your are able to help, thanks! If it is too much work, I understand but I hope that you think it is a fun deck idea for 1 vs 1 or even better in multiplayer! Even feedback on the cards listed would help, whether they are good or bad for this style of deck.
Okay, so after seeing this I must apologize... wow that is a lot of stuff! I was working on only 2 hours and 45 min of sleep. So I guess I was a little delirious, again sorry.

Well after thinking about it some more I have narrowed the list down with what I currently have and hope that someone will give it a chance because it seems that it could have some fun interaction on the board and with friends in the game!

Edit- Again you can continue to scroll down of you like to where I have finally trimmed it. This was difficult for me for some reason, I guess because of so many possibilties. But if want to see.....

still trimming

Creatures - 33
cmc-1
4x gravecrawler- don't have these but seem a good recurring sac creature and is aggressive!
4x mortician beetle- provides a real threat to players
cmc-2
2x black cat- great (leaves the battlefield effect)
2x perilous myr- same as above
2x rotting rats- all player discard, unearth seems appropriate (could dump big creature in graveyard)
2x fauna shaman- versatility, search and discard, could find appropriate creature or dump beater in graveyard
4x sakura-tribe elder- provides needed ramp plus sac effect for mortician beetle & grave pact
cmc-3
3x fleshbag marauder- chose this over gatekeeper of malakir because of my own creatures with leave the battlefield effects
1x hypnotic specter- only have 1 but seems good for filling graveyards and disruption
2x liliana's specter- to round out the slots for above, not sure which would be better for this build
cmc-4
1x guul draz specter- another specter for discard and growth
1x mortivore- this guy should be huge in this deck, win-con
cmc-5
1x fallen angel- seems good for recurring sac plus flying beater
1x lord of extinction- again huge guy for additional win-con
cmc- 6+ reanimators possibly
1x rune-scarred demon- his ability seems abusable
1x Sheoldred, whispering one- creates card advantage!
1x It that betrays- combo potential, but obviously would never cast, would have to reanimate

As you see I have reduced the creature list quite a bit but it definately needs some more!

Planeswalkers - 2
2x Liliana Vess- great for control and finisher for this deck

Enchantments - 1
1x grave pact- I only have one but intend on getting more if suggested!

Instants - 6
4x geth's verdict- instant sac, has synergy with deck
2x altar's reap- instant draw with sac effect, how do feel about this one?

Sorceries - 7
4x duress-  early discard for control
3x zombify- cut one but still seems nice to be able to reanimate fatty

Artifacts - 3
1x the rack- passive damage seems good, just cast and it puts pressure on opponent
1x geth's grimoire- creates card advantage, along with altar's reap
1x grimoire of the dead- has great flavor with deck and is a win-con! plus can dump fatty in GY


Total - 52
Still need to cut about 15 cards I guess but these seem to be the cream of the crop for my plan of this deck

So my strategy is to control the game with discard and sac effects which at the same time fills graveyards to boost creatures like mortivore and lord of extinction. The full graveyards can also provide a crazy Liliana  ultimate or grimoire of the dead  going off!
The creature sacrifice turns mortician beetle into a threat plus keeps the battlefield clear, especially when used in conjunction with grave pact! I am trying to create a fun deck that is an assault on all fronts but it seems hard to finish, I could really use some insight on most these cards and the strategy of playing them because as I have said, most them I have not played with and it is hard to cut ones that would be under-performers because they all seem good!

The flavor of the deck is around Liliana who has been called: "a zombie-sucking **** bag", by Baltrice in the book "Test of Metal". And I would really like this deck to have the graveyard rotting death feel provided by Liliana and then her necromantic raising the dead to use your own killed forces against you!

I know this is a lot but the idea has struck and given me a vision for a really cool deck, not one to take to a PTQ and win, but still be competitive and something different! Fun at the kitchen table! So I am calling out to all the creative forces out there, to please help me finish this deck and by all means make one yourself if you think you will like it!  Please provide explanation of cards removed or added to help understand choices made, this will help me and in turn allow me to help others in the future!
What is your budget? Do you have any Format or Legality restrictions?

