03/21/2012 StF: "The Guardian, the Witch, and the Angel"

20 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's Savor the Flavor, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I so knew when the previews were going to start. Now I have one more reason to look forward to the 9th. Can't wait to see the conclusion to this great story. 
I wonder if the Helvault event will truly matter, unlike the New Phyrexia/Mirrodin Pure trick last year.

In any case, I look forward to Avacyn's return to Innistrad.
I have a feeling that this block in particular would have made a great movie or trilogy of movies. The stories behind the sets just keep getting better every year.
I think Thalia will become a planeswalker in Avacyn Restored. And I feel either Garruk or Liliana will die, possibly Garruk..

Either way, I like how this story is developing.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
They can't kill Garruk. He's our only green 'Walker besides Nissa Revane, and she's too narrow to put in a Core Set. Plus they wouldn't introduce a new 'walker in the core set because no backstory. Admittedly, they could do a Revane remake, but I'm betting on Garruk surviving to be reprinted another day.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
My guess is that, since black mages are so terrible at dealing with artifacts (I think there's exactly one mono-black card that says "destroy target artifact"), Garruk will be the one to destroy the Helvault. On accident, of course. When Liliana is trying to destroy the Helvault, Garruk will find her and try to kill her (Bramblecrush? He's even saying the flavor text). He'll miss due to his curse and smash the Helvault instead. Just a guess, of course, but it makes sense considering how they're making a big deal out of Garruk's relentlessness.
My guess is that, since black mages are so terrible at dealing with artifacts (I think there's exactly one mono-black card that says "destroy target artifact"), Garruk will be the one to destroy the Helvault. On accident, of course. When Liliana is trying to destroy the Helvault, Garruk will find her and try to kill her (Bramblecrush? He's even saying the flavor text). He'll miss due to his curse and smash the Helvault instead. Just a guess, of course, but it makes sense considering how they're making a big deal out of Garruk's relentlessness.


In the promo video in today's arcana, Liliana somehow tricks/coerces Thalia into breaking open the vault. I don't blame you for having that theory, though, it's a pretty plausible assumption to make. I think a lot of people expected Garruk to be involved in the breaking of the Helvault. I suppose he still could be, since we don't know all the details.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

They can't kill Garruk. He's our only green 'Walker besides Nissa Revane, and she's too narrow to put in a Core Set. Plus they wouldn't introduce a new 'walker in the core set because no backstory. Admittedly, they could do a Revane remake, but I'm betting on Garruk surviving to be reprinted another day.

It's possible they introduce a new mono-green Planeswalker in Avacyn Restored, kill off Garruk, and replace him in the core set with the new 'walker. I hope not, though. If they're going to kill off a Planeswalker, please let it be Jace.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
... So... i guess this means that there will absolutely not be a book then... I was really hoping for a book of this... it's kinda disapointing considering how much flavor was in this set... then again afer hearing the opinions about QfK and ToM it may be for the best... I think wizards is just to cheap to hire writers that are actually good...
Guys,

If demons can't be killed, how come Liliana is out hunting them? Doesn't she know better? And how has she already killed one (Kothophed)? Am I missing something?

Somebody please respond. Thanks. 
Guys,

If demons can't be killed, how come Liliana is out hunting them? Doesn't she know better? And how has she already killed one (Kothophed)? Am I missing something?

Somebody please respond. Thanks. 


Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.


Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.



That's not it. This is a quote from the planeswalker's guide to Innistrad:


The Silver Collar


At first Avacyn ignored this new threat, but as the demons amassed power, she knew she would have to destroy them. One by one she would engage them in battle and defeat them. But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter. It soon became apparent that the demons could be killed but would return in a different form, since they were beings created of pure mana. Realizing this, Avacyn decreed that "What cannot be destroyed will be bound," and thus her symbol became a silver collar, which was to be symbolically forged shut around the necks of all demonkind.



See? It says here that "demons could not be killed." So this is what I was asking about before. As before, please respond. Thanks.

Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.