I would focus on Discard OR abusing sac effects. I feel that by trying to do both you are weakening the deck. Which direction do you want to take?


So please tell me what you think!  If your are able to help, thanks! If it is too much work, I understand but I hope that you think it is a fun deck idea for 1 vs 1 or even better in multiplayer!

Decks designed specifically for multiplayer are going to be quite different to decks designed for duels. Which direction do you want to take?

Okay, so after seeing this I must apologize... wow that is a lot of stuff!

As a whole, you don't need to include card-by-card descriptions. Unless it is a complicated combo, most here people will be able to follow your thinking.


Here are my initial cuts from the second list you posted:

- 1 Guul Draz Specter
- 1 Fallen Angel
- 1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
- 1 It That Betrays
- 1 Geth's Grimoire
- 1 Grave Pact
- 2 Perilous Myr
- 2 Fauna Shaman
- 3 FleshBag Marauder
- 3 Zombify

All the cards listed above are either not supported enough (and require too big a committment to do so) or aren't good enough at all.
That is 16 cuts, which leaves you at 36 cards (which means you have 24 spaces open for Lands).

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+1 sheoldred
+1 it that betrays

Too tasty for reanimator to cut. Yeah they can be hit by spells, but so can most cards.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/12.jpg)

Alright some help has arrived   Time to answer some questions: I don't really have a budget (I am 34, so as long as I don't go too crazy and upset my wife ;) ) , some cards may take some time to aquire though, price dependant! Format would be mostly just casual. I want the deck to be successful in 1v1 but also play well in free for all. As I have said earlier, I just got my first taste of it and it was fun. (see I don't really have a play group and am completely self taught at this game).

I am sorry for the all the confusion! I have however been working on the deck itself and have come to a new narrowed focus! I think that I want to call it "Liliana's Grave Pact" and abuse sac effects to keep the board clear with minor discard to supplement filling graveyards and provide small control ie: duress. Then swarm the battlefield with Liliana's  ultimate or the grimoire of the dead. This could be the mass reanimation part, which should be an auto win in any format barring a wrath effect which is why I need a small discard theme.

Well I have sleeved up a 60 card deck, it is incomplete mind you but I wanted to get a gist of how it would play.

Creatures - 22
4x mortician beetle
4x black cat 
4x reassembling skeleton- these are filling the slots for future gravecrawlers
4x sakura-tribe elder
4x fleshbag marauder
1x mortivore
1x lord of extinction

Planeswalkers - 2
2x Liliana Vess

Artifacts - 2
1x grimoire of the dead
1x the rack

Other Spells - 11
1x grave pact- I know I need more and will aquire them, maybe run 3 of? what to take out though?
4x duress
2x altar's reap- these might become the other 2 grave pacts?
4x geth's verdict

Lands - 23
15x swamps
8x forests

I haven't picked up my lands yet but will probably get 4 woodland cemeterys to replace 3 forests and 1 swamp. Any other suggestions, maybe verdant catacombs.

I think this would be a fun deck for single or multiplayer. Let me know what you think! I decided to abandon to strong of a reanimator theme thinking that the new liliana of the veil  would be better for that with her discard ability along with the fauna shaman.  However as a sideboard I would like to keep this deck versatile and change it to a heavier discard or maybe reanimator theme if I play an oppenent who doesn't really use creatures rendering this deck not as useful. Maybe have liliana's caress  and specters  for that use and it that betrays  along with rotting rats  and fauna shaman  with zombifys  for the reanimator purpose in the sideboard to play against different styles.

Things that I didn't want to do is use the classic combo of dark ritual, entomb, exhume with Iona, shield of emeria  that just wouldn't seem fun after all..... opponent would probably rage quit. The game seems to want to have some interaction! If I use reanimation I like buried alive  and zombify  with Sheoldred and It that betrays  and how it works with all the sac effects that I have. This way it would be slow enough to keep other players from not wanting to play you but not too slow with a little control. I figured these would be good sideboard techniques for this deck since it seems verastile enough to have some interchangeble parts.

Edit: I have played with this and it does seem to get overrun by aggro but seems fun for now, of course a better land package would make it more consistent. Is there a good sweeper in black that sacrifices creatures or are my best bets damnation  and black sun's zenith? I don't have either for now but could use infest.  Also found a good sideboard card for an alternate strategy, mind slash. I had a playset put away that I had found
- 3 Swamp 
- 5 Forest
+ 4 WoodLand Cemetery
+ 4 Verdant Catacombs
 
No reason not to run a great mana base huh?

- 4 Duress
+ 4 ThoughtSeize

This is an  expensive ($$$) option, but excellent nontheless. You may want to consider running a playset of Sign In Blood here, or something to help you draw.

- 3 Black Cat
- 1 Fallen Angel
+ 4 Abyssal GateKeeper

Effects which say "each player" are fantastic for multiplayer, this increase also your Sacrifice count.

- 4 Geth's Verdict
+ 4 Innocent Blood

Another Sacrifice effect, and another "each player".

- 2 Altar's Reap
+ 2 Grixis SlaveDriver

Another Zombie (and it makes more!) and it has limited Reanimation.

You are now astonishingly heavy on the Sacrifice mechanic. While GraveCrawler does have Recursion, I can't help but feel that it isn't enough, I would be looking at BloodGhast (good with Verdant Catacombs ) and maybe Nether Traitor. I would add a playset of at least something similar at the expense of Mortivore, Lord Of Extinction, The Rack and Grave Pact.

These proposed alterations up the emphasis on Sacrifice, which may make getting OverRun harder, but to further combat that I would be looking at Damnation or (maybe) Barter In Blood.

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- 3 Swamp 
- 5 Forest
+ 4 WoodLand Cemetery
+ 4 Verdant Catacombs
 
No reason not to run a great mana base huh?

Actually I was already planning on doing at least this for the mana base. Just have to save up for these first. Any other suggestions?

- 4 Duress
+ 4 ThoughtSeize

This is an  expensive ($$$) option, but excellent nontheless. You may want to consider running a playset of Sign In Blood  here, or something to help you draw.

I went with altar's reap  instead of sign in blood  for two reasons, one: it is an instant, two: I can use it as a combat trick to block and then sac to draw cards and pump mortician beetle  to be just big enough to survive an attack.

- 3 Black Cat
- 1 Fallen Angel
+ 4 Abyssal GateKeeper

Effects which say "each player" are fantastic for multiplayer, this increase also your Sacrifice count.

I have already pulled the fallen angel  to put in the fourth black cat  today. Abyssal gatekeeper  seems almost counterproductive for me as I would have to sac another creature after he also dies. Plus the black cat  is a zombie which I need for gravecrawler, four of each of these plus 4 fleshbag marauder  would count as twelve zombies in the deck, hopefully that would be enough.

- 4 Geth's Verdict
+ 4 Innocent Blood

Another Sacrifice effect, and another "each player".

I love innocent blood  and may use it strictly for multiplayer, but for single player I can use the instant effect of geth's verdict  also as a combat trick.

- 2 Altar's Reap
+ 2 Grixis SlaveDriver

Another Zombie (and it makes more!) and it has limited Reanimation.

This seems useful but a little expensive, I may try playtesting it but don't really want to remove altar's reap. Plus I need to make room for grave pact,...... does nobody like this card? It seems good on paper but I haven't had much experience with it and I only have one copy for now. I have actually thought about removing 2 duress  for two more of these instead of the altar's reap  because they equal card advantage plus a conditional combat trick and with grave pact  they would also have to sac a creature. If I do that then I would have to strictly rely on black cat  for my opponents discard.