That's not it. This is a quote from the planeswalker's guide to Innistrad:


The Silver Collar


At first Avacyn ignored this new threat, but as the demons amassed power, she knew she would have to destroy them. One by one she would engage them in battle and defeat them. But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter. It soon became apparent that the demons could be killed but would return in a different form, since they were beings created of pure mana. Realizing this, Avacyn decreed that "What cannot be destroyed will be bound," and thus her symbol became a silver collar, which was to be symbolically forged shut around the necks of all demonkind.



See? It says here that "demons could not be killed." So this is what I was asking about before. As before, please respond. Thanks.

I believe the key is the sentence "But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter."
The reason Avacyn binds demons is because she cares about there being one less demon free in the world. Liliana only cares about killing a specific demon, Griselbrand. She doesn't care if the mana that created Griselbrand then reforms into a new demon, because that new demon didn't sign the contract with her, Griselbrand did.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
So basically, all the demons are like commanders (in the commander format) and Avacyn realized it was better to Arrest them than to actually destroy them. (Sadly, the actual Helvault card doesn't work very well for this analogy.) 

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

Geralf and Gisa, that sibling team of zombie masters, unleashed their life's greatest achievement: a vast horde of necromantic ghouls and necro-alchemical skaabs. They besieged the city of Thraben with their ghoulish army, each hoping to outdo the other in their mad sibling rivalry, sending waves of unhallowed creatures at the holy city.



I still loathe this part of the story. It's just silly. It's not scary and takes me completely out of the horror immersion.
I believe the key is the sentence "But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter."
The reason Avacyn binds demons is because she cares about there being one less demon free in the world. Liliana only cares about killing a specific demon, Griselbrand. She doesn't care if the mana that created Griselbrand then reforms into a new demon, because that new demon didn't sign the contract with her, Griselbrand did.



Exactly this. Avacyn realised she couldn't rid Innistrad of demons altogether - she could kill individual ones, but new ones just appeared in their place. All Liliana is interested in is killing Griselbrand. If the black mana that he's made by reforms into a different demon, what does she care?
I really have to put my money on Thalia opening the Helvault.  They even eluded to it in the article.  When they talked of her "possibly" being able to open it, but chosing to keep it in tact "for now" that's immediately what I thought about.  I definitely think that she is going to realize that she can't fix/defeat/whatever all the chaos that's going on, she will do the only thing she feels she can, and release the contents of the Helvault.  What other option does she really have?  She's got one walker who wants in (Liliana), another who wants to kill the aforementioned (Garruk), and yet another who just wants to figure out what's going on with this whole mess (Sorin).  Honestly what other choice does she have?  I say drastic times lead to drastic measures.  Even if Liliana some how convinces her to do it, I'm betting it will be Thalia.

This whole story has been pretty amazing.  I can't WAIT for the previews to start coming out.  Love every last line of this whole block's flavor.  Huge Kudo's for making me love the story line of magic again for the first time in MANY years.

Casual player - Occasional FNM's - Prerelease/Release Events as often as I can.

U/W control is my deck of choice, but I'll play anything fun in Legacy.

I really have to put my money on Thalia opening the Helvault.  They even eluded to it in the article.  When they talked of her "possibly" being able to open it, but chosing to keep it in tact "for now" that's immediately what I thought about.  I definitely think that she is going to realize that she can't fix/defeat/whatever all the chaos that's going on, she will do the only thing she feels she can, and release the contents of the Helvault.  What other option does she really have?  She's got one walker who wants in (Liliana), another who wants to kill the aforementioned (Garruk), and yet another who just wants to figure out what's going on with this whole mess (Sorin).  Honestly what other choice does she have?  I say drastic times lead to drastic measures.  Even if Liliana some how convinces her to do it, I'm betting it will be Thalia.

This whole story has been pretty amazing.  I can't WAIT for the previews to start coming out.  Love every last line of this whole block's flavor.  Huge Kudo's for making me love the story line of magic again for the first time in MANY years.


The promo video pretty much confirms your prediction, though it still leaves a lot of details unclear.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

Wait a sec, and where the hell is Sorin in all the story? what did he do? I was expecting a lot from him!
Sign In to post comments