You are now astonishingly heavy on the Sacrifice mechanic. While GraveCrawler does have Recursion, I can't help but feel that it isn't enough, I would be looking at BloodGhast (good with Verdant Catacombs ) and maybe Nether Traitor. I would add a playset of at least something similar at the expense of Mortivore, Lord Of Extinction, The Rack and Grave Pact.

These proposed alterations up the emphasis on Sacrifice, which may make getting OverRun harder, but to further combat that I would be looking at Damnation or (maybe) Barter In Blood.

  I really love lord of extinction, after playing with him, he is an absolute beast, plus if I get off Liliana's ultimate or the grimoire of the dead, he will still be huge and not die like mortivore. He is also a win-con. I thought about picking up another copy to replace mortivore  with. What do you all think about that move? Bloodghast  is good but I wouldn't know what other key piece to take out in favor of him. Now nether traitor, that one seems like a gem!

Ah... barter in blood, I forgot about that one. I guess I could use that as a singleton in place of a damnation  or black sun's zenith  until I get one or would infest  be sufficient against aggressive weenies?

I thank you for your comments. I haven't really heard a lot about grave pact, is this a viable strategy or does it just look good on paper? That would suck 'cause I do like the deck name "Liliana's Grave Pact", or more simply "Liliana's Pact", yeah I think that I like that one! Lol
Here is my new proposed list even with cards that I haven't yet aquired.

"Liliana's Pact"

creatures - 22
4x gravecrawler
4x mortician beetle
4x black cat
4x sakura-tribe elder
4x fleshbag marauder
2x lord of extinction

planeswalkers - 2
2x Liliana Vess

artifacts - 2
1x grimoire of the dead
1x the rack

other spells - 11
3x grave pact
3x altar's reap
4x geth's verdict  could use innocent blood  for multiplayer
1x infest  for now, but maybe damnation,  or black sun's zenith, not sure yet. Don't know if there is anything better for synergy. Maybe the suggested barter in blood?

lands -23
4x woodland cemetery
4x verdant catacombs
12x swamps
3x forests

not sure what other lands I could use that would be good in this deck. Suggestions? Do you also think that it would be okay to go to 22 lands to make room for one more card?  Maybe another sweeper or another altar's reap? This list gives me 15 sac effects plus with extra grave pacts I would get one whenever a creature of mine died. Well what do you think, does this list look better?
I went with Altar's Reap

Have you considered SkullClamp?

I really love Lord Of Extinction after playing with him, he is an absolute beast

This card suffers from two flaws in my book:
1) No Evasion
2) He is incredibly obvious target. By which I mean, while I may loose to him once, I am always going to ensure I have removal available if he hits the table again.
If you are committed to running it I would up it to a 4 of (since it isn't Legendary) and run a playset of Vines Of Vastwood to protect it.

An alternative to Lord Of Extinction exists in Golgari Grave-Troll. To run the Troll I would run:

- 4 Swamp
+ 4 Dakmor Salvage

- 1 The Rack
- 1 Infest
- 1 Grimoire Of The Dead
- 2 Lord Of Extinction
- 3 Grave Pact
+ 4 DarkBlast
+ 4 Golgari Grave-Troll

I haven't really heard a lot about Grave Pact, is this a viable strategy or does it just look good on paper?

Assuming your games aren't of a comparable length to EDH duels...it only looks good on paper. Because:
1) It costs too much.
2) It has no immediate impact on the game.
3) It only functions well if your opponent is playing a creature heavy deck.
4) It features a mana cost of :B::B::B: , which is complicated.

1x Infest  for now

I would be running either more draw or more Sweepers, or none at all.

not sure what other lands I could use that would be good in this deck. Suggestions?

Dropping :G: tidies up your mana base and gives you access to Cabal Coffers and/or Crypt Of Agadeem. It also gives you access to Mutilate as a sweeper.
Have you considered Svogthos, The Restless Tomb?

Do you also think that it would be okay to go to 22 lands to make room for one more card?

As it stands now, I wouldn't. Possibly, if you add something like Viridian Emissary.

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Mortuary is always nice with Grave Pact.

Bottomless Pit could had some flavor to the discard.
My decks, mostly casuals, but some I use online with some small changes: http://www.mtgvault.com/Profile.aspx?UserID=91484
@Azazelwandering

No I haven't even though about skullclamp  and I know that I have at least a playset from Darksteel. Don't you think that it may be frowned upon? It would work great in my deck with all the one toughness critters but I may be worried about what others may think. If it would be okay with the play group that I am trying to get with, then hell yeah!

I see what you mean about lord of extinction  and having no evasion or trample but then it would probably be broken as hell! Another strategy that I thought of today was to use Garruk Relentless,  because he could produce tokens that could help against aggro and give other critters to sac plus on his flip side....Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, I can search for creatures and have access to an overrun effect that gets bigger with creatures in my GY. Also to be honest with you, I have never played with dredge and am unfamiliar with its strategy, so I wouldn't know how to build a viable deck around it.

I know what you mean about grave pact, still haven't got a good chance to use it yet, but it does seem that most people use creatures as a form of winning for their deck. I have sideboarded a playset of mind slash  to swap with for when they don't, that way I can still use my sac effects, just for a different result to give me some control and still have my creatures for my wincon, plus a sideboard of specters  to replace the fleshbag marauders. As I said, still haven't got to test grave pact,  though I am planning for a backup just in case it doesn't work as planned! I just hope that it isn't too slow, and I have enough resources until it comes online.

I tried infest  today and didn't like it. So I replaced it with consume the meek, yeah I know its 5 mana but it sure helps against the weenie decks. I can clear the board and then swing unblocked with my mortivore  or lord of extinction, GG Cool. I know this wouldn't be good against every deck but it fits the bill for now!

Wow, I didn't even know about Svogthos, the restless tomb, sure seems a good inclusion to swing with an empty board! Thanks, too bad it is not all graveyards! I have done some more researching today for lands and found that the new set has grim backwoods  which seems good to use for draw on opponents turn, although it is mana intensive. Also found Miren, the moaning well  to help with a little life gain, plus both of these lands provide another sac outlet.

Thanks for the help! I thank that I am slowly getting it together and when it is final I will post a new thread. But for now I would gladly continue to take suggestions and thoughts as a whole on the strategy.
Mortuary is always nice with Grave Pact.

Bottomless Pit could had some flavor to the discard.

bottomless pit  seems more hurtful to me than helpful as I would need cards to discard for the grimoire of the dead  if it was out. With mortuary, I think that I would need a way to draw the cards so it wouldn't slow my progress down too much, though I see where could be helpful!

Don't you think that it may be frowned upon?

Possibly. OK it with your group first and only ever run 2 or less.

Another strategy that I thought of today was to use Garruk Relentless

I wouldn't run him without SpellsKite or Hex Parasite on board as well.
You could potentially consider Perilous Myr as a means of decreasing those counters in your own time (it functions well alongside SkullClamp too).

I know what you mean about grave pact, still haven't got a good chance to use it yet, but it does seem that most people use creatures as a form of winning for their deck

That is understandable. My playgroup used to be the same way.


Assuming your mana base of:

4 Woodland CemetEry
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
12 Swamp

Hasn't changed, I'd maybe do some testing with:

2 Svogthos, The Restless Tomb
4 Grim BackWoods
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
5 Swamp

Incidentally, you have an increasingly Non-Basic land base, which means it might be worth looking at an alternative for Woodland Cemetery.

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Well Reprocess + Grave Pact + Mortuary + Howling Mine or anything that makes you draw a bit .

My decks, mostly casuals, but some I use online with some small changes: http://www.mtgvault.com/Profile.aspx?UserID=91484
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